What Needs to happen in future Zelda Games

K concerning Twilight Princess and I know I'm going to get flamed by fanboys for this but it wasn't that great & that's looking passed that its not really a next generation game, keep in mined I've been a Zelda fan for years.

"The Linear Adventures of Goody Too Shoes" or TP I'd only give a 6-7 out of 10 it was ok but nothing special or new, it was enough to make fanboys rave and hype it up but that's it. You can only save the girl from the same railroad tracks the same way so many times before it gets boring and it seems the Zelda series seems to be unwilling to change.

What needs to happen is simple they need to step away from the golden boy who does nothing wrong and is flawless. Darker Heroes or Heroes with at least some flaws are just more interesting to me this needs to happen to Link or at least have the option of it happening, he doesn't need to always like or want to do the right thing.

I prefer a Darker Hero or at least an option to be Darker more Evil etc. I would like to see an option to be a Dark Link or options and choices that would turn you one way or the other + he looks better in black IMO and could use a bit more of a bad boy Attitude.

It might be an idea as to also give options on how you start who says you have to be someone from Hyrule and the plot where he starts out as a peaceful farm boy life and latter learns he's the legendary hero has become predictable and boring, in traditional Zelda games you get to make up a name anyway this is just stretching the idea.

Enough with the stupid kid Quests This one has really been a pet peeve for years guy goes from doing so dangers monster killing quest to happy go lucky kid picking up chickens WTF? How about giving me a choice like beating someone up for money robbing someone or actually killing some bandits or something and there's always the classic Baldur's Gate response "Just give it to me or I'll kill you" instead of chicken collecting? Now before you start ranting that's not Zelda play something else, TP was rated T for Teen and a lot of Teen games have that sort of material and if you're going to make a Teen game might as well make it an actual Teen IMO.

Weapon system - Shields are gay give me an option to dual wield swords

Armor - He really needs to lose the night cap for realz no matter how cool they try and make it look it just doesn't fly anymore. Also again he looks better in black.

Your ideas seem fit for a fanfiction. I'm sorry to say it, but ideas like these annoy me a lot. Good stories are the result of hard work, not a few ideas here and there glued and pasted together. Believe me, i've tried it.

If you dislike the Zelda series so much, why don't you play a different game?

Just go play fable or any of the other games out there that let you be an evil character. Link is who he is, a boy/man who represents goodness in a world consumed by darkness. Perish the thought that Link wont be able to slap a kokiri chick if she doesn't hand over the rupees...

Your point about a more mature Zelda is valid, but it can't be Link. Nintendo always makes a darker half of their good (somewhat childish), characters i.e. Wario to Mario. We already know Link's darker half from Majora's Mask, Fierce Deity. They should just make a game with him as the protagonist. Or... If you really want to hold on to your idea of good and bad in the same game, they could have a game where Link has the Fierce Deity Mask (or Fierce Deity's spirit in him) and can't control his other half, adding aspects of remorse on Link's part for the actions of his counterpart. That actually sounds kinda cool:P... But no senseless violence; it has no place in Zelda games.

All I really want in the next one is difficulty settings. I get sick and tired of using three heart runs as a way to challenge myself in every Zelda game.

K concerning Twilight Princess and I know I'm going to get flamed by fanboys for this but it wasn't that great & that's looking passed that its not really a next generation game, keep in mined I've been a Zelda fan for years.

"The Linear Adventures of Goody Too Shoes" or TP I'd only give a 6-7 out of 10 it was ok but nothing special or new, it was enough to make fanboys rave and hype it up but that's it. You can only save the girl from the same railroad tracks the same way so many times before it gets boring and it seems the Zelda series seems to be unwilling to change.

What needs to happen is simple they need to step away from the golden boy who does nothing wrong and is flawless. Darker Heroes or Heroes with at least some flaws are just more interesting to me this needs to happen to Link or at least have the option of it happening, he doesn't need to always like or want to do the right thing.

I prefer a Darker Hero or at least an option to be Darker more Evil etc. I would like to see an option to be a Dark Link or options and choices that would turn you one way or the other + he looks better in black IMO and could use a bit more of a bad boy Attitude.

It might be an idea as to also give options on how you start who says you have to be someone from Hyrule and the plot where he starts out as a peaceful farm boy life and latter learns he's the legendary hero has become predictable and boring, in traditional Zelda games you get to make up a name anyway this is just stretching the idea.

Enough with the stupid kid Quests This one has really been a pet peeve for years guy goes from doing so dangers monster killing quest to happy go lucky kid picking up chickens WTF? How about giving me a choice like beating someone up for money robbing someone or actually killing some bandits or something and there's always the classic Baldur's Gate response "Just give it to me or I'll kill you" instead of chicken collecting? Now before you start ranting that's not Zelda play something else, TP was rated T for Teen and a lot of Teen games have that sort of material and if you're going to make a Teen game might as well make it an actual Teen IMO.

