My pokemon Team needs a special sweeper?

ok i have almost the unstopable team, but have a huge weakness when it comes to a special sweeper,i am thinking of azelf or porygon z, and i want to try and stay away from things like alakazamdue to the fact of dark types which are becoming increasingly popular. Please give me a nasty plot special sweeper, with a good moveset, with reasons and strategy. thank you.

3 pokemon came in my mind:porygon z, electivire, magmortar.

3 pokemon came in my mind:porygon z, electivire, magmortar.

gamedude234

electivire isnt special, magmortar sucks. porygon z is good though, azelf, and gengar are other good options. im not writing you a moveset. search on smogon.com if you dont want to make one yourself.

the only nasty plotter that come to mind that arent weak to dark and havent been mentioned
ninetales, houndooom and infernape.
But they all have pretty shallow movesets except for infernape (who is usually better as a mixed attacker but...)
Infernape
Nasty Plot
Vaccum Wave
Fire Blast/Flamethrower
Grass Knot/Hidden Power Ice/Electric

2 STAB moves, one of which is a priority move
grass knot if you want to deal with swamperts and suicune
hidden power ice for salamence and gliscor
hidden power electric for gyarados and vaporeon
Plus it resists dark but like wet mop mentioned, smogon.com is your friend

Porygon-Z

I would say porygon z or gengarTwinOs

It depends on what your team is / needs is it the same team you posted in a rmt?

Gengar (my fave PKMN) or Magnezone with the move Magent rise.

[QUOTE="gamedude234"]

3 pokemon came in my mind:porygon z, electivire, magmortar.

the_wet_mop

electivire isnt special, magmortar sucks. porygon z is good though, azelf, and gengar are other good options. im not writing you a moveset. search on smogon.com if you dont want to make one yourself.

lol, you're right about electivire, sorry! why does magmortar suck?

[QUOTE="the_wet_mop"]

[QUOTE="gamedude234"]

3 pokemon came in my mind:porygon z, electivire, magmortar.

gamedude234

electivire isnt special, magmortar sucks. porygon z is good though, azelf, and gengar are other good options. im not writing you a moveset. search on smogon.com if you dont want to make one yourself.

lol, you're right about electivire, sorry! why does magmortar suck?

well, he's not THAT bad i guess. he just doesnt really measure up to the others listed in this thread. 1: he's not as strong as alakazam or porygon-z 2: he's a good deal slower than any of the other pokemon mentioned 3: he's a fire type, which makes him weak to stealth rock and the oh so popular earthquake.

[QUOTE="gamedude234"]

[QUOTE="the_wet_mop"]

electivire isnt special, magmortar sucks. porygon z is good though, azelf, and gengar are other good options. im not writing you a moveset. search on smogon.com if you dont want to make one yourself.

the_wet_mop

lol, you're right about electivire, sorry! why does magmortar suck?

well, he's not THAT bad i guess. he just doesnt really measure up to the others listed in this thread. 1: he's not as strong as alakazam or porygon-z 2: he's a good deal slower than any of the other pokemon mentioned 3: he's a fire type, which makes him weak to stealth rock and the oh so popular earthquake.

i agree, alakazam is a great sp. sweeper. but r u saying that fire types r weak???

magnezone is great too

i agree, alakazam is a great sp. sweeper. but r u saying that fire types r weak???

gamedude234

Personally fire is my favorite type though.

[QUOTE="gamedude234"]

i agree, alakazam is a great sp. sweeper. but r u saying that fire types r weak???

nintendofreak_2

Personally fire is my favorite type though.

actually, fire types have 3 weaknesses. they are super effective on 4 types. also, nearly all fire types can learn grass knot, sunny day+solarbeam, by the way, alakazam and porygon z have the highest sp. attack

[QUOTE="nintendofreak_2"]

[QUOTE="gamedude234"]

i agree, alakazam is a great sp. sweeper. but r u saying that fire types r weak???

gamedude234

Personally fire is my favorite type though.

