Zelda Wii - Nintendo's Swansong?

Okay, so I was just replying to another thread, and I kind of hit upon this realization that I hadn't thought too much about until now.

The Wii has had its share of successes and buzz in the game industry, and by now we have all come to know what we can expect from Nintendo in terms of original intellectual properties. Of course we have your Mario, your Metroid, Pokemon, Smash Bros., Mario Kart, etc etc, and then there is Zelda.

Up until about 2000, Nintendo really didn't have to worry about their image, because the technology at the time didn't allow for more detailed and elaborate graphics and effectslike we have today. But that barrier was broken -gamers wanted more realistic graphics, more immersive gameplay, and they wanted stories that were really big and full of seriousness. Nintendo could only stretch themselves so thin to appeal to this thought, while at the same time keeping a sense of wonder in their games, and keeping their games appealing to a wide audience. Despite a rocky road last console gen, Nintendo decided to embrace their stance and solidify it with a new approach to gaming. Although it has had its share of mixed reviews, there is no denying that the Wii has done very well for Nintendo, and while it may not have been as groundbreaking as it set out to be, the Wii has become a model upon which the gaming industry has taken inspiration, in shaping the next generation of gaming.

But what about Nintendo? Sure they still have a ton of supportive fans, a variety of intellectual properties, and a great amount of respect from the gaming world. But is this, too, going to start to stretch thin?

We can all take a look at the first and second-party games Nintendo has announced, and come up with a pretty good ballpark estimate of how well we think each one of those games is going to sell. If I were to guess: New Super Mario Bros. will probably sell even a little better than we are expecting, Mario Galaxy 2 will probably do alright but maybe not quite as well as the first title, Another Code probably won't see magnificent sales but it should do marginally well with fans of the DS game, Pikmin 3will see respectable sales, Metrioid Other M might not sell as well astheMario games but it still should catch interest from fans of the series...and then there is Zelda...

Zelda is, without a doubt, the killer-app of the Wii. We don't know anything about this game yet, all we have to go by is an announcement and a piece of concept artwork which is vague at best. But all it takes is that one word, 'Zelda', and crowd goes wild. Zelda is set in a world full of adventure and fantasy, but the gaming crowd has embraced the magical kingdom of Hyrule for one thing in particular - its realism. It is the best definition we can find in the gaming world of the traditional heroic story. The brave hero must save the pure princess from the evil sorcerer. Good versus evil. Even if the games don't have a lot to say, they don't need to - this original concept alone is enough to make Zelda one of the biggest stories in gaming history. Zelda is, and I cannot think of any better way to say it than this, Zelda is to the Wii (and quite possibly the entire game industry)what 'The Dark Knight' was to the box office last year. Zelda is the Dark Knight. This is it, this is the big one - even if the Wii sees a longer hardware generation than usual, I somehow get the feeling that we won't see another game of this magnitude on the Wii again.

And this brings me to my main point. (Finally!)

Is there life after Zelda Wii? Now just stop and think about that for a moment. Sure, there was a lot of fan buzz whenever Halo 3 was coming out (the end to a popular trilogy), and there was a decent amount of buzz over WOW when its expansions came out, but there was life after them. Since Halo 3 came out, Gears of War and Fallout 3 and Killzone 2 among other things became hits. WOW might not have seen its superior or even its equal yet, but massively-multiplayer online games in general have taken a page from Blizzard and implemented a lot of the ideas they had into their own games, making them the standard for MMOs for the time being. But it's not every day that a new Zelda comes out, and with production values and expectations for modern games hitting all-time highs, there could be a lot riding on this Zelda in particular.