Weapon system - Shields are gay give me an option to dual wield swords

Armor - He really needs to lose the night cap for realz no matter how cool they try and make it look it just doesn't fly anymore. Also again he looks better in black.

Shielder7

A while ago I would have agreed but think about it. If you want to play as a "dark" hero and whatever go play fable, or something else. Zelda has its own charm and regardless of how dark link's character is or how good the story is I still love Zelda. Take Wind waker, it doesnt have much of a story but the way they played out the interactions and facial expressions made me like the characters.

Seriously, what is it with this dark link crap, it sounds fine on paper and if you only own a nintendo wii but come on. Zelda needs new gameplay features, not a dark story. Good stories dont have to be dark. Also the game you just described does sound fine, but it would be straying away from the core Zelda formula.

Im not saying that there has to be the same Dungeon, item, boss thing again in the next one. IM saying the core of Zelda is its puzzle solving. If you want options go and play an rpg.

Look at what they did with SMG. They took the core platforming elements of mario and turned it into something new. Yes your essentially doing the same thing but its masked and integrated behind a new layer of gameplay features.

And dude, some things just should not be messed with, like link's costume

I think Twilight Princess was an epic adventure that really brought back the Zelda spirit. It was based on Zelda: Ocarina of Time, when it comes to the progress of the game, but it's too easy to say that it was a remake, a ripoff, or whatever. The dungeon design was quite original and very well-crafted, and certainly raised the Zelda standard in a lot of instances. Actually I think WW was more similar to Zelda in that the dungeons ofter next to nothing new, and much of the game's progress was even more similar to OoT than TP. At least TP was a great, enjoyable, complete game, whereas WW was not.

What needs to happen in the future I think, perhaps some voice acting. Link can still be mute, but Zelda finally has to come with time. Perhaps make the next Zelda game a side-story instead of another chapter in the legends of Hyrule. Like with Majora's Mask, it could prove to be a more daring and original game.

Enough with the stupid kid Quests This one has really been a pet peeve for years guy goes from doing so dangers monster killing quest to happy go lucky kid picking up chickens WTF? How about giving me a choice like beating someone up for money robbing someone or actually killing some bandits or something and there's always the classic Baldur's Gate response "Just give it to me or I'll kill you" instead of chicken collecting? Now before you start ranting that's not Zelda play something else, TP was rated T for Teen and a lot of Teen games have that sort of material and if you're going to make a Teen game might as well make it an actual Teen IMO.

So you want the next Zelda to be a medieval GTA? As the poster before me said, Zelda has its own charm and if you want something like you described you should go play Fable or something. To implement this in a Zelda game would be utterly stupid, unnatural and pointless.

The rest of your post kind of betrays that you have the misconception that a game = a story. It's nonsense. They could release a game with Dark Link in the main role (which would be stupid but still), and still have virtually the same gameplay, only with another layout and description. In many ways, Twilight Princess was one of the darkest Zeldas yet, so I don't really get what you're complaining about as many of the previous Zelda games were much brighter (bar maybe MM).

"Dark" heroes are overrated. A hero who robs or threatens people to get what he wants has no moral compass; he's no hero at all. Doing something like this to Link would be completely ridiculous.

Now, a hero with flaws is another matter entirely.

"Dark" heroes are overrated. A hero who robs or threatens people to get what he wants has no moral compass; he's no hero at all. Doing something like this to Link would be completely ridiculous.

Now, a hero with flaws is another matter entirely.

Dr_Corndog

This man is wise.

I think Twilight Princess was an epic adventure that really brought back the Zelda spirit. It was based on Zelda: Ocarina of Time, when it comes to the progress of the game, but it's too easy to say that it was a remake, a ripoff, or whatever. The dungeon design was quite original and very well-crafted, and certainly raised the Zelda standard in a lot of instances. Actually I think WW was more similar to Zelda in that the dungeons ofter next to nothing new, and much of the game's progress was even more similar to OoT than TP. At least TP was a great, enjoyable, complete game, whereas WW was not.

What needs to happen in the future I think, perhaps some voice acting. Link can still be mute, but Zelda finally has to come with time. Perhaps make the next Zelda game a side-story instead of another chapter in the legends of Hyrule. Like with Majora's Mask, it could prove to be a more daring and original game.

So you want the next Zelda to be a medieval GTA? As the poster before me said, Zelda has its own charm and if you want something like you described you should go play Fable or something. To implement this in a Zelda game would be utterly stupid, unnatural and pointless.

The rest of your post kind of betrays that you have the misconception that a game = a story. It's nonsense. They could release a game with Dark Link in the main role (which would be stupid but still), and still have virtually the same gameplay, only with another layout and description. In many ways, Twilight Princess was one of the darkest Zeldas yet, so I don't really get what you're complaining about as many of the previous Zelda games were much brighter (bar maybe MM).

