WOW!!! Second time my Wii has died on me :(

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kenakuma

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#1 kenakuma
Member since 2007 • 3462 Posts

So I just ran into a new problem with my Wii unfortunately.

I already had the "pixel" problem that many with launch Wii's ran into. I had a launch Wii and developed that problem 2 years into the cycle. Ninty fixed it for free and I was cool.

Now I just ran into a new problem. I was in the middle of a pretty rockin party at my house and right around 1:00ish when everyone was feelin pretty good and peaked I tried to work in a Wii Sports session.

A couple hours earlier my Wii came un-plugged (incase that is relevant to the problem).

So I go to start it and no matter what game I threw in it gets a disc read error (and the discs are clean as spring) and I'm pretty upset because people are getting impatient and leaving and I'm freakin beacause my Wii isn't working and Galaxy 2 is right around the corner.

Bottom line, does anyone know what the heck is going on? I'm gonna chew Ninty out tommorow on the phone but even if they offer a free re-pair it sucks because this is a crucial time to have my Wii (friends in town for summer and SMG 2 closing in) and its a Wii!!! This isn't supposed to happen!!!

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Enforcedspot

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#2 Enforcedspot
Member since 2010 • 2915 Posts
ahh that's sucks :( my wii broke too and i want too play SMG 2 but anyway get a job to save your money to buy a black wii,
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srdjan311

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#3 srdjan311
Member since 2007 • 1247 Posts

sign 4rm above lol

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maxgil2

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#4 maxgil2
Member since 2004 • 785 Posts

unplugged? did someone kicked it accidentally?..any burnt smell?

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revofanboy2005

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#5 revofanboy2005
Member since 2005 • 364 Posts

So its not just the 360 dying on people....interesting......

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kenakuma

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#6 kenakuma
Member since 2007 • 3462 Posts

unplugged? did someone kicked it accidentally?..any burnt smell?

maxgil2

No, not exactly.

What happened is someone had to plug a cell pone charger in and in the process the Wii became un-plugged.

Then like 2-3 hours later when I went to play it I noticed it came un-plugged and I plugged it back in to find out its broken :(

I also noticed their is a loud ticking sound when I put a disc in, hopefully someone will know whats going on. I really don't feel like sending it in right now!

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Shottayouth13-

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#7 Shottayouth13-
Member since 2009 • 7018 Posts
Disk read errors? Hmm try getting one of those laser lens cleaner.
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kenakuma

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#8 kenakuma
Member since 2007 • 3462 Posts

I looked it up some.

Hopefully the Wii disc lens cleaner can solve it!

Not sure if GS or some other local retailer caries it, I'll check first thing tommorow.

I doubt it will work though because chances are its not dirt related, I mean it literally went from reading 100% to 0% :(

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locopatho

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#9 locopatho
Member since 2003 • 24300 Posts
Yeah mine broke too. Tho Ninty fixed it for free which was great :) Hope yours works out!
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kenakuma

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#10 kenakuma
Member since 2007 • 3462 Posts

Yeah mine broke too. Tho Ninty fixed it for free which was great :) Hope yours works out!locopatho

I'd be cool with that if it wasn't the second time (with a Wii ironically) and SMG2 is closing in!

I found 2 potential solutions:

One, load up Wii sports (as that should still work) and mess around with that.

Two, un-plug it from the wall and re-plug it back in.

Unfortunatly I still have a few ppl over so I'll have to wait before trying these "fixes".

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DraugenCP

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#11 DraugenCP
Member since 2006 • 8486 Posts

So its not just the 360 dying on people....interesting......

revofanboy2005

Well, every console has a failure rate, it's just that the 360's is roughly 8 times as big as the Wii's, with the PS3 being somewhere inbetween.

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da_chub

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#12 da_chub
Member since 2007 • 3140 Posts
well, i will say that considering that Nintendo isnt known for issues, im surprised that you have had 2 issues. If this is an xbox forum, then we would be taling 4-5 times it has dies, so cheer up and be happy that atleast it isnt a 360. (ps, my Wii had a disc error, but it fell off my desk and worked for like a year...with a small humming sound coming from it, before it finally died and nintendo still fixed it for free.)
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#13 BrunoBRS
Member since 2005 • 74156 Posts
did you try other games? wii sports is one annoying game to work. it's kept on that paper box, which can scratch it, and my first copy of the game wouldn't ever read. the second one works, if you insist a lot... more than the game deserves. now that i have resort, i don't even look at wii sports anymore.
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Jaysonguy

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#14 Jaysonguy
Member since 2006 • 39454 Posts

well, i will say that considering that Nintendo isnt known for issues, im surprised that you have had 2 issues. da_chub

The Wii is well known for it's defects

1. While trying to keep up with demand there were complete runs of consoles that never got the correct heatsink and that means there's many of Wii's out there that don't have the proper cooling and over time will fail.

