Nintendo is, unintentionally, destroying the game industry ...

Before you start flaming hear me out, this has nothing to do with x360/ps3 vs Wii or something. It has to do with the sales of some of the games released on the Wii/DS.

I understand the Wii/DS have opened a new door, the one that reaches out to non-gamers while still satisfying the hardcore group, but that new door is also the reason. To satisfy the new crowd they brought out packs of mini-games or games that not even remotely come close to what we know as a ''game''.

Let's asume you're a developer, after 4 years of hard work, programming, tweaking and all the other stuff which are probaly time consuming aswell you release the game on the market and sell a couple of million copies. That's great, right? Yup. Let's say that game is GTAIV.

Now let's asume that same week another game that took 3 developers 1 week of programming hops by and outsells you twice. How would that feel? Yes, very fvcked up. Let's asume that game is Wii Play/Wii Sport/Brain Training/Wii Fit, I could go on.

The trend was started by Nintendo and there are other developers just doing the same thing. Now this wouldn't even be an issue if the Wii didn't outsell the X360 and PS3 combined, lol. See where I'm heading? It demotivates developers. The've put sweet into their work just to see it getting demolished by some by some game that's nothing but a copy from those games in the back of your newspaper.

In the longrun, it'll only get worse and worse. So, who's fault is it? Obviously Nintendo. You can be inovative without special features, just look at Echochrome, Patapon, EndWar, Mario Galaxy, but Nintendo has lately only invested in mini-games and promoted them. Just look which games Nintendo commercials usually display .. It's always Nintendogs, Brain Training, Eye sight this and that, they started this trend.

Why would you want to risk expressing your ideal in a game in the hope of having alot of people enjoy it, which will take you years of developing, when you can just lean back and achieve the same with some **** Sudoki mini-****-game?

Edit: Message edited to censor a couple of four letter words. A message from the mods.

It's not destroying it, it's transforming it. Don't you remember the term Nintendo Revolution? And about the developers, they just have to come out with new ideas and adapt to this new market.Thiago26792

How, by making Halo 4 a chain of mini-games?

Uh, you do know that Nintendo made Mario Galaxy, right?

Secondly, I don't think any game has outsold GTA4. Even if Wii Play did, the game costs ten bucks.

This is the time for developers to truly test their integrity. You have some (Ubisoft) who bow down to this casual "trend" and make crap. You have others (Epic) who flame it and call it a baby's toy. Then you have the great ones. You have people who understand the risks in making games for the Wii, but do it anyways because they know there's Wii owners out there who would enjoy it. These are your SUDA 51's, your Platinum Games. This is the time for people who cannot change and ultimately seek to only meet the status quo and garner a profit to die out. This is where games will become art. Some will fall, but in the end, things will return to balance.

Besides, shovelware sells like crap on the Wii, if I'm not mistaken.

considering nintendo has dropped every heavy hitter hardcore game in the last 18 months with first level quality dev teams you can hardly blame them... These titles sell well because they're actually damn good... It's the 3rd party people like Ubisoft who don't want to put quality titles on the wii considering that crap redsteel sold over a million copies proving them wrong about a pure casual market.

[QUOTE="Thiago26792"]It's not destroying it, it's transforming it. Don't you remember the term Nintendo Revolution? And about the developers, they just have to come out with new ideas and adapt to this new market.JimKilly

How, by making Halo 4 a chain of mini-games?

No, by finding a way to sell their games better, while pleasing both hardcore and casual gamers. If they start releasing only shovelware, then hardcore gamers would stop buying games and the industry would fall.

I know Nintendo made Mario Galaxy, seirously who doesn't. Same for Metroid Prime, SSB, etc the're all great games, but the Wii Play, Wii Sport, Brain Training, Raving Rabbits stuff, etc are all selling just as good. It demotivates developers. Why would the game industry collapse if the hardcore didn't buy the games anymore, lol, don't be naive. Nintendo shows there's a market outthere that makes us obsolete.