Some say that the Zelda formula...is stretching itself thin. While the games have innovated and improved themselves over the years, it is true that they operate on the same basic concept - Link starts off with a sword and a shield, travels to 8 dungeons to get new tools that help him solve puzzles and beat the dungeon bosses, and uses his collection of weapons in conjunction with the Master Sword to stop Ganon and save Princess Zelda. While the games are still awesome, there is no denying one simple fact - "That sounds sooooo last gen!" As I said, there are high expectations for modern games, and when compared to the titles that are innovating and re-defining game genres, Nintendo's games have lagged behind. So, this has led many to question, Is Nintendo going to have to re-think the way they make a Zelda game? (And other games.)

So what do you think, is there life for Nintendo after Zelda? Is there life for Zelda after Zelda? I want to hear what you think.

Yes: there is life after Zelda Wii.

But I would wait until at least the Nintendo fall press conference to judge anything about Zelda Wii, as we currently don't know much beyond the fact that the master sword is now a little girl (or something like that...)

Yes: there is life after Zelda Wii.

But I would wait until at least the Nintendo fall press conference to judge anything about Zelda Wii, as we currently don't know much beyond the fact that the master sword is now a little girl (or something like that...)

ya know what? im going to be perfectly brutally honest with my opinion here. nintendo has lost all my respect with the way they are going (and a lot of you are going to say, look at their sales! they don't need your respect!, and that's true enough). Now that Sony and MS have seen just what attacking the casual market can bring to fruition ($) this gen may not just be the swansong of the formula of Zelda, but as games as we know them. good or bad? you decide. but i for one am happy having games stay games. s

Nintendo will outlast them all. They did it with SEGA, and they can do it with MS and Sony.

ya know what? im going to be perfectly brutally honest with my opinion here. nintendo has lost all my respect with the way they are going (and a lot of you are going to say, look at their sales! they don't need your respect!, and that's true enough). Now that Sony and MS have seen just what attacking the casual market can bring to fruition ($) this gen may not just be the swansong of the formula of Zelda, but as games as we know them. good or bad? you decide. but i for one am happy having games stay games. s

xBLACK-MAGEx

Personally, I think the situation you're describing has already come and gone. During the N64 days when Nintendo was being bested left and right by Sony and Sega, they had little option but to make top quality software. This led them to developing OoT and MM, which have been some of the top games in the series ever since. I think the innovation needs to come more from the control aspect of the game. Right now, Nintendo doesn't have to do much to keep things as good as they are. If they really wanted to stir up the interest of the 'traditional' Nintendo fans, they could easily do what they did during the GameCube era and drop StarFox, Donkey Kong, Wave Race, Pilot Wings, Kirby, F-Zero, etc. for the Wii, but as of now, it isn't really necessary.

However, if they can successfully implement (and by that I mean making it truly immersive, believable, and actually useful) WiiMotionPlus into the next Zelda title, not only will it solidify MotionPlus's usefulness, but also help make the next Zelda title into the next 'force to be reckoned with' Nintendo game that you're describing.

To be honest I'm not really sure what you're even saying. Are you saying that Nintendo's going to make the Wii Zelda game and then just say "well, that's enough, let's close up shop", or what?

I dont think Nintendo might change the way the games story is (like the way they did with MM even though that game was awsome) or the gameplay (going through 8 dungreons etc.) Every zelda i have played was the same yet so very different. TP was OOT with a wolf, BUT the main thing for me was the story. Yes the base of the story IS save the princess, but the actual detail they put in the story makes the game completely different than its predecessor. I felt that TP was a comepletly different and new zelda. BTW very nice post, it was very interesting.

...Nintendo's games have lagged behind. So, this has led many to question, Is Nintendo going to have to re-think the way they make a Zelda game? (And other games.)

So what do you think, is there life for Nintendo after Zelda? Is there life for Zelda after Zelda? I want to hear what you think.

Ovirew

Nintendo doesn't really have to worry about their image - it's far better than it has been in years. Not in the minds of the chainsaw-obsessed, naturally, but in the minds of the general public. They don't need any improved fancy graphics to do that, either. Your average user doesn't really see a huge amount of value in high-definition graphics, be they TV resolution or current hardware crunch. What they want is new ways to experience content (YouTube, etc. for video, Wii for games).