2. The lens problem with the Wii that made Nintendo come out with the lens cleaner to avoid having to take care of the consoles themselves. It's better for Nintendo to make a profit then for Nintendo to pay you to get the console and then repair the faulty lens.

3. The bearings in the launch Wii's are hit or miss. I know that I had to agree to not get my original Wii back so they could completely dissect it and see why so many fans were failing all around the same time from the launch set

I've had to send it back twice and I've had one repaired and then one new one

It's not out of the realm of possibility that others would have to send theirs back as well

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kenakuma

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#15 kenakuma
Member since 2007 • 3462 Posts

did you try other games? wii sports is one annoying game to work. it's kept on that paper box, which can scratch it, and my first copy of the game wouldn't ever read. the second one works, if you insist a lot... more than the game deserves. now that i have resort, i don't even look at wii sports anymore.BrunoBRS

Resort is what I was trying to play with my friends, I havent touched the original in over a year.

The only reason I tried it is somebody on another blog said loading wii sports and then swapping disks would fix it O_0 of course it didn't work but I'll try anything at this point!

Its barely been over a year since my Wii had to be sent in and fixed last. They extended my warranty last time they fixed it so I should still be covered and if not their gonna get an earful!

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soulreaper-4

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#16 soulreaper-4
Member since 2007 • 2247 Posts

[QUOTE="da_chub"]well, i will say that considering that Nintendo isnt known for issues, im surprised that you have had 2 issues. Jaysonguy

The Wii is well known for it's defects

1. While trying to keep up with demand there were complete runs of consoles that never got the correct heatsink and that means there's many of Wii's out there that don't have the proper cooling and over time will fail.

2. The lens problem with the Wii that made Nintendo come out with the lens cleaner to avoid having to take care of the consoles themselves. It's better for Nintendo to make a profit then for Nintendo to pay you to get the console and then repair the faulty lens.

3. The bearings in the launch Wii's are hit or miss. I know that I had to agree to not get my original Wii back so they could completely dissect it and see why so many fans were failing all around the same time from the launch set

I've had to send it back twice and I've had one repaired and then one new one

It's not out of the realm of possibility that others would have to send theirs back as well

What was the problem with your Wii?
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kenakuma

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#17 kenakuma
Member since 2007 • 3462 Posts

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

[QUOTE="da_chub"]well, i will say that considering that Nintendo isnt known for issues, im surprised that you have had 2 issues. soulreaper-4

The Wii is well known for it's defects

1. While trying to keep up with demand there were complete runs of consoles that never got the correct heatsink and that means there's many of Wii's out there that don't have the proper cooling and over time will fail.

2. The lens problem with the Wii that made Nintendo come out with the lens cleaner to avoid having to take care of the consoles themselves. It's better for Nintendo to make a profit then for Nintendo to pay you to get the console and then repair the faulty lens.

3. The bearings in the launch Wii's are hit or miss. I know that I had to agree to not get my original Wii back so they could completely dissect it and see why so many fans were failing all around the same time from the launch set

I've had to send it back twice and I've had one repaired and then one new one

It's not out of the realm of possibility that others would have to send theirs back as well

What was the problem with your Wii?

I've already had #1 like a little over a year ago now I'm getting hit with #2!

Hopefully the wii cleaning lens thing will fix it but like I said it literally went from 100% success rate to 0% overnight so I doubt it will :(

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soulreaper-4

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#18 soulreaper-4
Member since 2007 • 2247 Posts
That sucks. I wasn't using my Wii since a long time and was using more my PS3 because i noticed some little line superfitcial scratches on the botton of the center hub that touches the cases and spindle motor without data. Accodding to a Nintendo representative as long as my games were playing and i am not receiving the error you mention my Wii is okay and in the case the Wii scratch a game i will hear a weird sound and the scratch will not be superficial it will be very noticeable and perfectly circular around the area with data. In a case of something like this they even replace your games with new ones.I think this may be normal wear from taking in and out a lot the games so i decided to use the Wii to finish New Super Mario Bros. Wii and i can't way to get my hands on Mario Galaxy 2. I recommend you give them a call and tell them about your problem. Nintendo customer service is one of the bests.
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kenakuma

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#19 kenakuma
Member since 2007 • 3462 Posts

Yeah, I gave them a call this morning.