Just do the simple math. (Wii-owners) minus (Gamecube owners + some new believers (take a couple % I guess)) = % Mini-game players = your mom, granny, your 6 year-old-sisther are what make the NEW foundation of the game-market.

Nintendo isn't destroying anything. If you want something that is destroying the industry, it's games like shooters or sandbox. Gamers today all they want is more shooters and sandbox. I heard that GTA IV is the best game ever. For me, it's overrated like Halo or Call of Duty. I'm angry to see games like Shadow of the Colossus and even Okami being ignored because gamers today want shooters. If it doesn't have guns or violence, it sucks.

People were frustrated because Capcom didn't bring Resident Evil or Street Fighter on Wii and will bring Spyborgs which it's made by former employees of Insomniac. I can guess Ratchet & Clank sucked because of Spyborgs.

As for casual gaming, casual games was always there. Games like Tetris or Pac-Man are casual games. Sudoku or any mental games like Brain Age were there before they are virtual. Animal sims were there. It was called Tamaguchi. Nintendo isn't destroying anything.

I know Nintendo made Mario Galaxy, seirously who doesn't. Same for Metroid Prime, SSB, etc the're all great games, but the Wii Play, Wii Sport, Brain Training, Raving Rabbits stuff, etc are all selling just as good. It demotivates developers. Why would the game industry collapse if the hardcore didn't buy the games anymore, lol, don't be naive. Nintendo shows there's a market outthere that makes us obsolete.

Just do the simple math. (Wii-owners) minus (Gamecube owners + some new believers (take a couple % I guess)) = % Mini-game players = your mom, granny, your 6 year-old-sisther are what make the NEW foundation of the game-market.

JimKilly

Basically, you're insecure. Video games is not a niche industry anymore and you must understand that.

You know that Microsoft is trying to get the market with XBLA. In fact, you should compare the XBLA library and the DS library. It's very similar if you're asking me. XBLA is full of puzzle games like Puzzle Quest and you complain about that on DS or on Wii.

I've heard this argument before.

1) You know where the real issue is? These guys don't actually bother to market their games. And yet they still blame Nintendo. If these games really are that good...then there should be a market for them that reflects that. If Nintendo can sell snow to eskimos (or Wii-fit to peoeple perfectly inshape) then nothing is stopping other publishers selling ANYTHING. They only have their own lack of innovation and marketing tact to blame for not getting 10x or more the sales figures they are.

2) They said the same thing about the Sony Playstation (and as far as I am concerned it did mess up the games industry)

Companies like EA are destroying gaming. Releasing 4 games in 4 years making more generic gaming expierences. Anyone who buys guitar hero games are destroying the music industry, and there is how many guitar hero games in like what 4 years. There are how many call of duty and medal of honor, and brothers in arms games. Look at the FPS genre all together. There are 10 crappy FPS to every 1 good one.

I;m not going to keep going because you can say that anyone is destroyin gaming. Nintendo has been making consoles longer then anyone else, and their first party games are ALWAYS AMAZING. 3rd parties are putting alot of shovelware out for the Wii, but the same happens to the 360 and PS3, atleast nintendo tries to do something different with thier console unlike xbox and PS who just want to be a water-down PC

Nintendo isn't destroying anything. If you want something that is destroying the industry, it's games like shooters or sandbox. Gamers today all they want is more shooters and sandbox. I heard that GTA IV is the best game ever. For me, it's overrated like Halo or Call of Duty. I'm angry to see games like Shadow of the Colossus and even Okami being ignored because gamers today want shooters. If it doesn't have guns or violence, it sucks.

People were frustrated because Capcom didn't bring Resident Evil or Street Fighter on Wii and will bring Spyborgs which it's made by former employees of Insomniac. I can guess Ratchet & Clank sucked because of Spyborgs.

