Zelda Theory Discussion: Is PH set in Hyrule?

Ok guys, this is a topic on possible connections in the Zelda Universe, namely one in particular. This topic is not for posting time theories or anything like that however this theory does rely on the split timeline theory. We are merely discussing a possible connection in Zelda: Phantom Hourglass.

WARNING WW, LA AND PH SPOILERS

The idea and theory im proposing today is what if PH was set in Hyrule? Or more specifically, the timeline in which Hyrule isn't flooded. PH's ending confirmed the Link and Tetra were sent to another world. In WW, the gorons where dieing out and the Rito flourished in land. In PH, Gorons have pretty big community and the Rito are no where to be seen. If you look back at LA it pretty much confirms there is a sea in Hyrule and the wind fish looked very close to a whale. In PH the old man turns out to be The Ocean King and after you defeat Bellum, The Ocean King takes a similar form of a whale. The Ocean King also tells Link and Tetra that they is in another world and not in their own.

What if, this world was the parallel Hyrule? What if these "sage" like Whales exisit in the seas of Hyrule. A "sage" like Whale features in LA but not in WW and returns in PH. Rito only existed in hyrule B (WW Hyrule) because of the flood so they don't exist in Hyrule A. Gorons are dieing out in WW but they flourish in Hyrule A which also explains they have quite an established community in PH. Another noticeable thing in PH was the fairies. They strike a large resemblance to the OoT ones and look completely different from WW ones. Not the best but I've got more still. Perhaps one of the more stronger arguements is that WW only had 3 gossip stone parts left in exisitance, yet if Hyrule didn't flood they probably would remain intact. In PH you can find Gossop stones in nearly every cave, village, island and dungeon.

I also want to clarify that I'm not saying the Ocean King is the same Whale Sage guy we saw in LA but it could be set in a very near place.

So what do you think? Could PH's alternate world actually be the other timeline?

DS is a PH game. Please post this in the DS boards.Lunar52

I chuckled at this.

Anyway, I didnt really read it (just read this other huge post) so I'm just gonna say that with the timeline split theory, LA is in a different timeline from WW and PH. LA happened between Majoras Mask and the first game.

It concerns all of Zelda but mostly WW, PH and LA. PH isn't a sea we couldnt go to in WW, it is an entirely different world. radicalplace

I don't remember any mention that it wasn't the Great Sea in the game.

Hence, I'll call the least hypothesis principle on it and say it's a part of the sea the King of Red Lions didn't allow us to go. It explains everything and there's no need to write a wall of text to demonstrate it.

What game is LACPrince1000

Link's Awakening on GameBoy and GameBoy Color.

They were sent to the seas we can't go to in WW.Wintry_Flutist

Woh!!! I never thought of it that way, you may be right.darkmark91

yay someone finally got it.

[QUOTE="radicalplace"]It concerns all of Zelda but mostly WW, PH and LA. PH isn't a sea we couldnt go to in WW, it is an entirely different world. Wintry_Flutist

I don't remember any mention that it wasn't the Great Sea in the game.

Hence, I'll call the least hypothesis principle on it and say it's a part of the sea the King of Red Lions didn't allow us to go. It explains everything and there's no need to write a wall of text to demonstrate it.

No, they quite clearly said at the end it isn't part of the Great Sea, hence why Tetra's crew were no where to be seen.

Anyway, I didnt really read it (just read this other huge post) so I'm just gonna say that with the timeline split theory, LA is in a different timeline from WW and PH. LA happened between Majoras Mask and the first game.

freek666

I already knew this... If you read it you would have known this :P

Only one person seems to have understood this in full detail... hmm... is it difficult to read?

[QUOTE="radicalplace"]

No, they quite clearly said at the end it isn't part of the Great Sea, hence why Tetra's crew were no where to be seen.

Wintry_Flutist

Of course they weren't anywhere to be seen, as they stayed in the "original" Great Sea. Besides, we can assume getting where PH is set is not a simple matter of picking a boat and sailing off chart in WW map. The King of Red Lions, who is friggin facing Ganondorf, wouldn't be afraid of just going a few miles away... There's some serious $#!T going on beyond the sea we see in WW.

I didn't get a word of that...

