I hope Zelda Wii wont be too... casual

As you already probably know, Nintendo has been making all of their games for accessible for the casual crowd. The last two Zeldas (TP and PH) have been... well pretty easy for the most part. It has been suggested since TP was demoed: difficulty settings.

For a game to be satisfying for everyone, it has to be challenging but not too challenging, it should be somewhere a bit before hard.

easy---------------normal------satisfying---hard.

So since the games are only becoming more casual, shouldn't Nintendo have a harder difficulty setting for Zelda for the hardcore crowd? I'm really looking forward to the next Zelda, but I want challenging puzzles and enemies that are actually hard to face...

Who agrees with me?

Every single Zelda game is easy, it's one of the easiest franchises around

The hard part comes by figuring out which bush to set fire on where to stand and do such and such

The gameplay has always been ""sleep and still win the fight" easy

I expect more of the same

The Zelda games are never particularly hard to begin with.

I dont see this as being a problem.

I think Phantom Hourglass is a great example of where the Zelda series should go.. The game became much more accessible for the more casual market with it's new control, but at the same time it didn't lose any of its hardcore appeal. Hell I found Phantom Hourglass to be more difficult then the last two console Zelda games (Twilight Princess and Wind Waker). Nintendo doesn't want to make their franchises more casual, they want to make them more accessible, and I don't have a problem with accessibility.

The puzzles are alright, the bosses are easy and not that epic

This could be the one that's different...could.

Nintendo has been following its "gateway" theory for a while, and they want to make sure that people that develop into "hardcore" will have a game to keep them here and not go to the other systems. This is a stretch, I know. But it might be so. Since the Zelda game will most likely be released next yearish, it would be a perfect opportunity for a coming-of-age for "casual" players.

I know it's a stretch. Either way, it'll be awesome.

Eh, I like it a little less than normal.

anyways, I don't think there will be another Wii Zelda game, at least not for a while (maybe a 3-D Four Swords game, or a MM remake, but nothing like TP).

Every single Zelda game is easy, it's one of the easiest franchises around

The hard part comes by figuring out which bush to set fire on where to stand and do such and such

The gameplay has always been ""sleep and still win the fight" easy

I expect more of the same

Jaysonguy

Zelda isnt that easy! You have to figure out where to go, fight enemies, and solve puzzles.

Every single Zelda game is easy, it's one of the easiest franchises around

The hard part comes by figuring out which bush to set fire on where to stand and do such and such

The gameplay has always been ""sleep and still win the fight" easy

I expect more of the same

Jaysonguy

You can say that for the 3D Zeldas, but the 2D Zeldas were hard in both the combat area and the puzzle area. Zelda II anyone?

Anyway, the easiest way to make it accessible to those who don't play games that much (don't like to use the word casual anymore ever since I read that Birdman article) as well as to those who do play games a lot, is to do something like OoT and OoT: Master Quest by making the dungeons much more difficult. Or just take out the Water Dungeon for Normal mode and put it back in for Hard. :D

I thought this would be an actual complaint of casualization, but it seems people confuse casual with easy. :|

Games have been getting easier for years, because history has shown most people don't like masochistically hard games like Kid Icarus (except maybe me :P) and Zelda games have never been particularly hard in the first place.

What I'm hoping is that they don't lose the depth of the game. I like Phantom Hourglass, but it really removed a lot of the depth from what made Zelda games an attraction for me.

That's not to say I wouldn't like to see a difficulty increase, especially difficulty settings, because I would. I would just rather have an innovative Zelda that use the Wii to expand on the experience and not streamline it for the expanded audience, because Zelda really doesn't need to be casualized.

The Zelda games are never particularly hard to begin with.

I dont see this as being a problem.

Haziqonfire

Every single Zelda game is easy, it's one of the easiest franchises around

The hard part comes by figuring out which bush to set fire on where to stand and do such and such

The gameplay has always been ""sleep and still win the fight" easy

I expect more of the same

Jaysonguy

The battles have never been so hard, but the puzzles are what gives the game some challenge. Even though, Zelda TP was easy compared to past Zeldas.

Zelda isn't easy!!! REMEMBER THE WATER TEMPLE WHEN YOUR AN ADULT IN OCARINA OF TIME!!!! that was hard!!!!!TheAcejoel99

That was also ten years ago.

How about something from the past few games?

Zelda isn't easy!!! REMEMBER THE WATER TEMPLE WHEN YOUR AN ADULT IN OCARINA OF TIME!!!! that was hard!!!!!TheAcejoel99

Umm I thought that Temple was actualy really easy even the Master Quest edition. Its main puzzle is controlling the water inside which isn't that hard. If you want a hard temple play the great bay temple from Majoras mask. THAT level was hard.

[QUOTE="TheAcejoel99"]Zelda isn't easy!!! REMEMBER THE WATER TEMPLE WHEN YOUR AN ADULT IN OCARINA OF TIME!!!! that was hard!!!!!DJSAV_101

Umm I thought that Temple was actualy really easy even the Master Quest edition. Its main puzzle is controlling the water inside which isn't that hard. If you want a hard temple play the great bay temple from Majoras mask. THAT level was hard.

that giant fish boss in great bay temple was by far the hardest time i ever had with a Zelda game.

