A Few Thoughts On The Virginia Tech Shootings.

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peppersfan2

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#1 peppersfan2
Member since 2007 • 1064 Posts

What I find to be so striking about Virginia Tech even more so than Columbine even though what a I am about to say could also apply to Columbine is that with Cho we have 3 parties. School shootings are a real problem and they are not going to go away anytime soon. Their is so much we could have done. The killers never "snap" as reported by the media. There is a long sordid path that leads up to the shootings and we allow it to happen. The way I see it their are three main parties in the Virginia Tech massacre.

Party 1 is Cho a man who got a pretty messed up lot in life and as a result was unable to cope with reality and developed a victim complex. I would say that in the end the majority of the slights against him were all inside his head. He could have fought this and became something although maybe not the writer he dreamed of being but he could have been happy someday. In the final years if his life he became kind of a prick who alienated himself purposley because others had done so to him prior. I don't think you can say that someone like this was evil. Everyone wants to but when i see Cho I see a fearfull young man afraid of not only others but himself and who he was.

Party 2 is the people arround him. His family, roomates, aquantinces and teachers. People like his roomates obviousilly did not know how to react to his odd behaivior but others chose to just ignore him. They can say that "how can you reach out to someone who won't let you" and that is true for an extent but they recognized he needed help but they didn't realize how to do it and in the end most people that did care lost interest after getting frustrated with his conduct. However some of the actions and this attempt by several campus attendees such as some of his door mates teachers and the girls he tried to reach out to border on insensitive and unethical.
His roomates searched his room yet found no weapons. They seemed to want to blacklist him because of his behavior.

Party 3 Is the random people he killed victims of his insecurity and desire to become something he knew he could never really be. A strong dark anti hero. To anyone who reads this and is thinking about commiting a massacre go look at each picture of the victims and read their names outloud to yourself. Read the comments from their loved ones. Do you really think they deserved to die? These people that never even knew Cho?

Cho was a victim of his enviorment and of himself. If someone could have reached out to him in the right way this could have been avoided. In the end their is no one to blame but Cho for the murder. In the months prior to the massacre I don't blame the students for feeling creeped out by Cho but their conduct was not in the right place. In the end the biggest threat to Cho was himself but its our fault for not giving him the tools to deal with his insecurities and in the end outside of drastic intervention I think he was too far gone down the spiral to make the first step for help himself. I don't think he has Autism nor the Aspergers varient. The Selective Mutism diagnoses works far better in explaining his actions. Cho reatreated into a world where he could be the alter ego he created. He was immature and was not able to cope with reality.

The massacre revealed alot more about ourselves rather than him. We turned him into a pop villian and assigned coverage of the even its own theme song. Premature speculation and political grandstanding was done before the investigation was even started. Then as the months went by we found new sources of entertainment and the massacre was a distant memory to those of use glued to our TV sets that day. We have made no real progress in stopping these events we took several steps back. We further renforced the idea of the "Dangerous Misfit" and newspapers with no clinical expertise published warning signs and a step by step method to identfy threats that has no real merit or value in predicting who will commit such an act. We pretended to care about the 33 people that died but when the high wore off from America's latest "tragedy" we promply pushed it to the back of our minds and continue to make the same exact mistakes. Their will be more Cho's in the future as their will be More Eric Harris's & Dylan Klebolds.

The Virginia Tech Shooting was a cluster of multiple failures by many different people including but not limited to the Seung Hui Cho and the people around him. This tragedy could have been easily prevented and 33 people including the shooter could have been happy. In some alternate universe hell they could have even been freinds. You cannot call Cho evil. Until the shootings he did not anything really evil and he really saw himself against a uncaring world. There is NO excuse for him and his cowardly cop out that took the lives of 33 innocent people but we must realize 33 victims were the result of the shooting but Cho was a victim of the shooting as well.

Many people think that we should forget that such people exist and just write them off as there is no way to know why they do these things. This is cowards advice. This is a complex problem that cannot be solved with after schoo special lessons but a painfull problem we must all work together to solve.