I actually think it takes place in the same realm as LA. What I mean to say is some sort of DreamWorld. Both LA and PH seemed closely linked. You have link on islands, you have him wake up at the end of the game, and you have whale like dieties. So I think In PH he just was able to adventure out into the dream worlds sea instead of being confined to one island.

I actually think it takes place in the same realm as LA. What I mean to say is some sort of DreamWorld. Both LA and PH seemed closely linked. You have link on islands, you have him wake up at the end of the game, and you have whale like dieties. So I think In PH he just was able to adventure out into the dream worlds sea instead of being confined to one island.

Minishdriveby

I agree with this. LA and PH could very easily take place in the same realms. I've also heard a theory that PH takes place in flooded Termina, and I pretty much believed that until now.

At the end of Wind Waker it says I think Link and Tetra try to find a new land there own land.

[QUOTE="Minishdriveby"]

I actually think it takes place in the same realm as LA. What I mean to say is some sort of DreamWorld. Both LA and PH seemed closely linked. You have link on islands, you have him wake up at the end of the game, and you have whale like dieties. So I think In PH he just was able to adventure out into the dream worlds sea instead of being confined to one island.

k_smoove

I agree with this. LA and PH could very easily take place in the same realms.

Except that LA supposedly takes place after the events of ALttP, which is after OoT, in which you face Ganon. Yet WW tells us that, in the old link timeline, there is no Link present to fight Ganon (since he was sent back to live his childhood) so the goddesses immediately flooded Hyrule to trap Ganon. As PH takes place after WW and is a DIRECT sequel, PH must also be the result of the adult link timeline. But you'll have a hard time placing LA in the adult timeline because it would also place ALttP in the adult timeline, which is improbable because it falsifies the lore of WW (thanks to the fight with Ganon that would now take place between adult OoT and WW.)

[QUOTE="k_smoove"][QUOTE="Minishdriveby"]

I actually think it takes place in the same realm as LA. What I mean to say is some sort of DreamWorld. Both LA and PH seemed closely linked. You have link on islands, you have him wake up at the end of the game, and you have whale like dieties. So I think In PH he just was able to adventure out into the dream worlds sea instead of being confined to one island.

clicketyclick

I agree with this. LA and PH could very easily take place in the same realms.

Except that LA supposedly takes place after the events of ALttP, which is after OoT, in which you face Ganon. Yet WW tells us that, in the old link timeline, there is no Link present to fight Ganon (since he was sent back to live his childhood) so the goddesses immediately flooded Hyrule to trap Ganon. As PH takes place after WW and is a DIRECT sequel, PH must also be the result of the adult link timeline. But you'll have a hard time placing LA in the adult timeline because it would also place ALttP in the adult timeline, which is improbable because it falsifies the lore of WW (thanks to the fight with Ganon that would now take place between adult OoT and WW.)

I'm just saying that they could be in the same "dream world". PH clearly takes place outside of WW's realm, due to the ending. LA was also just a dream-like experience. They both had whale-like deities, both were in a "dream world", and both were set on islands. Therefore, it's not hard to imagine the two games taking place in the same world, but not necessarily the same islands (although hundreds of years have passed between LA and WW). I doubt the dream world would be affected by the flooding and the split timeline.

[QUOTE="clicketyclick"][QUOTE="k_smoove"][QUOTE="Minishdriveby"]

I actually think it takes place in the same realm as LA. What I mean to say is some sort of DreamWorld. Both LA and PH seemed closely linked. You have link on islands, you have him wake up at the end of the game, and you have whale like dieties. So I think In PH he just was able to adventure out into the dream worlds sea instead of being confined to one island.

k_smoove

I agree with this. LA and PH could very easily take place in the same realms.

Except that LA supposedly takes place after the events of ALttP, which is after OoT, in which you face Ganon. Yet WW tells us that, in the old link timeline, there is no Link present to fight Ganon (since he was sent back to live his childhood) so the goddesses immediately flooded Hyrule to trap Ganon. As PH takes place after WW and is a DIRECT sequel, PH must also be the result of the adult link timeline. But you'll have a hard time placing LA in the adult timeline because it would also place ALttP in the adult timeline, which is improbable because it falsifies the lore of WW (thanks to the fight with Ganon that would now take place between adult OoT and WW.)

