Nintendo Going Hardcore? Post your fears here.

Okay so wii know have some idea that Nintendo will be creating a hardcore HD console. On paper it sounds like good and all, but

... I fear a repeat of the GAMECUBE again.

Gamecube = awesome power for its time, good 1st party games ......YET.... Horrible sales = EPIC FAIL

So yes, i want that HD but must admit its the casuals that saved nintendo this GEN.

Thoughts?

Nintendo is making a console for casuals and children

Nintendo was built on that direction and they will always follow that path

Also I want to point out that their next console wont be that powerful, slightly more powerful then the other consoles released 5 and 6 years ago isn't that powerful

Also I want to point out that their next console wont be that powerful, slightly more powerful then the other consoles released 5 and 6 years ago isn't that powerful

Jaysonguy

Also I want to point out that their next console wont be that powerful, slightly more powerful then the other consoles released 5 and 6 years ago isn't that powerful

Jaysonguy

seriously, is anyone really buying that crap?

that nintendo will give up on their money printer?BrunoBRS

The only time Nintendo shied away from an audience is with that MK1 fiasco and then they quickly changed their tune. While Jayson is clearly trolling, a legit point can be taken from that, Nintendo has never changed and never will. People simply say that they changed, because they decided to not come out with a 400 dollar HD console. A high priced console doesn't make you hardcore, it makes you an idiot who threw away a huge market advantage out of arrogance.


Nintendo did the same thing on the GC that they did on the NES, the SNES and the N64, with 2 out of the 3 being huge successes. The problem with the Gamecube wasn't "Nintendo trying to go hardcore" it was Sony has beat them to the market, had the 3rd party in their back pocket and Nintendo didn't pick up the slack with the 1st party. The 8-9 months droughts is what killed the GC, when you have to wait nearly a year in between big release, your not going to win over a lot of people. Particularly when the competition is getting AAA games every 3 weeks. This hardcore/casual is as stupid now as it was 5yrs ago, Nintendo is doing nothing different. At the end of the day, all that matters is the software, the N64 started to lose it, the GC never had, but Nintendo was able to support the Wii basically solo. With this new hardware it will be business as usual, they need games, whether they get the 3rd party back like the NES and SNES days or if they have to go it alone like the Wii, that's all there is.

Also I want to point out that their next console wont be that powerful, slightly more powerful then the other consoles released 5 and 6 years ago isn't that powerful

Jaysonguy

Well, Sony and Microsoft did decide thay wanted to make such a big jump with the PS3 and 360...

Thats why they costed so much...

Nintendo doesent need to Make to big of a jump ahead of them because at the moment its not cost effective to do so...

Its not going to be hardcore, a tabletish controler is as casual as possible

it wont be a gc or a wii again ,

nintendo is trying to get more 3rd party again ,

and by doing a hd wii built from the ground up have better visuals then ps3 or 360 which seams likely

if nintendos agen behind thats most likely whats their gonna do is make a console on par or better then ps3

it may sound bad off paper but what can ms or sony even do to make a big j ump again ,

fact is big jumps from them wont happen for quite some time , 3 yrs into wii 2s life to be exact - they are running ps3 360 ten yrs , and will not stop simply cause wii 2 is out ,

they have already commited to that , microsoft has already said -not ot expect next xbox until end of 2013 possibly even 2014 , they dont think 360s reach its peak yet , kenict was thier halfway point basically ,

sony is busy with 3d compatbility and move ,to even think of a new console are you guys really expecting that big of a ju mp in graphics in 2012 i dont think so ,

your not gonna get one for quite some time at least not at an afordable price,

if they do rele ase a 720 or ps4 right now i t would cost 700-800 to even 900 dollars,

cause ps3 360 are still at a relitively high 300 buck price range , there no way the next xbox or ps4 will launch at 400 with these still on the market for their current prices

and nintendo will win easily cause wii 2 will be 250 -300 dollars , with bluray a possibility and hd screen o nthe already success of wii mote ads ds possibilties into the mix and better hardware means more better games like saints row gta etc ,

you think nintendos coming up short handed look at what ms said above,

if nintendo runs its normal 5-6 yr cycle next gen and 360 succesor dont hit shelves til 2014 , , wii 3 will be on its heels ,