actually, fire types have 3 weaknesses. they are super effective on 4 types. also, nearly all fire types can learn grass knot, sunny day+solarbeam, by the way, alakazam and porygon z have the highest sp. attack

curious at your grass knot statement, i went an checked. only ONE firetype pokemon can learn it, and thats infernape

http://www.serebii.net/attackdex-dp/grassknot.shtml

and while most can learn solar beam, it doesnt really help them, as most fire types arent good enough defensively to take an EQ while they set it up. (magmortar uses sunny day! electivire uses Earthquake! OHKO)

more important, however, is that fact that many pokemon that are NOT ground type can get earthquake. snorlax, slaking, electivire, gyrados, dragonite, metagross, machamp, drapion, gallade, ect, ect, ect. EQ is an excellent move, and is a staple on many popular sets of OU pokemon. to say that it's popular would be a gross understatement.

i wouldnt say that all fire types are bad, but it certainly doesnt help that they are weak to what are arguably the two most popular moves in the current metagame.

[QUOTE="gamedude234"]

[QUOTE="nintendofreak_2"]They're not weak, but they are very vulnerable because they lose more health than other types from Stealth Rock (they lose 1/4 HP) and with how common Earthquake is, they have more Pokemon that threaten them than they threaten.

Personally fire is my favorite type though.

the_wet_mop

actually, fire types have 3 weaknesses. they are super effective on 4 types. also, nearly all fire types can learn grass knot, sunny day+solarbeam, by the way, alakazam and porygon z have the highest sp. attack

curious at your grass knot statement, i went an checked. only ONE firetype pokemon can learn it, and thats infernape

http://www.serebii.net/attackdex-dp/grassknot.shtml

and while most can learn solar beam, it doesnt really help them, as most fire types arent good enough defensively to take an EQ while they set it up. (magmortar uses sunny day! electivire uses Earthquake! OHKO)

more important, however, is that fact that many pokemon that are NOT ground type can get earthquake. snorlax, slaking, electivire, gyrados, dragonite, metagross, machamp, drapion, gallade, ect, ect, ect. EQ is an excellent move, and is a staple on many popular sets of OU pokemon. to say that it's popular would be a gross understatement.

i wouldnt say that all fire types are bad, but it certainly doesnt help that they are weak to what are arguably the two most popular moves in the current metagame.

.........................oops:?sorry bout grass knot. Sunny day + solar beam. i see your points and probs with sunny day+solarbeam, but here is 1 good solution: focus band. also, your ex. about magmortar vs electivire,why would someonegive EQ to an electivire? also, magmortar wouldn't use sunny day+solarbeam against an electivire, now would it? it would use flamethrower or something simalar. also, sunny day wekens water moves to the point that they r only "effective", not "super effective" the only problem is rock types. but, if magmortar is a leader, what r the chances that your opponent has a rock type as a leader? if its a, say a normal type, magmortar can prepare sunny day without serious damage... OR u can have 2 fire types ex. rapidash+magmortar rapidash vs slaking:rapidash uses sunny day, slaking uses EQ, rapidash resists thanks to focus band. rapidash uses flamethrower, slaking is loafing around! rapidash uses flamethrower, slaking uses EQ rapidash KO, magmortar comes and finishes off slaking with flamethrower, sends out rhyperior, magmortar uses solarbeam, rhyperior on OHKO'd (becauseof rhyperior's bad sp. defence)ecc... just as an example(this situation really happend).

focus band? try sash instead...Someone would give eq to electivire for coverage and also eq is the most used move around... Magmortar is not a lead because there are things called suicide leads and things called weather leads and things called anti leads.... Aerodactyl is a popular lead... sr on the first turn then eq.... OR Azelf: sr on the first turn, then BOOM...OR metagross: sr on the first turn, then eq... the list goes on... (magmortar is just too slow to do much...) Nobody uses Slaking that way anymore... now it is a VERY powerful revenge killer.... (YOu DONT lead with slaking...) ANyway, who switches in a rhyperior on a solarbeam???