They said to go buy a Wii lens cleaning kit.

I just got back from GS tried the cleaning kit and when I pulled it out their was next to zero dirt (I knew I kept it clean) and no games would still work!

I just called them back and they set up a repair which sucks because now I'm gonna be out $60 and I'll have to miss SMG2 by a couple weeks :(

At least they knocked $15 off of my repair bill because they made me waste $ on the Wii lens kit which didn't work...

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revofanboy2005

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#20 revofanboy2005
Member since 2005 • 364 Posts

[QUOTE="revofanboy2005"]

So its not just the 360 dying on people....interesting......

DraugenCP

Well, every console has a failure rate, it's just that the 360's is roughly 8 times as big as the Wii's, with the PS3 being somewhere inbetween.

I knew the PS3 had some issues, I think its the yellow light of death or something, but the wii seems to be the least likely to konk out of the 3. Never heard of it failing till now.

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#21 BrunoBRS
Member since 2005 • 74156 Posts

[QUOTE="DraugenCP"]

[QUOTE="revofanboy2005"]

So its not just the 360 dying on people....interesting......

revofanboy2005

Well, every console has a failure rate, it's just that the 360's is roughly 8 times as big as the Wii's, with the PS3 being somewhere inbetween.

I knew the PS3 had some issues, I think its the yellow light of death or something, but the wii seems to be the least likely to konk out of the 3. Never heard of it failing till now.

while it still is the one with the least chances to blow up, it still has. last time i checked it was something around 10%... the 360 has over 50% failure rate >.>
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soulreaper-4

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#22 soulreaper-4
Member since 2007 • 2247 Posts
[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"][QUOTE="revofanboy2005"]

[QUOTE="DraugenCP"]

Well, every console has a failure rate, it's just that the 360's is roughly 8 times as big as the Wii's, with the PS3 being somewhere inbetween.

I knew the PS3 had some issues, I think its the yellow light of death or something, but the wii seems to be the least likely to konk out of the 3. Never heard of it failing till now.

while it still is the one with the least chances to blow up, it still has. last time i checked it was something around 10%... the 360 has over 50% failure rate >.>

You're right. I hate people that talk without knowing, yellow light is not total failure of the console it's just an indicator that an internal component is not working. It could be the lens, disc drive, powesupply, fan, gpu, cpu ect.
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revofanboy2005

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#23 revofanboy2005
Member since 2005 • 364 Posts

[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"][QUOTE="revofanboy2005"]

I knew the PS3 had some issues, I think its the yellow light of death or something, but the wii seems to be the least likely to konk out of the 3. Never heard of it failing till now.

soulreaper-4

while it still is the one with the least chances to blow up, it still has. last time i checked it was something around 10%... the 360 has over 50% failure rate >.>

You're right. I hate people that talk without knowing, yellow light is not total failure of the console it's just an indicator that an internal component is not working. It could be the lens, disc drive, powesupply, fan, gpu, cpu ect.

Uh, thus why I used phrases expressing uncertainty like "I think" and "or something." I'm not an expert on hardware failures and the reasons for their occurrences. Gimme a break.

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soulreaper-4

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#24 soulreaper-4
Member since 2007 • 2247 Posts
[QUOTE="kenakuma"]

Yeah, I gave them a call this morning.

They said to go buy a Wii lens cleaning kit.

I just got back from GS tried the cleaning kit and when I pulled it out their was next to zero dirt (I knew I kept it clean) and no games would still work!

I just called them back and they set up a repair which sucks because now I'm gonna be out $60 and I'll have to miss SMG2 by a couple weeks :(

At least they knocked $15 off of my repair bill because they made me waste $ on the Wii lens kit which didn't work...