if your smart youd know that

plus i also think sonys busy with 3 handhelds lol ngp -which may be released in 2012 in the west, and the psp phone as well as a rumored tablet gamijng device and ps suite

all these things lead me to believe none of the others are coming up with one so soon as you are thinking,

the development of xbox720 hasnt even started they just started hirring people not to long ago ,it takes yrs unless ms is gonna rush again and face the same mistake they faced this gne with 360 repairs ,

the ps4 would be 1000 bucks at this point in time if it were to come out and no one i mean no ones putting 1000 unless their desperate on a console when pc will obviously surpass any console made no matter what year it is,

so either way nintendos in a win win situation

-causee

1 if sony and ms stick to their plan , wii 3 will come 3 yrs after 720 ps4 giving nintendo the chance to look over any mistake made by the 2 with their next consoles cause by that time wii 2 will be 6 yrs old ps4 and 720 depending whern they actually release could be a mear 2 -3 yrs old ,

2 the price of wii 2 will most likely be cheaper then ps4 720 , and its succesor who would probably boast on par levels or better would also be cheaper then them

4 by 2014 wii 2 will have this big gigantic library of games to choose from and maybe a price drop or to -2 yrs after its launch of course it will have games even 6 months after launch

so its a no brainer

while ps4 and 720 struggle to get games , and we know how bad ms is right now witho nly 36 exclusive 360 titles, its a far cry from sonys 57 and nintendos 52 , sony wouldnt be hurt but they wouldnt win either,

ms definat elly better pull everything they got for a dirt cheap price if they want to win next gen ,we already saw what happened this gen with 360 vs wii , and as they say the least powerful console always wins the war, if nintedo does come up with one of what your saying they have won basically cause theyll have the cheapest option ,

300 bucs is what im banking on for wii 2 could be 250 with a bundled game or somthing like wii 1 and 3ds ,

so its not a bad thing that wii 2 launches at or just above ps3 standards , see ps1 ps2 wii

these have all benifited from cheap prices -well not ps1 and 2 gc was cheaper ,but they have beenifited cause development cost are mu ch cheaper ,

wii 2 is said to be way more easier to develope for then a ps3 , or 360 that said , thats pretty good stuff for developers ,they have already shown the hard ware off to them to

so it should not hurt nintendo to do this no ones waiting til 2014 i guarantee you to get new hardware im sick of 360 myself as it is , and ps3 has not been anything like ps2 we all know this ,

and why are you even trying to start a console war here fears what fears theres nothing to fear you see 3ds es succesful sales , and profits (the later is more important to nintendo then the actual sales number cause 3ds has made them more profit on day one then ds has day 1 and sales are more of then wii was at launch at the same price)

nintendo is trying to get more 3rd party again

mariokart64fan

No they are most certainly not

So far the specs are barely above what was released 5 and 6 years ago, that means they will be behind yet again next generation and the only place you'll see multiplats from third party devs is elsewhere

They're going for the casual market and aiming towards the lowest common denominator when it comes to HD visuals and sound, that's it

it wont be a gc or a wii again ,

nintendo is trying to get more 3rd party again ,

and by doing a hd wii built from the ground up have better visuals then ps3 or 360 which seams likely

if nintendos agen behind thats most likely whats their gonna do is make a console on par or better then ps3

it may sound bad off paper but what can ms or sony even do to make a big j ump again ,

fact is big jumps from them wont happen for quite some time , 3 yrs into wii 2s life to be exact - they are running ps3 360 ten yrs , and will not stop simply cause wii 2 is out ,

they have already commited to that , microsoft has already said -not ot expect next xbox until end of 2013 possibly even 2014 , they dont think 360s reach its peak yet , kenict was thier halfway point basically ,

sony is busy with 3d compatbility and move ,to even think of a new console are you guys really expecting that big of a ju mp in graphics in 2012 i dont think so ,

your not gonna get one for quite some time at least not at an afordable price,

if they do rele ase a 720 or ps4 right now i t would cost 700-800 to even 900 dollars,

cause ps3 360 are still at a relitively high 300 buck price range , there no way the next xbox or ps4 will launch at 400 with these still on the market for their current prices

and nintendo will win easily cause wii 2 will be 250 -300 dollars , with bluray a possibility and hd screen o nthe already success of wii mote ads ds possibilties into the mix and better hardware means more better games like saints row gta etc ,

