Kojima Productions has the 2nd analog stick add-on

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ChubbyGuy40

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#1 ChubbyGuy40
Member since 2007 • 26442 Posts

Sauce here

They raise a good question. Could this be a reason why MGS3 was delayed? I'll buy that thing if I have to, just to avoid using the awful face buttons for aiming. It was so horrible in Peace Walker, it'll be horrible here.

But even Kojima Productions doubts who is going to use this thing. As long as it provides a better grip, I'm in.

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Sepewrath

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#2 Sepewrath
Member since 2005 • 30712 Posts
You would probably use the touch screen to aim, not the face buttons. And I doubt it was delayed for a peripheral.
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Raiko101

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#3 Raiko101
Member since 2005 • 3339 Posts
Why doubt? It might well be worth implementing a control set up for it. It'll cater towards their audience.
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istuffedsunny

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#4 istuffedsunny
Member since 2008 • 6991 Posts
Are we really talking about a remake of a rerelease of a game that released less than 10 years ago? I couldn't care less what they do in this version of MGS3, but I do agree the controls for every portable MGS have sucked. A second stick would fix that. I'd be more interested though if it was an original game and on a more powerful handheld ;)
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haziqonfire

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#5 haziqonfire
Member since 2005 • 36392 Posts

So begins the downward spiral?

I mean adding this second analog stick so far has just shown us that it's being done so developers can be lazy and port over things they've already created, instead of giving us something new and interesting with the hardware we have.

le sigh.

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Raiko101

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#6 Raiko101
Member since 2005 • 3339 Posts

So begins the downward spiral?

I mean adding this second analog stick so far has just shown us that it's being done so developers can be lazy and port over things they've already created, instead of giving us something new and interesting with the hardware we have.

le sigh.

Haziqonfire
Whilst I agree with what you're saying, if a company sees a new control method as a way around creativity, the chances are they wouldn't have done anything special otherwise. I suspect there will be a number of developers who will come up with some interesting concepts without having to use this accessory.
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JollyGreenOne

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#7 JollyGreenOne
Member since 2011 • 1001 Posts

I wonder if this has something to do with the Zone.Of.Enders 3DS game Kojima was teasing on his twitter account recently?

I guess we'll find out in a few short days, and I can't wait! *Runs off to listen to the Z.O.E theme song*

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Kenny789

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#8 Kenny789
Member since 2006 • 10434 Posts
Oh no....
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El_Zo1212o

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#9 El_Zo1212o
Member since 2009 • 6057 Posts

So begins the downward spiral?

I mean adding this second analog stick so far has just shown us that it's being done so developers can be lazy and port over things they've already created, instead of giving us something new and interesting with the hardware we have.

le sigh.

Haziqonfire
I dunno what's up with you lately- you're criticizing a peripheral that hasn't been released for the damage it hasn't yet caused related to a game that was announced nearly a year before the system was even launched in the first place. Console ports are a good thing. Saying otherwise is like saying that multiplat games are bad because it reduces the creativity put into console exclusives.
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KBFloYd

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#10 KBFloYd
Member since 2009 • 22714 Posts

id get mgs3d with or without DA support so im good...

MGS1 doesnt use DA and its a greaqt game :)

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El_Zo1212o

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#11 El_Zo1212o
Member since 2009 • 6057 Posts

id get mgs3d with or without DA support so im good...

MGS1 doesnt use DA and its a greaqt game :)

KBFloYd
I used to take it for granted that camera control would always be mapped to the touchscreen, but after playing Splinter Cell 3D, (and having played MGS PW, and Syphon Fliter on my PSP) I hate the idea that camera movement could ever be mapped to the face buttons again. That's a big part of why I like the peripheral. And Metal Gear: Solid was viewed mainly from a top-down viewpoint. Because of that, a second stick wasn't necessary. You'll remember, too, that MGS was one of the last games to come out before the widespread adoption of twin stick movement.
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KBFloYd

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#12 KBFloYd
Member since 2009 • 22714 Posts

Metal Gear: Solid was viewed mainly from a top-down viewpoint.El_Zo1212o

its not top down... more like sideways :P

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El_Zo1212o

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#13 El_Zo1212o
Member since 2009 • 6057 Posts

[QUOTE="El_Zo1212o"]Metal Gear: Solid was viewed mainly from a top-down viewpoint.KBFloYd

its not top down... more like sideways :P

If you want to split hairs, it's an Isometric Viewpoint.
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Sepewrath

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#14 Sepewrath
Member since 2005 • 30712 Posts
[QUOTE="El_Zo1212o"] I dunno what's up with you lately- you're criticizing a peripheral that hasn't been released for the damage it hasn't yet caused related to a game that was announced nearly a year before the system was even launched in the first place. Console ports are a good thing. Saying otherwise is like saying that multiplat games are bad because it reduces the creativity put into console exclusives.

