You were waiting for this: ZELDA SPECULATION - A glimpse of how huge it can be

Zelda news is my Gatorade, I feel refreshed, locked and loaded. And the latest Miyamoto words, while few, are enough to drive my mind crazy. You sure were excited as well, but combine them with other stuff we know, and you'll realize there is actually something genuinely HUGE behind them.

Then, here we go! Let's start with a few chosen quotes:

"But he says he has a child-like excitement about something new like this, and he wants to let us in on the info immediately."

- Gamespot, on Aonuma at E3 2007, talking about Zelda Wii.

"I don't necessarily think it will change that drastically, but I think that Zelda is a franchise that does need some big new unique ideas"

- IGN, reporting on Miyamoto talking about Zelda Wii, at E3 2008.

"Right now, for each game they are mainly iterating on variations of controls, level designs, etc.. so he wants to see the series evolve in more meaningful ways."

- GoNintendo, on Miyamoto at E3 2009, on Zelda Wii.



What do we learn?

Three E3's, three major hints on how big they're planning it to be. According to the second quote, it will still be Zelda. But according to all quotes, it will be new Zelda. The most important one is the third quote: Miyamoto had already admitted Zelda needed "big unique ideas", but this E3, he went as far as admitting the current flaws of the series, which is, to put it bluntly "too much of the same for too long". Zelda gets its share of new stuff every game, but since 1998, it has indeed been following Ocarina of Time's structure.

And that's huge. When Nintendo admits they're getting repetitive and want to change, they do it. With a BAM. That is Miyamoto getting serious, and I remember the last time Nintendo went serious and talked about change, we ended up with the DS and the Wii. Now, what exactly is supposed to change in Zelda? Time for the next quote:

"Miyamoto's idea is.. to give the player a more impacting experience and really feel Link's journey through the game, by creating memories of the characters you meet and things you face along the way."

- GoNintendo, on Miyamoto at E3 2009



What does it mean?

Let's first focus on "give the player a more impacting experience and really feel Link's journey through the game". At first, this might be a simple matter of making the game more grandiose, with a more fleshed out adventure in which you can really feel how Link gets more and more implicated in the bigger schemes of the world of Hyrule. So, bigger production values. Is that all? Hm, it also seems that "creating memories of the characters you meet" has something to do in there. May Nintendo add something to how we interact with NPCs?

"When the player is reading text on the screen, they're inserting a part of themselves, their imagination, into the reading. They fill out the world. But with fully spoken dialogue, everything about the character becomes fixed in place, and you lose a bit of that imaginative aspect." However, he added, Nintendo has "some ideas" about how to use vocals in a new and interesting manner, although nothing's been finalised yet."

- Eurogamer, on Aonuma explaining why Twilight Princess wouldn't feature voice acting, back in 2005

"There are many games out there that use voice recording and for me, if I were to choose to include voice acting in a Zelda game, it would have to change the game dramatically and make other people realize that it's a completely new way of using voices."

- IGN, on Aonuma at GDC 2007

Ah, Nintendo, as stubborn as ever! They just can't do something like everyone else would. So, they would only add voice acting in a Zelda game if it changed the way voice acting is used. And now they're saying they want NPCs to be more memorable. Oh, I'm so willing to add 2 and 2 here...



But what about the gameplay itself?

Miyamoto's quote goes actually further:

"These would be things that would differ for each person as they play their own way through, so everyone would have unique memories. How you approach a dungeon, solve a puzzle, or complete a side quest all add to this."

- GoNintendo, on Miyamoto at E3 2009

Now, I was first afraid that simply means something like "the game will be so huge and varied that each gamer will have their own favorite moments". That's nice, yeah, but I don't believe Miyamoto would be so sure of it unless the game was actually built around that concept. And here is where things start to get wild:

Each gamer will be able to choose how to approach a dungeon or solve a puzzle, that's what you're really telling us, Shiggy? Looks like puzzles are getting a real upgrade here. I can only think of one kind of puzzle that can be really solved in a unique way depending on the gamer: real time physics based puzzles. Not your standard "press switch door opens". It seems now Link will be able to mess around with his environment free styl.e with much more interaction. And I can only begin to think what kind of items will allow Link to have that much freedom.

Talking about freedom, if each gamer is supposed to have his own memories about the adventure, does that mean... a multiple paths game? Different endings? Or, even above this, an open world where your decisions do reflect in the behaviour of NPCs? Now that's one Hyrule we have yet to see...



Isn't this getting too complex for a Nintendo game?

Indeed, it seems that lately Nintendo has been "dumbing down" their games for the sake of the casual audience... Could they suddenly do the opposite?

"Super Mario Bros. Wii may have a surprise in store for gamers when it hits later this year. Speaking to Kotaku at E3 today, Nintendo's Shigeru Miyamoto seem to let slip that the game may include at least an initial glimpse at a revolutionary save system first hinted at in a patent filed by Miyamoto last year."

