Nintendo should have made a real console

Sony and Microsoft's gaming divisions are suffering financially, yet Nintendo has $13 billion in net assets, yet they somehow can't develop and sell a real next gen powerful console with a traditional controller? I just don't get it. They have the money, a substantial fanbase, tons of first party IP's and a 30-year legacy in the industry.

In my opinion, they could have made a console exactly like the PS4 (or even better), with their first party games, and could have retained and attracted plenty of third party support. Without the need for going into debt like Sony does.

It's frustrating. Nintendo has the money, resources, experience and talent to make it happen, but instead they are trying too hard to be innovative, and it's NOT working.

Anyone else share my sentiments? I mean, they can and should easily be the top dog, even against the PS4 and Xbox One. They could have had the most superior hardware and the best multiplatform games, without going into debt.

It's a really complicated issue. Sony and Microsoft can take the risks of selling expensive consoles and not gaining much profit out of them because both of those companies are much larger than gaming. Unlike those two companies, Nintendo only depends on video games. Nintendo has so much money because they were most profitable last generation, but now they're not up to date with current hardware. Nintendo was not ready to make the jump to current hardware because they're not used to using last gen hardware (which they're currently using now). A more powerful console would not have solved all of their problems, though. Nintendo has had a rough relationship with third party developers since the N64 days, and they're still sort of behind in online support. Making the jump from Wii to a console that's as powerful as the competition could have made their situation much worse because the Wii U would have been more expensive and the first party titles would have taken a much longer time to develop.

@nep321a:

Someone doesn't have a brain. You honestly believe that power is what makes a system "next gen" FALSE. Next Gen means its the NEXT DAMN SYSTEM PERIOD. Which of the 3 will have the most 1080p and 60fps games by Christmas? Exactly Wii U, I'm not even defending Nintendo cause frankly I am not happy with them at all. But facts are facts. Wii U is NOT "Weak" It can run any 3rd party multiplat the other 2 can, sure it would need to be tweeked and it would be lowered SLIGHTLY but please stop listening to f-ing idiots like Patcher who no nothing. Wii U has more power then people think.

That's irrelevant. The perceived power of the Wii U is that it's substantially inferior to the other two consoles.

I think the thought of a "real" console is more appropriate for System Wars and this thread should belong there as well.

@nep321a: OP I think you raise a very good question. With the profit and experience they have, Nintendo would really benefit from doing something and anything to stay on the cutting-edge of the video game industry. When you specialize in a field, you really should aim to be one of the greatest in that field. When I go into a Dick's sporting goods store, I'd better be able to find a much nicer variety of sporting goods than I would if I were to walk into a Wal-Mart.

It would be fantastic if Nintendo would release a powerful game system. But I think Animeguy is hitting a really good point here.

Nintendo is in its own personal vicious cycle right now. The company is behind technology-wise, still trying to play catch-up to the other guys. And by the time the workers do catch up somewhat, their competitors are already starting to push the envelope even further.

Another thing that I haven't heard people mention as much, is that a lot of the longtime developers and programmers at Nintendo are getting older, and passing on the ropes to the younger workers. It falls on the new generation of developers at Nintendo to learn from their superiors, and at the same time catch up to modern techniques.

I think the situation really isn't that bad though, if you're a forward-thinking type of person.

The 'jumps' in graphical power have gotten less and less noticeable with each new console gen. The jumps are very nice, and when you look at last gen versus current gen you can appreciate those leaps. But in the bigger picture, graphical power is going to become less and less of an issue over the next decade or so.

So what happens when developers hit a brick wall, and graphical power plateaus?

Nintendo probably won't look like such an unworthy alternative to the competition for the spoiled masses anymore. And maybe they will even win some people over if they continue to be imaginative.

So the WiiU is just a figment of our imaginations?

They have a "traditional controller". The Gamepad has everything your usual controller would have, plus many other features. Then, there's the Pro Controller.

And you know this, how? Even if they made a console more powerful than the competitors, that doesn't guarantee success. The GC was more powerful than the PS2, N64 was more powerful than the PS1, yet none of that mattered. Powerful hardware is also expensive. In order to sell it for a price that the average consumer could justify, they would likely need to take a loss.

You're making the assumption that more power = success, which isn't true. Many other factors play in that you're not considering.

This may be locked. Seems like something that should be in SW.

A real console = exactly what two other companies are doing. I see. That sounds really interesting.

The more powerful consoles get, the longer we need to wait between releases for Nintendo's top tier games. It's bad enough with the WiiU; I can't imagine the droughts if Nintendo's console were more powerful than the PS4.