Azelf is my favorite sp sweeper

focus band? try sash instead...Someone would give eq to electivire for coverage and also eq is the most used move around... Magmortar is not a lead because there are things called suicide leads and things called weather leads and things called anti leads.... Aerodactyl is a popular lead... sr on the first turn then eq.... OR Azelf: sr on the first turn, then BOOM...OR metagross: sr on the first turn, then eq... the list goes on... (magmortar is just too slow to do much...) Nobody uses Slaking that way anymore... now it is a VERY powerful revenge killer.... (YOu DONT lead with slaking...) ANyway, who switches in a rhyperior on a solarbeam???

Azelf is my favorite sp sweeper

Colonnello

OMG... what i said was just an example.

[QUOTE="Colonnello"]

focus band? try sash instead...Someone would give eq to electivire for coverage and also eq is the most used move around... Magmortar is not a lead because there are things called suicide leads and things called weather leads and things called anti leads.... Aerodactyl is a popular lead... sr on the first turn then eq.... OR Azelf: sr on the first turn, then BOOM...OR metagross: sr on the first turn, then eq... the list goes on... (magmortar is just too slow to do much...) Nobody uses Slaking that way anymore... now it is a VERY powerful revenge killer.... (YOu DONT lead with slaking...) ANyway, who switches in a rhyperior on a solarbeam???

Azelf is my favorite sp sweeper

gamedude234

OMG... what i said was just an example.

The thing is, if you plan on giving bad examples, don't give any at all... Anyway, it's pretty obvious you're covering up a slip... Magmortar lead?? WOW... but at least you meant well...


While using staples may sound unoriginal but they're staples because they work; it's a waste of time trying to put together an unique team just for originality... unless you're REALLY good, it won't work... Anyway, originality can still be achieved through move sets... So there's absolutely no point trying to fit a pokemon in a role where a better one would work much better (unless it's for personal reasons of course...).


Now here's a good np azelf set:
Expert Belt (life orb is sometimes a better choice though...)
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Speed
Timid
Nasty Plot
Flamethrower- for steels... (scizor etc)
Psychic- STAB
HP Fighting (grass knot also works...)- HP takes care of dark types(tyranitar) while grass knot kills bulky waters and ground...

PoryZ
Life orb (better than silk scarf imo)
Timid
4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Speed
Nasty Plot
Tri-Attack-STAB
Dark Pulse- Ghosts... (not so common now though... bar rotom)
HP Fighting- Rocks/steels
You could replace dark pulse and hp with ice beam and thunderbolt but then there's rotom...


This is just an example though....

Nasty plot azelf doesnt work hes simply to frail, use what colon suggested but change the nature to naive and give him explosion instead of nastyplot then put those 4 points at hp for attack

Starmies my favourite special sweeper heres the set

Starmie @ life orb

Ability: Natural cure ( well duh )

Nature: timid

Evs: 252 spattk / 252 speed / 4hp

-Hydro pump

-Thunderbolt

-Icebeam

-Rapid spin / recover

use rapid spin if your having trouble with stall, most people would go "hey hes using a life orb he probably doesnt carry rapid spin" and thats where you surprise them, if you would rather trade accuracy for lower damage use surf, although hydro pump 0hkos a ttar if spikes and sr are on the field and will most likely 0hko a rotom whos attempting to spin block

Nasty plot azelf doesnt work hes simply to frail, use what colon suggested but change the nature to naive and give him explosion instead of nastyplot then put those 4 points at hp for attack

Starmies my favourite special sweeper heres the set

Starmie @ life orb

Ability: Natural cure ( well duh )

Nature: timid

Evs: 252 spattk / 252 speed / 4hp

-Hydro pump

-Thunderbolt

-Icebeam

-Rapid spin / recover

use rapid spin if your having trouble with stall, most people would go "hey hes using a life orb he probably doesnt carry rapid spin" and thats where you surprise them, if you would rather trade accuracy for lower damage use surf, although hydro pump 0hkos a ttar if spikes and sr are on the field and will most likely 0hko a rotom whos attempting to spin block

doobalol

good starmie! may i suggest phsychis instead of t-bolt?you know, STAB. anyway, may i remind everyone that porygon-z and alakazam have the highest sp. attack(excluding ubers). so here is a seeper alakazam:

Nature:modest(for obvious reasons)

EVs:252 in sp. attack, 252 in speed, 6 EVs in sp. defense

item: focus band(i guess life orb could work...)