you think nintendos coming up short handed look at what ms said above,

if nintendo runs its normal 5-6 yr cycle next gen and 360 succesor dont hit shelves til 2014 , , wii 3 will be on its heels ,

if your smart youd know that

plus i also think sonys busy with 3 handhelds lol ngp -which may be released in 2012 in the west, and the psp phone as well as a rumored tablet gamijng device and ps suite

all these things lead me to believe none of the others are coming up with one so soon as you are thinking,

the development of xbox720 hasnt even started they just started hirring people not to long ago ,it takes yrs unless ms is gonna rush again and face the same mistake they faced this gne with 360 repairs ,

the ps4 would be 1000 bucks at this point in time if it were to come out and no one i mean no ones putting 1000 unless their desperate on a console when pc will obviously surpass any console made no matter what year it is,

so either way nintendos in a win win situation

-causee

1 if sony and ms stick to their plan , wii 3 will come 3 yrs after 720 ps4 giving nintendo the chance to look over any mistake made by the 2 with their next consoles cause by that time wii 2 will be 6 yrs old ps4 and 720 depending whern they actually release could be a mear 2 -3 yrs old ,

2 the price of wii 2 will most likely be cheaper then ps4 720 , and its succesor who would probably boast on par levels or better would also be cheaper then them

4 by 2014 wii 2 will have this big gigantic library of games to choose from and maybe a price drop or to -2 yrs after its launch of course it will have games even 6 months after launch

so its a no brainer

while ps4 and 720 struggle to get games , and we know how bad ms is right now witho nly 36 exclusive 360 titles, its a far cry from sonys 57 and nintendos 52 , sony wouldnt be hurt but they wouldnt win either,

ms definat elly better pull everything they got for a dirt cheap price if they want to win next gen ,we already saw what happened this gen with 360 vs wii , and as they say the least powerful console always wins the war, if nintedo does come up with one of what your saying they have won basically cause theyll have the cheapest option ,

300 bucs is what im banking on for wii 2 could be 250 with a bundled game or somthing like wii 1 and 3ds ,

so its not a bad thing that wii 2 launches at or just above ps3 standards , see ps1 ps2 wii

these have all benifited from cheap prices -well not ps1 and 2 gc was cheaper ,but they have beenifited cause development cost are mu ch cheaper ,

wii 2 is said to be way more easier to develope for then a ps3 , or 360 that said , thats pretty good stuff for developers ,they have already shown the hard ware off to them to

so it should not hurt nintendo to do this no ones waiting til 2014 i guarantee you to get new hardware im sick of 360 myself as it is , and ps3 has not been anything like ps2 we all know this ,

and why are you even trying to start a console war here fears what fears theres nothing to fear you see 3ds es succesful sales , and profits (the later is more important to nintendo then the actual sales number cause 3ds has made them more profit on day one then ds has day 1 and sales are more of then wii was at launch at the same price)

mariokart64fan

[QUOTE="mariokart64fan"]

nintendo is trying to get more 3rd party again

Jaysonguy

No they are most certainly not

So far the specs ....

what specs? lol

What we do know at this point is Nintendo's stated business direction of the last seven or eight years, which is that "faster and flashier" hardware is a dead end and that untapped or undertapped markets are a primary focus.

Unless Nintendo has drastically changed their strategy in the last few months, then we really need to temper our speculation based on that strategy. They're not going to release something that's more expensive for consumers and for developers to make games on. They're also not going to focus their attention on the narrow market of dedicated gamers.

I think the only people who need to worry are the gamers who consider themselves "too old" for Nintendo's games now. But that's not really Nintendo's problem.

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

[QUOTE="mariokart64fan"]

nintendo is trying to get more 3rd party again

KBFloYd

No they are most certainly not

So far the specs ....

what specs? lol

From those involved saying it's slightly more powerful then current gen consoles elsewhere

I think it's not so much that Nintendo is "going hardcore", but they are attempting to make a console in which they can expand thier vision AND that third parties will want to develop for. If Nintendo can pull that off, and I believe they can IF these rumours are true, then they will have the next gen all wrapped up.

Personally Im not buying into these rumors. If they are true, who cares, as long as Nintendo doesnt go the rout of graphics over game play I'll be happy. But Im more than sure that this is just another rumor and that news sites such as ign are blowing this out of porportion.