DraugenCP

TP was not an epic adventure it was simply OoT 1.1 only Fan boys can't see past this and my point was the golden boy role of link has become boring and repetitive time for a change.

"Dark" heroes are overrated. A hero who robs or threatens people to get what he wants has no moral compass; he's no hero at all. Doing something like this to Link would be completely ridiculous.

Now, a hero with flaws is another matter entirely.

Dr_Corndog

False

TP was not an epic adventure it was simply OoT 1.1 only Fan boys can't see past this and my point was the golden boy role of link has become boring and repetitive time for a change.

Shielder7

Get over it. Zelda isn't played for Link. It's played for the combat, puzzles, and anything else an adventure can offer.

ur pretty much saying "hey, lets' just let bioware make zelda titles" dual wielding weapons and reflective choices and pretty much everything u just stated have all been done in KOTORfiercedeity901

Done in

BG 1/2

KOTOR

NWN

WoW

Fable

The list goes on simply because its interesting and works.

Majoras Mask 2, dammit.

[QUOTE="Dr_Corndog"]

"Dark" heroes are overrated. A hero who robs or threatens people to get what he wants has no moral compass; he's no hero at all. Doing something like this to Link would be completely ridiculous.

Now, a hero with flaws is another matter entirely.

Wintry_Flutist

This man is wise.

yeah like a psycho who believes he is Link

Get over it. Zelda isn't played for Link.

Wintry_Flutist

Yeah yeah it is.

[QUOTE="fiercedeity901"]ur pretty much saying "hey, lets' just let bioware make zelda titles" dual wielding weapons and reflective choices and pretty much everything u just stated have all been done in KOTORShielder7

Done in

BG 1/2

KOTOR

NWN

WoW

Fable

The list goes on simply because its interesting and works.

And it's the only way to make an action/adventure mirite?

[QUOTE="Wintry_Flutist"]

Get over it. Zelda isn't played for Link.

Shielder7

Yeah yeah it is.

If that's the only argument that you have to say millions played Zelda because of this super interesting character:

Instead of the variety of items, puzzles, enemies, quests, and mechanics, you better try harder.

TP was not an epic adventure it was simply OoT 1.1 only Fan boys can't see past this and my point was the golden boy role of link has become boring and repetitive time for a change.Shielder7

If we're going to play by that line then TP is really Lttp 1.3, seeing as OoT was a carbon copy of that game bar the graphics. WW was way more similar to OoT than TP ever was, as the dungeon design was much more similar and it introduced much less new methods of play, bar the whole sea aspect of the game. People just find it easier to compare TP to OoT because the layout is very similar (adult link in 'realistic' graphics rather than young link in cel-shaded graphics). For the rest I've already explained in my previous post why TP is a great game in its own right, and you launching some superficial ideas whilst labelling anyone who opposes it as a fanboy is not going to change my opinion on it in the slightest, as I don't think altering the story or being able to dual wield weapons make the difference between a good and a bad game.

[QUOTE="Shielder7"]TP was not an epic adventure it was simply OoT 1.1 only Fan boys can't see past this and my point was the golden boy role of link has become boring and repetitive time for a change.DraugenCP

If we're going to play by that line then TP is really Lttp 1.3, seeing as OoT was a carbon copy of that game bar the graphics.

Stopped reading there. Ocarina of Time is God's gift to 3D gaming, with innovations that are still used in modern games. If it was just about graphics, OoT would have been this.

Id like to see a toon link on the wii ever since I fell in love with how he looks in ssbb! As for the whole evil hero... It's more like making him a villain... Then again, it could be like a revenge robin-hood sort of thing! They imprison him and he escapes to extract revenge...

OR....They could make a "The legend of Link" game and then you play as Zelda/Sheik sort of like what they did with the mario series whereas they made 1 game that revolved around peach for a change (super princess peach)

[QUOTE="DraugenCP"]

[QUOTE="Shielder7"]TP was not an epic adventure it was simply OoT 1.1 only Fan boys can't see past this and my point was the golden boy role of link has become boring and repetitive time for a change.Wintry_Flutist

If we're going to play by that line then TP is really Lttp 1.3, seeing as OoT was a carbon copy of that game bar the graphics.

Stopped reading there. Ocarina of Time is God's gift to 3D gaming, with innovations that are still used in modern games. If it was just about graphics, OoT would have been this.

I wasn't trying to bring Ocarina of Time down, but merely giving a simple example of how you can use relativation to bring down a great game if you want to. I appreciate all Zelda games for what they are (even though I found WW disappointing), and unlike the topic starter I won't let the obvious similarities lead to ignorance of the progress the series has made over the years. I was just stating that if we are going to call TP a remake of OoT (which it isn't in my opinion), we might as well call OoT a remake of LttP.

