You are a Nintendo core gamer when....(please answer)

a core gamer is a gamer that wants to play challenging games, play for highscores and generally gets their kicks out of being better than everyone else at games, and knowing more about them than everyone else

a casual gamer is not one of those people.

When I play games like Galaxy and TP and dont call them rehashesair_wolf_cubed

This.

[QUOTE="air_wolf_cubed"]When I play games like Galaxy and TP and dont call them rehashes-Wheels-

This.

Yup.

To me a core/hardcore gamer is someone who lives and breathes videogames, like myself. I've been gaming since I was 5 years old. I grew up with Mario, Zelda, Kirby, Megaman etc. Videogames always have and always will be a huge part of my life, I play them on a daily basis. I'm not ashamed that I play videogames, and I don't care what other people think of me doing so. I'm a gamer and proud of it. If videogames never existed, the world would be a boring place. A core/hardcore gamer is someone who will support videogames regardless of what others think, and be proud of the fact that they play videogames. And you can never have too many videogames either, since the Wii came out I've bought 25 games and that's not including VC games either. A core/hardcore gamer is someone who will buy as many games as they can afford and not care if other people think they're wasting money. It doesn't matter what type of games you play, or for how many hours you spend playing them. A core/hardcore gamer is someone who doesn't need to spend countless hours playing games, as long as you're enjoying every second of what you're doing, that's what counts. I can honestly say that I enjoy playing videogames more than most things.

This is what I think a core/hardcore gamer is.

It's a myth created by people with Nintendo systems trying to make themselves feel better about their situations

Nintendo has never challenged the gamer. None of the Mario Bros games are hard, Zelda is a cakewalk for anyone who didn't suffer head trauma, and other titles like Metroid just take a little time to sort out.

The idea that the "core Nintendo gamer" is upset is past laughable. They've "supposedly" been playing these games all their lives but now that the spotlight is on them they can't say they enjoy this kind of gaming. Instead they're trying to throw Nintendo under the bus so others wont look at them a certain way.

It's a myth created by people with Nintendo systems trying to make themselves feel better about their situations

Nintendo has never challenged the gamer. None of the Mario Bros games are hard, Zelda is a cakewalk for anyone who didn't suffer head trauma, and other titles like Metroid just take a little time to sort out.

The idea that the "core Nintendo gamer" is upset is past laughable. They've "supposedly" been playing these games all their lives but now that the spotlight is on them they can't say they enjoy this kind of gaming. Instead they're trying to throw Nintendo under the bus so others wont look at them a certain way.

Jaysonguy

hmmm...i dont see myself as a fan of any company (they all have one purpose after all) and seeing as how the Wii is my 1st nintendo console, i can understand this. Also, the division between "hardcore" and "casual" is odd to me.

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

It's a myth created by people with Nintendo systems trying to make themselves feel better about their situations

Nintendo has never challenged the gamer. None of the Mario Bros games are hard, Zelda is a cakewalk for anyone who didn't suffer head trauma, and other titles like Metroid just take a little time to sort out.

The idea that the "core Nintendo gamer" is upset is past laughable. They've "supposedly" been playing these games all their lives but now that the spotlight is on them they can't say they enjoy this kind of gaming. Instead they're trying to throw Nintendo under the bus so others wont look at them a certain way.

batsy4life

hmmm...i dont see myself as a fan of any company (they all have one purpose after all) and seeing as how the Wii is my 1st nintendo console, i can understand this. Also, the division between "hardcore" and "casual" is odd to me.

I'm a fan of Nintendo, they do a lot of things I like and while they might not always thrill people with their lack of things like online I understand why they chose their path.

The hardcore/casual stuff is nonsense. Don't pay attention to it. We're all casual at some point and then our interest in it decides how we are.

Games aren't casual or hardcore, people are. No one title lifts you to the ranks of hardcore or lowers you to a casual player.

Actually the division between Casual / Hardcore didn't exist before Wii. Nintendo's celebrates 'paradigm' shift to collapse the gulf between Gamer / Non Gamer has only succeeded in creating a new sub genre.