Cho was a angry hatefull lonely immature insecure socially inept man who ruined not only the lives of the 33 people he killed but many more in the after effects of the tragedy. He should not be gloryfied or excused but he should not be forgotten. Eventuall he should be forgiven. This was not a person who was evil but just lost. He truley was a question mark.

The question mark now is what will we do to prevent such events in the future?

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CoreoVII

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#2 CoreoVII
Member since 2007 • 1838 Posts
If only people understood how DEEP the meaning "Treat others the way you would want to be treated" meant....
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Toriko42

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#3 Toriko42
Member since 2006 • 27562 Posts
Much of the time school shootings shouldn't be blamed on the shooter but rather on the people who ignored him and his pleas for help. That's why I find school shootings so awful because they are preventable.
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#4 deactivated-6016f2513d412
Member since 2007 • 20414 Posts
You know, I've never read that much about the Virginia Tech Shootings, but I know so much about Columbine that I could pratically write my own book. Overall I find school shootings to be very sad, because they are often preventable. People aside from the shooters should take a little responsibility in certain cases as well.
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peppersfan2

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#5 peppersfan2
Member since 2007 • 1064 Posts

Much of the time school shootings shouldn't be blamed on the shooter but rather on the people who ignored him and his pleas for help. That's why I find school shootings so awful because they are preventable. Toriko42

You have a point but the shootings are done BY the shooter. The people that ignored them play a role but in the end its the shooter that pulls the trigger so it is the shooters fault.

Every school shooting could have been prevented.

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honkyjoe

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#6 honkyjoe
Member since 2005 • 5907 Posts
Hence the reason why I try to treat everyone with respect, kindness, and dignity.
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#7 peppersfan2
Member since 2007 • 1064 Posts

Here is a home video by the Columbine killers Eric Harris & Dylan Klebold. Kinda gives you an insight into their mindet.

http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/hitmen%2Bfor%2Bhire/video/x1ye2o_eric-harris-dylan-klebold_news

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#8 Toriko42
Member since 2006 • 27562 Posts

[QUOTE="Toriko42"]Much of the time school shootings shouldn't be blamed on the shooter but rather on the people who ignored him and his pleas for help. That's why I find school shootings so awful because they are preventable. peppersfan2

You have a point but the shootings are done BY the shooter. The people that ignored them play a role but in the end its the shooter that pulls the trigger so it is the shooters fault.

Every school shooting could have been prevented.

It might be the shooters fault directly but indirectly there are many many causes that caused them to do it. So many that it makes their actions in a sense not their own. People don't just shoot up school because they feel sad, they have reasons.
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Cedric169

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#9 Cedric169
Member since 2005 • 2138 Posts
Hence the reason why I try to treat everyone with respect, kindness, and dignity.honkyjoe
yea but that doesn't matter, when other people treat others like crap
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honkyjoe

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#10 honkyjoe
Member since 2005 • 5907 Posts

[QUOTE="honkyjoe"]Hence the reason why I try to treat everyone with respect, kindness, and dignity.Cedric169
yea but that doesn't matter, when other people treat others like crap

I just hope that someone may look at me and go "Hey, he isn't making fun of that kid, maybe we don't have to."

It may just be a hope but if there is one less jackass on the Earth than that is a good thing:P

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Cedric169

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#11 Cedric169
Member since 2005 • 2138 Posts

[QUOTE="Cedric169"][QUOTE="honkyjoe"]Hence the reason why I try to treat everyone with respect, kindness, and dignity.honkyjoe

yea but that doesn't matter, when other people treat others like crap

I just hope that someone may look at me and go "Hey, he isn't making fun of that kid, maybe we don't have to."

It may just be a hope but if there is one less jackass on the Earth than that is a good thing:P

haha yea well, It will be a better world
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peppersfan2

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#12 peppersfan2
Member since 2007 • 1064 Posts

I know that its a creepy disturbing painting but this painting sums up the Columbine tragedy as well as school shootings in general. Seeing the shooters on a peace hand sign is a stark juxtaposition.