As for casual gaming, casual games was always there. Games like Tetris or Pac-Man are casual games. Sudoku or any mental games like Brain Age were there before they are virtual. Animal sims were there. It was called Tamaguchi. Nintendo isn't destroying anything.

chris3116

[QUOTE="chris3116"]

Nintendo isn't destroying anything. If you want something that is destroying the industry, it's games like shooters or sandbox. Gamers today all they want is more shooters and sandbox. I heard that GTA IV is the best game ever. For me, it's overrated like Halo or Call of Duty. I'm angry to see games like Shadow of the Colossus and even Okami being ignored because gamers today want shooters. If it doesn't have guns or violence, it sucks.

People were frustrated because Capcom didn't bring Resident Evil or Street Fighter on Wii and will bring Spyborgs which it's made by former employees of Insomniac. I can guess Ratchet & Clank sucked because of Spyborgs.

As for casual gaming, casual games was always there. Games like Tetris or Pac-Man are casual games. Sudoku or any mental games like Brain Age were there before they are virtual. Animal sims were there. It was called Tamaguchi. Nintendo isn't destroying anything.

Nintendo_Ownes7

Hammer was cancelled, get with the program. Besides, the game didn't look good at all.

[QUOTE="Thiago26792"]It's not destroying it, it's transforming it. Don't you remember the term Nintendo Revolution? And about the developers, they just have to come out with new ideas and adapt to this new market.JimKilly

How, by making Halo 4 a chain of mini-games?

Super Halo Ball: Machinegun Blitz!

[QUOTE="Nintendo_Ownes7"][QUOTE="chris3116"]

Nintendo isn't destroying anything. If you want something that is destroying the industry, it's games like shooters or sandbox. Gamers today all they want is more shooters and sandbox. I heard that GTA IV is the best game ever. For me, it's overrated like Halo or Call of Duty. I'm angry to see games like Shadow of the Colossus and even Okami being ignored because gamers today want shooters. If it doesn't have guns or violence, it sucks.

People were frustrated because Capcom didn't bring Resident Evil or Street Fighter on Wii and will bring Spyborgs which it's made by former employees of Insomniac. I can guess Ratchet & Clank sucked because of Spyborgs.

As for casual gaming, casual games was always there. Games like Tetris or Pac-Man are casual games. Sudoku or any mental games like Brain Age were there before they are virtual. Animal sims were there. It was called Tamaguchi. Nintendo isn't destroying anything.

santiagochile

Hammer was cancelled, get with the program. Besides, the game didn't look good at all.

[QUOTE="Thiago26792"]It's not destroying it, it's transforming it. Don't you remember the term Nintendo Revolution? And about the developers, they just have to come out with new ideas and adapt to this new market.JimKilly

How, by making Halo 4 a chain of mini-games?

Nintendo dont make Halo, Bungie do. If Halo did become like that, it would be Bungie's fault. Just like how Ubisoft have turned Rayman into minigames. Dont get the pre-occupation with blaming Nintendo for everything.

Secondly, Bungie wouldnt need to turn Halo into minigames to sell them. In fact it would sell worse if they did that. Shovelware doesnt sell, I thought people would have figured that out by now. Sadly, developers like Ubisoft havent learned that either.

About the Project H.A.M.M.E.R thing

"One of Famitsu's September 2007 issues reported that the game has been cancelled. Despite this report however, Claude Comair, CEO of Nintendo Software Technologies and Founder of the DigiPen Institute of Technology, stated in a talk with his students at the beginning of the Fall 2007 semester that he and NST were still currently working on Project H.A.M.M.E.R."

^ from Wikipedia.

I agree with the op, nintendo and wii are just simply **** I feel sorry for anyone who considers wii a gaming console.Solid_Snake300

Companies like EA are destroying gaming. Releasing 4 games in 4 years making more generic gaming expierences. Anyone who buys guitar hero games are destroying the music industry, and there is how many guitar hero games in like what 4 years. There are how many call of duty and medal of honor, and brothers in arms games. Look at the FPS genre all together. There are 10 crappy FPS to every 1 good one.