Iwata on stage at e3: "Here is our new console. It is powerful. Our game will be released in seven years. Please understand."

Nah, I rather have good games. The wii was crap hardware wise but had ton of games I wanted to play. Wii U needs to catch up, the disparity will only get worse as third parties get rolling on other platforms.

^^

That's only because of Nintendo's ineptitude. If they keep up with the times and prepare themselves for new games and hardware like you'd expect from one of the leading companies in the industry, that wouldn't be a problem. Just sayin'. Wii U is a powerful little console, i'm happy with what it is. It's in another league than last gen consoles.

I'm still gawking at tropical freeze, that game and Pikmin 3 started out as Wii games, so it's going to get a lot better yet.

the gamepad i just like normal controller...gawd people are stubborn fools or dont own a wiiu.

about the power....nintendo still wouldnt get all the 3rd party games...it might of got more...but it would still miss out on quite a few...just look at the gamecube.and look at nintendos first party games...do you really thinking upping the specs would make mario 3d world ten times better? or donkey kong tropical freeze would have scored a 9?

i doubt it.

look at the wii....it was very basic yet outsold the playstation......no one cares about normal controllers....

i think nintendo should have stuck with the wiimote and increased the power(just to shut people up)...wiiU is too expensive and abandons all the casuals by ditching the wii remote....plus mario kart or brawl should be out by now.

theres amillion hings nintendo could do right now to make the wiiu better but they dont want to. :\

The problem is that they don't have the experience.

Jordan pointed out the problem up there. Nintendo is taking a long time to make Wii U software and that's partially due to the fact that they don't know how to utilize it's power.

Now granted, the Wii U is weak and because of that it's at it's peak right now as far as third party. It's only going to get worse as more and more games become more complex and run stronger engines.

But while it's weak it's still stronger than anything Nintendo's in house devs have worked with and they're not teams that can really turn that extra power into anything right now. They're the teams that made Mario Galaxy look good but with that extra power now? They can make Mario look a bit shinier, give his overalls a bit more of a cloth look, but nothing mind blowing.

Nintendo is a lot like Apple. A company that makes hardware well below current specs and has in house designers who know how to make more with less.

So it's not really fair to say that if Nintendo had a console with more horsepower everything would be fine. Personally I think it would be because the Wii U would be getting all third party content PLUS shiny Mario every now and then but you'd have to realize that third party games would blow first party games out of the water for a long stretch of time.

It is frustrating, because despite all of those, Nintendo lacks the one core element necessary to really capitalize on them: competency, of which they've shown a glaring lack of over the years. They're woefully incompetent and outdated in so many areas it's hard to watch. The Wii U's tech is not the sole reason they're lagging, though I think it could be argued that it further pushed 3rd parties away (well, further than Nintendo already has) and alienated a large gamer base that was desperate for new tech as evidenced by the tremendous sales of new systems with no games available pretty much.

What bothers me today most, and makes me believe Nintendo is in the situation they are is their attitude. It's so incredibly apathetic and "so what?". Since the U is doing so poorly, it literally feels like Nintendo has seen it's not catching on, so they're throwing their hands up, saying, "welp, this one didn't work, we'll have better luck next time" and then sit there and do the least amount of work and support for it until they can try again. It's like they expected it to skyrocket to stardom on its own accords and really didn't have any plan if it didn't, so when it didn't they just kind of sat there bewildered and confused, watching it slide down the wall.

Yes, there are games here and there but it all feels so half-assed, rehashed, and obligatory. No enthusiasm. No ambition. No drive or caring or that feeling of real Nintendo creativity. "It failed, let's move on ASAP while giving it scraps" is what I get. And some people wonder why it gets so many DOOM threads. Maybe because Nintendo itself sees it and seems to be treating it that way?

That's a fair assessment

Hard to energize any demographic when you're not energized yourself.

If there's one thing Nintendo isn't inept at, it's making actual games.

Let me clarify the underlying point I skimmed over for the sake of dumb humor.

Nintendo's in-house game development process is structured in such a way that the final product is as close to design potential as possible and polished to near perfection. They accomplish this through relatively small, tightly knit teams with clear, personal direction.

Nintendo's large-scale games like Zelda absolutely require this kind of structure to come out as respectable products on the other end. I don't think an Ubisoft-esque worldwide network of development houses could make a competent Zelda game, but that's probably the only way to make a contemporary, large-scale Zelda game in a reasonable amount of time.

So as the hardware gets more powerful, there are two options: either take years and years to make a game on the same scale we're used to, or reduce the scale of the game. 3D World feels a bit like the latter, and so does A Link Between Worlds (even though it's a 3DS game). Both are amazing games, but they're not on the grand scale we might expect from those franchises if we assume that they're always going to become bigger and grander with better hardware.