In other words, the perceived value of a product and it's hardware power have little correlation - cheaper solutions focusing on what the customers want to do bring greater value for both customer and manufacturer.

One of the greatest problems in modern Zeldas is the start to kickass time, ie. the time it takes to get you swinging your sword and kicking Moblin arses. Wind Waker, while otherwise excellent, is a prime offender. They give you a sword, let you kill a couple Moblins - ie. generally have a blast - and then kick you into the Forsaken Fortress, where you're totally at your enemies' mercy for an extended period of time - not good. Such behavior annoys especially the more arcade-minded Expanded Audience the Wii and DS have gathered. If the next Zelda is to be a success, cutting down the dreary beginning plot exposition is a good start.

As for life after Zelda, certainly. I don't know how many Wii games there will be for the "sad gamers" on these forums, but for the more arcade-minded will find a crapload of fun titles to play.

Nintendo doesn't really have to worry about their image - it's far better than it has been in years. Not in the minds of the chainsaw-obsessed, naturally, but in the minds of the general public. They don't need any improved fancy graphics to do that, either. Your average user doesn't really see a huge amount of value in high-definition graphics, be they TV resolution or current hardware crunch. What they want is new ways to experience content (YouTube, etc. for video, Wii for games).

In other words, the perceived value of a product and it's hardware power have little correlation - cheaper solutions focusing on what the customers want to do bring greater value for both customer and manufacturer.

One of the greatest problems in modern Zeldas is the start to kickass time, ie. the time it takes to get you swinging your sword and kicking Moblin arses. Wind Waker, while otherwise excellent, is a prime offender. They give you a sword, let you kill a couple Moblins - ie. generally have a blast - and then kick you into the Forsaken Fortress, where you're totally at your enemies' mercy for an extended period of time - not good. Such behavior annoys especially the more arcade-minded Expanded Audience the Wii and DS have gathered. If the next Zelda is to be a success, cutting down the dreary beginning plot exposition is a good start.

As for life after Zelda, certainly. I don't know how many Wii games there will be for the "sad gamers" on these forums, but for the more arcade-minded will find a crapload of fun titles to play.

_Teron_

Well said and I completely agree (although I found the stealth in windwaker fun). Hopefully the new combat will be enough to draw in those looking to kick ass, after all there is only so much thrill you can get from slashing miis left and right, also for those having fun on the system already I doubt they will lose interest afetr Zelda, only those who's wiis are their "Zelda machines".

I remember hearing something at E3 when Twilight Princess was first announced for Wii that Link was right-handed, and the last time they're making him right-handed. So I think there might a Zelda game for Wii. I may be wrong about the E3 statement, however.

Yes. There will be life after Zelda. The series is at a near-immortal status despite its clearly aging formula.

To be honest I'm not really sure what you're even saying. Are you saying that Nintendo's going to make the Wii Zelda game and then just say "well, that's enough, let's close up shop", or what?

GabuEx

I highly doubt that Nintendo would stop any time soon with the Zelda series, it just doesn't sound like them to be quitters...

I don't know, but if the new Zelda follows the same rinse and repeat gameplay, I won't be picking it up:(

I remember hearing something at E3 when Twilight Princess was first announced for Wii that Link was right-handed, and the last time they're making him right-handed. So I think there might a Zelda game for Wii. I may be wrong about the E3 statement, however.

mariomaker26

There is a new Zelda game being made for Wii, that's what this discussion is about. As for the last time he will be right-handed, doesn't look that way from the concept art, which for some reason I cannot link...no pun intended.