[QUOTE="KBFloYd"]

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

No they are most certainly not

So far the specs ....Jaysonguy

what specs? lol

From those involved saying it's slightly more powerful then current gen consoles elsewhere

you mean the rumours from people you cant even name?

why even use the word specs?

[QUOTE="mariokart64fan"]

nintendo is trying to get more 3rd party again

Jaysonguy

No they are most certainly not

So far the specs are barely above what was released 5 and 6 years ago, that means they will be behind yet again next generation and the only place you'll see multiplats from third party devs is elsewhere

They're going for the casual market and aiming towards the lowest common denominator when it comes to HD visuals and sound, that's it

except that nintendos next system will probaly stay around till s the 360 and the PS3 does, assuming what Ive hearsd is true and that neither comaony (Microsoft and sony) is thinking about a new system for atleast 3 years.

[QUOTE="mariokart64fan"]

nintendo is trying to get more 3rd party again

Jaysonguy

No they are most certainly not

So far the specs are barely above what was released 5 and 6 years ago, that means they will be behind yet again next generation and the only place you'll see multiplats from third party devs is elsewhere

They're going for the casual market and aiming towards the lowest common denominator when it comes to HD visuals and sound, that's it

You've seen the specs?? You already know EXACTLY what Nintendo are planning? Nintendo will be behind yet again? I've got news for ya..Nintendo isn't competing with Microsoft and Sony anymore! Have you even been paying attention at all?? Where have you been this gen? Oh, that's right! You've been on the Gamespot message boards complaining the last DECADE!!

My only fear is how long I will have to wait to get the damned thing. I'm pooping for E3 already!!!! I have no worries and no negativity. It's Nintendo....and it will rock.

The end.

Okay so wii know have some idea that Nintendo will be creating a hardcore HD console. On paper it sounds like good and all, but

... I fear a repeat of the GAMECUBE again.

Gamecube = awesome power for its time, good 1st party games ......YET.... Horrible sales = EPIC FAIL

So yes, i want that HD but must admit its the casuals that saved nintendo this GEN.

Thoughts?

LESROU

The only way I would care about sales is if Nintendo had to go out of business. Other than that, I'd like to see this "Next Gamecube." I'm not one of those guys who thinks that a company i like doing well is a personal triumph.

I have no fears. Im willing to bet that the system will not have a hight fail rate and that it will have better 3rd party support. The games will be great. All we have to do is hope that 3rd party devs dont try to port their games from the 360 andPS3 to the Wii 2.

I really could care less how it sells as long as it has good games again like the GC/N64/SNES. I'm not going to lie, I hated the Wii, I want old Nintendo back.

Nintendo isn't going to change their tune entirely. Like others have said, they'll go about business as usual.

They will however... try to secure deals like they've needed to for the past 15 years. They've slowly but surely been working on it (working with companies that no one would've imagined them to work with). They're going to push for exclusives, and multiplats. If they'd accomplish this, I'd be sold (of course with upgrading the hardware).

THey've always been stuborn, but in a cut throat industry... who can blame them? They're slowly starting to realize that people like exclusives that aren't Nintendo games.

I understand their moto, being family friendly and all. I respect that as I get older. They just have to understand that families aren't always together. Maybe dad wants to play a game when the kids go to bed.

it wont be a gc or a wii again ,

nintendo is trying to get more 3rd party again ,

and by doing a hd wii built from the ground up have better visuals then ps3 or 360 which seams likely

if nintendos agen behind thats most likely whats their gonna do is make a console on par or better then ps3

it may sound bad off paper but what can ms or sony even do to make a big j ump again ,

fact is big jumps from them wont happen for quite some time , 3 yrs into wii 2s life to be exact - they are running ps3 360 ten yrs , and will not stop simply cause wii 2 is out ,

they have already commited to that , microsoft has already said -not ot expect next xbox until end of 2013 possibly even 2014 , they dont think 360s reach its peak yet , kenict was thier halfway point basically ,

sony is busy with 3d compatbility and move ,to even think of a new console are you guys really expecting that big of a ju mp in graphics in 2012 i dont think so ,

your not gonna get one for quite some time at least not at an afordable price,

if they do rele ase a 720 or ps4 right now i t would cost 700-800 to even 900 dollars,