Here's the thing: Before Wii, and to a certain extent DS, the 'Gamer' was a person who played games (simple isn't it?) because there were those who either played, or those who did not, the process of making games was equally simple. It had stayed the same for decades, game developers and companies knew what worked for fans of games, and non gamers either had to jump in and start, or remain non gamers.

Gamers had a certain image (you know, the nerdy kids who don't like sport and would rather stay home than go to a party.. me in other words) since the creation of the Wii and Nintendo's method of dragging non gamers in, the previously mentioned Gamers now feel a certain sense of loss, it may be selfish, but it has to do with the fact that now non gamers can call themselves gamers, and it makes us feel like we've lost a certain identity.

Imagine if you can, all the Goths in the world if suddenly being Goth was the norm. Butit wasn't quite the Goth you remember, wouldn't the previous Goths all stand up and say 'umm.. sorry you're not Goth' and wouldn't the new ones stand up and say 'hey.. I'm wearing black, I'm Goth' ok so the analogy isn't fantastic, but you get the drift.

Since the Wii, developers and game companies now have a far larger demographic to play for, games are now created with the new recruits in mind, and sadly, most companies feel that new gamers who started with the Wii need their games to be easy, shallow, and no sense of loss. I personally think they are selling themselves short.

So, the people who used to be just gamers feel now that they need to set themselves apart from the new gamers because the games that are made to appeal to these new recruits are really a stain on the gaming name as a whole, and they don't want to be something like 'oh you're a gamer! I play Wii sports too!'

Bottom line: Hardcore games are pretty much games that have storyline, or require practice and skill to progress, Casual games are games that can be picked up, and not only played, but won by anyone, these games generally have no sense of story or difficulty curve.

1.) you can list 5 nintendo franchises

2.) you know who Shigeru miyamoto, satura iowata and Reggie fils amie are. ( deosnt mantter if you can spell their names)

3.) Know what Rare is, and what heppened between them and Nintendo.

4.) Wet you pants when you see a new Zelda or mario trailer

It's a myth created by people with Nintendo systems trying to make themselves feel better about their situationsJaysonguy

This. Although it could probably be any system. People who call themselves core gamers usually mean that they're into M-rated blockbusters.

For me an actual core gamer is someone who tries to get everything a game has to offer. What game it is matters little.

To me a core/hardcore gamer is someone who lives and breathes videogames, like myself. I've been gaming since I was 5 years old. I grew up with Mario, Zelda, Kirby, Megaman etc. Videogames always have and always will be a huge part of my life, I play them on a daily basis. I'm not ashamed that I play videogames, and I don't care what other people think of me doing so. I'm a gamer and proud of it. If videogames never existed, the world would be a boring place. A core/hardcore gamer is someone who will support videogames regardless of what others think, and be proud of the fact that they play videogames. And you can never have too many videogames either, since the Wii came out I've bought 25 games and that's not including VC games either. A core/hardcore gamer is someone who will buy as many games as they can afford and not care if other people think they're wasting money. It doesn't matter what type of games you play, or for how many hours you spend playing them. A core/hardcore gamer is someone who doesn't need to spend countless hours playing games, as long as you're enjoying every second of what you're doing, that's what counts. I can honestly say that I enjoy playing videogames more than most things.

This is what I think a core/hardcore gamer is.

J_Ford

QFT...never heard it put so eloquently. What I find funny is when people base someone being hardcore by the content of the games they play. It's quite laughable

A Nintendo core gamer is someone who pretends they played since the SNES and decides to come on the Wii forums to bash the Wii in stupid topics that consist of basically "I'm an idiot who cares only about shooters, but I'm a Nintendo fan honest, I played games since the SNES, well if you class seeing one in a shop once as playing then yes. Oh and did I mention that I don't want to try an genres other than the ones I like and I don't want new IP's unless they have blood or guns in, so the Wii sucks and Nintendo has abandoned core gamers"

A proper Nintendo core gamer is someone who knows there are flaws with the Wii but who looks at the upcoming games and goes, wow Nintendo are really working away from the Gamecube which had very few quality 3rd party games, now they are getting so many great looking 3rd party exclusives, it's a good time to own a Wii if you want to try different and unique gaming experiences rather than only hype games with teh shiny graphics and guns.