I'm just saying that they could be in the same "dream world". PH clearly takes place outside of WW's realm, due to the ending. LA was also just a dream-like experience. They both had whale-like deities, both were in a "dream world", and both were set on islands. Therefore, it's not hard to imagine the two games taking place in the same world, but not necessarily the same islands (although hundreds of years have passed between LA and WW). I doubt the dream world would be affected by the flooding and the split timeline.

Yeap that's pretty much what I was going to say.

I'm just saying that they could be in the same "dream world". PH clearly takes place outside of WW's realm, due to the ending. LA was also just a dream-like experience. They both had whale-like deities, both were in a "dream world", and both were set on islands. Therefore, it's not hard to imagine the two games taking place in the same world, but not necessarily the same islands (although hundreds of years have passed between LA and WW). I doubt the dream world would be affected by the flooding and the split timeline.

k_smoove

I already explained how it would be affected. PH features Link and Tetra, the same characters from WW. WW explains that they are sailing on top of the flooded Hyrule, and the reason that things are so damp is because in the adult link OoT timeline, there was no link left to fight Ganon (because Link was sent back to childhood, and then MM picks up), so they had to trap Ganon underwater. And as I explained, LA doesn't fit into the adult link timeline because you fight Ganon, contradicting the story of WW/PH.

And PH does not "clearly take placeoutside of WW's realm". In PH there are two seemingly parallel worlds. Zelda and Tetra's adventure after the appearance of the Ghost Ship (meeting Linebeck and the Ocean King) is what you might consider the dream world. But at the end of the game, they return to the "real world" - which can only be assumed to be WW's world. And even then, the supposed "dream world" is interconnected with the real world in PH because Linebeck (from the "dream world") is spotted in the real world with the ship that has all the trimmings that you spent more than 10 minutes acquiring (despite your crew insisting you were only gone for 10 minutes.) So the whole of PH likely takes place in the same ocean, which is the same one as WW.

But regardless of whether or not you accept that it's not really a dream world in PH, you must accept that it is impossible that LA takes place in the same world. The sea in at least the beginning and end part of PH is a result of the flooding of Hyrule, which happened in the adult link timeline. LA follows ALttP in which Ganon is fought. But Hyrule was flooded, forming the ocean of WW and PH, for the very reason that there was no Link to fight Ganon.

[QUOTE="k_smoove"]I'm just saying that they could be in the same "dream world". PH clearly takes place outside of WW's realm, due to the ending. LA was also just a dream-like experience. They both had whale-like deities, both were in a "dream world", and both were set on islands. Therefore, it's not hard to imagine the two games taking place in the same world, but not necessarily the same islands (although hundreds of years have passed between LA and WW). I doubt the dream world would be affected by the flooding and the split timeline.

clicketyclick

I already explained how it would be affected. PH features Link and Tetra, the same characters from WW. WW explains that they are sailing on top of the flooded Hyrule, and the reason that things are so damp is because in the adult link OoT timeline, there was no link left to fight Ganon (because Link was sent back to childhood, and then MM picks up), so they had to trap Ganon underwater. And as I explained, LA doesn't fit into the adult link timeline because you fight Ganon, contradicting the story of WW/PH.

And PH does not "clearly take placeoutside of WW's realm". In PH there are two seemingly parallel worlds. Zelda and Tetra's adventure after the appearance of the Ghost Ship (meeting Linebeck and the Ocean King) is what you might consider the dream world. But at the end of the game, they return to the "real world" - which can only be assumed to be WW's world. And even then, the supposed "dream world" is interconnected with the real world in PH because Linebeck (from the "dream world") is spotted in the real world with the ship that has all the trimmings that you spent more than 10 minutes acquiring. So the whole of PH likely takes place in the same ocean, which is the same one as WW.

But regardless of whether or not you accept that it's not really a dream world in PH, you must accept that it is impossible that LA takes place in the same world. The sea in at least the beginning and end part of PH is a result of the flooding of Hyrule, which happened in the adult link timeline. LA follows ALttP in which Ganon is fought. But Hyrule was flooded, forming the ocean of WW and PH, for the very reason that there was no Link to fight Ganon.