For the sake of argument, though, 3D gaming was there two years before OoT with Super Mario 64, and the 3D graphics of that game are still better. Someone made an interesting point on this on another forum and I might get back to it if I can find it still.

I wasn't trying to bring Ocarina of Time down, but merely giving a simple example of how you can use relativation to bring down a great game if you want to. I appreciate all Zelda games for what they are (even though I found WW disappointing), and unlike the topic starter I won't let the obvious similarities lead to ignorance of the progress the series has made over the years. I was just stating that if we are going to call TP a remake of OoT (which it isn't in my opinion), we might as well call OoT a remake of LttP.

For the sake of argument, though, 3D gaming was there two years before OoT with Super Mario 64, and the 3D graphics of that game are still better. Someone made an interesting point on this on another forum and I might get back to it if I can find it still.

DraugenCP

OK, so considering Mario 64 graphics are better, that makes Ocarina of Time innovations obsolete, because that's all there is about 3D gaming, right? 3D gaming, alias, gaming as a whole, could have gone on without locked targetting or full button mapping?

Sorry, but not just what Ocarina of Time brought to the table after Mario 64 was much needed, but the gap between A Link to the Past and Ocarina of Time is like thousands of time more colossal than between Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess, and than what people want to think to defent twilight Princess.

OK, so considering Mario 64 graphics are better, that makes Ocarina of Time innovations obsolete, because that's all there is about 3D gaming, right? 3D gaming, alias, gaming as a whole, could have gone on without locked targetting or full button mapping?Wintry_Flutist

You just named those innovations, but people not uncommonly pretend that the step Ocarina of Time made as related to LttP was bigger than it actually was. The transition from 2D to full 3D motion was already made two years earlier with Super Mario 64, yet people love to imply that 3D gaming wasn't even around by the time OoT came out.

Yes, Ocarina of Time was a much-needed game in the adventure genre, and in the video gaming world in general, but when Twilight Princess is being labelled as an Ocarina of Time clone, the general concept (the way you progress in the dungeons, the story, and gaming concept as a whole) is named as an argument much rather than the graphics, (which is why Majora's Mask is never involved in similar discussions), and I can't help to point out that in this area, Ocarina of Time took a lot from LttP.

The graphical layout does make people aware of the similarities more than usual, seeing as TP introduced many more new gameplay elements than WW ever did, while the latter has hardly even been compared to OoT.

[QUOTE="Wintry_Flutist"]OK, so considering Mario 64 graphics are better, that makes Ocarina of Time innovations obsolete, because that's all there is about 3D gaming, right? 3D gaming, alias, gaming as a whole, could have gone on without locked targetting or full button mapping?DraugenCP

You just named those innovations, but people not uncommonly pretend that the step Ocarina of Time made as related to LttP was bigger than it actually was. The transition from 2D to full 3D motion was already made two years earlier with Super Mario 64, yet people love to imply that 3D gaming wasn't even around by the time OoT came out.

Yes, Ocarina of Time was a much-needed game in the adventure genre, and in the video gaming world in general, but when Twilight Princess is being labelled as an Ocarina of Time clone, the general concept (the way you progress in the dungeons, the story, and gaming concept as a whole) is named as an argument much rather than the graphics, (which is why Majora's Mask is never involved in similar discussions), and I can't help to point out that in this area, Ocarina of Time took a lot from LttP.

The graphical layout does make people aware of the similarities more than usual, seeing as TP introduced many more new gameplay elements than WW ever did, while the latter has hardly even been compared to OoT.

*Facepalm* Did I say Ocarina of Time is the sole responsible for 3D gaming transition? No, and if I mentioned only two innovations, it's because they are two straighforward features that don't require any explanation to be understood as major changes in gaming history. If I went further and fully explained how Ocarina of Time is a pinacle of game design, I would need a book, since many of its achievements are brilliant design decisions that can't be put in a couple of words like "Locked targetting", which is self explanatory.

About Twilight Princess, people seem to purposely ignore the meaning of "Ocarina of Time 1.1". It's not because of Zelda's design history, that comes from the original Zelda, and not A Link to the Past (a prettier version of the original Zelda - see, I can do that too), but because Twilight Princess is pure fan service made with Ocarina of Time fanboys who don't care about innovation in mind, so that Nintendo would guarantee sales for the Wii at launch. In other words, playing safe. Too safe.

*Facepalm* Did I say Ocarina of Time is the sole responsible for 3D gaming transition? No, and if I mentioned only two innovations, it's because they are two straighforward features that don't require any explanation to be understood as major changes in gaming history. If I went further and fully explained how Ocarina of Time is a pinacle of game design, I would need a book, since many of its achievements are brilliant design decisions that can't be put in a couple of words like "Locked targetting", which is self explanatory.Wintry_Flutist

Did I say you said that? No, I said 'people' as in the general public which often uses the argument that it's original because it went 3D full stop as an argument. It was more of a general statement than something directed at you personally. Further more you imply that I am questioning the position of Ocarina of Time in video gaming evolution, which I am not. As I said I am pointing out the fact that OoT didn't coin the Zelda concept which often still seems to be the idea.

