Sometimes it seams like developers think the Wii is a gamecube

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Head_of_games

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#1 Head_of_games
Member since 2007 • 10859 Posts
Ok, first of all, I love Nintendo and i don't like trolling, but i really want to know the answer to this. Look at MOHH2. Great controls, Good Online (For Wii), great potential, but not quite great. There could have been much better online maps, and the single player could have been SO much longer. Honestly, the Wii is more powerfull and has more memory than the PS2 and the original Xbox, yet we really have yet to see a third-party game that couldn't have been on them besides the controls. If last gen could do Halo2 and GOW2, why haven't we seen anything like them on Wii? In fact, even first-party games have yet to wow me in the sense that GOW did with it's cutscenes. Luckily we have great gameplay , but why don't we have the deapth or graphics in third-party games?
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pro_gamer12345

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#2 pro_gamer12345
Member since 2006 • 1801 Posts
We can't have the graphics like PS3 and the 360 but I think Metroid Prime 3 graphics were good in it's own way. I do agree. Third Party developers never seem to make the game as long as First Party Developers would make them.
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timinator18

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#3 timinator18
Member since 2004 • 1559 Posts
i think they see the wii as more of a quick money maker than a hardcore console, so u get alot of ports and casual games, and less hardcore games that take advantage of the console
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Head_of_games

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#4 Head_of_games
Member since 2007 • 10859 Posts

We can't have the graphics like PS3 and the 360 but I think Metroid Prime 3 graphics were good in it's own way. I do agree. Third Party developers never seem to make the game as long as First Party Developers would make them. pro_gamer12345

Still, i don't think they weren't as good as God of War, a game that came out last!

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Dion4ever

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#5 Dion4ever
Member since 2008 • 680 Posts
I just think third party developers went on the wrong foot. You see they thought the Wii was not going to sell as good as the PS3 and Xbox 360. But now, some developers, like EA, are realizing that they should start developing for the Wii. A lot more developers will turn to the Wii also in the future and although they won't do the games as well as Nintendo, at least we still get more third party support.
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The-Great-One99

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#6 The-Great-One99
Member since 2008 • 147 Posts
The wii is technically an upgraded gamecube, that's why its so easy to play gamecube games on it, it even comes with memory card slots.
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BubbyJello

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#7 BubbyJello
Member since 2007 • 2750 Posts

Well, MoH:H2 is a PSP port...

And people actually get wowed by a cut-scene? That has never happened to me...

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The-Great-One99

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#8 The-Great-One99
Member since 2008 • 147 Posts
I've seen ps2 games that have much better graphics than some of my wii games. It's pretty embarrasing
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aco512

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#9 aco512
Member since 2006 • 555 Posts

i think they see the wii as more of a quick money maker than a hardcore console, so u get alot of ports and casual games, and less hardcore games that take advantage of the consoletiminator18
i agree here

developers see the wii as a gold mine, thus you see a billions games pumping out constantly

which isn't a bad thing to have that the option and variety

but wow, there are some really bad games out there

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Twiggiy

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#10 Twiggiy
Member since 2006 • 875 Posts

The wii is technically an upgraded gamecube, that's why its so easy to play gamecube games on it, it even comes with memory card slots.The-Great-One99

Yeah, and the Gamecube is an upgraded N64, which is an upgraded SNES, which is an upgraded NES. So I guess the Wii is an upgraded NES.

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Smoke_ManMuscle

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#11 Smoke_ManMuscle
Member since 2007 • 651 Posts
[QUOTE="Head_of_games"]

Still, i don't think they weren't as good as God of War, a game that came out last!

Jaysonguy

Time to develop for the PS2? 6 years

Time to develop for the Wii? 16 months

It takes time for a dev to understand then develop for the Wii's architecture.

Not an excuse. Given the architecture is literally a Gamecube with more memory and a more efficient processor, they've had over 6 years.

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Jaysonguy

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#12 Jaysonguy
Member since 2006 • 39454 Posts
[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"][QUOTE="Head_of_games"]

Still, i don't think they weren't as good as God of War, a game that came out last!

Smoke_ManMuscle

Time to develop for the PS2? 6 years

Time to develop for the Wii? 16 months

It takes time for a dev to understand then develop for the Wii's architecture.

Not an excuse. Given the architecture is literally a Gamecube with more memory and a more efficient processor, they've had over 6 years.