If it's a dreamworld can it not be connected to both timelines? There could be 2 alterante universes but only 1 dreamworld. Also, if you remember in PH Linebeck was given one wish by the Ocean King, that was to have his ship back. You wak up and see his ship sailing. In LA, The Wind Fish gives Marin a wish, I think it was wings, or becoming a bird if you played the DX version. But anyway After link wakes up he sees Marin with her wish granted.

Just one more similarity between the games.

If it's a dreamworld can it not be connected to both timelines? There could be 2 alterante universes but only 1 dreamworld. Also, if you remember in PH Linebeck was given one wish by the Ocean King, that was to have his ship back. You wak up and see his ship sailing. In LA, The Wind Fish gives Marin a wish, I think it was wings, or becoming a bird if you played the DX version. But anyway After link wakes up he sees Marin with her wish granted.

Just one more similarity between the games.

Minishdriveby

We all know Nintendo recycles plots. Okay, for argument's sake, let's assume the adventure in PH took place in a dreamworld. As you said, Link "wakes up". In the game. He wakes up. In the real world. Ergo we would say that Link was having a dream while in the world of WW. Now the same is true with LA, he wakes up, and he wakes up to the world of ALttP (which takes place right before - the same LInk.)

So even while these are dreamworlds, the bodies of the Links in PH and LA are in the real worlds the entire time, which are WW and ALttP respectively. It's fanciful speculation that the Link of PH and his predecessor in LA are dreaming of the same world, but it is impossible for the two games to be set in the same world, because for PH, that is a world which is flooded in order to trap Ganon because there was no-one to fight him, and for LA, it is a world in which he has just defeated Ganon and is traveling over the sea to find more threats to the realm. i.e. Different universes.

Dream World doesn't get flooded. Its not Hyrule.

Lets start from the top of their theory again. A little while after Hyrule was created these Whale Deities create their own world which we will call dreamworld. Regardless of each game's placement on the timeline there is allways a dreamworld. When the timeline splits the dreamworld either follows its own separate path parallel and can be visited separately. Either that or there is a dream world for each side of the timeline and it two splits and runs beside each one.

Also Wintry Fultrist. I have played all through WW and PH. Your post doesn't make sense because of all the grammer mistakes...

Dream World doesn't get flooded. Its not Hyrule.Lets start from the top of their theory again. A little while after Hyrule was created these Whale Deities create their own world which we will call dreamworld. Regardless of each game's placement on the timeline there is allways a dreamworld. When the timeline splits the dreamworld either follows its own separate path parallel and can be visited separately. Either that or there is a dream world for each side of the timeline and it two splits and runs beside each one.radicalplace

I really don't know how many times I can explain this again in different words. PH and LA are not entirely set in dream worlds, even if you accept that it is partly set in dream worlds (though that is debatable quite clearly.) Let's provisionally accept that the action in LA and PH takes place in the Dream World. But the beginning (before they enter the Dream World) and end (when they return from the Dream World) of both games are set in the real world. As well, if they are merely dreaming, their bodies are still in the real world (just like how when you dream, your body doesn't disappear to inhabit your dream.)

CONSEQUENTLY, LA and PH cannot take place in the same timeline, because PH belongs with WW and LA belongs with ALttP as they are direct continuations of those two games, respectively. ALttP can only belong to the Young Link Timeline and WW can only belong to the Adult Link — or as I prefer to call it, the Missing Link — Timeline.

Also Wintry Fultrist. I have played all through WW and PH. Your post doesn't make sense because of all the grammer mistakes...radicalplace

His name is Wintry Flutist, and it's spelt "grammar", not "grammer". Do you want me to explain what he said?

[QUOTE="radicalplace"]Dream World doesn't get flooded. Its not Hyrule.Lets start from the top of their theory again. A little while after Hyrule was created these Whale Deities create their own world which we will call dreamworld. Regardless of each game's placement on the timeline there is allways a dreamworld. When the timeline splits the dreamworld either follows its own separate path parallel and can be visited separately. Either that or there is a dream world for each side of the timeline and it two splits and runs beside each one.clicketyclick

I really don't know how many times I can explain this again in different words. PH and LA are not entirely set in dream worlds, even if you accept that it is partly set in dream worlds (though that is debatable quite clearly.) Let's provisionally accept that the action in LA and PH takes place in the Dream World. But the beginning (before they enter the Dream World) and end (when they return from the Dream World) of both games are set in the real world. As well, if they are merely dreaming, their bodies are still in the real world (just like how when you dream, your body doesn't disappear to inhabit your dream.)