About Twilight Princess, people seem to purposely ignore the meaning of "Ocarina of Time 1.1". It's not because of Zelda's design history, that comes from the original Zelda, and not A Link to the Past (a prettier version of the original Zelda - see, I can do that too), but because Twilight Princess is pure fan service made with Ocarina of Time fanboys who don't care about innovation in mind, so that Nintendo would guarantee sales for the Wii at launch. In other words, playing safe. Too safe.

I do agree that the whole layout of TP was just meant to dim down the criticism WW got from OoT fanboys who didn't dig the 'unrealistic' graphics. However, whenever someone makes a post in here, or any other forum, stating that TP is too similar to OoT, it often lacks substance because, apart from the layout, TP wasn't any more similar to OoT than WW, while WW never got this kind of criticism merely because it looked different, which is enough evidence in itself that the comparisons between TP and OoT are superficially driven for the most part.

I find it dubious, by the way, that you state that Twilight Princess was played safe in order to drive the Wii sales, while Twilight Princess was already in a far stage of development, after its release date had been postponed several times, when it was announced a Wii version would also be available. It's hard to believe then, that they scrapped everything and went for a safe OoT clone as you imply, just so that the Wii version (and the Wii) would sell. The Wii version was certainly called to life to improve the Wii sales, but if you're saying that the game was modeled just for doing so then I'd have to fully disagree.

Look, Wintry and Draugen, let's just get back to why the TC is wrong, because that is something we can all agree on.

I highly doubt you are a fan of the Zelda series, if you've played through all of the games, then you would know what makes the series so great. Exploration, charm, dungeons, simple yet fun combat, and fun puzzles. The last time a developer shook things up to give something a darker edge (fiercer combat, dark brooding anti hero) we ended up with the steaming pile of crap known as Prince of Persia: Warrior Within (hey, that had dual weilding in it to, surprise surprise).

Link is a connection between you and the game world, he doesn't need to be Broody McSpawn with twin Blood Swords and a love of puppy kicking. He's a kid with a sword, a shield, and heart full of courage.

It kind of reminds me of how some developers listen to the fans and change the way they do things in their games. Sometimes that works, and sometimes that doesn't. Eiji Aonuma and Miyamoto are better known for ignoring that, and giving everyone something they never even knew they wanted.

And for the record, Twilight Princess is probably the weakest core Zelda game to date, and thats because they listened to fans like you and saw that everyone wanted another Ocarina of Time.

If I had a nickel for every Zelda idea I could hire a team and make a Zelda myselfair_wolf_cubed

I find it dubious, by the way, that you state that Twilight Princess was played safe in order to drive the Wii sales, while Twilight Princess was already in a far stage of development, after its release date had been postponed several times, when it was announced a Wii version would also be available. It's hard to believe then, that they scrapped everything and went for a safe OoT clone as you imply, just so that the Wii version (and the Wii) would sell. The Wii version was certainly called to life to improve the Wii sales, but if you're saying that the game was modeled just for doing so then I'd have to fully disagree.

DraugenCP

I'll just comment about this, since you've made your point about the rest.

As you may know, TP was supposed to a completely different game than we know. Most importantly, animal interaction was first announced as the very spine of the game. You can also catch a few things from early trailers, such as Link swimming without the Zora Tunic, which shows Nintendo was aiming for much more modern concepts and freedom instead of the old "dress in blue to swim", which came directly from Ocarina of Time (Majora's Mask had a much more elegant solution, and Wind Waker didn't feature it for obvious reasons).

But as more news arose, the game was more and more advertised as the "new Ocarina of Time". Yes, Nintendo said it themselves, Ocarina of Time was the benchmark, and TP was goingto be "bigger", have "more dugeons", "more items", etc. What made the game change so drastically? Only one thing comes to one's mind: because TP eventually became a Wii game, a decision obviously made way sooner than it was announced.

On a side note on WW: it's not just about the looks. The game featured actual new elements that were very relevant, such as "co op" dungeons, wind and sea themes, but most importantly, the game screams how the team cared about it and tried its best. That adds a lot to a game. We don't have such vibe in TP.

ok, 1. no more ganondorf coming back to life in the same Zelda game.

2. Zelda needz a DIFFICULTY SETTING (easy, normal, and hard would be nice). other games have them.:x:|

ok, 1. no more ganondorf coming back to life in the same Zelda game.

2. Zelda has to have a DIFFICULTY SETTING. other games have them, (it could at least make all the enemies real easy to kill, if not the puzzles.)

Jdog30

1. Hell yes, as much as I lovethe Gerudo King, I'd like to see more big baddies. Zant was quite promising until we saw he was a puppet, and Vaati was great as well. A new one would be a good idea.

