Nintendo and MotionPlus - Think about it

Here is an 180% optimistic MotionPlus thread, so we can forget a bit the "it will b expensivezz!!" and "evil nitnendo didt releaz m+ tech @ launch 2 make teh moneyzzz!!!" comments. I think people around here are totally overlooking what will come from Nintendo from 2009 and on. But I first need your brain to be bursting with high expectations and daydreaming with gaming concepts. So if you haven't seen LiveMove 2 tech demo yet, watch it.

I think it's enough to be more than impressed. Seeing the MotionPlus in action like that sure fills our mind with high expectations for many games. So let's move to Iwata-san latest comment on MotionPlus.

"There will be games that will be enhanced by the Wii Motion Plus as well as games that can only be played with it. Users will need four if they have four controllers, but we're going to try to offer it for as little as possible. We haven't announced the price yet, but the cost of making the Wii Motion Plus is not that much, so I think we can make it very affordable."

Of course you capitalist terrorists were focusing on this:

"We haven't announced the price yet, but the cost of making the Wii Motion Plus is not that much, so I think we can make it very affordable."

While the holy words are those:

"There will be games that will be enhanced by the Wii Motion Plus as well as games that can only be played with it."

Ohohoho, what am I seeing there? Pretty much what Cpt. Obvious could have told me, there are many games being developed for MotionPlus at Nintendo. But I think it's a fact people need to consider a bit more. Nintendo development for it is going more than fine, they already know some of their games will feature optional MotionPlus support. They're far beyond early development. So I think it's safe to say Nintendo releases schedule up to, at least, late 2009 is pretty much established.

Which brings the actual topic, sorry to have wasted words: why the hell is that I only hear "OMG cant wait for zleda 1:1 swrodfighting!!1"?

Please consider these franchises:

Mario
Mario Party, Sports and Spin offs
Pikmin
StarFox
F-Zero
Zelda
Donkey Kong
Kirby
New and 2nd/3rd Party IPs

Most of those games are already announced or bound to happen on Wii. And all of them can benefit from MotionPlus. Not just Zelda.

I mean, a Mario platformer with MotionPlus drives me a lot crazier than a new Zelda. And I don't even want to think about what will happen if Metroid makes a surprise new appearance in late Wii lifespan, so I didn't put in on the list. Even Mario Party would be finally refreshed with MotionPlus, something that didn't happen with just the Wiimote - the LiveMove 2 tech demo is proof enough. Pikmin is also a no brainer. What about StarFox? Does it really need anything more than IR? Not really, but if Nintendo decides to put tilt for epic moves like the infamous barrel roll, it can be refined with optional MotionPlus. As seen in the LiveMove 2 demo, 1:1 tracking can emulate tilts detection with much more accuracy. Also, what's funny is that people talk a lot about swordfighting in Zelda, but I've never seen a thread about what new items for Zelda Nintendo could create with MotionPlus.

I won't even get started with totally unannounced games, such as Paper Mario 3. Action command with MotionPlus? Count me in. Trauma Center? A new Viewtiful Joe? The list goes on, although so far we can only hope.

What's the point of it all? MotionPlus is a blessing and people aren't drooling enough. Of course, it would have been better if such technology was available from day one, but hey, it would also have been better if the first console ever released was the GameCube, with The Wind Waker, Resident Evil 4 and Metroid Prime as launch titles, right? The thing is, not only the next wave of Nintendo - not to mention third party - "core" games is finally shaping up, but it will be better, fresher, and crazier than we could ever have expected, because of this little thing:

Because, frankly, when I don't see people not even mentioning how the friggin new Mario is bound to support MotionPlus, I just get worried.