Hey do you thing what i thought to be a problem is nothing as they said?
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BrunoBRS

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#25 BrunoBRS
Member since 2005 • 74156 Posts

[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"][QUOTE="revofanboy2005"]

I knew the PS3 had some issues, I think its the yellow light of death or something, but the wii seems to be the least likely to konk out of the 3. Never heard of it failing till now.

soulreaper-4

while it still is the one with the least chances to blow up, it still has. last time i checked it was something around 10%... the 360 has over 50% failure rate >.>

You're right. I hate people that talk without knowing, yellow light is not total failure of the console it's just an indicator that an internal component is not working. It could be the lens, disc drive, powesupply, fan, gpu, cpu ect.

actually i was talking about the wii's failure rate. "blow up" is just a way of saying it :P

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TheColbert

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#26 TheColbert
Member since 2008 • 3846 Posts
My Wii has broke either 2 or 3 times but each time it has been free. Nintendo has good customer service.
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Sepewrath

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#27 Sepewrath
Member since 2005 • 30712 Posts
I've never had a Nintendo console fail on me, that includes the handhelds(as opposed to 2 Sony consoles), They are pretty reliable, there is a chance you got a defective console, it can happen to any piece of hardware. But there is also a chance it got broken, did you leave it in a hot room or stuffed in a little space, or drop it or anything like that?
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kenakuma

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#28 kenakuma
Member since 2007 • 3462 Posts

I've never had a Nintendo console fail on me, that includes the handhelds(as opposed to 2 Sony consoles), They are pretty reliable, there is a chance you got a defective console, it can happen to any piece of hardware. But there is also a chance it got broken, did you leave it in a hot room or stuffed in a little space, or drop it or anything like that? Sepewrath

Well this is my fourth time a Nintendo console has failed on me this gen alone :?

Both my phat DS and DS lite had the "hinge" crack problem due to cheap plastic and this is the second time I'm sending my Wii in.

Yes, quite a few of the launch Wii's were defective and had heating problems that are well documented on these boards alone. I had that and sent it back only to have it fixed and ran into the disc read error problem :|Though its not really talked about here its definetly quite big after a few minuets of research on the web!

Nintendo consoles are usually quite reliable (I own every one minus vb) but they do mess up sometimes. USA Nes for one with the 72-pin connector and an overall HORRIBLE design, SNES has your standard "cart" related issues which I'll excuse as cats where standard at the time. N64's cart related issues I will blame on Ninty as they should have been using cd's by then. GC and all Gb's (minus micro) I've never ever had a problem with. And the Wii's issues I will blame on Ninty!

If I was running into wii-mote and motion related problems I would throw them a bone as motion stuff is new but disc read errors and heating issues should not be this big of a issue on the Wii out of all systems!

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kenakuma

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#29 kenakuma
Member since 2007 • 3462 Posts

Thankfully as I was packing my Wii at the post office to send in I was un-packing my new Game Boy Lite and the game "Golf" so now I have something to keep me occupied for the next couple weeks!

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maxgil2

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#30 maxgil2
Member since 2004 • 785 Posts

[QUOTE="Sepewrath"]I've never had a Nintendo console fail on me, that includes the handhelds(as opposed to 2 Sony consoles), They are pretty reliable, there is a chance you got a defective console, it can happen to any piece of hardware. But there is also a chance it got broken, did you leave it in a hot room or stuffed in a little space, or drop it or anything like that? kenakuma

Well this is my fourth time a Nintendo console has failed on me this gen alone :?

Both my phat DS and DS lite had the "hinge" crack problem due to cheap plastic and this is the second time I'm sending my Wii in.

Yes, quite a few of the launch Wii's were defective and had heating problems that are well documented on these boards alone. I had that and sent it back only to have it fixed and ran into the disc read error problem :|Though its not really talked about here its definetly quite big after a few minuets of research on the web!

Nintendo consoles are usually quite reliable (I own every one minus vb) but they do mess up sometimes. USA Nes for one with the 72-pin connector and an overall HORRIBLE design, SNES has your standard "cart" related issues which I'll excuse as cats where standard at the time. N64's cart related issues I will blame on Ninty as they should have been using cd's by then. GC and all Gb's (minus micro) I've never ever had a problem with. And the Wii's issues I will blame on Ninty!

If I was running into wii-mote and motion related problems I would throw them a bone as motion stuff is new but disc read errors and heating issues should not be this big of a issue on the Wii out of all systems!