Some say that the Zelda formula...is stretching itself thin. While the games have innovated and improved themselves over the years, it is true that they operate on the same basic concept - Link starts off with a sword and a shield, travels to 8 dungeons to get new tools that help him solve puzzles and beat the dungeon bosses, and uses his collection of weapons in conjunction with the Master Sword to stop Ganon and save Princess Zelda. While the games are still awesome, there is no denying one simple fact - "That sounds sooooo last gen!" As I said, there are high expectations for modern games, and when compared to the titles that are innovating and re-defining game genres, Nintendo's games have lagged behind. So, this has led many to question, Is Nintendo going to have to re-think the way they make a Zelda game? (And other games.)Ovirew

That's like saying FPSs will be less liked because of the same old "get gun, shoot people".

[QUOTE="Ovirew"]Some say that the Zelda formula...is stretching itself thin. While the games have innovated and improved themselves over the years, it is true that they operate on the same basic concept - Link starts off with a sword and a shield, travels to 8 dungeons to get new tools that help him solve puzzles and beat the dungeon bosses, and uses his collection of weapons in conjunction with the Master Sword to stop Ganon and save Princess Zelda. While the games are still awesome, there is no denying one simple fact - "That sounds sooooo last gen!" As I said, there are high expectations for modern games, and when compared to the titles that are innovating and re-defining game genres, Nintendo's games have lagged behind. So, this has led many to question, Is Nintendo going to have to re-think the way they make a Zelda game? (And other games.)Nintendo_Fan128

That's like saying FPSs will be less liked because of the same old "get gun, shoot people".

Do you mean to say that once Zelda Wii is released, no more Zelda? I wouldn't think so, given the above-average sales the series generates.enterawesome

I think, unless I'm mistaken, is hes saying that Zelda is usually the pinacle of Nintendo First Party development, and once Zelda comes out is there anything to really look forward to after it.

Of course thats ignoring the possibility that it ends up like Twilight Princess, or they have something really nice up their sleeves:P (Possibly from Retro, etc)

Yes of course there will be life after Zelda, nintendo will have many more great titles after that i can assure you. I mean the new zelda game will most likely be great but i feel as though people are already building up ridiculous hype that can never be met no matter how good the game actually is. TP is still getting bashed for just that reason and the over-hype caused it, sure the game had its problems but its no where near as bad as people make it out to be. And as far as Miyamoto saying TP would be the last Zelda of its kind i think that may need to be taken with a grain of salt since he has since said that the new Zelda wouldn't be all that different in a quote after the new artwork was shown, it will have new aspects but it probably wont be as radically different as people may think.

I'm a tad confused as well, but this is my opinion on the matter.....

Nintendo needs to stick with the whole "find an item in the dungeon" but they also need to create a new method of play at the same time to keep things fresh for veterans. TBH I'd rather Nintendo incorperate only 6 items, instead of 20. I'm all for more items/weapons, but what is the point of throwing an extra item in there that only serves a purpose in 1 dungeon (like 15% of the game). That is a waste of development time, and I'd rather them focus one creating a world that allows my to use my other items more often, than not.

Another hard thing Nintendo is going to have to deal with is... creating a game that appeals to both the JP, and NA markets.

Don't be surprised if we get something like Phantom Hourglass

For fans of the series, this is a very important time for Nintendo. For the rest of the consumer base, it's honestly not that big of a deal. The market (outside hardcores) will enjoy the game as long as it looks good, and plays good.

[QUOTE="Ovirew"]

...Nintendo's games have lagged behind. So, this has led many to question, Is Nintendo going to have to re-think the way they make a Zelda game? (And other games.)

So what do you think, is there life for Nintendo after Zelda? Is there life for Zelda after Zelda? I want to hear what you think.

ZumaJones07

Miyamoto actually said that the game will NOT be significantly different from the other Zelda games. Google it / search on GoNintendo.

I'm a tad confused as well, but this is my opinion on the matter.....

Nintendo needs to stick with the whole "find an item in the dungeon" but they also need to create a new method of play at the same time to keep things fresh for veterans. TBH I'd rather Nintendo incorperate only 6 items, instead of 20. I'm all for more items/weapons, but what is the point of throwing an extra item in there that only serves a purpose in 1 dungeon (like 15% of the game). That is a waste of development time, and I'd rather them focus one creating a world that allows my to use my other items more often, than not.