Moves: calm mind(OK i know what you're thinking:OMG calm mind?! alakazam could be OHKO'd by shadow claw! well thats why i gave it a focus band?

psychic(STAB)

focus blast(for fighting types)

shadow ball(for ghost types)

I have won many battles thanks to this.

[QUOTE="doobalol"]

Nasty plot azelf doesnt work hes simply to frail, use what colon suggested but change the nature to naive and give him explosion instead of nastyplot then put those 4 points at hp for attack

Starmies my favourite special sweeper heres the set

Starmie @ life orb

Ability: Natural cure ( well duh )

Nature: timid

Evs: 252 spattk / 252 speed / 4hp

-Hydro pump

-Thunderbolt

-Icebeam

-Rapid spin / recover

use rapid spin if your having trouble with stall, most people would go "hey hes using a life orb he probably doesnt carry rapid spin" and thats where you surprise them, if you would rather trade accuracy for lower damage use surf, although hydro pump 0hkos a ttar if spikes and sr are on the field and will most likely 0hko a rotom whos attempting to spin block

gamedude234

good starmie! may i suggest phsychis instead of t-bolt?you know, STAB. anyway, may i remind everyone that porygon-z and alakazam have the highest sp. attack(excluding ubers). so here is a sweeper alakazam:

Nature:modest(for obvious reasons)

EVs:252 in sp. attack, 252 in speed, 6 EVs in sp. defense

item: focus band(i guess life orb could work...)

Moves: calm mind(OK i know what you're thinking:OMG calm mind?! alakazam could be OHKO'd by shadow claw! well thats why i gave it a focus band)

psychic(STAB)

focus blast(fordark types)

shadow ball(for ghost types)

I have won many battles thanks to this.

yeah, i corrected it. ignore my previous post

nah, starmie needs tbolt for the coverage, that alakazam would be a good special sweeper I guess if its in late game, but I wouldnt suggest alakazam cause hes too frail and almost any priorty move can kill him :P

nah, starmie needs tbolt for the coverage, that alakazam would be a good special sweeper I guess if its in late game, but I wouldnt suggest alakazam cause hes too frail and almost any priorty move can kill him :P

doobalol

alakazam has weak defense, and weak HP. so? with LO an alakazam like mine can sweep most pkmn. exept dark types, which focus blast can deal with.

also, with focus band, alakazam can use calm mind, get hit by:shadow ball, dark pulse, EQwhatever. resist with 1 HP, and then sweep like no tomorrow.

[QUOTE="doobalol"]

nah, starmie needs tbolt for the coverage, that alakazam would be a good special sweeper I guess if its in late game, but I wouldnt suggest alakazam cause hes too frail and almost any priorty move can kill him :P

gamedude234

alakazam has weak defense, and weak HP. so? with LO an alakazam like mine can sweep most pkmn. exept dark types, which focus blast can deal with.

also, with focus band, alakazam can use calm mind, get hit by:shadow ball, dark pulse, EQwhatever. resist with 1 HP, and then sweep like no tomorrow.

[QUOTE="gamedude234"]

[QUOTE="doobalol"]

nah, starmie needs tbolt for the coverage, that alakazam would be a good special sweeper I guess if its in late game, but I wouldnt suggest alakazam cause hes too frail and almost any priorty move can kill him :P

Hegna1

alakazam has weak defense, and weak HP. so? with LO an alakazam like mine can sweep most pkmn. exept dark types, which focus blast can deal with.

also, with focus band, alakazam can use calm mind, get hit by:shadow ball, dark pulse, EQwhatever. resist with 1 HP, and then sweep like no tomorrow.

so you are saying that speed is more important than sp. attack for alakazam? well, alakazam has very high speed already. trick room. OK, i understand that trick room could destroy alakazam, but there you go. using trick room is a very risky strategy... ok, so aerodactyl is faster. OF COURSE HE IS! he is one of the 4 fastest non- uber pokemon! they r:aerodactyl, jolteon, elecdrode, ninjask. no one can outspeed those. Scizor is the most used pokemon? well, here in europe i don't see many scizor users.