Just unlucky...my GC had issues when I bought it (dodgy EB) ...lucky I bought the extra warranty too (allow for straight replacement)..it play most games fine except SNK vs Capcom 2 EO & Baten Kaitos ..so got it replace.

My NES & SNES never had a fault.. & my Wii (touchwood) bought on release is running great ;)

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KBFloYd

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#31 KBFloYd
Member since 2009 • 22714 Posts

my wii has the pixel issue...but its too minor(imo) for me to pay and send it in..

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kenakuma

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#32 kenakuma
Member since 2007 • 3462 Posts

Just unlucky...my GC had issues when I bought it (dodgy EB) ...lucky I bought the extra warranty too (allow for straight replacement)..it play most games fine except SNK vs Capcom 2 EO & Baten Kaitos ..so got it replace.

My NES & SNES never had a fault.. & my Wii (touchwood) bought on release is running great ;)

maxgil2

I'd say I'm not the un-lucky one, but your the lucky one my friend! :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_Entertainment_System#Hardware_design_flaws

The NES had some MAJOR design flaws and if yours is running even remotely fine these days without any part replacements or major repairs since launch than you must have one of the limited edition, un-offically annouced mount olympus editions forged byHephaestus himself!

The GC I can see having problems and I am lucky that mine never had any!

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kenakuma

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#33 kenakuma
Member since 2007 • 3462 Posts

my wii has the pixel issue...but its too minor(imo) for me to pay and send it in..

KBFloYd

I guess its a matter of opinion.

Any defective interference on screen would make me mad and send it in.

Not sure how bad yours is but the way this issue works its only gonna get worse unfortunalty :(

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#34 Master_Of_Fools
Member since 2009 • 1651 Posts

The same thing happened to my Wii I also bought a Wii the day it first came out so we are on the same page here. It always says Cant Read Disk and makes like a scratching noise when the disk is trying to get read. But my disks are clean and not a scratch on them but what the problem is, is the Sensor in the Wii that reads the disks got bumped or something or it has a scratch on it somehow. (If the wii was vertical and fell over at all then that would explain it) I ended up getting a new Wii but I thought later of trying that Laser Cleaner thing but it didnt help at all if there is a scratch on the sensor there is nothing that can be done so it appears you will have to buy a new wii....you could send it in but honestly SMG 2 is only 6 days away and if your like me I cant f-ing wait to play the game so I would suggest you just buy a new Wii they are cheaper then when they fiirst came out lol.

P.S SMG 2 will be epic!!!! 2010 is the year of Nintendo since there is SMG 2, Metroid The Other M, Pokemon Heart Gold / Soulsilver, A New Zelda Game, and The 5th Generation of Pokemon games (Pokemon Black and Pokemon White) All the main Nintendo Characters have a new game this year. Mark my words this is the year Nintendo gets back to being the Number 1 Console.

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elbert_b_23

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#35 elbert_b_23
Member since 2003 • 8247 Posts
wow i have had my wii over 2 years and it lived thou one thanksgiving little cuz's dropping it 2 times from a 3 foot drop and i haven't had it brake yet
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kenakuma

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#36 kenakuma
Member since 2007 • 3462 Posts

Its pretty solidly built. Drops like that really shouldn't do to much if anything at all.

And to the other guy no, I've never dropped/knocked it over. All that really happened prior to its failing was it coming un-plugged (while off btw) and then being plugged back in.

Its gone back now, they promised me under 2 weeks so well see...

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#37 BrunoBRS
Member since 2005 • 74156 Posts
I've never had a Nintendo console fail on me, that includes the handhelds(as opposed to 2 Sony consoles), They are pretty reliable, there is a chance you got a defective console, it can happen to any piece of hardware. But there is also a chance it got broken, did you leave it in a hot room or stuffed in a little space, or drop it or anything like that? Sepewrath
which reminds me... my GBC still works, and my wii fell about 6ft and still runs perfectly... which reminds me (x2) of that G4 video where they compared the resistance/durability/endurance/whatever-you-wanna-call-it between the 3 past gen consoles, and the gamecube won :P
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#38 Sepewrath
Member since 2005 • 30712 Posts
^Yeah I remember that episode. Ken is sounds like your just jumping on blaming Nintendo a little too quick. Its not such an impossible thing that you are causing problems to your systems. I have a NES that is just a couple years younger than me and it still works. Maybe you should look into how you care for your consoles instead of focusing on how to blame Nintendo. I'm not saying your console didn't have a defect in it, its possible. But it sounds like you haven't even entertained the thought that you caused the problem.
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kenakuma