Not at all, you're under the impression that because some of the specs are the same they can just "add more" to the games.

Everything needs to be built from the ground up again, not your idea of putting more on.

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Smoke_ManMuscle

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#13 Smoke_ManMuscle
Member since 2007 • 651 Posts
[QUOTE="Smoke_ManMuscle"][QUOTE="Jaysonguy"][QUOTE="Head_of_games"]

Still, i don't think they weren't as good as God of War, a game that came out last!

Jaysonguy

Time to develop for the PS2? 6 years

Time to develop for the Wii? 16 months

It takes time for a dev to understand then develop for the Wii's architecture.

Not an excuse. Given the architecture is literally a Gamecube with more memory and a more efficient processor, they've had over 6 years.

Not at all, you're under the impression that because some of the specs are the same they can just "add more" to the games.

Everything needs to be built from the ground up again, not your idea of putting more on.

I'm a month away from a degree in computer science.

Don't tell me what I do and do not know on this subject.

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aco512

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#14 aco512
Member since 2006 • 555 Posts

sadly, this is true

i fear that the current games that are out now have already tapped the maximum capacity of the wii

everything looks on par with twilight princess or worse (which was out on release day)

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Jaysonguy

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#15 Jaysonguy
Member since 2006 • 39454 Posts

I'm a month away from a degree in computer science.

Don't tell me what I do and do not know on this subject.

Smoke_ManMuscle

Don't care if you've passed the course, had the best grade, and the teacher had a crush on you

You're wrong

Just by saying the two consoles are the same you opted out of the argument

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Smoke_ManMuscle

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#16 Smoke_ManMuscle
Member since 2007 • 651 Posts
[QUOTE="Smoke_ManMuscle"]

I'm a month away from a degree in computer science.

Don't tell me what I do and do not know on this subject.

Jaysonguy

Don't care if you've passed the course, had the best grade, and the teacher had a crush on you

You're wrong

Just by saying the two consoles are the same you opted out of the argument

Get yourself educated before you presume to know what you're talking about.

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Ultamite-Ninja

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#18 Ultamite-Ninja
Member since 2007 • 1109 Posts
Jaysonguy is right. The developers just need time to understand the Wii better. Kingdom Hearts I had some mediocore graphics when it first came out, but at that time I thought it looked great! Then Kingdom Hearts II came out and its graphics were atleast 3 times better than Kingdom Hearts I was.
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Smoke_ManMuscle

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#20 Smoke_ManMuscle
Member since 2007 • 651 Posts

*sigh*

Tell a person he has no clue and they'll rationalize their way out of it while you get moderated. Here's the facts:

There is no learning curve. They're already passed it. The reason you're seeing crap on Wii is because crap developers are the only ones making that crap on Wii. There are no first string 3rd party developers making games on Wii. Not a single one.

No, Jasonguy is not right. He's absolutely wrong. Now go tell a moderator I hurt his feelings before he gets back and gets upset over it. Wouldn't want anyone challenging opinions around here, would we?

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raahsnavj

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#22 raahsnavj
Member since 2005 • 4895 Posts
[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"][QUOTE="Smoke_ManMuscle"][QUOTE="Jaysonguy"][QUOTE="Head_of_games"]

Still, i don't think they weren't as good as God of War, a game that came out last!

Smoke_ManMuscle

Time to develop for the PS2? 6 years

Time to develop for the Wii? 16 months

It takes time for a dev to understand then develop for the Wii's architecture.

Not an excuse. Given the architecture is literally a Gamecube with more memory and a more efficient processor, they've had over 6 years.

Not at all, you're under the impression that because some of the specs are the same they can just "add more" to the games.

Everything needs to be built from the ground up again, not your idea of putting more on.

I'm a month away from a degree in computer science.

Don't tell me what I do and do not know on this subject.