People are yelling they want the game more difficult, that is until they get another Kid Icarus on there hands. Simply put Zelda like all other games just arent difficult, those days of really hard games are over. While you may get a few Ninja Gaiden like games here and there, for the most part you can expect a pretty simple playthrough. Games are more about entertainment then challenge now, its pretty much excepted that as a major media device, people are paying to be entertained not to be challenged and turn a 20 hour game into a 60 nightmare. While I know some of you are saying "oh I would love all games to be like that" and so on, as games become more mainstream, meaning not just for the kids and teens who only responsibility in life is school and then there free to do whatever.

Games are being sold to those who barely have time to finish the 20 hour game in 20 hours, let alone to devote 60 hours because its so difficult. All that would lead to is fustration and abandonment by the audience that is so important to keeping the game industry aloft. Its simple buisness as the cost of games rise, the hardcore I'll play a game for months until I beat it crowd isnt enough, they need more customers to cover the cost of development. So they cant alienate them with overly difficult games, I mean look at the new Ninja Gaiden, they devs have basically said that the game is much easier now that it can be more accessible, the same for the upcoming SFIV a game that was notorious for weeding out the non gamers is being made more accessible. So its not just Zelda, its gaming in general so you might as well start accepting it for what it is, because this is the direction in which we are heading.

TP was just slightly too easy. Ive played, owned and beaten every zelda game, and ive found that the oracle games were almost prefect difficulty. i just didnt like the weird map changes and stuff, depending on what ride you got, but that really has nothing to do with the topic >.>

[QUOTE="TheAcejoel99"]Zelda isn't easy!!! REMEMBER THE WATER TEMPLE WHEN YOUR AN ADULT IN OCARINA OF TIME!!!! that was hard!!!!!bob_newman

That was also ten years ago.

How about something from the past few games?

Wind Waker, I was stuck for a good while figuring out I needed to shoot cyclos or whatever with arrows. And then you HAVE to do that so you can get the warp power to get to motherchild isle to get the ice arrows and flame arrows.

The Zelda games are never particularly hard to begin with.

I dont see this as being a problem.

Haziqonfire

The problem is, they make the enemies so epic, all the bosses are so epic in the series... then you kill then so freakin easy... like wtf ! it steals away from the epicness

[QUOTE="Haziqonfire"]

The Zelda games are never particularly hard to begin with.

I dont see this as being a problem.

Virus214

The problem is, they make the enemies so epic, all the bosses are so epic in the series... then you kill then so freakin easy... like wtf ! it steals away from the epicness

Definently, I really don't mind Zelda's difficulty, but the bosses are pathetically easy. Bosses are meant to be the ultimate challenge of a dungeon, and while the boss designs are fantastic, they're just too easy. I want atleast a little more challenge when it comes to that.

The reason WW and TP were so easy is because they threw hearts at you every time you beat an enemy. I remember the old days when you were worried to enter a boss room or even the next room in a dungeon because you were low on hearts. All they have to do is cut the hearts out as you get farther into the game.

TP, was by far the easiest game in the series especially after you unlocked the fairy fountains, and were able to warp instantly. Then they throw in the Ooccu (or whatever) and let you start in the same spot you left the dungeon in. BS!!!!

I don't care if you have been playing games for years, or pick up a controller the first time. Games are supposed to get progressively harder as you come towards completion. Anything else just ruins the game imo.

[QUOTE="Virus214"][QUOTE="Haziqonfire"]

The Zelda games are never particularly hard to begin with.

I dont see this as being a problem.

Picklechugger

The problem is, they make the enemies so epic, all the bosses are so epic in the series... then you kill then so freakin easy... like wtf ! it steals away from the epicness

Definently, I really don't mind Zelda's difficulty, but the bosses are pathetically easy. Bosses are meant to be the ultimate challenge of a dungeon, and while the boss designs are fantastic, they're just too easy. I want atleast a little more challenge when it comes to that.

If Nintendo doesn't want to make zeldas harder atleast make them longer or with more side-quests

[QUOTE="bob_newman"]

[QUOTE="TheAcejoel99"]Zelda isn't easy!!! REMEMBER THE WATER TEMPLE WHEN YOUR AN ADULT IN OCARINA OF TIME!!!! that was hard!!!!!Cicatraz_ESP

That was also ten years ago.

How about something from the past few games?

Wind Waker, I was stuck for a good while figuring out I needed to shoot cyclos or whatever with arrows. And then you HAVE to do that so you can get the warp power to get to motherchild isle to get the ice arrows and flame arrows.

Ok, that's not "hard", it was just something you needed to figure out on your own. It presented the player with no challenge, and it required no skill.

[QUOTE="Haziqonfire"]

The Zelda games are never particularly hard to begin with.