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wilsonbdarnit

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#13 wilsonbdarnit
Member since 2008 • 229 Posts
it never deserved the kind of attention it got. it's tragic but there's all kinds of tragedies every day.
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CleanPlayer

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#14 CleanPlayer
Member since 2008 • 9822 Posts

Here is a home video by the Columbine killers Eric Harris & Dylan Klebold. Kinda gives you an insight into their mindet.

http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/hitmen%2Bfor%2Bhire/video/x1ye2o_eric-harris-dylan-klebold_news

peppersfan2
My problem with the shooters of Columbine was they went after innocent people. They were messed up and crazy. They didn't go after bullies, they went after random victims. People do get picked on, but it doesn't make an excuse to kill a person.
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Jacobistheman

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#15 Jacobistheman
Member since 2007 • 3975 Posts
Much of the time school shootings shouldn't be blamed on the shooter but rather on the people who ignored him and his pleas for help. That's why I find school shootings so awful because they are preventable. Toriko42
are you on crack. You can't blame the people around a muderer for murders that is ridiculous. People around should have realized that some thing was wrong, but to blame someone for something that they never thought could happen, becuase someone going crazy and going on a murderous rampage is the last thing that I would ever think anyone that I know would do, and I bet it is the same for you. They are preventable if guns were still legal on school campuses, one or two people might die, but the killer would be stopped fast.
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#16 CleanPlayer
Member since 2008 • 9822 Posts

I know that its a creepy disturbing painting but this painting sums up the Columbine tragedy as well as school shootings in general. Seeing the shooters on a peace hand sign is a stark juxtaposition.

peppersfan2
Both of those two are sick individuals.
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#17 peppersfan2
Member since 2007 • 1064 Posts
[QUOTE="peppersfan2"]

I know that its a creepy disturbing painting but this painting sums up the Columbine tragedy as well as school shootings in general. Seeing the shooters on a peace hand sign is a stark juxtaposition.

CleanPlayer

Both of those two are sick individuals.

Bullying and allenation distorts a persons sense of reality. Even though they killed innocent people in their minds they were the enemy. The violence and hate created a us and them mentality.

THye had people that loved them and until the tragedy they seemed like normal kids. I can understand people's anger towards them but their seems to be a collective effort to sweep them under the rug. Sure tragedies happen every day but many can be stopped and school shootings are not like any other tradgedy. Their is a very odd pathology in someone who wants to kill as many people as possible for no other reason than hate. Even serial killers don't think like that but mass killers like them do.

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peppersfan2

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#18 peppersfan2
Member since 2007 • 1064 Posts
If someone you loved killed 20 people at their school would you remember them as a killer or someone you had fun times with and loved?
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#19 Toriko42
Member since 2006 • 27562 Posts
[QUOTE="Toriko42"]Much of the time school shootings shouldn't be blamed on the shooter but rather on the people who ignored him and his pleas for help. That's why I find school shootings so awful because they are preventable. Jacobistheman
are you on crack. You can't blame the people around a muderer for murders that is ridiculous. People around should have realized that some thing was wrong, but to blame someone for something that they never thought could happen, becuase someone going crazy and going on a murderous rampage is the last thing that I would ever think anyone that I know would do, and I bet it is the same for you. They are preventable if guns were still legal on school campuses, one or two people might die, but the killer would be stopped fast.