I'm not sure how much of the dev kit API changed between the two. If it has changed quite a bit then you would probably have to start over with a lot of the engines and what not that do the rendering. I'm sure the control portion of the API has changed dramatically and i bet few know how to tweak sensitivity and false positives as well as nintendo. Or maybe that is why we don't see major upgrades in the graphics department. The new API has all the old and some new and devs are just to lazy to swap out code for the new methods or functions.
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TheLordMagnus

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#23 TheLordMagnus
Member since 2006 • 3783 Posts
The architecture is not that different from the GameCube. Wii is by far the easiest and most cost effective to develop for. These are professional programmers and they know how it works. When a mediocre game like Mario and Sonic at the Olympics can sell so well, you have other devs looking at this and realizing they can make a lot for little effort.
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lordlors

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#24 lordlors
Member since 2004 • 6128 Posts
i've read an article in the past saying the wii's architecture is really just the same with GC. i think it was Factor 5 who said it and they also said they're surpised that no third party dev managed to pull off maginificent graphics with the wii hardware's acrhitecture similar to that of the Gamecube. Jaysonguy's wrong. it's the third party dev's stupid minds that's in fault here.
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nintendo-4life

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#25 nintendo-4life
Member since 2004 • 18281 Posts
Jasonguy, there's no point in arguing because Smoke is correct, Wii's arcitechture (sp?) is indeed almost the same as the GC's (if not EXACTLY the same), the fact that wii is more powerful has nothing to do with it.
PS. even miyamoto stated this, and congradulations on your degree smoke :D.
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vashkey

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#26 vashkey
Member since 2005 • 33781 Posts

Correct me if Im wrong, but I don't think Nintendo has fully revealed to much of anyone the Wii's technical specifications, including alot of 3rd parties.

If this really is the case then most developers most likely can only go in projects assuming the Wii is as powerful as the Gamecube.

That and alot of Wii games are simply ported PS2/PSP games.

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xcot

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#27 xcot
Member since 2008 • 290 Posts

some people in this thread need their eyes fixed, to the OP, if you've ever seen a cutscene like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvJS6tuuBfM) on ps2, gc or xbox please show me.

2nd, to the person that said most games on wii look like TP, get real, heres a vid of MP3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EAhzQe6RJE) thats gameplay, now heres the best looking scene in TP (i've completed it 4 times) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVZzCokcEwI thats a cutscene and MP3 still looks better

and also, who still doesn't know that the gc is more powerful than the ps2? because some of you talk like its the other way around.

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EmilioDigsIt

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#28 EmilioDigsIt
Member since 2005 • 4391 Posts
What I don't get is how the Wii has the same architecture as the GC, yet devs can't make decent looking games.
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xcot

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#29 xcot
Member since 2008 • 290 Posts
^^^ because GC didn't exactly have the best third party support so its basically like a new archtecture to them
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MacaroniMoses

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#30 MacaroniMoses
Member since 2003 • 682 Posts
Mayhaps because it pretty much is?
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EmilioDigsIt

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#31 EmilioDigsIt
Member since 2005 • 4391 Posts
^^^ because GC didn't exactly have the best third party support so its basically like a new archtecture to themxcot

The majority of devs on Wii are the same devs that were on GameCube.
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mrjam0

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#32 mrjam0
Member since 2007 • 1364 Posts
they dont think its a gc. if they did, we'd get better titles. they think its a ps2:lol:
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NFS102

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#33 NFS102
Member since 2007 • 27011 Posts
I agree. Wii could handle a slightly watered down CoD4 or RE5. I wish third party developers would shape up, but there's nothing we can do about it.
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mrjam0

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#34 mrjam0
Member since 2007 • 1364 Posts


I've yet to see any game on Wii that wouldn't be possible to run on a Gamecube. Despite Wii being technically around almost twice the processing power, I don't see anything in games like Galaxy, MP3, or Brawl that wouldn't be possible to do on a Gamecube.Yes MP3 has the nice bloom shader, and Brawl with the great cutscenes, but its not anything a Gamecube couldn't handle.

Although I don't blame the developers as yet. Currently many are still porting games to PS2, which is the same version (graphically anyway) that gets ported to the Wii. It saves time and money for them to make little graphical changes to the Wii versions of those games. Once PS2 porting has died out, then the third party companies are likely to pull their finger out and get some effort into the presentation of their games.

As to the first party games, its likely that many, if not all of them, started their development cycle on Gamecube. There is no Wii-specific controls in Brawl, Galaxy feels like the "star bits" were thrown in last minute, the game would work without them, but Nintendo probably threw them in along with the few extra levels you needed star bits to get to. And if you take away the Bloom shader in MP3, it'd look identical to MP2. But now that they are truly out of the Gamecube era, the next rush of first party games should be a whole lot better, and feel more Wii-specific.

Weddum

galaxy isnt possible in gc. and there r more effect in mp3 than bloom lighting, and shade.