I think they waited so long for the motion plus because they thought MS and sony were making their own Wiimotes and they wanted to screw with them.

and as for metroid the M+ could only be useful in a few places

Lol at capitalist terrorists. XD

Anyways, I agree. The vast reach of the MotionPlus peripheral expands far beyond that of the Legend of Zelda. I'm interested to see what not only Nintendo, but third parties (I'm looking at you Red Steel 2) can do with it.

im not gonna act all pesemestic cuz im not im looking forward to this and noones gonna tell me otherwiseRuhdezee

That made me laugh! :lol: In a good way, don't worry. ;)

I'll try my best from taking your 180% 'thread of love' toward the M+ and crapping on it... but I heard the same thing that convinced me to buy a Wii... here I am and everyone is saying it again. Sorry, I only get bit once.raahsnavj

Hm, games like Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime 3, Zack & Wiki, Boom Blox, and even remakes like RE4 and Okami fully justify the Wiimote. And I'm not talking about future releases that won't support MotionPlus, such as de Blob, Fragile, Tenchu 4, MadWorld, Little King Story, Cursed Mountain that have all awesome potential.

So, there's no reason to think it's the Wii all over again, in a bad way. First because the Wii started good and got better and better, so if the MotionPlus is anything like that, it will only lead to unprecedent must play games. Second because, it's not like a totally new thing, as the Wii was, there's even an awesome engine (LiveMove 2) available before the actual release of the product.

In other words, it's a totally different scenario. You just can't compare the Wii release to the MotionPlus release.

Is there a way to put the nunchuck on the wiimote after you put the m+ on? Also I'm not really looking forward to it that much 1:1 just doesn't seem that big of a deal to me. Although it could improve on a couple of things, in games. One I could think of is the ball and chain in zelda, where you actually swing to hit something.Minishdriveby

1. Yes, of course, haven't you seen Reggie using it?

2. Frankly, "could improve ball and chain"... You people are astonishingly unimaginative... :?

i dont believe it can cost that much. nintendo knows people will be angry if it costs any more than 10-20 dollars for one. they even said they are thinking about including it with all future wiimotes, or something similar and im pretty sure 60 dollars for a wiimote will look pretty ugly to consumers when it once looked 40 dollars... and they still had to buy a nunchuck.

on a sadder note, im hoping that devs will implement it correctly. One example i made athread about but no one answered in was my idea of how mario tennis would work. it'd benefit a lot from the amped up motion tracking power, but at the same time, 1:1 motion might actually make the game harder. before, it was pretty much swing and you animation will swing in a predetermined manner so it was more like pushing a button. but if they make it 1:1 the game might become a lot harder and actually require you to swing all the way through everytime to finish a real swing or else you'd get a volley every time. also, spinning the controller may actually make your balls spin, so the controlls may be even harder. i wont mind since i play tennis, but there is a dilemma. at the same time, this might be a good thing since it makes the game truly realistic and immersive... so i guess you can spin this concept either way.

One example i made athread about but no one answered in was my idea of how mario tennis would work. it'd benefit a lot from the amped up motion tracking power, but at the same time, 1:1 motion might actually make the game harder.

bionicle_lover

That's where that "snap to fit" feature from LiveMove 2 comes in. It limits the range of motions recognized so that only those relevant for the game are used and properly represented on screen (not necessarily exactly how you did it). Another example of limiting 1:1 can be found in the tech demo, if you compare the the balls hitting and ragdoll sword demos. In the ragdoll one, the sword was completely free. But in the balls hitting one, the hilt of the sword was fixed in one point, and the edge turned around it. Otherwise it would have been impossible to hit all the balls properly.

As you can see, there are many ways to make a game more accurate without making it harder.

Now what would happen if you have the wii motion plus in while your playing a game out now? Does the game get inhanced to the 1:1?

Now what would happen if you have the wii motion plus in while your playing a game out now? Does the game get inhanced to the 1:1?

musicman748

Think about it for one second. How would the game be magically enhanced like that? You expect the game to react like it was never supposed to?

some stuff in this thread made me laugh...

anyways, the only game im concerned about motion plus now is zelda... i dont see many changes with motion plus on mario (what was the change with the regular wiimote? "shake to attack" and a couple pointer functions). starfox may be interesting during the dogfights, but ground battle wouldnt get much improvement... unless they add melee weapons (UGH!)