Another hard thing Nintendo is going to have to deal with is... creating a game that appeals to both the JP, and NA markets.

Don't be surprised if we get something like Phantom Hourglass

For fans of the series, this is a very important time for Nintendo. For the rest of the consumer base, it's honestly not that big of a deal. The market (outside hardcores) will enjoy the game as long as it looks good, and plays good.

danger_ranger95

Life after Zelda? Yes, there will be, it's only a video game after all. It's not the world will end if it doesn't meet expectations, dogs and cats who live in the same home do tend to get along together, to a certain degree, so nothing to worry about there if the new Zelda isn't some 'Oh wow, it got guns and explosions and super duper f**k me graphics and it makes me a man!' like all these 'harcore' kiddies keep demanding of games.
The complaints will probably be that is isn't yet another boring FPS that's been done to death on other systems or some super gore game with graphics that can make a masterpiece painting look like a childs scribblings. It's a video game, it's made to be something for fun, to play. It's not the by all and end all of existence.

If you want art, then go to an art museum. If you want a video game to play for fun, then don't waste time and energy worrying, just be patient and look forward to a hopefully very well made, very fun game. If it isn't, then it doesn't matter.
Life carries on regardless.

R/T

[QUOTE="ZumaJones07"][QUOTE="Ovirew"]

...Nintendo's games have lagged behind. So, this has led many to question, Is Nintendo going to have to re-think the way they make a Zelda game? (And other games.)

So what do you think, is there life for Nintendo after Zelda? Is there life for Zelda after Zelda? I want to hear what you think.

MangaPicture

Miyamoto actually said that the game will NOT be significantly different from the other Zelda games. Google it / search on GoNintendo.

[QUOTE="xBLACK-MAGEx"]

ya know what? im going to be perfectly brutally honest with my opinion here. nintendo has lost all my respect with the way they are going (and a lot of you are going to say, look at their sales! they don't need your respect!, and that's true enough). Now that Sony and MS have seen just what attacking the casual market can bring to fruition ($) this gen may not just be the swansong of the formula of Zelda, but as games as we know them. good or bad? you decide. but i for one am happy having games stay games. s

Sepewrath

you obviously ignored everything after the first line of my post. I dont even have a wii so i couldnt care less if they release "hardcore games" or not. my problem is not even with nintendo, all i said was that by nintendo showing the kind of money you can get of producing sub-par motion mashing game that ppl call inovation for reasons i cannot comprehend (lets not kid around here that most games not nintendo first party are a waste of time and shovelware) other companies (sony and Ms) are trying to emulate that sucess with gimmicks of thier own. and lastly i stated in my post that it was MY OPINION, so im sorry if that irritates you, but if opinions that differ from yours get you mad, get ready to get real angry all your life.

You think the zelda forumla is being streched thin, lmao. Dude how many 3d zelda games have there been, like what 4? Now how many fps's have there been? Dude saying zelda is stretching the forumla thin is just a load of crap with people still buying generic, overused shooter games like there's no tommorow.

[QUOTE="MangaPicture"]

[QUOTE="ZumaJones07"] Didn't Shiggy or some other important Nintendo guy say something along the lines of "this Zelda will be different than the others"? So Zelda Wii will start a whole new line of Zelda's? Maybe your question has already been answered. ;)BrunoBRS

Miyamoto actually said that the game will NOT be significantly different from the other Zelda games. Google it / search on GoNintendo.

That statement has to be at least two years old, but it has been at this years E3 when he said 'The new Zelda won't be drastically different'.

[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"][QUOTE="MangaPicture"]

Miyamoto actually said that the game will NOT be significantly different from the other Zelda games. Google it / search on GoNintendo.

MangaPicture

That statement has to be at least two years old, but it has been at this years E3 when he said 'The new Zelda won't be drastically different'.