Well he's right, console ports are not a good thing, why play console games on a tiny screen? That is where the PSP failed. And I think we have seen enough on the Wii to see that developers would by far, rather just stick to the status quo of dual analog. So if there was a reliance on this addition, it would come as a detriment to the other functions of the system. However I don't think that is the case with this game, no one is going to halt development to wait for a peripheral. I think its more likely that they delayed it to avoid Mario Kart and Mario, to let the audience grow more through the holidays or a combination of the two.
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Phoenix534

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#15 Phoenix534
Member since 2008 • 17774 Posts

Oh no....Kenny789

My thoughts exactly.

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El_Zo1212o

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#16 El_Zo1212o
Member since 2009 • 6057 Posts
[QUOTE="Sepewrath"][QUOTE="El_Zo1212o"] I dunno what's up with you lately- you're criticizing a peripheral that hasn't been released for the damage it hasn't yet caused related to a game that was announced nearly a year before the system was even launched in the first place. Console ports are a good thing. Saying otherwise is like saying that multiplat games are bad because it reduces the creativity put into console exclusives.

Well he's right, console ports are not a good thing, why play console games on a tiny screen? That is where the PSP failed. And I think we have seen enough on the Wii to see that developers would by far, rather just stick to the status quo of dual analog. So if there was a reliance on this addition, it would come as a detriment to the other functions of the system. However I don't think that is the case with this game, no one is going to halt development to wait for a peripheral. I think its more likely that they delayed it to avoid Mario Kart and Mario, to let the audience grow more through the holidays or a combination of the two.

"Why play console games on a tiny screen?" General audience answer: because that tiny screen can go anywhere with you. My personal answer: because it's cool. Nintendo also seems to think it's cool, so count on more console ports from them regardless of whether or not the 2nd Cpad catches on. And the problem with PSP wasn't trying to fit a console experience onto a handheld, it was going toe-to-toe with Nintendo on their home turf at the outset of what would end up being their most sellingest time ever. (That's right, it was so epic a time for Big N's coffers that I had to cobble together a whole word just to describe it.) Especially since Nintendo had been courting the image as the reasonably price console maker and Sony was swinging their pricetags around like a fat chick's goodies on the Jerry Springer show- just letting it all hang out. You're not being fair to the devs. Think about your favorite DS games that used a form of two stick movement. Do you think any of them wouldn't have been made if the ds had a second Dpad? (If you've got any,)Look at your favorite 3ds games- would any of them benefit from camera control? Samurai Warriors would. So would Splinter Cell 3d cries for lack of one. And one last thing: tell me you wouldn't like to have Batman: Arkham Challenges or some such on your 3DS- like RE: Mercs, but with Combat and Predator challenges from both games and a couple of playable characters. Just because it has the same control possibilities doesn't mean it would be able to hand something as complex and involved as Batman: AA/AC with the voice acting and etc, but they could pare it down to the basic challenge modes. (Sorry if this post has been a little everywhere, it's late.)
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#17 nintendoboy16
Member since 2007 • 42231 Posts

Sauce here

They raise a good question. Could this be a reason why MGS3 was delayed? I'll buy that thing if I have to, just to avoid using the awful face buttons for aiming. It was so horrible in Peace Walker, it'll be horrible here.

But even Kojima Productions doubts who is going to use this thing. As long as it provides a better grip, I'm in.

ChubbyGuy40

If Kojima Productions is worried on how many people would use it. They should bundle the second stick with their game, like how Capcom and Activision bundled the CC Pro in Monster Hunter Tri and Goldeneye Wii.

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haziqonfire

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#18 haziqonfire
Member since 2005 • 36392 Posts

"Why play console games on a tiny screen?" General audience answer: because that tiny screen can go anywhere with you. My personal answer: because it's cool. Nintendo also seems to think it's cool, so count on more console ports from them regardless of whether or not the 2nd Cpad catches on. And the problem with PSP wasn't trying to fit a console experience onto a handheld, it was going toe-to-toe with Nintendo on their home turf at the outset of what would end up being their most sellingest time ever. (That's right, it was so epic a time for Big N's coffers that I had to cobble together a whole word just to describe it.) Especially since Nintendo had been courting the image as the reasonably price console maker and Sony was swinging their pricetags around like a fat chick's goodies on the Jerry Springer show- just letting it all hang out. You're not being fair to the devs. Think about your favorite DS games that used a form of two stick movement. Do you think any of them wouldn't have been made if the ds had a second Dpad? (If you've got any,)Look at your favorite 3ds games- would any of them benefit from camera control? Samurai Warriors would. So would Splinter Cell 3d cries for lack of one. And one last thing: tell me you wouldn't like to have Batman: Arkham Challenges or some such on your 3DS- like RE: Mercs, but with Combat and Predator challenges from both games and a couple of playable characters. Just because it has the same control possibilities doesn't mean it would be able to hand something as complex and involved as Batman: AA/AC with the voice acting and etc, but they could pare it down to the basic challenge modes. (Sorry if this post has been a little everywhere, it's late.)El_Zo1212o

Thing is, the 3DS is a handheld. It's meant for handheld games that utilize that platforms strengths. Adding another analog stick just makes it more of a console on the go. If I wanted that I'd play those games on a console, I'd rather play on a big screen TV with surround sound with a proper controller.