I would like to know what a Nintendo core gamer is. There are several people who accuse Nintendo of forgetting about the core gamer, thats why I ask....and curious.batsy4life

A proper Nintendo core gamer is someone who [etc. etc. agrees with me].bobbetybob

You can't define what a core vs. casual gamer is by their opinion. You can't treat either group as if it were monolithic.

The simplest and most correct definition of a core gamer is one who spends more hours per week playing games than a casual (definitions change about how many hours that is, but I believe a common definition is over 5 hours per week.) A Nintendo core gamer would then be one who spends over 5 hr/week playing games, with the majority of that time spent playing games on a Nintendo system.

An alternate definition of a core gamer is one who does not choose casual game genres as their preferred ones. PopCap Games - a premier maker of what it calls "casual games" defines those as "family-friendly, non-violent puzzle, word, or simple action games." They also count card games. Basically, any game without any real learning curve. The core gamer may play casual titles, but the majority of their time is spent on other games. A Nintendo core gamer would then be one who spends the majority of their gaming time playing non-casual titles on a Nintendo system.

Actually the division between Casual / Hardcore didn't exist before Wii. Nintendo's celebrates 'paradigm' shift to collapse the gulf between Gamer / Non Gamer has only succeeded in creating a new sub genre.

Here's the thing: Before Wii, and to a certain extent DS, the 'Gamer' was a person who played games (simple isn't it?) because there were those who either played, or those who did not, the process of making games was equally simple. It had stayed the same for decades, game developers and companies knew what worked for fans of games, and non gamers either had to jump in and start, or remain non gamers.

Gamers had a certain image (you know, the nerdy kids who don't like sport and would rather stay home than go to a party.. me in other words) since the creation of the Wii and Nintendo's method of dragging non gamers in, the previously mentioned Gamers now feel a certain sense of loss, it may be selfish, but it has to do with the fact that now non gamers can call themselves gamers, and it makes us feel like we've lost a certain identity.

Imagine if you can, all the Goths in the world if suddenly being Goth was the norm. Butit wasn't quite the Goth you remember, wouldn't the previous Goths all stand up and say 'umm.. sorry you're not Goth' and wouldn't the new ones stand up and say 'hey.. I'm wearing black, I'm Goth' ok so the analogy isn't fantastic, but you get the drift.

Since the Wii, developers and game companies now have a far larger demographic to play for, games are now created with the new recruits in mind, and sadly, most companies feel that new gamers who started with the Wii need their games to be easy, shallow, and no sense of loss. I personally think they are selling themselves short.

So, the people who used to be just gamers feel now that they need to set themselves apart from the new gamers because the games that are made to appeal to these new recruits are really a stain on the gaming name as a whole, and they don't want to be something like 'oh you're a gamer! I play Wii sports too!'

Bottom line: Hardcore games are pretty much games that have storyline, or require practice and skill to progress, Casual games are games that can be picked up, and not only played, but won by anyone, these games generally have no sense of story or difficulty curve.

SolemnJedi79

Jedi... you really should blog. You write well.

While it may be true that the word "casual" wasn't used as much before, there still existed a dichotomy amongst gamers. There were PC gamers, who were considered "hard core", and then there were console gamers, who were second rate, not as serious, or just kids (as it was thought.) But all this time, casual games existed, just as species of bugs exist before humans discover them and give them a name. It's only when the video game market grew stagnant while still remaining highly competitive did the industry turn its eyes to this largely untapped market that had been spending the past number of years playing Brickout on their computers and Bejeweled on their mobiles.

But now we have a blurring where there was once a very striking difference between core and casual games as companies produce larger-budget, full releases (resembling core games) to appeal to this crowd. Stupidly, many devs have misunderstood the appeal of those previous casual games. The appeal of those games lacking a real learning curve is that they can be picked up easily without suffering through a tutorial or reading a manual. The appeal is NOT that those games aren't challenging! A difficulty curve is different from a learning curve. Many games are easy enough to play, but hard to be good at.