Are you insane, legalizing guns on school property would make things worse.
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#21 CleanPlayer
Member since 2008 • 9822 Posts
If someone you loved killed 20 people at their school would you remember them as a killer or someone you had fun times with and loved? peppersfan2
I would think they were obviously mentally ill and I would've noticed it. Seriously how could no-one notice when a friend is not acting right. In order for a person to do such a thing, their family and friend need to do something. It makes me sick of what happened at the Columbine massacre. Understand bullying happens all the time, but it doesn't makes just every single person who is bullied into a serial killer.
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#22 Jacobistheman
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[QUOTE="Jacobistheman"][QUOTE="Toriko42"]Much of the time school shootings shouldn't be blamed on the shooter but rather on the people who ignored him and his pleas for help. That's why I find school shootings so awful because they are preventable. Toriko42
are you on crack. You can't blame the people around a muderer for murders that is ridiculous. People around should have realized that some thing was wrong, but to blame someone for something that they never thought could happen, becuase someone going crazy and going on a murderous rampage is the last thing that I would ever think anyone that I know would do, and I bet it is the same for you. They are preventable if guns were still legal on school campuses, one or two people might die, but the killer would be stopped fast.

Are you insane, legalizing guns on school property would make things worse.

How would it make things worse? This link shows two towns, one that banned guns, and the other that required everyone to own a gun. The town that banned guns crime rate skyrocketed, and the town that required guns plummeted. If you haven't noticed, there are not these crazy shooting sprees anywhere that guns are not banned, and they would stop on school grounds if people were allowed to carry weapons. http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55288
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Fredrick2003x

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#23 Fredrick2003x
Member since 2005 • 2056 Posts
Everybody having a gun would definitely even the odds a bit.
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#24 peppersfan2
Member since 2007 • 1064 Posts

[QUOTE="peppersfan2"]If someone you loved killed 20 people at their school would you remember them as a killer or someone you had fun times with and loved? CleanPlayer
I would think they were obviously mentally ill and I would've noticed it. Seriously how could no-one notice when a friend is not acting right. In order for a person to do such a thing, their family and friend need to do something. It makes me sick of what happened at the Columbine massacre. Understand bullying happens all the time, but it doesn't makes just every single person who is bullied into a serial killer.

Yes but you can't deny it plays a huge role. I'm not saying its an excuse. Eric Harris raised all sorts of flags and most people were not suprised when he did it but Dylan Klebold suprised mostly everyone. There were warning signs but few saw them until afterwards.

Serial Killers tend to kill for power and wish to stay of the map. School Shooters want to be known my the world.

Serial Killers hate publicity whilst Spree Killers relish it.

This is just my opinion but I think its foolish to say that school shooters commit such murders soley for attention or because they were bullied. However its also wrong to deny the fact that these are major factors in why they do such terrible things

Here is a documentary on the Columbine shootings.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1475206194487119345&ei=rkZkSfz2OZPCqAOC74kK&q=columbine+zero+hour

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peppersfan2

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#25 peppersfan2
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[QUOTE="Toriko42"][QUOTE="Jacobistheman"][QUOTE="Toriko42"]Much of the time school shootings shouldn't be blamed on the shooter but rather on the people who ignored him and his pleas for help. That's why I find school shootings so awful because they are preventable. Jacobistheman
are you on crack. You can't blame the people around a muderer for murders that is ridiculous. People around should have realized that some thing was wrong, but to blame someone for something that they never thought could happen, becuase someone going crazy and going on a murderous rampage is the last thing that I would ever think anyone that I know would do, and I bet it is the same for you. They are preventable if guns were still legal on school campuses, one or two people might die, but the killer would be stopped fast.

Are you insane, legalizing guns on school property would make things worse.

How would it make things worse? This link shows two towns, one that banned guns, and the other that required everyone to own a gun. The town that banned guns crime rate skyrocketed, and the town that required guns plummeted. If you haven't noticed, there are not these crazy shooting sprees anywhere that guns are not banned, and they would stop on school grounds if people were allowed to carry weapons.[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry but thats BS. I'm not going to argue about guns being a detterent to crimes like conventional robbery/homicide but school shooters WANT to die so how would guns discourage them from doing so? Many school shooters have combated the cops and even killed one. Sure there was ONE school shooting in the us where those two kids got their guns and stopped the shooter but thats not good enough. School shooters won't give one crap if their victims are armed.