- Kotaku, on Nintendo mysterious patent

They're talking about that patented hint system that would, basically, allow the gamer to let the game "play itself" if he or she is having trouble. And that until the player judges he or she got enough help. A much more reasonable solution than making an easy game, as it helps novices, but keeps the difficulty a veteran expects. And it seems it will already kick off in the next Mario game.

Yet another detail, Super Mario Galaxy 2 is supposed to be harder than the first game... Is it because of this hint system? Whether it is or not, Nintendo is willing to make harder games, and has a tool that allows new gamers to enjoy these games. No, no worries here, Zelda Wii has no reason to be dumbed down.


All in all...

All in all, I believe we're in for a deadly epic Zelda. I'm feeling at least the following:

- A lot deeper story
- Mechanics that allow each gamer to approach the game as he or she feels like
- All new interaction between Link and the environment
- A lot more meaningful NPCs

And the likely MotionPlus support is just the cherry on top of the cake. ;)

You're either reading way too far into this, or you're my hero again.

Awesome thread. Wintry, you should include the quote from the ign live blog where Miyamoto proposed the game may be played ONLY with Wiimotion plus (if you haven't included it already)

Great thread, don't have time to respond much on Zelda stuff before work but kudos to you!

I do have to say, this thread is pretty awesome :D

I can't wait for a new Zelda, I'm almost done playing through Majora's Mask for the first time, and after that I'll have to look forward to something, and it looks now like a new Zelda in the next year or two is exactly what I'm going to be looking forward to. :P

The hint system would be a nice addition, because a lot of times in Zelda games I find it difficult to solve some things. So now, it'd be a little easier but still hard at the same time...if that makes sense. :P

i cant wait for a new zelda phantom hourglass was good for me but i beat it in atleast 5-7 hours not to long.

i just want a very long zelda game

Excellent post Wintry_Flutist! :lol:

I'm already ultra hyped! I expect this game to come out by November 2010. :D

I don't think all this Nintendo awsomeness is good for my health--I may have a heart attack!:o

I don't think all this Nintendo awsomeness is good for my health--I may have a heart attack!:o

blankshore

Wow, very ambitious post Wintry_flutist! Made me post for the first time in.. well, a long time.

So, what could the big change be...

To me, Zelda games are adventure action games, with very light rpg elements. Now what could Nintendo do to radically change the Zelda concept, if that's actually what they're hinting at.

I agree with you that Zelda has stayed the same conceptually since Ocarina of Time, if you have played the games since then you can't deny this.

So what are they going to do about the problem with too little change for too long? Perhaps they need to change the whole idea behind Zelda, i.e. open world, explore, undertake optional story wise meaningless mini side quests, do some dungeon crawling to get to the treasure, get the key for the boss, kill the boss with said treasure, get some token that moves the story forward and so on. I'm not bashing Zelda here, I really love the series and its universe, but I can also see the problem, it's been getting very familiar over the years, if you've played a few Zelda games you're not likely going to be surprised a lot, sure Twilight Princess was and is a great game, but can Nintendo really get away with another Zelda based on the exact same concept?

If you're starting fresh and haven't played a Zelda game before, there's no problem, you'll get an amazing game experience that will be with you for a long time. But, if you, and this crowd is probably getting quite large, have played other Zelda games before, for better and for worse you'll be right at home with the next game. Nintendo seems to be recognizing this problem and are willing to do something about it. But what should and can they do?

Would it be enough of a change to add a deeper story, more action, more stuff and fluff? Personally I'd say the story was plenty deep in most Zelda games, especially TP, action wise the games are well balanced, and there's usually enough fun things to do.

Maybe it's the whole concept that needs to change, as I said I consider Zelda to be an action adventure game, what if Nintendo changed Zelda to be more of a RPG game, building on the typical Zelda story but with many deep characters, alternate endings, leveling and basically more choices for the player? It might work if done right, take it too far and it wouldn't be Zelda anymore.

Sometimes I think that the Zelda universe could be so much more than what it is now, perhaps that it could be developed into a more mature and realistic game world with deep rpg elements, higher difficulty, are there potential outside Hyrule?. You have to admit there's potential for this, but at the same time that would mean that the, while fun, utterly unrealistic dungeon crawling would have to disappear, quirky characters would probably have to go, finding rupees in pots and grass would not fit in. In the end it just wouldn't be Zelda.

Nintendo has a real dilemma here; how to change Zelda while still keeping its soul intact. The problem with us older gamers is that we both want something new, but we don't want the old to change ;)

One solution could be what seems to be happening now with the Wii and DS, there's two different Zelda series being developed, the DS series with the cel shaded graphics from Wind Waker, and the Wii series with the more realistic look, but still the same core gameplay and mechanics. Perhaps with the Next Wii game we will see a break from the traditional Zelda concept and the beginning of a new kind of Zelda on Wii while still keeping the old school Zelda on DS.

[QUOTE="blankshore"]

I don't think all this Nintendo awsomeness is good for my health--I may have a heart attack!:o

enterawesome

:lol: That was brilliant. I thought Nintendo's E3 was amazing, but I really don't get that vitality thing. HOWEVER: wouldn't it be cool if you could use it while playing, say, Silent Hill: Shattered Memories, and it measured your fear level?!

