Seriously, What's the problem with waggle?

I'm sympathize with all us Wii owners that the controls could be far more precise than "waggle".

However, Zelda had "waggle" although I found it a fairly accurate waggle considering horizontal, vertical, and thrust slashes were mapped fairly well although just swinging the controller randomly could achieve the same motions.

But honestly, waggle > button pressing. Sure it's not 1:1 perfect, but a game with waggle doesn't make not want to buy a game. If the waggle works and at least responds well, heck, I'll take it.

So, what is your problem with waggle? Or does waggle not bother you?

I personally love the waggle in Twilight Princess. Shaking the remote to slash for me is just much more satisfying than simply pressing a button do slash. And also, shaking the nunchuck to instantly do a spin attack totally owns charging up a spin attack with B button on a GC controller.

And most of the times, waggle is just to replace a button, which usually works okay, or doesn't work much. It's not that big of a deal. Except when it actually uses the direction you swing in, then it has to work good or else.

I enjoy action-adventure games with a refined combat system. Not to say that games that I mean (God of War, Prince of Persia, Devil May Cry) have extrordinary combat systems, but they were sure as hell better than Twilight Princess'. That being said, the waggle just feels limited, and like an unwanted strain.

Basically, I'd rather button mash than waggle.

Yeah it's repetitive and junk but I have a question. How is 1:1 ever supposed to work? I'm not doubting the technology but the animation. Are they going to animate Link doing every sort of motion including stabbing yourself? If everything became FP I could understand. If they can get it work, that's great but I'm skeptical.josh1772

well at the controller level, wiimotion+ should get everythign sorted. from what ive read, there not adding 1 but 3 new sensors to the wiimote. to itll be able to tell with more accuracy what direction its pointed in, what angle its at and so fourth.

after that, its a case of taking the data from the controller and, through some incredibly crazy maths and programming, mapping all those motions to the model (or a particular mart of the model like the hand or arm).

weve seen primitive versions of it in wii sports (try baseball and give the wiimote a little movement...the bat will follow ure motions close to 1:1). with the extra sensors it should be able to map alot more complicated movements to the model.

i think 1:1 will come more into its own next gen though. chances are the wii2 will have improved sensors as well as enough horsepower to reallly go crazy with it.

[QUOTE="josh1772"]Yeah it's repetitive and junk but I have a question. How is 1:1 ever supposed to work? I'm not doubting the technology but the animation. Are they going to animate Link doing every sort of motion including stabbing yourself? If everything became FP I could understand. If they can get it work, that's great but I'm skeptical.osan0

well at the controller level, wiimotion+ should get everythign sorted. from what ive read, there not adding 1 but 3 new sensors to the wiimote. to itll be able to tell with more accuracy what direction its pointed in, what angle its at and so fourth.

after that, its a case of taking the data from the controller and, through some incredibly crazy maths and programming, mapping all those motions to the model (or a particular mart of the model like the hand or arm).

weve seen primitive versions of it in wii sports (try baseball and give the wiimote a little movement...the bat will follow ure motions close to 1:1). with the extra sensors it should be able to map alot more complicated movements to the model.

i think 1:1 will come more into its own next gen though. chances are the wii2 will have improved sensors as well as enough horsepower to reallly go crazy with it.

I'm just worried people are going to hype it up just to be disappointed that it wasn't what they thought it would it be. I really hope it works. I'm also doubting there will be Mario and Zelda games for Wii. I have this bad feeling they'll be moved to next gen.

[QUOTE="osan0"]

[QUOTE="josh1772"]Yeah it's repetitive and junk but I have a question. How is 1:1 ever supposed to work? I'm not doubting the technology but the animation. Are they going to animate Link doing every sort of motion including stabbing yourself? If everything became FP I could understand. If they can get it work, that's great but I'm skeptical.josh1772

well at the controller level, wiimotion+ should get everythign sorted. from what ive read, there not adding 1 but 3 new sensors to the wiimote. to itll be able to tell with more accuracy what direction its pointed in, what angle its at and so fourth.

after that, its a case of taking the data from the controller and, through some incredibly crazy maths and programming, mapping all those motions to the model (or a particular mart of the model like the hand or arm).

weve seen primitive versions of it in wii sports (try baseball and give the wiimote a little movement...the bat will follow ure motions close to 1:1). with the extra sensors it should be able to map alot more complicated movements to the model.

i think 1:1 will come more into its own next gen though. chances are the wii2 will have improved sensors as well as enough horsepower to reallly go crazy with it.

I'm just worried people are going to hype it up just to be disappointed that it wasn't what they thought it would it be. I really hope it works. I'm also doubting there will be Mario and Zelda games for Wii. I have this bad feeling they'll be moved to next gen.

well i dont expect another mario platformer for the wii. usually theres only one platformer per gen. but i do expect 1 more zelda for the wii before ninty move on. the N64 had two as did the GC. whether itll use wiimotion+ though is debateable but i hope it does.

as long as it works...it doesent bother me at all. it was grand in TP and the timed waggle combat in okami worked nicely too.osan0

The waggle combat in Okami was freaking awesome!!!! That's a good example of waggle done well. It actually works, and you have to time it instead of waggling randomly.

Waggle is the equivalent to pressing a button. I could've done any which motion I wanted and Link would do the same thing over and over again. I could stab myself with the remote, I could make sexual motions, I could attach the Wii remote to my lef and then bop it up and down...anything and the game would do the same thing over and over again. The nunchuk atleast tried to do something else but it was so unresponsive compared to the Wiimote they should've just switched the two around.