As a consequence of many devs not understanding this distinction, we have a bunch of full releases targeted to the casual market that are (as you said) easy and shallow, and therefore give the player little sense of accomplishment. We also have a number of traditionally core franchises that used to be for core gamers trying to strike a middle ground by dumbing down gameplay.

I think you're right about core gamers sensing a loss of identity, or possibly just uniqueness. Like the person who discovers that indie band before it makes it big, and then suddenly their band is signed to a major record label and puts out slick CDs produced by Timbaland and everyone loves the band now, the core gamer felt special and unique for recognising greatness before others, and feels that in the process of becoming popular, their band/company has sold out.

The one thing I'll add though is that I don't think casual players are stupid like some of these devs think they are. They also resent the lack of challenge and they aren't eating up that shovelware. These are the people who have spent their time playing puzzle games and word games. You aren't going to entertain them long unless you make something intelligent. The trick is not dumbing down games to be more inclusive, but to make core games less intimidating - the interface more intuitive - in order to bring these players into the fold.

[QUOTE="batsy4life"][QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

It's a myth created by people with Nintendo systems trying to make themselves feel better about their situations

Nintendo has never challenged the gamer. None of the Mario Bros games are hard, Zelda is a cakewalk for anyone who didn't suffer head trauma, and other titles like Metroid just take a little time to sort out.

The idea that the "core Nintendo gamer" is upset is past laughable. They've "supposedly" been playing these games all their lives but now that the spotlight is on them they can't say they enjoy this kind of gaming. Instead they're trying to throw Nintendo under the bus so others wont look at them a certain way.

Jaysonguy

hmmm...i dont see myself as a fan of any company (they all have one purpose after all) and seeing as how the Wii is my 1st nintendo console, i can understand this. Also, the division between "hardcore" and "casual" is odd to me.

I'm a fan of Nintendo, they do a lot of things I like and while they might not always thrill people with their lack of things like online I understand why they chose their path.

The hardcore/casual stuff is nonsense. Don't pay attention to it. We're all casual at some point and then our interest in it decides how we are.

Games aren't casual or hardcore, people are. No one title lifts you to the ranks of hardcore or lowers you to a casual player.

I couldn't have said better myself........that's EXACTLY how I feel..........and for the record I've been a gamer since before the NES.

Would I be a Nintendo core gamer even if I own a PS2, PS3, PSP? I mean I've been with Nintendo since the NES but never got a SNES, N64 nor a GameCube. Instead of going with SNES, iwent with the Sega Genesis. I own the Wii though. Also, I bought the NES once again after my parents sold it years ago and have about 50+ games for it, the power glove, and other old NES items.

Does this make me a Nintendo Core Gamer:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b300/email2003/Picture029.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b300/email2003/Picture010.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b300/email2003/Picture025.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b300/email2003/Picture026.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b300/email2003/Picture021.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b300/email2003/Picture022.jpg

My bad ass shirt:http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b300/email2003/d_11072.jpg

Actually the division between Casual / Hardcore didn't exist before Wii. Nintendo's celebrates 'paradigm' shift to collapse the gulf between Gamer / Non Gamer has only succeeded in creating a new sub genre.

Here's the thing: Before Wii, and to a certain extent DS, the 'Gamer' was a person who played games (simple isn't it?) because there were those who either played, or those who did not, the process of making games was equally simple. It had stayed the same for decades, game developers and companies knew what worked for fans of games, and non gamers either had to jump in and start, or remain non gamers.

Gamers had a certain image (you know, the nerdy kids who don't like sport and would rather stay home than go to a party.. me in other words) since the creation of the Wii and Nintendo's method of dragging non gamers in, the previously mentioned Gamers now feel a certain sense of loss, it may be selfish, but it has to do with the fact that now non gamers can call themselves gamers, and it makes us feel like we've lost a certain identity.

Imagine if you can, all the Goths in the world if suddenly being Goth was the norm. Butit wasn't quite the Goth you remember, wouldn't the previous Goths all stand up and say 'umm.. sorry you're not Goth' and wouldn't the new ones stand up and say 'hey.. I'm wearing black, I'm Goth' ok so the analogy isn't fantastic, but you get the drift.