Well, I was thinking of something different, like you said you didn't talk in detail at first. You're right on all points.

I was thinking Nintendo is inept because they don't put out enough games fast enough, not that they don't make individual games fast enough. Since they know it takes so long to make these polished focused games, they need to have more studios making games so they don't have these terrible droughts that they always have. That's why the company is inept.

well the thing is getting destroyed sales wise by the other two consoles so maybe power does mean something

nah... its all 3rd party related...imo..no games(well 3rd party)

plus the name of the console is dumb....and people just call it a wii add on..

also...the price is an issue because the ps4 is just 100 more.

those 3 reasons

power doesnt matter. if your console is more popular then power wont matter...look at the wii and the ps2.

The Wii died in 2008, it ran on fumes and lead to Nintendo suffering huge losses.

Also first party on the two other consoles have outsold first party titles on the Wii U over the same period of time.

The difference is that when you're done playing first party games on the other consoles you have other games to play

The Wii U on the other hand had nothing, set a record for the longest time with no software in gaming history.

nintendo KILLED the wii after 2010...it didnt die on its own

xbox has not sold more 1st party than nintendo....hell sony only has 2 games out knack and killzone..i dont think it outsold ninty 1st party either....oh.. you mean over the same time period? maybe ps4 yes...because it sold more consoles in the same period...but not xbox

and yes one of the big reasons wiiU isnt selling is this. "when you're done playing first party games on the other consoles you have other games to play"

the Wii U has no 3rd party support because it can't handle the games...and yes the PS4 is JUST $100 more and has 10x the hardware I agree with you on that one

even if wiiu had the power it would still not get all the games.... it might of got more than it is now...but it would still miss many making it inferior to the other consoles anyway.

and it would cost even more... nintendo would be in a worse situation.

well right now its not even getting the basics...Fifa and Madden, no system is going to survive without those

what is your solution? Wii U is not going to have a long life cycle I would bet anything on it

Why can't we all just get along, get along, and sing kombayaaa till our lungs are sore?

my solution is hype mario kart and smash....lower the price to 250$ this christmas

thats all they can do...

but what nintendo should have done since back when the gamecube released was get every third party game like xbox did. get all the 3rd party games is their only way of beating sony...
otherwise they need a better gimmick like the wii was to be #1 again... or else settle for 2nd or 3rd place every gen.

They can only get that with horsepower

@nep321a:

I think the WiiU is a great console. The graphics are fine. The controller. Is innovative and you have the option of using a standard controller. And it's backwards compatible which is something the "Big 2" failed to incorporate into their systems.

In terms of power, I agree. For first party Nintendo games the Wii U is exactly as powerful as it needs to be.

yea...the gamecube should have started the trend...but they didnt...it was a missed opportunity ...they still missed a lot more 3rd party games in that era than xbox. still sold awful getting only 70% of the 3rd party games...nintendo just said screw it and made the wii.

I think a lot of the failures of the GCN can't just be laid solely at the feet of its power. Yea, it had comparable power, but Nintendo also moronically insisted on using proprietary mini-discs which held less information than the standard DVDs other systems were using at the time, required more royalties to 3rd publishers, not to mention the fact of the design aesthetic of the cube itself with its lunch box handle which didn't help its image of not being taken as a toy.

not sure on the royalties..but they could have made games with 2 or 3 discs...final fantasy and metal gear did it on ps1 no?

I thought about it today, The PS4/XB1 both allow six-cores CPU for game development and 5GB RAM, with 3GB RAM and 2 cores taken up by the OS. Nintendo typically puts ARM processors in their consoles to handle the OS. Now imagine if Nintendo had shipped the system with the Pro Controller instead of the gamepad, cutting $80 off its manufacturing costs from the start. They could have added $50 or so in hardware improvements, like maybe make the CPU Quad-Core, make the GPU closer to 1TF, put it 4GB-6GB RAM, etc and still come out around $299.

I'm fine with what we got but its crazy to think how much closer the U could be to the two other consoles had it not been for the Game Pad. Heck had Nintendo known people would be buying sold out Wii's for $300+ from 2006 until mid-2009 they could have gambled and bumped up the Wii's specs too.

@bonesawisready5:

They can not make the Wii U cpu any better than it is, it's a dead end design. First of all, it isn't even a true triple core, neither is the Xenon in the xbox 360. They both have one big core (in Wii U's case it is very similar to the Wii's Broadway) with 2 smaller cores for audio and other smaller tasks. The Xenon's core that is used for audio is completely used up with audio processes, and the 3rd core can't do much either.

