A Hypothetical

Let's say a person is born in the middle of the desert and lives there his entire life. He has no access to technology (may not even know what technology is) and has no access to civilisation, schooling, or the ocean.

Now, under these conditions we know that this man would always percieve the ground below him as a flat space with the occasional curve up into the air. In all directions he would see this same flat ground; maybe a hill here and there, but the same idea. Every day the sun comes up from below the ground and every night the sun sinks back below it.

Now, based on the information this person has: would it be irrational or unreasonable for him to conclude that the Earth is flat? Why or why not?

*NOTE* The topic has moved beyond this hypothetical situation. You might want to read the whole topic or at least the last page once you vote. :D

He would more than likely be mentally insane under those conditions and not come to any conclusion. :|

He would more than likely be mentally insane under those conditions and not come to any conclusion. :|

Pirate700

People have lived in the desert, you know.:|

But please, don't read any other factors into this. It's a hypothetical.

considering he has no education he would probably think its flat

and it would not be irrational

No, he has no way of knowing.

considering he has no education he would probably think its flat

awesomeray

That doesn't answer my question.

Crap i read the question wrong and already voted...:lol:

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

He would more than likely be mentally insane under those conditions and not come to any conclusion. :|

Theokhoth

People have lived in the desert, you know.:|

But please, don't read any other factors into this. It's a hypothetical.

Without a proper method of testing the hypothesis, or indeed the hypothesis in and of itself, it isn't illogical to think that someone secluded from scientific knowledge to assume the Earth is flat.

[QUOTE="awesomeray"]

considering he has no education he would probably think its flat

That doesn't answer my question.

This stem off of the evolution thread at all? Masterdj1992

by the description you gave then yes he would think the earth is flatleonard88

That doesn't answer my question.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

He would more than likely be mentally insane under those conditions and not come to any conclusion. :|

Pirate700

People have lived in the desert, you know.:|

But please, don't read any other factors into this. It's a hypothetical.

If he has no contact with other humans he would likely think a lot of things that have been proven incorrect.RandomBeast

What if he has contact with a bunch of humans who also think the Earth is flat?

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

People have lived in the desert, you know.:|

But please, don't read any other factors into this. It's a hypothetical.

Locke562

do you think the earth is flat? anyway, he would probably think the earth is flat. how would we know otherwise? we've had footage from space, we've seen it with our own eyes.shoeman12

I'm not saying I think the Earth is flat.:|

[QUOTE="RandomBeast"]If he has no contact with other humans he would likely think a lot of things that have been proven incorrect.Theokhoth

What if he has contact with a bunch of humans who also think the Earth is flat?

Just tell us your point already...

[QUOTE="Locke562"][QUOTE="Pirate700"]You made it sound like this person never left a very small area. Anyway considering we only relatively recently discovered that the the earth is, infact, round, and before everyone thought it flat, if he had the ability to rationalize, I'm sure he would think it flat also.

Pirate700

[QUOTE="leonard88"]by the description you gave then yes he would think the earth is flatTheokhoth

That doesn't answer my question.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="RandomBeast"]If he has no contact with other humans he would likely think a lot of things that have been proven incorrect.chessmaster1989

What if he has contact with a bunch of humans who also think the Earth is flat?

Just tell us your point already...

My point should be blatantly obvious, but I want moar responses first. :D It makes things easier for everybody.

Theokhoth, It would not be unreasonable for this person to conclude the Earth is flat. Now get to your point :P

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="leonard88"]by the description you gave then yes he would think the earth is flatleonard88

That doesn't answer my question.

Why?

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

[QUOTE="Locke562"] The Greeks realized the earth was not flat in the fourth century BCE.Locke562

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

What if he has contact with a bunch of humans who also think the Earth is flat?

Theokhoth

Just tell us your point already...

My point should be blatantly obvious, but I want moar responses first. :D It makes things easier for everybody.

:x

Just tell me your point... I guess it's not that blatantly obvious :?

EDIT: Unless this is meant to say that belief in God is not irrational...

It would be irrational for him to think the Earth is flat.

[QUOTE="leonard88"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

That doesn't answer my question.

Theokhoth

Why?