F-zero just needs to come with a wii wheel skin/new design in a separated package... i mean, what willbe added with motion+ in a F-zero game?

some stuff in this thread made me laugh...

anyways, the only game im concerned about motion plus now is zelda... i dont see many changes with motion plus on mario (what was the change with the regular wiimote? "shake to attack" and a couple pointer functions). starfox may be interesting during the dogfights, but ground battle wouldnt get much improvement... unless they add melee weapons (UGH!)

F-zero just needs to come with a wii wheel skin/new design in a separated package... i mean, what willbe added with motion+ in a F-zero game?

BrunoBRS

F-Zero: just as StarFox, optional for more accuracy, and that's about it. I mean, M+ could actually make people stop saying analog is the way to go.

StarFox: doesn't belong to the ground, nuff said.

Mario: the "couple pointer function" actually added a lot to the game. What you're missing, it's that it isn't just about making mario moving around, but new elements can be brought. If you think about Mario and then about MotionPlus, instead of MotionPlus possibilities and then how to add them and which to add in Mario, you're getting nowhere.

The "problem" with the Wii is that Nintendo won't make "Core games" (read it "Halo or GTA"), but when they do seat and make a game, they come up with something like MP3:C or Mario Galaxy. Only Nintendo seems to have the creativity to flesh out the unique capabilities of the Wii, while the others' limited brains and imaginations simply can't cope with the novelty and remain stuck with the old gaming paradigms. While Nintendo pushes on and broadens even further the scope for innovation, the others are beating their brains out trying to figure out how to program the SPU's so that they can make last year's great looking game to look even better (though the game sucked in every other aspect).

The Wii is by far the most suitable platform for FPS, but there aren't many of them (and most of those few are horrendous), mainly because the Wii cannot provide developers with the only thing that seems to matter on a FPS: Impresive graphics. if you got that, then you got a bes-seller, even if the rest of the game is crap.

Maybe the sad truth is that the industry (and mankind in general) is not ready for something as ground-breaking as the Wii barebones. Sum up the WiiMotion Plus and what little was left of the developer's brains explode. Where are the Jordan Mechners, the John Carmacks, the Will Wrights (oh wait, Spore is coming to the Wii!). Where are those pioneer genii that revolutionized our industry with way far less that a Wiimote?

Let's hope I can get to gather my development team and enough budget to make a full fledged game before the Wii era is over, and then you'll see a third party game on par with Nintendo's own creations.

And as of the topic, I'm quite optimistic about the WM+, but only for Nintendo. I don't think anyone else will come up with something trully impressive.

[QUOTE="raahsnavj"]I'll try my best from taking your 180% 'thread of love' toward the M+ and crapping on it... but I heard the same thing that convinced me to buy a Wii... here I am and everyone is saying it again. Sorry, I only get bit once.Wintry_Flutist

Hm, games like Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime 3, Zack & Wiki, Boom Blox, and even remakes like RE4 and Okami fully justify the Wiimote. And I'm not talking about future releases that won't support MotionPlus, such as de Blob, Fragile, Tenchu 4, MadWorld, Little King Story, Cursed Mountain that have all awesome potential.

So, there's no reason to think it's the Wii all over again, in a bad way. First because the Wii started good and got better and better, so if the MotionPlus is anything like that, it will only lead to unprecedent must play games. Second because, it's not like a totally new thing, as the Wii was, there's even an awesome engine (LiveMove 2) available before the actual release of the product.

In other words, it's a totally different scenario. You just can't compare the Wii release to the MotionPlus release.

While the holy words are those:

"There will be games that will be enhanced by the Wii Motion Plus as well as games that can only be played with it."

Wintry_Flutist

Holy?!?

Maybe, but it would have been better if you just had, "There will be games that will be enhanced by the Wii Motion Plus..."