Basically, they tacked on a few smaller cores to take the load off of the main core, but they are still in reality more like single core processors. (This is also true for the Ps3's CELL, it has one big core and a bunch of co processors)

Honestly, the Wii U cpu is a bit shit. Well, it can hold its own (and beat) against the Xenon and CELL in a lot of ways (except compute, i.e. physics), but it is not a modern chip in any way shape or form, and can't be compared to the CPU cores in the PS4, which also has massive GPU compute capabilities with its GPU, so there really was no catching up for Wii U unless they went for a completely modern CPU design and sprung for a powerful gpu.

The CPU in Xbox one and PS4 isn't cutting edge either, but at least it has 6 equal cores and a more modern design. The Wii U's cpu is still a capable chip for the rest of Wii U's components though, it'll get the job done. The Wii U is a very balanced console, even if it is underpowered (though it can still do a lot more than ps3 or 360 thanks to the gpu and memory)

Also, it's important to note that Nintendo had energy efficiency in mind - wii U uses around 30 watts, in comparison PS4 uses around 140.. Which is the biggest reason the Wii U is what it is.

^ yea they kinda went stupid over the energy efficiency stuff..if they'd wanted that they should have use a more modern cpu. :P

Doesn't get any more efficient than the Wii U cpu, it's probably the smallest CPU in a home console, ever. For a reason. :p

The Nintendo Wii U is a real console. But it is not a good enough console compared to Xbox one and Playstation 4. But make not mistake the Wii U is a real console. It is Nintendo 8th generation entry. But it is not really popular because it is not using up to date technology like PS4 and Xbox one. Wii U is a real console which would have been fine if it had been released in 2005. But in 2012 it was just not enough, plus poor marketing doomed the Wii U. But it is a real console never the Less.

Nintendo should have made a proper console with up to date tech. But they didn't now they must suffer for the next 4 to 5 years. So next time we see if Nintendo has learned from their mistakes. Until then the Wii U is as real is it gets for Nintendo.

Exactly how I feel word for word. Well....I don't really have a Wii U so I can't really make an assessment on the system itself, just the way Nintendo has handled it. Its the main problem I have with the way Iwata has been running the company after Hiroshi Yamauchi stepped down. After Wii's success, one would hope he'd be willing to push Nintendo back into being aggressive and competitive again. Create a console that is distinct in feature and power than what's provided by 360 and PS3 making it even more enticing for 3rd party devs to work with and consumers to buy. I think the main reason Wii U and Nintendo itself have been failing lately is because they DON'T think there's any competition out there so they can release any console and it will somehow work. IMO, Nintendo's current passive attitude is what gonna hurt them the most before Wii U time is up...

Not necessarily so, but it does provide better odds of them getting more third party games. At least having more third party games would help with the droughts...

This is my main problem and I agree. I don't like Iwata as a CEO, in fact (and I know people would come back with Wii/DS sales figures to contest this) I feel like him being appointed CEO is one of the worst things that has ever happened to Nintendo. Frankly, I think he's a complete wimp and just does not hold that alpha attitude that is necessary to sit at the head of a successful corporation. He's not a leader. He is not aggressive, he seems incapable of standing his ground, and runs whenever a challenge arises. What CEO on Earth comes out and says, "we're not good at competing"? That's just nuts. The reason Nintendo's incapable of competing is precisely because it's being run with such an attitude. They have every means available to them to put up one hell of a fight, and the worst part is, people buy up his kool-aid and believe him, apologizing for everything Nintendo does. I'm sure Sony and MS would KILL to have what Nintendo does. IPs, money, talent, their legacy. Yet Nintendo's still failing. To have so much available and still be losing only goes to demonstrate an insane degree of incompetency. You'd have to TRY to fail.

And to see that potential squandered at the hands of a defeatist man who continually displays such corporate cowardice (more than anything) is extremely hard to watch, especially as I really care for Nintendo as a company. I grew up with them, and I recall them being an vicious competitor that did not back down from a fight prior to Iwata. They threw their weight around. Yes, Yamauchi was a bully, but this is a business. Nice guys don't make good businessmen, and I think it's safe to say Iwata's too much of a nice guy. Plus he's no businessman, he's a game designer. How in God's name that automatically qualifies him as a CEO boggles my mind. He needs to go, but what's really worrisome is the man has been packing the board with his yes-men and demoting any that may threaten his reign. Nintendo's just bought back shares. Iwata uses Directs and his charisma to ingrain himself into the minds of gamers, so much so that they've come to believe that he IS Nintendo. These are all steps that will make it extremely difficult to remove him. And personally, I think that unless he and his cronies eventually go, Nintendo will not be around for that much longer.