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#39 kenakuma
Member since 2007 • 3462 Posts

^Yeah I remember that episode. Ken is sounds like your just jumping on blaming Nintendo a little too quick. Its not such an impossible thing that you are causing problems to your systems. I have a NES that is just a couple years younger than me and it still works. Maybe you should look into how you care for your consoles instead of focusing on how to blame Nintendo. I'm not saying your console didn't have a defect in it, its possible. But it sounds like you haven't even entertained the thought that you caused the problem. Sepewrath

Did you read that Wiki article I posted on the NES?

It was made with very well known long term defects (72-connector pin) which Nintendo admits to.

If your Nes is working 100% flawlessly still than you are in the very very low minority and very lucky, either that or you just never really ever played it and wore out your connector pins which wear extremely easily and I end up replacing them ever 3-4 years due to this.

I have treated my Wii perfectly, its defects are Nintendo related, they admitted to the launch heating flaw (as jason mentioned) and the disc read error is quite wide spread, in fact it was the first option listed on their problems hotline. The fact they are charging me for this re-pair is ticking me off but whatever.

Like I said, I own all Ninty home consoles and I know them pretty darn well inside and out (taken them all apart aside from Wii and GC many times) and their definetly are design flaws as well as defects within Nintendo products that are related to Nintendo's decisions and designs.

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Sepewrath

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#40 Sepewrath
Member since 2005 • 30712 Posts
Yes every piece of hardware ever has had defects off the line, but if your consoles keep breaking and you don't hear about huge numbers having the same problem, it might not be the console that's the problem.
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kenakuma

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#41 kenakuma
Member since 2007 • 3462 Posts

Yes every piece of hardware ever has had defects off the line, but if your consoles keep breaking and you don't hear about huge numbers having the same problem, it might not be the console that's the problem. Sepewrath

Thats the thing though all the problems I mentioned are quite well known and are reported in quite large numbers.

Sure their no RROD but they definetly exist and do effect many users.

No matter, I'll keep repairing/maintaining all my Ninty systems till the day I die!!!

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maxgil2

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#42 maxgil2
Member since 2004 • 785 Posts

I'd say I'm not the un-lucky one, but your the lucky one my friend! :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_Entertainment_System#Hardware_design_flaws

The NES had some MAJOR design flaws and if yours is running even remotely fine these days without any part replacements or major repairs since launch than you must have one of the limited edition, un-offically annouced mount olympus editions forged byHephaestus himself!

The GC I can see having problems and I am lucky that mine never had any!

kenakuma

:) Maybe your Wii just doesn't like you or got jealous..hehehe...this kinda things happens tho, no ones fault . My NES I had for around 7 years (wasn't bought at launch) before I gav it to my cousin ..I played it in 2001 when I was back in Malaysia still work..I was suprise. :) Had heaps of games on it ..regretted giving it away - my sis was extremely pissed cause Kid Icarus was gone :P

Didn't realise there was an issue with NES - tho I did wonder why they had such a complicated system but back then I thought it was cool. :)

Only had 1 GC replace had to swap it for ugly silver cause I couldn't wait..(black was my original one) but no issue since :)

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kenakuma

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#43 kenakuma
Member since 2007 • 3462 Posts

:) Maybe your Wii just doesn't like you or got jealous..hehehe...this kinda things happens tho, no ones fault . My NES I had for around 7 years (wasn't bought at launch) before I gav it to my cousin ..I played it in 2001 when I was back in Malaysia still work..I was suprise. :) Had heaps of games on it ..regretted giving it away - my sis was extremely pissed cause Kid Icarus was gone :P

Didn't realise there was an issue with NES - tho I did wonder why they had such a complicated system but back then I thought it was cool. :)

Only had 1 GC replace had to swap it for ugly silver cause I couldn't wait..(black was my original one) but no issue since :)

maxgil2

They went with that poor design in the USA because they thought it would be more appealing to US gamers -_- its okay they were still learning back then.

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#44 SoAmazingBaby
Member since 2009 • 3023 Posts
Aww. That's a shame man.