CONSEQUENTLY, LA and PH cannot take place in the same timeline, because PH belongs with WW and LA belongs with ALttP as they are direct continuations of those two games, respectively. ALttP can only belong to the Young Link Timeline and WW can only belong to the Adult Link — or as I prefer to call it, the Missing Link — Timeline.

Also Wintry Fultrist. I have played all through WW and PH. Your post doesn't make sense because of all the grammer mistakes...radicalplace

His name is Wintry Flutist, and it's spelt "grammar", not "grammer". Do you want me to explain what he said?

Great we start out in two seperate worlds. The games play in one world. WE GET YOUR POINT. So stop pushing something that many people already know.

DS is a PH game. Please post this in the DS boards.Lunar52

haha you mean 'PH is a DS game.' :P

Great we start out in two seperate worlds. The games play in one world. WE GET YOUR POINT. So stop pushing something that many people already know.

Minishdriveby

Quite clearly, not everyone gets it, hence why I am explaining over and over to them that LA and PH are not in the same realm. If you understand it, great, I'm not explaining to you. But these guys don't get it.

[QUOTE="Minishdriveby"]

Great we start out in two seperate worlds. The games play in one world. WE GET YOUR POINT. So stop pushing something that many people already know.

clicketyclick

Quite clearly, not everyone gets it, hence why I am explaining over and over to them that LA and PH are not in the same universe. If you understand it, great, I'm not explaining to you. But these guys don't get it.

Yes they do... they've never argued about saying there on different time lines.

The whole argument was going like this.

Me= I think the two games take place in the same world what I mean by this is a dream world

You= NO, cause there are two time lines

Me= The Dreamworld may intertwine with the two timelines

You= OH yeah well there body stays in their seperate worlds :cry:

Everyone else= yeah I think they could take place in a dreamworld, even though both games are disconnected by the timelines they are connected by the dreamworld.

This is pretty much how it's been. for pretty much the whole thread.

Yes they do... they've never argued about saying there on different time lines.

The whole argument was going like this.

Me= I think the two games take place in the same world what I mean by this is a dream world

You= NO, cause there are two time lines

Me= The Dreamworld may intertwine with the two timelines

You= OH yeah well there body stays in their seperate worlds :cry:

Everyone else= yeah I think they could take place in a dreamworld, even though both games are disconnected by the timelines they are connected by the dreamworld.

This is pretty much how it's been. for pretty much the whole thread.

Minishdriveby

Orly?

LA and PH could very easily take place in the same realms.k_smoove

Same realm = same timeline, and he's talking about the game as a whole.

Your notion of the dreamworlds is fanciful speculation with no bearing on anything (i.e. so what?), and Wintry Flutist's proposal makes more sense. If they seem similar, it's only because Nintendo recycles everything. Every Zelda game feels like the last and has a similar plot with similar characters. They keep using the same game mechanics, so the similarity is no indication of anything except that Nintendo should probably think of hiring more Game Designers.

[QUOTE="Minishdriveby"]

Yes they do... they've never argued about saying there on different time lines.

The whole argument was going like this.

Me= I think the two games take place in the same world what I mean by this is a dream world

You= NO, cause there are two time lines

Me= The Dreamworld may intertwine with the two timelines

You= OH yeah well there body stays in their seperate worlds :cry:

Everyone else= yeah I think they could take place in a dreamworld, even though both games are disconnected by the timelines they are connected by the dreamworld.

This is pretty much how it's been. for pretty much the whole thread.

clicketyclick

Orly?

LA and PH could very easily take place in the same realms.k_smoove

Same realm = same timeline, and he's talking about the game as a whole.

Your notion of the dreamworlds is fanciful speculation with no bearing on anything (i.e. so what?), and Wintry Flutist's proposal makes more sense. If they seem similar, it's only because Nintendo recycles everything. Every Zelda game feels like the last and has a similar plot with similar characters. They keep using the same game mechanics, so the similarity is no indication of anything except that Nintendo should probably think of hiring more Game Designers.