I'm with you! Onwards Fusion DS and Terminal soldiers!

1.Actually, the PlayStation was more powerful than the N64, you've got it all wrong.

2.How is the PS2 weaker than the Game-Cube? It was able to play DVD's and even had graphics matching that of early Wii games.

3.Take note that the economy is changing as manufacturing and labor costs are increasing.

4.It also takes alot of money and effort to make a console able to render high graphics; that's why Nintendo partnered up with a third-party company to create the N64 without hassles.

5.Nintendo just wants to catch up to please the core gamers at the time. They never realized that the PS4 and the Xbox One would come out a year later, they thought it would long after.

If you are so inept that you can't use google to look up basic hardware specs, I can't help you. Nobody can help you.

I also agree with what you said. The graphics are actually much better than the PS3 and the Xbox 360. Not only that but most of the games on WiiU will run under 60 FPS and a resolution of full native 1080p HD, while the PS4 runs under 35 to 30 FPS and a resolution of full 1080 p or even 1080 i HD. Don't even mention the Xbox One with most games running under a resolution of full native 720 p HD! The lighting effects also are superior to that of PS4 and Xbox One, with some games like Mario Kart 8 and Super Mario 3D World being so great in lighting effects and graphics, that it looks like it was upscaled to 2K UHD or even 4K UHD!

The controller is actually much better than that of Microsoft *cough* lack of touchscreen *cough* and is actually not gimmicky than what most people think. Say you want to access a menu but you know if you pause the game and unpause it, you'll lose or get distracted. With the touchscreen, you can play the game and access menus without any interference. And if your wife or siblings or parents are hogging the TV, you can always play on the GamePad for continued gameplay. The WiiU Pro Controller is actually amazing and ergonomic, too bad it's not compatible with all games and you're stuck with the Wiimote instead *sigh*. And the buttons are layed out in a great way; PS4 still has the two joysticks together (at least the joysticks on the gamepad or even the Pro controller are divided by a touch screen or menu buttons. While XBoner 720 there has the menu button between the triggers (wtf) and no touchscreen at all.

While the hardware isn't quite powerful, it's still twice better than that of PS3 and Xbox 360. It even imitates how PS4 and the Xbox One perform such as using the GPU more than relying on the CPU to produce the game, but at a more weaker and less noticable state. Fortunately, Nintendo has allowed full compatibility for the Unity Engine to work for WiiU, meaning that developers won't have to change the coding at all or weaken their game to be played on WiiU, allowing you to experience the game just like you would on a PC. And speaking of PC, if hardware is all they care about, then get a freaking PC, don't use weak-ass baby consoles that can't produce games for crap!

Its online capabilities are even better than the PS4 and the Xbox One. It has Miiverse, Nintendo very own social network specifically used by gamers for gaming. Because nobody on Twitter or Facebook gives two craps about gaming acheivments *cough* Sony and Microsoft *cough*. There's even Nintendo TVii, which is an online service allowing you to view media using video-streaming services such as Netflix and YouTube, and even your own satellite or cable network while utilizing the gamepad to its fullest potential. Nintendo Network is Nintendo's own social and online network that allows you to use online for free, access online goodies seen nowhere else, and give you a protected account on your own console like a PC *cough* Sony *cough*. There's even other cool apps not seen in PS4 and Xbox One like video chatting with your gamepad or Google Street View.

Backwards compatibility is definitley the biggest advantage of the WiiU. Not only is it backwards compatible with Wii, it's also through NES, SNES, and even the N64 through Virtual Console. Just go to eShop and download those awesome titles that you played or never played in the 80's and 90's. With modern and customizable controls, enhanced resolution, and improved glitch/bug-free games, you will definitley love the games offered through virtual console like Super Mario Bros, The Legend of Zelda, Metroid, Earthbound, F-Zero, StarFox, Super Smash Bros., and many more. You can even download games from old handheld titles, WiiWare titles,and maybe Game-Cube titles in the near future.

I think System Wars would be a better place for a discussion of this topic but my opinion is I am just unhappy with the design of the consoles controller and their poor decisions in the market.

That's a nonsensical thing to say. The Wii U is capable of outputting graphics at a higher quality than xbox 360 and ps3, both of which are getting a large majority of the games coming out on ps4 and xbox one. The Wii U isn't getting third party titles because Nintendo gamers don't buy them on their consoles.

Ehhh

Devs already have engines for the 360 and PS3, it's more a case of just working with what you have