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Weddum

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#35 Weddum
Member since 2006 • 463 Posts


I just said its obvious there are parts to (Note: PARTS TO) those games where its possible to believe they may have started on Gamecube. And there isn't much graphically added to MP3 apart from the Bloom shader and slightly more crisp particles, which would have been upgraded if MP3 was Gamecube anyway. And you can complete about 90% of Galaxy without ever having to touch a pull star or go to a galaxy you need star bits for.

Also Brawl, MP3 and Galaxy were announced before Wii was released, as launch titles or close around that window. And all of them had a rather large delay over that. So that more makes it seem to be that the transition of all the old Gamecube elements took more time than they thought.

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dcoope3

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#36 dcoope3
Member since 2003 • 762 Posts
^^^ because GC didn't exactly have the best third party support so its basically like a new archtecture to themxcot
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dcoope3

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#37 dcoope3
Member since 2003 • 762 Posts

^^^ because GC didn't exactly have the best third party support so its basically like a new archtecture to themxcot

Exactly, GC mainly got PS2 ports and so is the Wii. The architecture of the Wii is an evolution of the GC. I don't see any reason for them to focus more on the graphics if they games devs make are very profitable. It's just not worth the effort. Even Mark Rein mentioned that's it's not work the effort to make a middleware engine for such outdated hardware.

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dcoope3

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#38 dcoope3
Member since 2003 • 762 Posts
I agree. Wii could handle a slightly watered down CoD4 or RE5. I wish third party developers would shape up, but there's nothing we can do about it.NFS102
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dcoope3

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#39 dcoope3
Member since 2003 • 762 Posts

I agree. Wii could handle a slightly watered down CoD4 or RE5. I wish third party developers would shape up, but there's nothing we can do about it.NFS102

It's not worth the effort. You would have to completely rebuild the engine the games run on. The Wii doesn't have the architecture to support those games. The gameplay can be possible brought over, but there will be so many sacrifices due to memory contraints, lack of multi core processor, etc. It's not worth it. Also, Capcom starts development on PCs first. They would have to make these games for the PS2 beofe they could even consider porting to the Wii.

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Yo-gan

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#40 Yo-gan
Member since 2006 • 1878 Posts
third party developers often make games for many platforms at once. usually the 360/PS3 version are built together, and a Ps2 version is built seperatly. Now instead of building a Wii version seperatly from the ground up its much easier for lazy devolpers to port over the PS2 version and add Wii controlls. Its a shame really. The sooner the PS2 dies the sooner we will see better quality 3rd party games for the Wii. anybody got any thoughts on this?
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eklineage

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#41 eklineage
Member since 2008 • 2413 Posts

GoW had better visuals than MP3? You're joking right? Personally I wouldn't care but you're being delusional. It's obvious.

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dcoope3

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#42 dcoope3
Member since 2003 • 762 Posts

third party developers often make games for many platforms at once. usually the 360/PS3 version are built together, and a Ps2 version is built seperatly. Now instead of building a Wii version seperatly from the ground up its much easier for lazy devolpers to port over the PS2 version and add Wii controlls. Its a shame really. The sooner the PS2 dies the sooner we will see better quality 3rd party games for the Wii. anybody got any thoughts on this?Yo-gan

The most ironnic thing is that the PS2 probably won't die due to the Wii. So we will continue to see this trend until Nintendo decides to bring out a newer much more powerful system.

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BrooklynHotBoy

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#43 BrooklynHotBoy
Member since 2003 • 818 Posts

it seems like the devs rather work more with 360/ps3 because they are more powerful than the wii. I wouldn't call them lazy for not wanting to make good games on the wii but business wise its better to focuse on ps3/60.

haromix reason for sloppy rockband

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/news/show_blog_entry.php?topic_id=26332973&sid=6188992&tag=latestnews;title;2

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GamerJM

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#44 GamerJM
Member since 2007 • 1218 Posts
Well, that doesn't mean the developers can't just take their game and downgrade their graphics to wii-level, like activision did with Marvel: UA and GH3. There is no excuse for games with good gameplay.
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DTP21

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#45 DTP21
Member since 2006 • 53 Posts
Mabye with the release of Spore for PC and the Wii, it open the eyes to more 3rd party companies
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mariokart64fan