Since the Wii, developers and game companies now have a far larger demographic to play for, games are now created with the new recruits in mind, and sadly, most companies feel that new gamers who started with the Wii need their games to be easy, shallow, and no sense of loss. I personally think they are selling themselves short.

So, the people who used to be just gamers feel now that they need to set themselves apart from the new gamers because the games that are made to appeal to these new recruits are really a stain on the gaming name as a whole, and they don't want to be something like 'oh you're a gamer! I play Wii sports too!'

Bottom line: Hardcore games are pretty much games that have storyline, or require practice and skill to progress, Casual games are games that can be picked up, and not only played, but won by anyone, these games generally have no sense of story or difficulty curve.

SolemnJedi79

This guy nailed it.

To me it's like the difference between Chess and Checkers. Chess is hardcore while checkers is more casual. That's my analogy.

You are a Nintendo core gamer when.... When you buy your Wii in June '08 and buy Super Mario Galaxy, Super Smash Brothers Brawl, Metroid Prime 3, Zack & Wiki, No More Heroes Twilight Princess, Mario Kart Wii. Resident Evil 4 Wii and try to find deals on all of them and not pay retail price on any of them.

No really, I don't consider myself a Nintendo core gamer, I just consider myself a gamer. Been playing ever since I was about 4/5 years old on a SNES given the system itseld was 4 years old.

Actually the division between Casual / Hardcore didn't exist before Wii. Nintendo's celebrates 'paradigm' shift to collapse the gulf between Gamer / Non Gamer has only succeeded in creating a new sub genre.

Here's the thing: Before Wii, and to a certain extent DS, the 'Gamer' was a person who played games (simple isn't it?) because there were those who either played, or those who did not, the process of making games was equally simple. It had stayed the same for decades, game developers and companies knew what worked for fans of games, and non gamers either had to jump in and start, or remain non gamers.

Gamers had a certain image (you know, the nerdy kids who don't like sport and would rather stay home than go to a party.. me in other words) since the creation of the Wii and Nintendo's method of dragging non gamers in, the previously mentioned Gamers now feel a certain sense of loss, it may be selfish, but it has to do with the fact that now non gamers can call themselves gamers, and it makes us feel like we've lost a certain identity.

Imagine if you can, all the Goths in the world if suddenly being Goth was the norm. Butit wasn't quite the Goth you remember, wouldn't the previous Goths all stand up and say 'umm.. sorry you're not Goth' and wouldn't the new ones stand up and say 'hey.. I'm wearing black, I'm Goth' ok so the analogy isn't fantastic, but you get the drift.

Since the Wii, developers and game companies now have a far larger demographic to play for, games are now created with the new recruits in mind, and sadly, most companies feel that new gamers who started with the Wii need their games to be easy, shallow, and no sense of loss. I personally think they are selling themselves short.

So, the people who used to be just gamers feel now that they need to set themselves apart from the new gamers because the games that are made to appeal to these new recruits are really a stain on the gaming name as a whole, and they don't want to be something like 'oh you're a gamer! I play Wii sports too!'

Bottom line: Hardcore games are pretty much games that have storyline, or require practice and skill to progress, Casual games are games that can be picked up, and not only played, but won by anyone, these games generally have no sense of story or difficulty curve.

SolemnJedi79

a nintendo core gamer is someone who has been with and followed nintendo since the beggining and people say they are forgetting about them because of the casual games and lack of "hardcore" game coming outKeenzach

I mostly agree with this definition, but only uneducated noobs think Nintendo has abandoned them. Games take several years of developement and if you (not you TC) haven't realized yet, Nintendo doesn't generally develop crappy games. Expect great core games every 3+ years.

a core gamer is a gamer that wants to play challenging games, play for highscores and generally gets their kicks out of being better than everyone else at games, and knowing more about them than everyone else

a casual gamer is not one of those people.

monty_4256

Perfect definition.