Games that need the Wii remote to do something use the Wii remote well. Games that don't need the Wii remote to do anything don't need to tack on useless waggling to justify the use of the Wii. Smash Bros. didn't do it, Tales of Symphonia isn't doing it, and many other games decided to just accept that motion sensing doesn't work for everything at the moment.

I always thought of waggle as a selling point not a demerit. When I heard about waggle I was like "wow thats cool I want that one".

If I didn't like waggle I really wouldn't have gotten a wii

Basically, I'd rather button mash than waggle.

Lyphe2k

What's the difference between spastic waggling and button mashing? :roll:

[QUOTE="Lyphe2k"]

Basically, I'd rather button mash than waggle.

clicketyclick

What's the difference between spastic waggling and button mashing? :roll:

[QUOTE="clicketyclick"][QUOTE="Lyphe2k"]

Basically, I'd rather button mash than waggle.

forgot_it

What's the difference between spastic waggling and button mashing? :roll:

Precisely. Replacing mashing with waggling isn't exactly a revolution. The IR pointing though is great and the tilt sensing is fun as well. But waggle has been a disappointment.

I was unimpressed that TP didn't even attempt to replicate your movement. Surely they could have made the game distinguish between at least horizontal and vertical slashes.

I dont mind waggling, but some games just over-utilize it as a control scheme. Twilight Princess was a game that used waggling, but mind you the game didnt have a complex battle system. No More Heroes, same thing, great controls but simple battle system.

Waggling is just so imprecise. When I played Marvel: UA, the game cant tell if I thrust forward with the Wii-mote or if I flicked it up. Hopefully, the Motion-Plus attachment will actually make waggle recognition a more viable control scheme.

I think its just that developers need to make sure that waggling is put in logically, and not as a way to capitlize on every niche that the Wii brings.

[QUOTE="Lyphe2k"]

Basically, I'd rather button mash than waggle.

clicketyclick

What's the difference between spastic waggling and button mashing? :roll:

I hate that god damn emoticon. Damnit it doesn't make your reply sound any smarter.

Ok, got that out of my system. The difference is that button mashing takes a lot less effort than shaking your wrist back and forth. May not seem like a big deal, but little things like that add up to how much you enjoy your game. I'm more comfortable pressing buttons to unleash an attack than rapidly shaking my wrist until the other guy dies. Plus, what kind of combo can you do with waggle? It's probably going to involve using the nunchuk, holding down buttons and then wagging both of your hand like an idiot. No thanks.

[QUOTE="clicketyclick"][QUOTE="Lyphe2k"]

Basically, I'd rather button mash than waggle.

Lyphe2k

What's the difference between spastic waggling and button mashing? :roll:

I hate that god damn emoticon. Damnit it doesn't make your reply sound any smarter.

You're right; the smartness level was already maxed out. :P

Ok, got that out of my system. The difference is that button mashing takes a lot less effort than shaking your wrist back and forth. May not seem like a big deal, but little things like that add up to how much you enjoy your game. I'm more comfortable pressing buttons to unleash an attack than rapidly shaking my wrist until the other guy dies. Plus, what kind of combo can you do with waggle? It's probably going to involve using the nunchuk, holding down buttons and then wagging both of your hand like an idiot. No thanks.

Lyphe2k

The point I was getting at is that button-mashing doesn't take skill and neither does waggle. It doesn't solve any problems nor does it make control more intuitive. Or responsive...

My biggest problem with waggle is that it's often less responsive than button pressing. And, that makes waggling frustrating. Pressing a button is simply an on/off and works 100% of the time.

The waggle in Super Mario Galaxy and Mario Kart were spot on. It worked everytime and didn't feel out of place. Sure, a button could've been used, but there was no downside to waggle. And, in the case of Mario Kart, waggle made it little easier to pull off wheelies.

Zack & Wiki waggle is excellent and makes the game more immerseive. But, when you do the music mini-games it simply sucks.

The waggle in Twilight Princess is a mixed bag. The sword waggling worked OK, but the nunchuk waggling and some of the waggle related special moves fail to work. Butting someone with my shield was out of the question because I could only get it to happen like 1/5 times.

The waggle in Okami for attacking is frustrating because it's so unresponsive. I know the people on the forums say there's a rhythm to it, but if it were a button I know I wouldn't have the same problem.

My biggest problem with waggle is that it's often less responsive than button pressing. And, that makes waggling frustrating. Pressing a button is simply an on/off and works 100% of the time.Skie7

Ehhh, you haven't played many bad games. :P Some games have weird button mapping that makes it difficult to pull off moves. Others have lag from when you push the button to when you execute the move on-screen, which is problematic. The 360's D-pad reportedly has some responsiveness issues. Most issues with pulling off moves seem to involve the analog stick though.

The waggle in Twilight Princess is a mixed bag. The sword waggling worked OK, but the nunchuk waggling and some of the waggle related special moves fail to work. Butting someone with my shield was out of the question because I could only get it to happen like 1/5 times.Skie7

That's actually a case of the controller being faulty rather than the implementation. The nunchuk's motion sensor is pretty notoriously poor. Many games have problems with it. You really have to jerk it around until you hear the motion sensor rattling inside to get it to register movement. Twilight Princess had a problem with it, Okami had a problem with it (as you pointed out), No More Heroes had a problem with it, to just name a few examples.

Z&W waggle was annoying at times. When I had to twist something that was horizontal, it was difficult to get it to go the way I wanted (and not slide back either.) Also, the motions are built right-handed. I frequently had to remove the wiimote off my wrist and switch it to my other hand so it would work properly. Music games are impossible for me too. I just can't do them.