Maybe it's just me, but the whole "games that can only be played with it" deal really worries me. I wonder how seriously people are going to take this. How well will Motion+ sell?

Which brings up another question. How many devs will take advantage of +? Will they make games that need +, or play it safe and try to maximize profits by making games that do not require +?

I guess only time will tell...

Also, bless you Wintry. You made me remember how great the Gamecube was. I don't know how you did it, but I had memories of playing RE4, sunshine, WW, and Pikmin for the first time, and honestly, I forgot how wonderful of a system the gamecube was. I really wish I didn't sell it... :cry:

I think people are not droolong enough for two reasons.

The first is that the things is still 8-10 months away, that is a long time.

The second is that Nintendo has yet to show anything for it other than more minigame Wiisport games.

The bold line is where we disagree. It started off awesome and the controls aren't getting any better... The novelty of the 'almost functional' controls wears thin and everyone starts programming for CC and GC pads... then M+ came along saying 'yeah, we know the controls aren't everything yet... M+ fixes that!' Sure it does... That is how I'm looking at it.

Of course the bold line is where both our opinions hang on the balance... and until we agree on that, there really isn't much to talk about regarding M+ other than you think it will continue to help... and I say it is a ditch statement to try and rekindle novelty in the wonky controls that are not improving over the lifespan of the Wii. It's ok we can disagree. Now back to your regularly scheduled Wii Hype thread...raahsnavj

Probably because you are thinking "better" as in "more precise controls". No. I mean more support, and proper support. For example, right now we can look forward to Fragile, Little King Story, Cursed Mountain, de Blob, Tenchu 4, Monster Hunter 3, and more. And I don't remind any period when we could list so many games. And I'm not even mentioning titles I'm not so interedted in, like The Conduit, the Sonic and Star Wars games, Tales of Symphonia 2 and other that may interest other people.

Most of those games rely on the Wii remote. Obviously, if you're daydreaming about some ubber Wiimote immersion, there's no point going on. Motion sensoring is there just as there are buttons and an analog stick. Each has its benefits and flaws, or simply put, its purpose. The same will happen with the M+. But one thing is sute, the Wiimote makes the difference in those games.

My point is that Wii software has been increasing quantity and quality wise, and the MotionPlus comes to allow a lot more than just keeping this pace. If this isn't enough for you, I don't know what else to say.

While the holy words are those:

"There will be games that will be enhanced by the Wii Motion Plus as well as games that can only be played with it."

Niff_T

Never played Majora's Mask or Donkey Kong 64? Getting an Expansion Pak for them wasn't such big of a deal.

[QUOTE="raahsnavj"] The bold line is where we disagree. It started off awesome and the controls aren't getting any better... The novelty of the 'almost functional' controls wears thin and everyone starts programming for CC and GC pads... then M+ came along saying 'yeah, we know the controls aren't everything yet... M+ fixes that!' Sure it does... That is how I'm looking at it.

Of course the bold line is where both our opinions hang on the balance... and until we agree on that, there really isn't much to talk about regarding M+ other than you think it will continue to help... and I say it is a ditch statement to try and rekindle novelty in the wonky controls that are not improving over the lifespan of the Wii. It's ok we can disagree. Now back to your regularly scheduled Wii Hype thread...Wintry_Flutist

Probably because you are thinking "better" as in "more precise controls". No. I mean more support, and proper support.

I just have to say one thing. We should shorten MotionPlus as Mo+ instead of M+. ...That is all.

*imagines Mario Gold and Mario Tennis with the motionplus*

Win.

[QUOTE="Niff_T"]

While the holy words are those:

"There will be games that will be enhanced by the Wii Motion Plus as well as games that can only be played with it."

Wintry_Flutist

Never played Majora's Mask or Donkey Kong 64? Getting an Expansion Pak for them wasn't such big of a deal.

Woah!

That's completely different. The N64 expansion pack came free of charge with DK64. For M+ you need to buy one for each controller you own.