Crap i read the question wrong and already voted...:lol:

Mr_Oblivio

Theokhoth, It would not be irrational for this person to conclude the Earth is flat. Now get to your point :PLocke562

Damn, you people are impatient.:x

Would you (and everyone else who answered that it would not be irrational) say that the rationality of a given conclusion is based upon a person's perception of the world and its various workings (i.e. the ground looks flat, it goes on staying flat, the sun drops below the Earth, therefore Earth is most likely flat)?

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="leonard88"] oh it would be irrationalleonard88

Why?

So what is rational is based on what is true?

It would be irrational for him to think the Earth is flat.

entropyecho

How come?

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

What if he has contact with a bunch of humans who also think the Earth is flat?

Theokhoth

Just tell us your point already...

My point should be blatantly obvious, but I want moar responses first. :D It makes things easier for everybody.

I think what he is trying to say is that science is dependent upon the ability of a being to observe and percieve it. Gravity, EM fields, atoms, and suchlike phenomenon may exist, but without a sentient being to observe it, it may as well not even exist.

As such, science = God.

He would think it flat, therefore it is.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

Just tell us your point already...

tycoonmike

My point should be blatantly obvious, but I want moar responses first. :D It makes things easier for everybody.

I think what he is trying to say is that science is dependent upon the ability of a being to observe and percieve it. Gravity, EM fields, atoms, and suchlike phenomenon may exist, but without a sentient being to observe it, it may as well not even exist.

As such, science = God.

My point has nothing to do with science just yet.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

Just tell us your point already...

My point should be blatantly obvious, but I want moar responses first. :D It makes things easier for everybody.

:x

Just tell me your point... I guess it's not that blatantly obvious :?

EDIT: Unless this is meant to say that belief in God is not irrational...

[QUOTE="tycoonmike"]

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

My point should be blatantly obvious, but I want moar responses first. :D It makes things easier for everybody.

Theokhoth

I think what he is trying to say is that science is dependent upon the ability of a being to observe and percieve it. Gravity, EM fields, atoms, and suchlike phenomenon may exist, but without a sentient being to observe it, it may as well not even exist.

As such, science = God.

My point has nothing to do with science just yet.

Derivation has always been a specialty of mine. "My point has nothing to do with science JUST YET." I am on the right trail.

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

My point should be blatantly obvious, but I want moar responses first. :D It makes things easier for everybody.

black_tempest

:x

Just tell me your point... I guess it's not that blatantly obvious :?

EDIT: Unless this is meant to say that belief in God is not irrational...

That's good, but it goes beyond a God v. Science debate.

[QUOTE="Locke562"]Theokhoth, It would not be irrational for this person to conclude the Earth is flat. Now get to your point :PTheokhoth

Damn, you people are impatient.:x

Would you (and everyone else who answered that it would not be irrational) say that the rationality of a given conclusion is based upon a person's perception of the world and its various workings (i.e. the ground looks flat, it goes on staying flat, the sun drops below the Earth, therefore Earth is most likely flat)?

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="tycoonmike"]

I think what he is trying to say is that science is dependent upon the ability of a being to observe and percieve it. Gravity, EM fields, atoms, and suchlike phenomenon may exist, but without a sentient being to observe it, it may as well not even exist.

As such, science = God.

tycoonmike

My point has nothing to do with science just yet.

Derivation has always been a specialty of mine. "My point has nothing to do with science JUST YET." I am on the right trail.

Indeed you are. Science inevitably comes up, but we need to get past the bare basics first.

[QUOTE="black_tempest"][QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

:x

Just tell me your point... I guess it's not that blatantly obvious :?

EDIT: Unless this is meant to say that belief in God is not irrational...

Theokhoth

That's good, but it goes beyond a God v. Science debate.

'kay, just tell us already, I'm leaving in a couple of minutes :x

[QUOTE="leonard88"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

Why?

Theokhoth

So what is rational is based on what is true?

Without giving it much thought; I would say it's due to inadequate tools to test whether the earth was flat or not. Maybe it's the lack of motivation to find out about the natural world.Locke562

Don't worry about tools and testing right now; concern yourself only with coming to a conclusion based solely on what you percieve and whether or not that conclusion is rational because of it.

[QUOTE="black_tempest"][QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

:x

Just tell me your point... I guess it's not that blatantly obvious :?

EDIT: Unless this is meant to say that belief in God is not irrational...

That's good, but it goes beyond a God v. Science debate.