2. I agree that multiple difficulties would be nice, but are you saying that they're too hard? Because I think its almost the opposite.

K concerning Twilight Princess and I know I'm going to get flamed by fanboys for this but it wasn't that great & that's looking passed that its not really a next generation game, keep in mined I've been a Zelda fan for years.

"The Linear Adventures of Goody Too Shoes" or TP I'd only give a 6-7 out of 10 it was ok but nothing special or new, it was enough to make fanboys rave and hype it up but that's it. You can only save the girl from the same railroad tracks the same way so many times before it gets boring and it seems the Zelda series seems to be unwilling to change.

What needs to happen is simple they need to step away from the golden boy who does nothing wrong and is flawless. Darker Heroes or Heroes with at least some flaws are just more interesting to me this needs to happen to Link or at least have the option of it happening, he doesn't need to always like or want to do the right thing.

I prefer a Darker Hero or at least an option to be Darker more Evil etc. I would like to see an option to be a Dark Link or options and choices that would turn you one way or the other + he looks better in black IMO and could use a bit more of a bad boy Attitude.

It might be an idea as to also give options on how you start who says you have to be someone from Hyrule and the plot where he starts out as a peaceful farm boy life and latter learns he's the legendary hero has become predictable and boring, in traditional Zelda games you get to make up a name anyway this is just stretching the idea.

Enough with the stupid kid Quests This one has really been a pet peeve for years guy goes from doing so dangers monster killing quest to happy go lucky kid picking up chickens WTF? How about giving me a choice like beating someone up for money robbing someone or actually killing some bandits or something and there's always the classic Baldur's Gate response "Just give it to me or I'll kill you" instead of chicken collecting? Now before you start ranting that's not Zelda play something else, TP was rated T for Teen and a lot of Teen games have that sort of material and if you're going to make a Teen game might as well make it an actual Teen IMO.

Weapon system - Shields are gay give me an option to dual wield swords

Armor - He really needs to lose the night cap for realz no matter how cool they try and make it look it just doesn't fly anymore. Also again he looks better in black.

Shielder7

Why is this person complaining? Shields are what?!?! The game is a medieval quest so what is he to use to protect himself? I agree with what a previous poster said when they said that TP was the darkest Zelda yet. I haven't finished the game yet but I'm pretty far and I'm still surprised at how deep the quest is and how a somewhat simple quest turns into something complex because it was broken up into mini tasks. As much as this would normally irritate me I actually loved it. Maybe you'd be happier if you played another game that had all these things. He looks better in black? Hmm... emo. Okay, taking into consideration the suggestions you made about the appearance and gameplay then what type of story would you put with this Dark Link, that would actually make sense with the Zelda anthology? That's where the game idea would stop.

[QUOTE="DraugenCP"]

I find it dubious, by the way, that you state that Twilight Princess was played safe in order to drive the Wii sales, while Twilight Princess was already in a far stage of development, after its release date had been postponed several times, when it was announced a Wii version would also be available. It's hard to believe then, that they scrapped everything and went for a safe OoT clone as you imply, just so that the Wii version (and the Wii) would sell. The Wii version was certainly called to life to improve the Wii sales, but if you're saying that the game was modeled just for doing so then I'd have to fully disagree.

Wintry_Flutist

I'll just comment about this, since you've made your point about the rest.

As you may know, TP was supposed to a completely different game than we know. Most importantly, animal interaction was first announced as the very spine of the game. You can also catch a few things from early trailers, such as Link swimming without the Zora Tunic, which shows Nintendo was aiming for much more modern concepts and freedom instead of the old "dress in blue to swim", which came directly from Ocarina of Time (Majora's Mask had a much more elegant solution, and Wind Waker didn't feature it for obvious reasons).

But as more news arose, the game was more and more advertised as the "new Ocarina of Time". Yes, Nintendo said it themselves, Ocarina of Time was the benchmark, and TP was goingto be "bigger", have "more dugeons", "more items", etc. What made the game change so drastically? Only one thing comes to one's mind: because TP eventually became a Wii game, a decision obviously made way sooner than it was announced.

On a side note on WW: it's not just about the looks. The game featured actual new elements that were very relevant, such as "co op" dungeons, wind and sea themes, but most importantly, the game screams how the team cared about it and tried its best. That adds a lot to a game. We don't have such vibe in TP.