Since I'm unaware of this, would you by chance know if M+ will be packaged with anything else, or will you need to buy it separately? (like the remote and nunchuk)

Woah!

That's completely different. The N64 expansion pack came free of charge with DK64. For M+ you need to buy one for each controller you own.

Since I'm unaware of this, would you by chance know if M+ will be packaged with anything else, or will you need to buy it separately? (like the remote and nunchuk)Niff_T

First of all, it won't be sold separatedly from day one, but bundled with WiiSports Resort. Secondly, do you really think, let's say, if Zelda requires M+, there won't be bundles?

People are acting as if they'll need their four M+ (does everybody have four Wiimotes actually? And how much time until a four players game fully supports M+?) from day one... Jeez, you'll be able to buy one or more as software is released.

Yep, 'more precise controls'. If M+ doesn't provide that what is the point?raahsnavj

Well, there's no point going on if we don't get this clear:

M+ will provide better controls. If you don't believe so, you're a fool.

Wiimote usage has gotten better since release. There's always bad surprises (Fatal Frame 4), but there are more and more new good efforts (Little King Story, Cursed Mountain, de Blob, Fragile...)

M+ comes 'just in time' to increase even more this momentum.

What do you think is wrong there?

I just have to say one thing. We should shorten MotionPlus as Mo+ instead of M+. ...That is all.Arc2012

Too late for that, but may I ask why?

[QUOTE="Minishdriveby"]Is there a way to put the nunchuck on the wiimote after you put the m+ on? Also I'm not really looking forward to it that much 1:1 just doesn't seem that big of a deal to me. Although it could improve on a couple of things, in games. One I could think of is the ball and chain in zelda, where you actually swing to hit something.Wintry_Flutist

1. Yes, of course, haven't you seen Reggie using it?

2. Frankly, "could improve ball and chain"... You people are astonishingly unimaginative... :?

really cause it was your idea. Saying they could make the items in zelda better. I just gave a more detailed example, you could lasso the ball & chain over your head instead of just pressing A.

really cause it was your idea. Saying they could make the items in zelda better. I just gave a more detailed example, you could lasso the ball & chain over your head instead of just pressing A.

Minishdriveby

I'm talking about new items, not rehashing items made for traditional controllers... Just making the actual movements for items we already know isn't very inspired. Not to mention Wiimote alone would do it, since it's not like actual physics would do much for the B&C.

[QUOTE="Minishdriveby"]

really cause it was your idea. Saying they could make the items in zelda better. I just gave a more detailed example, you could lasso the ball & chain over your head instead of just pressing A.

Wintry_Flutist

I'm talking about new items, not rehashing items made for traditional controllers... Just making the actual movements for items we already know isn't very inspired. Not to mention Wiimote alone would do it, since it's not like actual physics would do much for the B&C.

Oh I see, what kind of items would you think they could add? I just thought of B&C in a couple seconds because on the ice boss mansion in TP the first thing I did was try to lasso my wii mote and throw it :lol:.

[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"]

some stuff in this thread made me laugh...

anyways, the only game im concerned about motion plus now is zelda... i dont see many changes with motion plus on mario (what was the change with the regular wiimote? "shake to attack" and a couple pointer functions). starfox may be interesting during the dogfights, but ground battle wouldnt get much improvement... unless they add melee weapons (UGH!)

F-zero just needs to come with a wii wheel skin/new design in a separated package... i mean, what willbe added with motion+ in a F-zero game?

Wintry_Flutist

F-Zero: just as StarFox, optional for more accuracy, and that's about it. I mean, M+ could actually make people stop saying analog is the way to go.

StarFox: doesn't belong to the ground, nuff said.