Guns in school would create confusion for responding units. Guns belong in the home at the most but not in our schools.

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#26 MrGeezer
Member since 2002 • 59765 Posts

Cho was a angry hatefull lonely immature insecure socially inept man who ruined not only the lives of the 33 people he killed but many more in the after effects of the tragedy. He should not be gloryfied or excused but he should not be forgotten. Eventuall he should be forgiven. This was not a person who was evil but just lost. He truley was a question mark.

peppersfan2

I'm an angry hateful lonely immature insecure socially inept man too, but you don't see ME shooting up schools.

What should we do do prevent this from happening again? Nothing. That's like asking what we should do to prevent school shootings by kids who like violent videogames. YOU GUYS like violent videogames, and YOU GUYS still don't shoot the hell out of people. Same thing here. YOU manage to play violent videogames without murdering anyone, so it's not really the videogames that are the problem.

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#27 blehblahblep
Member since 2009 • 128 Posts

not trying to offend anyone.

i live in virginia.

but that dude choe was crazy he took out 33 people with freaking handguns

and other school shootings kids had rifles and all kinds of crap and didnt kill near as many.

you could tell choe was really prepare seems like he always hated western culture.

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#28 kruesader
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[QUOTE="peppersfan2"]

Cho was a angry hatefull lonely immature insecure socially inept man who ruined not only the lives of the 33 people he killed but many more in the after effects of the tragedy. He should not be gloryfied or excused but he should not be forgotten. Eventuall he should be forgiven. This was not a person who was evil but just lost. He truley was a question mark.

MrGeezer

I'm an angry hateful lonely immature insecure socially inept man too, but you don't see ME shooting up schools.

What should we do do prevent this from happening again? Nothing. That's like asking what we should do to prevent school shootings by kids who like violent videogames. YOU GUYS like violent videogames, and YOU GUYS still don't shoot the hell out of people. Same thing here. YOU manage to play violent videogames without murdering anyone, so it's not really the videogames that are the problem.

MrGeezer, you are usually contrary to my views, but you are right, it was COMPLETELY his fault, he pulled the trigger on 33(?) people. Some people are just ****** up.
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#29 blehblahblep
Member since 2009 • 128 Posts
im sorry for all the family's...but it's all good that dude's in hell.
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#30 Lockedge
Member since 2002 • 16765 Posts
The person who pulls the trigger is the murderer. Period. However, in Columbine, for instance, every kid who saw the constant physical and mental abuse these kids took over the years, and did nothing....those kids have blood on their hands and it's not going to come off until they start making changes. I remember a news story 2 or 3 years after columbine, and they went back there to ask if bullying was still as common as before and there was a unanimous "yes". People need to understand the consequences of their actions. If the push a desperate, scared and hurt kid up against the wall too hard, that kid will either die, or attack back. Those kids were broken and twisted because of an extended exposure to alienation, hatred and violence, and they came in and shot students down. They didn't see innocents, because were abused by a few and ignored/shunned by the rest. Most people aren't pushed to the brink like they were, and pretty much everyone had differing levels of mental stability, but everyone has a breaking point somewhere. I think it's important that kids understand how to act like decent human beings, and the importance of it. I think teachers need to not sweep bullying under the rug like they constantly do, considering it a minor aspect of growing up. Yes, bullying can help one's "skin" get "thicker", and can help teach people how to act in situations like that, but there are situations where bullying happens and there's no lesson taught or learned because there's no pillar of support in that person's life. That's where things go awry. Parents need to be better role models for their kids. This may be the most important part of making positive change in the system. I won't deny I've bullied people a few times, but I can count on one hand the number of times and looking back on it I'm full of regret because it was unnecessary. I do my best to stop that kind of behaviour, because I know what hurt it can cause and what that can lead to.
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Jacobistheman

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#31 Jacobistheman
Member since 2007 • 3975 Posts

[QUOTE="Jacobistheman"][QUOTE="Toriko42"] Are you insane, legalizing guns on school property would make things worse. peppersfan2

How would it make things worse? This link shows two towns, one that banned guns, and the other that required everyone to own a gun. The town that banned guns crime rate skyrocketed, and the town that required guns plummeted. If you haven't noticed, there are not these crazy shooting sprees anywhere that guns are not banned, and they would stop on school grounds if people were allowed to carry weapons.