cause ps3 360 are still at a relitively high 300 buck price range , there no way the next xbox or ps4 will launch at 400 with these still on the market for their current prices

and nintendo will win easily cause wii 2 will be 250 -300 dollars , with bluray a possibility and hd screen o nthe already success of wii mote ads ds possibilties into the mix and better hardware means more better games like saints row gta etc ,

you think nintendos coming up short handed look at what ms said above,

if nintendo runs its normal 5-6 yr cycle next gen and 360 succesor dont hit shelves til 2014 , , wii 3 will be on its heels ,

if your smart youd know that

plus i also think sonys busy with 3 handhelds lol ngp -which may be released in 2012 in the west, and the psp phone as well as a rumored tablet gamijng device and ps suite

all these things lead me to believe none of the others are coming up with one so soon as you are thinking,

the development of xbox720 hasnt even started they just started hirring people not to long ago ,it takes yrs unless ms is gonna rush again and face the same mistake they faced this gne with 360 repairs ,

the ps4 would be 1000 bucks at this point in time if it were to come out and no one i mean no ones putting 1000 unless their desperate on a console when pc will obviously surpass any console made no matter what year it is,

so either way nintendos in a win win situation

-causee

1 if sony and ms stick to their plan , wii 3 will come 3 yrs after 720 ps4 giving nintendo the chance to look over any mistake made by the 2 with their next consoles cause by that time wii 2 will be 6 yrs old ps4 and 720 depending whern they actually release could be a mear 2 -3 yrs old ,

2 the price of wii 2 will most likely be cheaper then ps4 720 , and its succesor who would probably boast on par levels or better would also be cheaper then them

4 by 2014 wii 2 will have this big gigantic library of games to choose from and maybe a price drop or to -2 yrs after its launch of course it will have games even 6 months after launch

so its a no brainer

while ps4 and 720 struggle to get games , and we know how bad ms is right now witho nly 36 exclusive 360 titles, its a far cry from sonys 57 and nintendos 52 , sony wouldnt be hurt but they wouldnt win either,

ms definat elly better pull everything they got for a dirt cheap price if they want to win next gen ,we already saw what happened this gen with 360 vs wii , and as they say the least powerful console always wins the war, if nintedo does come up with one of what your saying they have won basically cause theyll have the cheapest option ,

300 bucs is what im banking on for wii 2 could be 250 with a bundled game or somthing like wii 1 and 3ds ,

so its not a bad thing that wii 2 launches at or just above ps3 standards , see ps1 ps2 wii

these have all benifited from cheap prices -well not ps1 and 2 gc was cheaper ,but they have beenifited cause development cost are mu ch cheaper ,

wii 2 is said to be way more easier to develope for then a ps3 , or 360 that said , thats pretty good stuff for developers ,they have already shown the hard ware off to them to

so it should not hurt nintendo to do this no ones waiting til 2014 i guarantee you to get new hardware im sick of 360 myself as it is , and ps3 has not been anything like ps2 we all know this ,

and why are you even trying to start a console war here fears what fears theres nothing to fear you see 3ds es succesful sales , and profits (the later is more important to nintendo then the actual sales number cause 3ds has made them more profit on day one then ds has day 1 and sales are more of then wii was at launch at the same price)

mariokart64fan

The problem with your theory is that developers are making most of their games multiplat. So what if the new Nintendo is somewhat more powerful than the the HD systems? Developers will use that and put games on all 3 systems. People might complain like they do now with the wii. People get tired of PS2 quality games being put on Wii when the system is capable of much more. There was quite a bit of last gen porting to the wii in its first year and a half. Why buy a Nintendo to play GTA 5 when I can play the exact same thing on a console I already have? Just because a system has a good amount of power over the competetiion does not mean developers will use it. I will state one again, the Wii has capabilites higher than PS2 or GC, but 80% of the games on the set don't push the system. This big exclusive library you are talking about might not turn out like you think it will. Games like De Blob and No More Heroes went multiplat when they had no reason to.

I hope Nintendo does strengthen its third party support, but I don't see developers flocking to the big N to make exclusives. Nintendo getting back into hardware just means more multiplatforming.

Mario with Gears of War graphics... its scary to even think about it! Luckily power does not equal art style :)

It won't fail like the Gamecube.