I'm sure you BELIEVE Nintendo changed Twilight Princess for the sake of Wii sales, but that doesn't seem plausible. Think about it, how many games change during development. Games like Okami and Resident Evil 4 come to mind. Nearly all games have some kind of shift during production, usually to make game elements work with each other. Maybe you are right. Maybe not. But Twilight Princess is not a game where the development team "didn't care". This game is packed with detail, scope, design, and is one of the best looking GameCube titles ever. And as for WindWaker, it's also one of the best GC titles visually. You forgot to mention WW's best new direction, the combat. The way the combat flowed and worked and the different ways to approach an enemy was fresh and is something TP used nearly the same. As for the wind and sea themes, that is usually the biggest complaint most people have with the game, though I found it rather cool. And the Blue Tunic in Ocarina of Time didn't let Link swim, rather it let him breathe underwater.FFCYAN

A detail that proves pretty much nothing. As for the rest, I can't really bother to reply... Over one year after TP release, I lack the passion and energy to point out all its obvious flaws.

I'll just comment about this, since you've made your point about the rest.

As you may know, TP was supposed to a completely different game than we know. Most importantly, animal interaction was first announced as the very spine of the game. You can also catch a few things from early trailers, such as Link swimming without the Zora Tunic, which shows Nintendo was aiming for much more modern concepts and freedom instead of the old "dress in blue to swim", which came directly from Ocarina of Time (Majora's Mask had a much more elegant solution, and Wind Waker didn't feature it for obvious reasons).Wintry_Flutist

I'll have to take your word on this as I paid very little attention to Twilight Princess's development process and news etc., as it took place in a period where I lost my interest in video gaming a bit.

On a side note on WW: it's not just about the looks. The game featured actual new elements that were very relevant, such as "co op" dungeons, wind and sea themes, but most importantly, the game screams how the team cared about it and tried its best. That adds a lot to a game. We don't have such vibe in TP.

To be honest, I didn't feel the vibe you described at all as I played to Wind Waker. It felt too light-hearted, too happy (I'm not talking about the graphics, just the overall setting and atmosphere), and most of all it felt like an incomplete and rushed game. I still couldn't believe it where I expected to go to the third dungeon during a storm and they just gave you the pearl for free with some lousy excuse. I think I've heard people say that there was originally supposed to be more content, but I'd have to verify that. I actually found the sailing around the best element in the game, although ironically it's the most criticized element in the press. I didn't really enjoy myself going through any of the dungeons. While there were some alterations as you described, the only one I really remember enjoying was the Tower of the Gods, and even that one wasn't as enjoyable as, say, Goron Mines or City in the Sky in TP, in my opinion. Twilight Princess was by no means a perfect game, but I at least had the feeling I was playing a complete game that made sense, and I enjoyed every second of it. I got the whole 'like reading a book' feeling again that I had with OoT and MM, something I definitely missed in WW.

At the end of the day it might just be an opinion or a personal feeling, but in TP I rediscovered what made the Zelda series so enjoyable to me.

To be honest, I didn't feel the vibe you described at all as I played to Wind Waker. It felt too light-hearted, too happy (I'm not talking about the graphics, just the overall setting and atmosphere), and most of all it felt like an incomplete and rushed game. I still couldn't believe it where I expected to go to the third dungeon during a storm and they just gave you the pearl for free with some lousy excuse. I think I've heard people say that there was originally supposed to be more content, but I'd have to verify that. I actually found the sailing around the best element in the game, although ironically it's the most criticized element in the press. I didn't really enjoy myself going through any of the dungeons. While there were some alterations as you described, the only one I really remember enjoying was the Tower of the Gods, and even that one wasn't as enjoyable as, say, Goron Mines or City in the Sky in TP, in my opinion. Twilight Princess was by no means a perfect game, but I at least had the feeling I was playing a complete game that made sense, and I enjoyed every second of it. I got the whole 'like reading a book' feeling again that I had with OoT and MM, something I definitely missed in WW.

At the end of the day it might just be an opinion or a personal feeling, but in TP I rediscovered what made the Zelda series so enjoyable to me.

DraugenCP

Wind Waker was, indeed, an incomplete game. It's a shame, but we can see the game was headed to be an even greater beast than it already is.

[QUOTE="FFCYAN"]I'm sure you BELIEVE Nintendo changed Twilight Princess for the sake of Wii sales, but that doesn't seem plausible. Think about it, how many games change during development. Games like Okami and Resident Evil 4 come to mind. Nearly all games have some kind of shift during production, usually to make game elements work with each other. Maybe you are right. Maybe not. But Twilight Princess is not a game where the development team "didn't care". This game is packed with detail, scope, design, and is one of the best looking GameCube titles ever. And as for WindWaker, it's also one of the best GC titles visually. You forgot to mention WW's best new direction, the combat. The way the combat flowed and worked and the different ways to approach an enemy was fresh and is something TP used nearly the same. As for the wind and sea themes, that is usually the biggest complaint most people have with the game, though I found it rather cool. And the Blue Tunic in Ocarina of Time didn't let Link swim, rather it let him breathe underwater.Wintry_Flutist

A detail that proves pretty much nothing. As for the rest, I can't really bother to reply... Over one year after TP release, I lack the passion and energy to point out all its obvious flaws.