4.) Wet you pants when you see a new Zelda or mario trailer

alexh_99

Damnit! So close..

a core gamer is a gamer that wants to play challenging games, play for highscores and generally gets their kicks out of being better than everyone else at games, and knowing more about them than everyone else

a casual gamer is not one of those people.

monty_4256

I agree

I don't think that you have to have been with nintendo all the way to be a core gamer but as long as you appreciate the Unique, challenging games that are also fun (aka galaxy, Okami, NMH etc)

[QUOTE="monty_4256"]

a core gamer is a gamer that wants to play challenging games, play for highscores and generally gets their kicks out of being better than everyone else at games, and knowing more about them than everyone else

a casual gamer is not one of those people.

fabz_95

I agree

I don't think that you have to have been with nintendo all the way to be a core gamer but as long as you appreciate the Unique, challenging games that are also fun (aka galaxy, Okami, NMH etc)

So you don't think that casual players play for high-scores: to see what level they can get to in Lemmings or Brickout? How fast they can solve a sudoku puzzle? How many points they can get in that Snake game? How many points in Tetris? Well, if you don't think they play for high-scores, you're wrong. And if you don't think casual games can be challenging, you're wrong about that too. Monty's definition doesn't work.

You're a core gamer when you're loyal no matter what. Even if "Nintendo abonded us".

To me a core/hardcore gamer is someone who lives and breathes videogames, like myself. I've been gaming since I was 5 years old. I grew up with Mario, Zelda, Kirby, Megaman etc. Videogames always have and always will be a huge part of my life, I play them on a daily basis. I'm not ashamed that I play videogames, and I don't care what other people think of me doing so. I'm a gamer and proud of it. If videogames never existed, the world would be a boring place. A core/hardcore gamer is someone who will support videogames regardless of what others think, and be proud of the fact that they play videogames. And you can never have too many videogames either, since the Wii came out I've bought 25 games and that's not including VC games either. A core/hardcore gamer is someone who will buy as many games as they can afford and not care if other people think they're wasting money. It doesn't matter what type of games you play, or for how many hours you spend playing them. A core/hardcore gamer is someone who doesn't need to spend countless hours playing games, as long as you're enjoying every second of what you're doing, that's what counts. I can honestly say that I enjoy playing videogames more than most things.

This is what I think a core/hardcore gamer is.

J_Ford

Right on, I have no better ways of puttin that.

Hrm.. ok. I see a lot of things here I'd like to comment on.

Firstly, that the core/casual thing is limited to Nintendo. That's not correct, there are casual oriented games on other consoles, it's just Nintendo is the talking point for their swing towards casual games of recent years, most other consoles will have casual games as a minority, Nintendo changed that around, hence why they are the current talking point.

I agree that some casual games are good and fun, Tetris lasted for many years and still goes strong, it's the amount of them per console that's caused a problem of late. And the game development mindset that sequels to reknowned core franchises have to somehow be altered to make them more 'accessible' to casual gamers.

Next, that hardcore means M rated, I mean seriously where did that come from? This is gaming not adult movies. Is Mario rated M? No. A core game is basically a game that's made with the same fundamental ideas in mind that have been embedded in games for decades. It's not whether the guy I'm shooting at's head bursts with brain matter or whether he goes up in a puff of cartoon smoke that matters, it's how the game plays. As clicketyclick said, a learning curve is what most gamers crave.

Most casuals (I don't have the data to say 'all') will spend maybe an hour a day if that playing games, so a great depth, learning curve, and progressive storytelling, isn't really needed. If you only played an hour a day, imagine increasing that to 4-5 hours a day, would the same game still satisfy you? It won't be long before boredom sets in.

For the record, I played Wii Sports, for about... 20 minutes, and haven't touched it since. I don't need to play Wii Sports resort to know that I'll probably not play that for more than 20 minutes either. Same goes for Wii Play.. that lasted 10 minutes. And should of been renamed 'how to use the Wiimote: electronic manual' ;)

PS: Clicketyclick, thanks for the compliment, but I've never been big on blogs. I'll stick to forums.

Lol, I also played Wii Sports for about 20 minutes when I first got my Wii... and then quickly swapped the disc out for TP and haven't gone back since.