Nintendo caught the Casuals with the Wii when it launched, Then Started bringing out Bridge Titles from Casual to Hardcore and now they're going all out.

That is if the Rumors are true.

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

Also I want to point out that their next console wont be that powerful, slightly more powerful then the other consoles released 5 and 6 years ago isn't that powerful

robbie80

Only the Xbox uses DirectX, as it is a Microsoft product. But I get what you're saying I would like something equivalent to a DX11 PC GPU.

I personally fear 2 things about Cafe:

1) It will be overloaded with FPS like XBOX 360. Sony and Nintendo have usually managed to have a more widespread variety of games, and appeal to a wider audience. I can play CoD and Battlefield, I can't play those type of games forever.

2) Nintendo will get rid of motion controls. With all these rumors about the controller, there's never been a confirmation of the return with motion controls. I'd rather shift my camrea view with a simple point at the screen than have two analog sticks going at once.

Nintendo is making a console for casuals and children

Nintendo was built on that direction and they will always follow that path

Jaysonguy

My big fear is that the new console will lack great online support and we'll have more of this friend code nonsense. netsboy09

My only fear is how long I will have to wait to get the damned thing. I'm pooping for E3 already!!!! I have no worries and no negativity. It's Nintendo....and it will rock.

The end.

Darth-Samus

I seriously can NOT wait for E3 this year. June 7th, right?!

... I fear a repeat of the GAMECUBE again.

LESROU

So do I. But it's not the power of the machine. It's the idea of aiming to please third parties. Nintendo does considerably better when they do things their own way, not the third parties' way.

Then again, all we have are rumours. Some of them don't even make sense when you put them together because they contradict each other.

I seriously can NOT wait for E3 this year. June 7th, right?!

iPodGuy12

June 7th. I'm all pumped for the announcements! Even without it, Nintendo have alot to offer on 3DS withSuper Mario, Resident Evil Revelations and AR games,and Wii with Zelda Skyward Sword, The Last Story and Kirby.

They are going to steal this show.

know fear here soo I say get you some Nintendo and hardcore is the way to go.

Personally Im not buying into these rumors. If they are true, who cares, as long as Nintendo doesnt go the rout of graphics over game play I'll be happy. But Im more than sure that this is just another rumor and that news sites such as ign are blowing this out of porportion.

Gamingclone

Nintendo's next gen console should have both good graphics and gameplay.

Nintendo should have its next system be like the Dreamcast. The hardware should be capable of running next gen software, but not to the extent of the other systems. If Nintendo does this, then it may get some multplat games that may otherwise not have been on the system at all. Nintendo won't be that far behind the times and no one will complain about it.

I think I read somewhere that Nintendo wants to get more 3rd party support, so that means Nintendo may seek to get more 3rd party games for their next console so it does not end up like the Gamecube.

A fear I have is that it won't be powerful enough. I fear that it'll be like the Wii, only slightly more powerful than the previous generation meaning it misses out on multi-platform games that the other systems get. I hope that it is significantly more powerful than this generation so that it doesn't miss out on a lot of great multi-platform games (e.g. The Bioshock games).fabz_95

I have no fears. Im willing to bet that the system will not have a hight fail rate and that it will have better 3rd party support. The games will be great. All we have to do is hope that 3rd party devs dont try to port their games from the 360 andPS3 to the Wii 2.

Gamingclone

I think it's pretty obvious that this will happen, developers love easy ports. The good side to this is it will build up the library pretty quickly, and would make launch much better, even if it is just an enhanced PS3/360 game. Also these rumors are saying the system is "significatly" more powerful than the PS3, not slighlty. Now what exactly significantly means is up to debate (assuming these rumors are true at all) but it could be much more powerful. It's possible when Sony and Microsoft launch there new consoles the graphics gap won't be as different. Also the few years the system will enjoy as the most powerful console on the market with hopefully some of the Wii's huge userbase upgrading it's possible the system could be very sucessful. However as we don't really know anything about the system it's kind of hard to speculate.

Nintendo will never be hardcore. Technically, aside from publishing both of Treasure's Sin & Punishment games, they've never released anything truly hardcore, either.

Nintendo will never be hardcore. Technically, aside from publishing both of Treasure's Sin & Punishment games, they've never released anything truly hardcore, either.

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