You said,"dress in blue to swim", which came directly from Ocarina of Time. I just wanted to correct that error. As for TP, yeah it has it's faults, but it's not a broken game. Or an average game. It was a critically acclaimed by many. GOTY here and there. I'm sure you'll brush that off as rubbish. I know not everyone enjoyed this game like you. And that's cool. As for me, I definitely got my money's worth and agree with the majority. That's all.FFCYAN

I'm sure you're mentally capable to understad "dress in blue to swim" was an example of "the color you dress actually changes your habilities!" which is the actual old concept...

Why is this person complaining? Shields are what?!?! The game is a medieval quest so what is he to use to protect himself?

livinitup01

The same way they do in other games. If you want to run around with a shield and a night cap on thats you but give me the option of having another weapon in my hand for offence in exchange for defence. It wouldn't be a hard change or option if you think about it

[QUOTE="FFCYAN"]You said,"dress in blue to swim", which came directly from Ocarina of Time. I just wanted to correct that error. As for TP, yeah it has it's faults, but it's not a broken game. Or an average game. It was a critically acclaimed by many. GOTY here and there. I'm sure you'll brush that off as rubbish. I know not everyone enjoyed this game like you. And that's cool. As for me, I definitely got my money's worth and agree with the majority. That's all.Wintry_Flutist

I'm sure you're mentally capable to understad "dress in blue to swim" was an example of "the color you dress actually changes your habilities!" which is the actual old concept...

[QUOTE="livinitup01"]

Why is this person complaining? Shields are what?!?! The game is a medieval quest so what is he to use to protect himself?

Shielder7

The same way they do in other games. If you want to run around with a shield and a night cap on thats you but give me the option of having another weapon in my hand for offence in exchange defence. It wouldn't be a hard change or option if you think about it

In Link's Awakening and Minish Cap you can select which two items you want. You don't need to have the sword or shield out. More to the point in OoT the Biggorn Sword strips you of your ability to use the shield, and in WindWaker you can use enemy weapons instead of your sword and shield.

Its not a new idea for Zelda. Put seriously, stop putting down the hat so much, its part of the character design. Its a freaking hat, if you feel emasculated by that you need to have your priorities re-examined.

A twist on the story is okay, but you can't just go changing the entire Zelda franchise.link027

Actually I'm not suggesting you change anything just adding options If you want to play the golden boy that grew up on a farm and does nothing wrong for the 10th time so be it but give options to take a different path it would also add replay value to the game which most Zelda games lack. adding options is in most cases never a bad idea.

As to the fan boys who I'm mostly ignoring fighting over TP lol man you must have it bad not to see the flaws in TP the game is no where near a next generation system game pl take your childish flame war else where.

ok, 1. no more ganondorf coming back to life in the same Zelda game.

2. Zelda has to have a DIFFICULTY SETTING. other games have them, (it could at least make all the enemies real easy to kill, if not the puzzles.):x:|:evil:

Jdog30

Interesting ideas Ganon seems to be the diablo of zelda but it would be a nice change and yes Zelda games need to be harder I don't mean DMC 3 hard but they're far too easy as is.

Constructive criticism and ideas are always welcome nice change from fanboy rants.

[QUOTE="Wintry_Flutist"]

[QUOTE="FFCYAN"]You said,"dress in blue to swim", which came directly from Ocarina of Time. I just wanted to correct that error. As for TP, yeah it has it's faults, but it's not a broken game. Or an average game. It was a critically acclaimed by many. GOTY here and there. I'm sure you'll brush that off as rubbish. I know not everyone enjoyed this game like you. And that's cool. As for me, I definitely got my money's worth and agree with the majority. That's all.FFCYAN

I'm sure you're mentally capable to understad "dress in blue to swim" was an example of "the color you dress actually changes your habilities!" which is the actual old concept...

Oh my, for starters that comment "blue makes you swim " was for someone that wouldn't start nitpicking like you, and about a different matter, and if that's all you can bring to this... I know what every item does, no need to remind me. You're picking a quote of mine out of context.

I agree with u Link Should be evil if he decides to and good if he decides to they should have multipule endings depending on wich path u choose to follow. You would probably have to make it an M rated game so u can kill who u want there should be blood. Link should have personality about him he should be able to talk insted of just sitting there and making faces when somthing goes wrong. He Should be able to say holy crap when somthing goes wron no one sits there and makes faces. Whaterver they do they should make it so u can go where ever u want over seas any town and do want u want.Hackeysacked

Agreed but they don't need to make it M, I wouldn't be opposed if they did but it's not necessary. Many T games have you killing other people mild language use of alcohol and a bit of blood. To get a M rating you need extrema acts of violence sexuality & you really have to push the envelope like Oblivion did so unless they plan on letting you chop peoples heads off it won't get an M rating.

To be honest I don't even know how TP got a Teen than I remember its about a guy running around with a fairy in green tights and I wouldn't want to explain to some kid what a closet case was.