You make an excellent point that casual players enjoy casual games simply because they are casual players - by definition, they don't play as many hours per week and so games with limited depth can fully entertain them. Trying to appeal to this gaming habit is then probably not the best business strategy. A casual player will buy a Wii and be fully entertained by Wii Sports. Maybe they'll buy Wii Play to get another controller for a friend to play as well.

Because they are completely satisfied by games like these which truly have no ending, they will very infrequently buy more. This results in lower attached rates (how many software titles were bought per Wii sold.) Developers/publishers have almost always made most of their money off software sales, not hardware, and those that are not called Nintendo developing for Wii have to depend solely on software sales. Fewer people purchasing games means smaller profits, and might mean that the Wii, despite its success, will be abandoned by third parties like the GC.

What devs need to do is make accessible games (a limited learning curve) that have a compelling narrative and are challenging (ramp up the difficulty curve.) This will be to games what Harry Potter was to books; HP recruited tons of people who did very little to no reading and turned them into avid readers. You have to present them with a game that is compelling and challenging enough that it will make them want to play more than half an hour per day. You have to give them that "just one more page" or "just till the end of the chapter" feeling when they get to the end of their gaming session. Once they get used to playing for longer hours, their modest selection of casual titles will no longer hold their interest (for the reason SolemnJedi explained.)

As it stands though, many companies are trying to make casual titles and core gamers won't touch them, but neither will casual players for the most part. Either they recognise a lack of quality, recognise a lack of challenge, or they are simply fully satisfied with their copies of Wii Sports, Wii Fit, and Elebits. Why would they buy another?

The problem is not that devs want to make games more accessible; it's that they're doing it wrong.

I agree, but it isn't the first time, the creators of entertainment have always interpreted their fanbases incorrectly. Sometimes it can be something tiny (like changing the Star Trek opening theme from orchestral to vocal for Enterprise) or sometimes it can be something larger (like changing the core age demographic in the Star Wars prequels to pre-mid teen)

The Entertainment industry is rife with examples of this sort of thing. Gaming is just the latest.

Games like Zack and Wiki are really the kind of thing that ought to be looked at to casual players, or new entries into the gaming world. It's early levels are relatively easy, it has a story and progressive narrative, and it can be played for short periods to long hours with little to no loss in focus. However for the core audience it gets progressively harder, and can take quite a few frustrating hours to complete.

There are other types of games that the casual audience would greatly benefit from, games like Space Quest and Kings Quest were shining examples of a simple game that could provide great depth. Games do not have to be mindless wiimote waggling with no end in site.

However there are also people that are quite happy simply raising an imaginary dog on the DS, or doing Sodoku puzzles. Note that I have no issues with the DS as a handheld, it's managed quite well to cater to ALL audiences, my beef (as many others will agree) is that the Wii isn't quite the correct medium to take that experiment further, because fundamentally, the console market has a hard time accepting those types of 'touch generation' games.

I still play my DS and have quite some games on it. And I've noticed that a lot of companies (Square-Enix being the prime one) are choosing DS over Wii to make their core franchise games, this shows that these companies feel that the DS provides a greater launching pad for sales than the Wii does. Another case of developers mishandling things. I'd be quite happy to see remakes of Final Fantasy III,IV,V on Wii as opposed to DS, or as well as. But SE, as some other developers are doing, are shunning the Wii despite its record sales.

I can quite easily name a few franchises that would benefit by having Wii remakes or sequels. Kingdom Hearts leaps to mind immediately, Command and Conquer (generally PC games don't go well with consoles but considering the point and click interface..), Advance Wars. But Developers just aren't grabbing the opportunities, instead they would rather give out 'wiimote wagglers' with little depth.

You liked Nintendo regardless of what people thought or said about them.

Also, if you don't think that Mario games are childish and play them just as much as Metroid and Zelda.

I thought this was one of those joke-y threads, and even though it isn't, I'm going to treat is as such.

You know you are a Nintendo core gamer when you think F. Scott Fitzgerald's marriage wasn't so bad, because at least his wife was named Zelda. (ba da bum) Thank you.

You are a Nintendo core gamer when....(batsy4life

...when your heart is broken because someone inside Nintendo is destroying everything you ever loved.