so you are saying that speed is more important than sp. attack for alakazam? well, alakazam has very high speed already. trick room. OK, i understand that trick room could destroy alakazam, but there you go. using trick room is a very risky strategy... ok, so aerodactyl is faster. OF COURSE HE IS! he is one of the 4 fastest non- uber pokemon! they r:aerodactyl, jolteon, elecdrode, ninjask. no one can outspeed those. Scizor is the most used pokemon? well, here in europe i don't see many scizor users.

gamedude234

[QUOTE="gamedude234"]

so you are saying that speed is more important than sp. attack for alakazam? well, alakazam has very high speed already. trick room. OK, i understand that trick room could destroy alakazam, but there you go. using trick room is a very risky strategy... ok, so aerodactyl is faster. OF COURSE HE IS! he is one of the 4 fastest non- uber pokemon! they r:aerodactyl, jolteon, elecdrode, ninjask. no one can outspeed those. Scizor is the most used pokemon? well, here in europe i don't see many scizor users.

Hegna1

so you are saying that every team sucks if it doesn't have a scizor? and even if they do, if it doesn't have Bullet punch, it sucks?sheesh.

like I said, alakazam can have enormous speed if u give 252 EVs in it.

by the way, if a gengar is faster than alakazam: Gengar uses shadow ball,alakazam resists on 1 HPusing focus band, alakazam uses psychic, gengar faints.Simple!

so you are saying that every team sucks if it doesn't have a scizor? and even if they do, if it doesn't have Bullet punch, it sucks?sheesh.

like I said, alakazam can have enormous speed if u give 252 EVs in it.

gamedude234

He said Bullet Punch Scizor is the most used Pokemon in competitive battling anymore, which means that you have to be prepared for one since they are used as revenge killers, and can easily take out your Alakazam (which should be using a Focus SASH, not a focus band).

by the way, if a gengar is faster than alakazam: Gengar uses shadow ball,alakazam resists on 1 HPusing focus band, alakazam uses psychic, gengar faints.Simple!gamedude234

@Doobalol
NP Azelf does work... but only on the switch of course...

BTW... the original message actually specifies a np set...

Scizor should ALWAYS either be ON your team or have a counter on your team... see the thing is, in competitive pokemon, there are always staples... and there always will be... and when one pokemon become so OVERused and OPed that it's almost on EVERY team, its counter will also overun the metagame. And this is called a monopolized metagame. And when something like this happens, the overused pokemon will be moved up a tier... Garchomp....

That's why teams without counters to common threats will fail... simple...

I vote for exeggutor.

@Doobalol
NP Azelf does work... but only on the switch of course...

BTW... the original message actually specifies a np set...

Scizor should ALWAYS either be ON your team or have a counter on your team... see the thing is, in competitive pokemon, there are always staples... and there always will be... and when one pokemon become so OVERused and OPed that it's almost on EVERY team, its counter will also overun the metagame. And this is called a monopolized metagame. And when something like this happens, the overused pokemon will be moved up a tier... Garchomp....

That's why teams without counters to common threats will fail... simple...

Colonnello

I know the original sets a np set it just doesnt work well at competettive battling, you'd be better going off with explosion to end things with a bang, and garchomp didnt get moved for being so popular but so broken, with a moveset of swordsdance / dragonclaw(or outrage) / earthquake / fire fang he could hit everything neutrally and with a yache berry he wouldnt get 0hkoed by a choiceband mamoswine ice shard and with sand veil up theres a chance for it to miss so he was simply too broken so he got moved.

I still suggest you use starmie / gengar / azelf I like starmie the most though

alakazam has a higher base speed than gengar...alakazam:120 base speed gengar:110 base speed. check smogon.com. anyway if you don't want alakazam(he IS strong) porygon-z is the way to go. here's a good porygon-z:

nature:modest

item:life orb/leftovers

moves:Nasty plot

pshchic(for fighting types)

dark pulse(for ghosts)

tri attack(STAB) or substitute(if u choose substitute, give him leftovers)

by the way, sorry Hegna1, i misunderstood you. its just that if so many people have scizor, all you need is a fire type. thats why i don't see many scizor users(in europe, i have never been to america...)Glad to help!