Nintendo doesn't really seem to care about ports, they just want more content that'll sell their platform. In terms of their own games I don't think a lot will resort to using a second analog stick.

In terms of the games you mentioned, I wouldn't have bought any of those in the first place. I'd rather see developers try to do something unique on the platform. Look at TWEWY and how well it played on the DS and how that experience would be totally different elsewhere. Look at Rhythm Heaven on the DS and how unique that was. Look at how well the two Zelda games played using the DS' touch screen and touch elements. Look at how great Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story was with it's touch features. That's the kind of stuff I want to see come to the 3DS. I don't want stuff that is a gimped down version of a console experience. There are only SOME cases where a game can turn out well but it still feels gimped -- SSFIV3D. Then there are other cases where the developer adds some unique additions to the game that enhance it -- OoT3D with it's gyro controls for camera controls and aiming.

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El_Zo1212o

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#19 El_Zo1212o
Member since 2009 • 6057 Posts

[QUOTE="El_Zo1212o"] "Why play console games on a tiny screen?" General audience answer: because that tiny screen can go anywhere with you. My personal answer: because it's cool. Nintendo also seems to think it's cool, so count on more console ports from them regardless of whether or not the 2nd Cpad catches on. And the problem with PSP wasn't trying to fit a console experience onto a handheld, it was going toe-to-toe with Nintendo on their home turf at the outset of what would end up being their most sellingest time ever. (That's right, it was so epic a time for Big N's coffers that I had to cobble together a whole word just to describe it.) Especially since Nintendo had been courting the image as the reasonably price console maker and Sony was swinging their pricetags around like a fat chick's goodies on the Jerry Springer show- just letting it all hang out. You're not being fair to the devs. Think about your favorite DS games that used a form of two stick movement. Do you think any of them wouldn't have been made if the ds had a second Dpad? (If you've got any,)Look at your favorite 3ds games- would any of them benefit from camera control? Samurai Warriors would. So would Splinter Cell 3d cries for lack of one. And one last thing: tell me you wouldn't like to have Batman: Arkham Challenges or some such on your 3DS- like RE: Mercs, but with Combat and Predator challenges from both games and a couple of playable characters. Just because it has the same control possibilities doesn't mean it would be able to hand something as complex and involved as Batman: AA/AC with the voice acting and etc, but they could pare it down to the basic challenge modes. (Sorry if this post has been a little everywhere, it's late.)Haziqonfire

Thing is, the 3DS is a handheld. It's meant for handheld games that utilize that platforms strengths. Adding another analog stick just makes it more of a console on the go. If I wanted that I'd play those games on a console, I'd rather play on a big screen TV with surround sound with a proper controller.

Nintendo doesn't really seem to care about ports, they just want more content that'll sell their platform. In terms of their own games I don't think a lot will resort to using a second analog stick.

In terms of the games you mentioned, I wouldn't have bought any of those in the first place. I'd rather see developers try to do something unique on the platform. Look at TWEWY and how well it played on the DS and how that experience would be totally different elsewhere. Look at Rhythm Heaven on the DS and how unique that was. Look at how well the two Zelda games played using the DS' touch screen and touch elements. Look at how great Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story was with it's touch features. That's the kind of stuff I want to see come to the 3DS. I don't want stuff that is a gimped down version of a console experience. There are only SOME cases where a game can turn out well but it still feels gimped -- SSFIV3D. Then there are other cases where the developer adds some unique additions to the game that enhance it -- OoT3D with it's gyro controls for camera controls and aiming.

But do you think the games like those you mentioned wouldn't be made otherwise? I mean, Call of Duty had 4 releases(3 of which were excellent) on DS, but TWEWY still made it onto the platform. With the second stick those of us who want more consol-esque experiences can have them. Or what about franchises that didnt do well enough to continue on consoles? What are the odds that a new WET or Alpha Protocol or would see the light of day on home consoles? Slim and none repectively. But if the same input method are available, maybe one day we'll see them on our handhelds- development is cheaper, I'd imagine, and money is a big motivator. And at the same time, devs can find new uses for the touchscreen if they have an alternate input for the camera. Or games that don't provide camera control because the touch interface is used for a different purpose can get it. Can you honestly say that no/bad camera control is better than having analogue camera control? I just don't understand the opposition here- console experiences will happen either way, but with a second stick, they'll feel more natural and less like a second-best alternative.