I;m not going to keep going because you can say that anyone is destroyin gaming. Nintendo has been making consoles longer then anyone else, and their first party games are ALWAYS AMAZING. 3rd parties are putting alot of shovelware out for the Wii, but the same happens to the 360 and PS3, atleast nintendo tries to do something different with thier console unlike xbox and PS who just want to be a water-down PC

da_chub

We have a winner!

I agree with the op, nintendo and wii are just simply **** I feel sorry for anyone who considers wii a gaming console.Solid_Snake300

I feel sorry for anyone too ignorant and small minded to appreciate something new and different.

Sorry but I disagree with your point of view because you are not considering how the market is moving. Let me explain!

On one hand, you have the developers that launch those piece of cake games with low quality standards (in majority of cases with the mini games approach). Bytheway, it´s a disgrace that Wii have many of these low profile companies. On the other hand, you have those companies that bring us high standards games (good graphics, sound, replay value, gameplay, etc).

With these two branches serving the market the battle begins. STOP!!! There is not battle here, because the low standards companies have one target (casual gamers - I do not like "the gamer's classification") while the worthy ones go for Hardcore or more serious gamers. It's true that sometimes the casual gamers get an adventurous mood and buy a hardcore game and viceversa. With all these I can't see a conflict point between good developers and junk developers, each group serves/supplies a different market (demand/consumer)!!

Now, is Nintendo destroying the game industry? Nope. In fact, it's extending the market. Nintendo is the unique company that it's bringing to the videogames party those who never in their life where expecting to play wideogames . Moreover, the idea is that many of these non-gamers or casual gamers envolve trough the time and become serious - hardcore gamers.

Finally, I believe that those who are destroying the game industry and annoying serious Wii gamers are the third party developers who have lost the good taste, hard work philosophy and have become cowards towards big games projects. It's frustrating because during N64 and GCN age, these fellas argued that they weren't developing big projects for the minimun base of players that those consoles had. Nowadays, Wii is number one in selling and had a considerable base of players and in addition, it opens a broad creatitity path with the applications that can be given to its controller. Rains of blood, gore and mature themes are not necessary for an excellent game. So what is happenig with 3rd party developers!!!

Before you start flaming hear me out, this has nothing to do with x360/ps3 vs Wii or something. It has to do with the sales of some of the games released on the Wii/DS.

I understand the Wii/DS have opened a new door, the one that reaches out to non-gamers while still satisfying the hardcore group, but that new door is also the reason. To satisfy the new crowd they brought out packs of mini-games or games that not even remotely come close to what we know as a ''game''.

Let's asume you're a developer, after 4 years of hard work, programming, tweaking and all the other stuff which are probaly time consuming aswell you release the game on the market and sell a couple of million copies. That's great, right? Yup. Let's say that game is GTAIV.

Now let's asume that same week another game that took 3 developers 1 week of programming hops by and outsells you twice. How would that feel? Yes, very fvcked up. Let's asume that game is Wii Play/Wii Sport/Brain Training/Wii Fit, I could go on.

The trend was started by Nintendo and there are other developers just doing the same thing. Now this wouldn't even be an issue if the Wii didn't outsell the X360 and PS3 combined, lol. See where I'm heading? It demotivates developers. The've put sweet into their work just to see it getting demolished by some by some game that's nothing but a copy from those games in the back of your newspaper.

In the longrun, it'll only get worse and worse. So, who's fault is it? Obviously Nintendo. You can be inovative without special features, just look at Echochrome, Patapon, EndWar, Mario Galaxy, but Nintendo has lately only invested in mini-games and promoted them. Just look which games Nintendo commercials usually display .. It's always Nintendogs, Brain Training, Eye sight this and that, they started this trend.

Why would you want to risk expressing your ideal in a game in the hope of having alot of people enjoy it, which will take you years of developing, when you can just lean back and achieve the same with some shi-tty Sudoki mini-shi^t-game?

JimKilly

Sorry but I disagree with your point of view because you are not considering how the market is moving.

huntervaneg

If someone asks, I disagree with the point of view of the fella who open this topic.