Mario: the "couple pointer function" actually added a lot to the game. What you're missing, it's that it isn't just about making mario moving around, but new elements can be brought. If you think about Mario and then about MotionPlus, instead of MotionPlus possibilities and then how to add them and which to add in Mario, you're getting nowhere.

starfox: i liked the ground parts in assault. but for those who dont: face it. since adventures (CURSE YOU KRYSTAL!!!), starfox will never be the same... may be something good, but may be bad. as long as we dont get melee weapons im fine with it

mario: i know that it could be added many things. but myiamoto is too "lets make things veeeeeery easy o learn and pratical, and always keep the games like they alway were. mario jumps and saves princesses. link solves puzzles and saves princesses", and im not sure how much change would be accepted by him and his flying tables (he throws tables around when hes mad or disagrees at something... its true)

mario: i know that it could be added many things. but myiamoto is too "lets make things veeeeeery easy o learn and pratical, and always keep the games like they alway were. mario jumps and saves princesses. link solves puzzles and saves princesses", and im not sure how much change would be accepted by him and his flying tables (he throws tables around when hes mad or disagrees at something... its true)

BrunoBRS

Mario has changed A LOT, and so has Zelda (almost) since their first games, so I don't see where you're coming from. Also, a game doesn't need to be utterly hard to be fun, and M+ doesn't mean a harder game, so it can be implemented in Mario effectively.

It ill obviously make games control better.

But unfortunately, I could see it being used by Nintendo only. (or for the most part)

I wish it would be become the standard, but that all depends on the sales of the hardware.

[QUOTE="Minishdriveby"]

really cause it was your idea. Saying they could make the items in zelda better. I just gave a more detailed example, you could lasso the ball & chain over your head instead of just pressing A.

Wintry_Flutist

I'm talking about new items, not rehashing items made for traditional controllers... Just making the actual movements for items we already know isn't very inspired. Not to mention Wiimote alone would do it, since it's not like actual physics would do much for the B&C.

New items in Zelda? That'd be awesome, I totally agree with what you're saying!

I mean, they could just simply add items in Zelda as downloadable content, because as we all know the Wii has no current storage issue...

I could see the M+ being used for some kind of polearm fighting or spear fighting.Other than that there isn't a whole lot of practical things I can think of.

sorry but just like the upcoming harddrive. finally getting the motion controls right is nothing but a repair to a faulty system that we have to pay for.

I won't even get started with totally unannounced games, such as Paper Mario 3. Action command with MotionPlus? Count me in. Trauma Center? A new Viewtiful Joe? The list goes on, although so far we can only hope.

Wintry_Flutist

sorry but just like the upcoming harddrive. finally getting the motion controls right is nothing but a repair to a faulty system that we have to pay for.

Elbowsmash

Right, so let's not enjoy it nor support it!

[QUOTE="Wintry_Flutist"][QUOTE="Minishdriveby"]

really cause it was your idea. Saying they could make the items in zelda better. I just gave a more detailed example, you could lasso the ball & chain over your head instead of just pressing A.

chefstubbies

I'm talking about new items, not rehashing items made for traditional controllers... Just making the actual movements for items we already know isn't very inspired. Not to mention Wiimote alone would do it, since it's not like actual physics would do much for the B&C.

New items in Zelda? That'd be awesome, I totally agree with what you're saying!

I mean, they could just simply add items in Zelda as downloadable content, because as we all know the Wii has no current storage issue...

Or you know there's always the option of making an actual wii zelda game.

Epic thread is epic. I'm not sure how Mario platformers could do it, but I'm sure Miyamoto won't disappoint. Traditional Paper Mario games could be improved slightly, at least in battle. Mario sports would become more awesome. Mario Party could be revolutionized. I'm not sure about Pikmin, though. From what I've seen of that, all it needs is a little IR.

A return of Punch-Out!! would be cool, but I don't see how Kirby could be improved. All of his abilities are completely different, so a different motion for each attack would be awesome, but most attacks are not done by Kirby's hands. Even so, tilting forward, backward, left, or right, or flicking in various directions could work. I'm not sure how much better that would be than pressing a button, though.

We'll just have to wait and see what the companies do.