Way to take things out of context. You didn't even quote the whole thing, K-Smoove was quoting me. Saying Yes I agree they could take place in the same realm (dreamworld). Also this is fanciful speculation that's why it's called Zelda Theory disscussion.

[QUOTE="Minishdriveby"]

I actually think it takes place in the same realm as LA. What I mean to say is some sort of DreamWorld. Both LA and PH seemed closely linked. You have link on islands, you have him wake up at the end of the game, and you have whale like dieties. So I think In PH he just was able to adventure out into the dream worlds sea instead of being confined to one island.

k_smoove

I agree with this. LA and PH could very easily take place in the same realms. I've also heard a theory that PH takes place in flooded Termina, and I pretty much believed that until now.

I think you need to look up the definition of theory. A hypothesis only becomes a theory when it passes all attempts to disprove it. Your hypothesis cannot be tested at all, nor does it pass the Occam's razor test.

And in any case, to answer the topic question, it's obvious that PH is not set in Hyrule. It's set on top of it.

:roll: now your just arguing for the sake of arguing.

Theory

A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.

2. The branch of a science or art consisting of its explanatory statements, accepted principles, and methods of analysis, as opposed to practice: a fine musician who had never studied theory.

3. A set of theorems that constitute a systematic view of a branch of mathematics.

4. Abstract reasoning; speculation: a decision based on experience rather than theory.

5. A belief or principle that guides action or assists comprehension or judgment: staked out the house on the theory that criminals usually return to the scene of the crime.

6. An assumption based on limited information or knowledge; a conjecture.

There's not just one definition for one word. Please read 4 and 6.

This topic has turned more into an argument with each other then arguing about the time-line.

There seems to be a lot of debating about the two time-lines, so let me ask this: Why is OoT the only game that can split a time-line? Couldn't we have this "dream-line" that people have been mentioning as well, and couldn't other time-lines intersect with this "dream-line" on certain occasions? That seems to be a very plausible guess to me.

Which leads me to my next point: Guesses are all we can make people. We can't confirm anything really, so anything we spew out of our mouths is mere speculation.

1. Most of PH is not set above Hyrule its set in another world or realm.

2. Just because they may be in different parts of the timeline or in another timeline that split up doesn't mean they can't both take place in the same world. We're arugeing what world their set in not if they are on the same timeline, at least in the 2nd theory we have discussed.

3. The First Theory was talking about if the world visited in PH was Hyrule in the other timeline that is parellel to it. It doesn't have to be set near any other game but it may have been set in the oceans of hyrule of the other timeline. How is this possible? The Ghost Ship transported Link and Tetra to another world/realm/dimension. The first theory is proposing the idea that maybe the ghost ship took Link and Tetra to the other timeline where the trigger of the ghost ship in their timeline could be found and stopped to restore peace in their timeline. However Link would only look at it as two seperate worlds and not really know where he was. This also fits because even by the end of PH Link doesn't know where he was, he was in the world of the ocean king. The other things to back up perhaps the world he travel to was the seas of the hyrule that have now risen where stated i nthe first post.

4. I was not trying to insult Wintry Flutist, he is a good friend of mine but I couldn't understand his post due to some grammar mistakes that made it not make sense. I am aware I often make grammar mistakes myself but I couldn't understand what wintry flutist was saying.

wow. just wow:|

you guys are making my head hurt:?

i found out the truth from the great owl. i was told this:

the dreamworld is in fact another dimension. the great whale is the deity that governs that world much like the triforce is the power in hyrule. when the deity decides to enter the realm as a mortal to experiance mortal life, the deity can be put in situtations that can threaten its control over its realm. since the true consciousness of the deity exists outside space and time, it can "summon" a force to help its right to exist. the deity is drawn to the omnipotent force of the triforce and attempts to use this power. because the triforce is divided, it can only summon one of them. since the whale god needs the power to help its realm, not overpower it, or oppress it with law and order, it always "summons" the triforce of courage (goddesses promise) and thus link-rather the triforce of courage's current avatar go to the whale god's realm. once the power is restored to the deity, it must return the power or risk the collapsing to the realms. THIS IS LEGEND.

...and now i must return to meditation.