I'm sorry but thats BS. I'm not going to argue about guns being a detterent to crimes like conventional robbery/homicide but school shooters WANT to die so how would guns discourage them from doing so? Many school shooters have combated the cops and even killed one. Sure there was ONE school shooting in the us where those two kids got their guns and stopped the shooter but thats not good enough. School shooters won't give one crap if their victims are armed.

Guns in school would create confusion for responding units. Guns belong in the home at the most but not in our schools.

Well they might still try to kill someone if others had guns, but because others had guns they would be stoped before killing anyone, or after killing very few, unlike these shooting were 30 people are killed and numerous others injured. Poeple need to learn that banning guns doesn't help anything. I the UK they banned all guns, and do you know what happened, the gun crime rate doubled and the regual crime rate went up because those that would prevent crimes with guns listened to the law and stopped carrying them, the criminals that don't listen to the law, kept the guns, and with no one there to stop them, were able to commit whatever crime they wanted.
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#32 CleanPlayer
Member since 2008 • 9822 Posts
[QUOTE="MrGeezer"][QUOTE="peppersfan2"]

Cho was a angry hatefull lonely immature insecure socially inept man who ruined not only the lives of the 33 people he killed but many more in the after effects of the tragedy. He should not be gloryfied or excused but he should not be forgotten. Eventuall he should be forgiven. This was not a person who was evil but just lost. He truley was a question mark.

kruesader

I'm an angry hateful lonely immature insecure socially inept man too, but you don't see ME shooting up schools.

What should we do do prevent this from happening again? Nothing. That's like asking what we should do to prevent school shootings by kids who like violent videogames. YOU GUYS like violent videogames, and YOU GUYS still don't shoot the hell out of people. Same thing here. YOU manage to play violent videogames without murdering anyone, so it's not really the videogames that are the problem.

MrGeezer, you are usually contrary to my views, but you are right, it was COMPLETELY his fault, he pulled the trigger on 33(?) people. Some people are just ****** up.

Yes sadly yes.
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#33 CleanPlayer
Member since 2008 • 9822 Posts

[QUOTE="CleanPlayer"][QUOTE="peppersfan2"]If someone you loved killed 20 people at their school would you remember them as a killer or someone you had fun times with and loved? peppersfan2

I would think they were obviously mentally ill and I would've noticed it. Seriously how could no-one notice when a friend is not acting right. In order for a person to do such a thing, their family and friend need to do something. It makes me sick of what happened at the Columbine massacre. Understand bullying happens all the time, but it doesn't makes just every single person who is bullied into a serial killer.

Yes but you can't deny it plays a huge role. I'm not saying its an excuse. Eric Harris raised all sorts of flags and most people were not suprised when he did it but Dylan Klebold suprised mostly everyone. There were warning signs but few saw them until afterwards.

Serial Killers tend to kill for power and wish to stay of the map. School Shooters want to be known my the world.

Serial Killers hate publicity whilst Spree Killers relish it.

This is just my opinion but I think its foolish to say that school shooters commit such murders soley for attention or because they were bullied. However its also wrong to deny the fact that these are major factors in why they do such terrible things

Here is a documentary on the Columbine shootings.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1475206194487119345&ei=rkZkSfz2OZPCqAOC74kK&q=columbine+zero+hour

After watching that, I would say it did play a significant role, but at the same time I still stand with what I believe in I sort of misinterperted what your point is, but now I understand it.
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helium_flash

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#34 helium_flash
Member since 2007 • 9244 Posts
I hope that both the VTech guy and the Columbine kids rot in hell and suffer the most excruciating pain possible.