*ahem* but anyways, Zelda. Yeah that's going to be great! Although, to be brutally honest, I've always preferred young Link.

i can see it being a more open hyrule, less linear. like Fallout 3 or elder scrolls

perhaps slightly more steampunk with muskets, etc.

with an open world, you apparfoach the game, story and dungeons at your own pace, with various ways to beat any dungeon except the main plot ones.

like there could be a different way to beat the forest dungeon if you have the items or abilities from beating other various fire, water, ice, dungeons.

i belive it should be third person and first person, like fallout

first person for precise Motio plus sword combat, and third person at all times if ppl wish to avoid FP view at all times

first person view is alrady allowed in zelda you just can't move

can you imagine motion plus using the arrows? oh dear. awesome

Why don't they just remove the treasures from the dungeons, get rid of the story bits out side the basic story, put more focus on exploration and developing a strategic veiw on what items to get rather than "you need this item to complete this dungeon"

Given the development time of this game I have little reason to doubt it won't be epic.

they way you've described it makes it sound like my dream game lol. that would be aweesome if a zelda turned out that way!

Maybe it's just me but I think that this can lead to a game without link no? I mean, imagine playing with someone that looks nothing like the hero of time. The interaction with the npc's would be different then when you play with link no? You try to save Hyrule while the people inside wait for the Hero of time. Don't know if you guys understand cause i'm no good at explanations. Anyway, no doubt the next Zelda game will be a great one.

Maybe it's just me but I think that this can lead to a game without link no? I mean, imagine playing with someone that looks nothing like the hero of time. The interaction with the npc's would be different then when you play with link no? You try to save Hyrule while the people inside wait for the Hero of time. Don't know if you guys understand cause i'm no good at explanations. Anyway, no doubt the next Zelda game will be a great one.

ShuichiChamp24

You're either reading way too far into this, or you're my hero again.

nintendofreak_2

I'm going with this. Rarely do I read long posts like that, but I did, and am quite interesting in your ideas. It would be epic if this all came to fruition.

[QUOTE="nintendofreak_2"]

You're either reading way too far into this, or you're my hero again.

freek666

I'm going with this. Rarely do I read long posts like that, but I did, and am quite interesting in your ideas. It would be epic if this all came to fruition.

OH SWEET MERCY YES!

Bring it on Nintendo!

*Wets pants* So much for "no zelda"! :DHead_of_games

I'm saying this is worth a shameless bump.

:D

[QUOTE="blankshore"]

I don't think all this Nintendo awsomeness is good for my health--I may have a heart attack!:o

enterawesome

anyway i started to feel this could be huge right after Miyamoto said that TP would be the last game to follow the classic formula, the last time he broke from the mold we got OoT quite arguably the greatest game ever, (please FF7 fans now is not the time to start that arguement again)

who cares about zelda, golden sun is coming!Lisandro_v22

Interesting thoughts. I, too, have been wondering if this new Zelda game was going to be taking a departure from the series in some way. For me, judging how Nintendo and Miyamoto have been doing things this generation not only with the Wii, but with newer concepts and twist on existing franchises (i.e. Galaxy/Galaxy 2), I wouldn't be surprised if Zelda got the same thing.

But someone did bring up the point as to how to change the series without completely throwing out the old. I suppose there is that fine line between old and new which makes it a bit harder for the Zelda series to change. I mean, it's entirely possible for an overhaul of some kind, but how to do so is the real mystery. Whereas Super Mario Galaxy mostly just changed how the enviornments worked, with the core 3-D Mario mechanics remained pretty much the same as they have since Super Mario 64.

It's easy for me to see how they could potentially break the current cycle of: Gather 3-4 important items, Gain Master Sword, Gather more important items, Ganon/Ganondorf, as they've used that since A Link to the Past. And, I think most Zelda incarnations have been relatively diverse in their stories. However, I think most of us are looking for a nice mix of old and new. I know I am.

[QUOTE="Lisandro_v22"]who cares about zelda, golden sun is coming!Sepewrath

I've been debating on how all this is going to work. I wonder how much change the series needs?

a complete overhaul? Something unique like PH (with the controls)? What will satisfy us?

They definitely have a challenge on their hands, that's for sure. I think this will be Miyamoto's last huge project..... he'll go out with a bang, or at least attempt to.

no, no. miyamoto is immortal, and he will produce games for nintendo and provide joy to us all with his creations until the end of time.

seriously now. it gets mighty hard to think what in the zelda franchise could be changed. i don't know... seeing it on a pedestal as i see it, it breaks my heart to see the formula being tweaked too much. but at the same time i'm aware that this series would certainly benefit from some inovations... oh, boy. i wanna see how it'll turn out.

Must............lower............hype.............too................powerful. Stop it wintry! Your making me want a game that we have no idea about!! :cry:

Sounds like Link will have a voice, but it will be yours.... (Wii speak)...

or maybe I'm way off. :P