I dont see this as being a problem.

Virus214

The problem is, they make the enemies so epic, all the bosses are so epic in the series... then you kill then so freakin easy... like wtf ! it steals away from the epicness

i agree, but i had tons of fun fighting ganon in WW, and the dragon in TP. they were both easy, but epic in a fun way. like the dragon, he only took a few hits, but getting on his back and riding him down to the platform was a really fun, and epic at the same time

[QUOTE="Cicatraz_ESP"][QUOTE="bob_newman"]

[QUOTE="TheAcejoel99"]Zelda isn't easy!!! REMEMBER THE WATER TEMPLE WHEN YOUR AN ADULT IN OCARINA OF TIME!!!! that was hard!!!!!bob_newman

That was also ten years ago.

How about something from the past few games?

Wind Waker, I was stuck for a good while figuring out I needed to shoot cyclos or whatever with arrows. And then you HAVE to do that so you can get the warp power to get to motherchild isle to get the ice arrows and flame arrows.

Ok, that's not "hard", it was just something you needed to figure out on your own. It presented the player with no challenge, and it required no skill.

I disagree, that is a challenge the game poses. Puzzles and stuff like that are things you need to figure out in the game.

[QUOTE="bob_newman"][QUOTE="Cicatraz_ESP"][QUOTE="bob_newman"]

[QUOTE="TheAcejoel99"]Zelda isn't easy!!! REMEMBER THE WATER TEMPLE WHEN YOUR AN ADULT IN OCARINA OF TIME!!!! that was hard!!!!!Picklechugger

That was also ten years ago.

How about something from the past few games?

Wind Waker, I was stuck for a good while figuring out I needed to shoot cyclos or whatever with arrows. And then you HAVE to do that so you can get the warp power to get to motherchild isle to get the ice arrows and flame arrows.

Ok, that's not "hard", it was just something you needed to figure out on your own. It presented the player with no challenge, and it required no skill.

I disagree, that is a challenge the game poses. Puzzles and stuff like that are things you need to figure out in the game.

It's a different kind of "challenge". The Water Temple kicked your ass, but you sort of had an idea as to what you're supposed to be doing. The "puzzle" in WW that he mentioned is just a "try things until something happens" kind of challenge.

Personally, I wouldn't call that much of a challenge. It's really just more of a frustration. There's really no skill involved, it's more of a guessing game.

This could be the one that's different...could.

Nintendo has been following its "gateway" theory for a while, and they want to make sure that people that develop into "hardcore" will have a game to keep them here and not go to the other systems. This is a stretch, I know. But it might be so. Since the Zelda game will most likely be released next yearish, it would be a perfect opportunity for a coming-of-age for "casual" players.

I know it's a stretch. Either way, it'll be awesome.

Arkthemaniac

Overall Nintendo's games have been becoming slightly easier. What I really hate is a short and easy game. I hope the next Zelda is long and gets harder as you advance in the game.

Zelda games have gotten easier yes, but what franchise HAS NOT gotten softer, a lot of them have gone easier so it wont scare newcomers to the series. The only two series that I can think of who hasnt gone "soft" yet will be the Ninka Gaiden and the Contra series.ImSwordMan

Read the interviews about Ninja Gaiden, the devs have been saying without actually outright saying that the game wont be as difficult as the first one. Contra's difficulty lies in the first playthrough, after memorizing the game its pretty easy from that point on.

[QUOTE="Picklechugger"]

I disagree, that is a challenge the game poses. Puzzles and stuff like that are things you need to figure out in the game.

bob_newman

It's a different kind of "challenge". The Water Temple kicked your ass, but you sort of had an idea as to what you're supposed to be doing. The "puzzle" in WW that he mentioned is just a "try things until something happens" kind of challenge.

Personally, I wouldn't call that much of a challenge. It's really just more of a frustration. There's really no skill involved, it's more of a guessing game.

I know what you're saying, but I still wouldn't write it off as something that requires no skill. It is still problem solving, and when it comes down to it, that's what video games are. Zelda actually gives you an environment to apply new found skills, so I still call this kind of thing atleast somewhat of a challenge, and that's what newer Zelda games are about.

I thought TP was a bit too easy but it was still a good game

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

Every single Zelda game is easy, it's one of the easiest franchises around

The hard part comes by figuring out which bush to set fire on where to stand and do such and such

The gameplay has always been ""sleep and still win the fight" easy

I expect more of the same

Wiifanboy_4life

You can say that for the 3D Zeldas, but the 2D Zeldas were hard in both the combat area and the puzzle area. Zelda II anyone?

Anyway, the easiest way to make it accessible to those who don't play games that much (don't like to use the word casual anymore ever since I read that Birdman article) as well as to those who do play games a lot, is to do something like OoT and OoT: Master Quest by making the dungeons much more difficult. Or just take out the Water Dungeon for Normal mode and put it back in for Hard. :D

On topic: I wouldn't mind if the next Zelda is easier because of improved gameplay mechanics as long as it isn't intentionally "dumbed down".