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#46 mariokart64fan
Member since 2003 • 20828 Posts

actually ,, i found many third party games that looked good suprisingly, and played well ,, its just you gotta like those games to like em , for example those who complained about red steel ,, probably never liked that type of game to begin with the other half is just mistaken it for goldeneye gameplay wise, red steel was awsome day 1 but today its the house of the dead 2/3 for me . red steel is still the best 4 player fps on wii , medal of honor i think is only 2 i have to look at it again but ya some games dont look as they were updated graphics wise but i cant complain because nintendo did not promise ps3 360 like graphics, , they promised fun and new games and so far nintendo and even third party lived up to that, regardless if you like some of these new games ,, or not i still say , wii offers me more exclusive games in a single year then any console made from ps1-now, i rather have games that are fun to play then have games that look good like pd0 ,, but do not play good, or even offer less,

and honestly if your into local multiplayer, wii is the best choice out there, ps3 and 360s games are online mainly, which is ticking me off knowing i have 6 controllers, but only 7 games out of 30+ that support local 2-4 player multiplayer, same for ps3 , i cant tell you how much of a waste it is to buy extra controllers any more and im sure people who bought 2 360 controllers or more at launch and thought it would be like xbox , would feel the same way i do

but ya you just gotta like a variety in games not just a single genre to own any console this gen , its not gonna be easy if you only liked rpgs or fpses ,, you gotta explore all genres like i do , and i so far only own 1 game i regret buying but i only payed 1999 for it , not 59.99 for it, so in a way your not getting ripped off or gonna feel riped off, because prices for wii games aint as high as 360 ps3 games..

plus i got vc games to , so what if i played them already well some of them ,, i still say its fun today i still play my snes nes n64 etc , , if you look in my collection youll notice i have games across every genre known except one,, that is educational , those i can live without , ,

from action to rpg i own alot of games in these genres less rpg but still , i own em .. and i like most of them , theres only a small few i regret buying in all , maybe 10 out of 804 games arent that good i list them here

1 alien syndrom wii

2 fighting force 64

3 the original gtas - not much freedom also hard to play

4 zombies ate my neighbors genesis i liked the snes version for its easy controls and fun gameplay genesis has the fun of snes but i cant control it as i can with snes

5 amped. i got it as a bundle but still , i think it could have been like 1080

6 nba courtside 2-n64

7 collage hoops 99 -n64

8 zelda mm-n64 ya one zelda game i never understood

9 mario party 1-blisters hurt and quite frankly i got alot playing this game hence why 2-mpds do not use the stick rotation ,,

10 halo 2- xbox,, only 1 game from this gen ,, i already listed it 2 x , but any how ya i kinda agree .alien syndrom looks like not even a gamecu be game it looks like a snes game lol .. not that it would be bad , if the gameplay were fun id be ok but no its not ,

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mariokart64fan

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#47 mariokart64fan
Member since 2003 • 20828 Posts

it seems like the devs rather work more with 360/ps3 because they are more powerful than the wii. I wouldn't call them lazy for not wanting to make good games on the wii but business wise its better to focuse on ps3/60.

wrong , ,, they put more of the fpses wii doesnt get on the others yes but look at the all games section for each console youll see wii has more, ,, its just that its hard for those games to be on wii , and sell hence why wii gets its own set of games, a good set at that,

i just bouight amf bowling, and liked it, not loved it as much but it still fun to play ,, and like many said youll need 2 or all consoles this gen to get all the best games,

look at this list of exclusives for each console then think again im gonna take note that wii has way more exclusives from third party if wed exclude psp and ps2 , as they aint part of the next gen or psp isnt a console

wii -im listing only 3rd party exclusives

carnival games

game party

ea playground

amf bowling

red steel

medal of honor vanguard

medal of honor heroes 2

driver paralel lines -play the older versions if you like but those who own a wii want games for it

resident evil uc

house of the dead 2/3

timesplitters 4-still uknown but free radical said they want it on wii they havent announced any other platform since then so ya

FAR CRY vengance

cruisn

dave mira bmx challenge- for those tony hawk/extreame sports fans,

enough for wii

360

dead rising

saints row

test drive unlimited-also on ps2 but just like i said earlier people want games for their new platforms

nfs most wanted-the only next gen version

burnout revenge-again the only next gen version of the game

madden 06-same here

ps3

haze

mgs4

folkure

and thats that ,,

wiis got more support quite frankly and why are we making this a system wars thread again ,, this belongs in system wars

haromix reason for sloppy rockband

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/news/show_blog_entry.php?topic_id=26332973&sid=6188992&tag=latestnews;title;2

BrooklynHotBoy