That's a pretty bad porygon z...
Because: it's bad to run modest unless it's subsalac or choice...
Why sub?? What does it achieve??
Alakazam has fallen considerably since the gen shift because it lost a lot of coverage with the physical/special split (it now has to rely on focus blast). The only good thing it could do is trick a choice item away but now even that is no longer a surprise...
Gengar is better because it has almost perfect coverage with shadow ball and hp fighting, it's ghost type AND it learns trick and explosion... all these these things make it better than Alakazam...

That's a pretty bad porygon z...
Because: it's bad to run modest unless it's subsalac or choice...
Why sub?? What does it achieve??
Alakazam has fallen considerably since the gen shift because it lost a lot of coverage with the physical/special split (it now has to rely on focus blast). The only good thing it could do is trick a choice item away but now even that is no longer a surprise...
Gengar is better because it has almost perfect coverage with shadow ball and hp fighting, it's ghost type AND it learns trick and explosion... all these these things make it better than Alakazam...

Colonnello

1. alakazam can OHKO gengar without damage.

2. modest is nearly the perfect nature for sp. sweepers. modest boosts sp.attack and anti-boosts attack.sp. sweepers don't need attack...its perfect! substitute allows porygon-z to use NPwithout huge damage(he also uses leftovers to recuperate the damage). porygon- z can be OHKO'd with close combat or cross chop, because of its low defense(base defense:70) if you don't want substitute, get tri-attack.

Gengar is better because it has almost perfect coverage with shadow ball and hp fighting, it's ghost type AND it learns trick and explosion... all these these things make it better than Alakazam...

Colonnello

1. alakazam can OHKO gengar without damage.

2. modest is nearly the perfect nature for sp. sweepers. modest boosts sp.attack and anti-boosts attack.sp. sweepers don't need attack...its perfect! substitute allows porygon-z to use NPwithout huge damage(he also uses leftovers to recuperate the damage). porygon- z can be OHKO'd with close combat or cross chop, because of its low defense(base defense:70) if you don't want substitute, get tri-attack.

gamedude234

Porygon-Z@Salac Berry
Adapatability
Modest/Timid (since you're getting the Salac boost, Modest is acceptable, but I still prefer Timid)
Nasty Plot
Sub
Tri-Attack (adaptability boosted Tri-attack anyone?)
Hidden Power Water (Normal/Water is great coverage, being only resisted by 2 non-ubers)

If you're too lazy to breed for Hidden Power, then Dark Pulse could replace HP water, but HP water has much superior coverage as Normal/Dark is resisted by all steel types and Tyranitar.

[QUOTE="Colonnello"]Gengar is better because it has almost perfect coverage with shadow ball and hp fighting, it's ghost type AND it learns trick and explosion... all these these things make it better than Alakazam...

Hegna1

1. alakazam can OHKO gengar without damage.

2. modest is nearly the perfect nature for sp. sweepers. modest boosts sp.attack and anti-boosts attack.sp. sweepers don't need attack...its perfect! substitute allows porygon-z to use NPwithout huge damage(he also uses leftovers to recuperate the damage). porygon- z can be OHKO'd with close combat or cross chop, because of its low defense(base defense:70) if you don't want substitute, get tri-attack.

gamedude234

Porygon-Z@Salac Berry
Adapatability
Modest/Timid (since you're getting the Salac boost, Modest is acceptable, but I still prefer Timid)
Nasty Plot
Sub
Tri-Attack (adaptability boosted Tri-attack anyone?)
Hidden Power Water (Normal/Water is great coverage, being only resisted by 2 non-ubers)

If you're too lazy to breed for Hidden Power, then Dark Pulse could replace HP water, but HP water has much superior coverage as Normal/Dark is resisted by all steel types and Tyranitar.

you use adapatability only for 1 move... its not worth it. though i guess its better than download... your porygon-z can be virtually destroyed by a ghost type... give it dark pulse. here's another set:

nature:modest

item:life orb

moves:nasty plot

tri attack

hidden power fighting/psychc

dark pulse

honestly you really are picky about your pokemon