Aaron Swartz faced 50 years in jail for making information publicly available.

Considering universities pay for hundreds of thousands of dollars in licenses, if not millions in some schools, for their students to have proprietary access to that information WHICH IS LEGALLY OWNED AND DISTRIBUTED by someone else. I don't really see a problem here. Just because it was done on a computer and for a "good" reason doesn't make his theft any less criminal?

Is it ok for me to break into people's homes and rob them because I have no money and will starve otherwise?

And they compare his sentence to one count of individual heinous crimes when he was being charged with thirteen counts of various felonies (felony in US court equating to a crime with a sentence of over one year).

Not really anything to see here, he broke the law, got caught, was being indicted for his criminal actions.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/01/14/1441211/killers-slavers-and-bank-robbers-all-face-less-severe-prison-terms-than-aaron-swartz-did/ He committed suicide but his punishment would have been more severe than killers, people that sell child porn, etc. How does that work?Champo9

Those aren't mandatory sentences

Considering universities pay for hundreds of thousands of dollars in licenses, if not millions in some schools, for their students to have proprietary access to that information WHICH IS LEGALLY OWNED AND DISTRIBUTED by someone else. I don't really see a problem here. Just because it was done on a computer and for a "good" reason doesn't make his theft any less criminal?

Is it ok for me to break into people's homes and rob them because I have no money and will starve otherwise?

And they compare his sentence to one count of individual heinous crimes when he was being charged with thirteen counts of various felonies (felony in US court equating to a crime with a sentence of over one year).

Not really anything to see here, he broke the law, got caught, was being indicted for his criminal actions.

C2N2

[QUOTE="C2N2"]

Considering universities pay for hundreds of thousands of dollars in licenses, if not millions in some schools, for their students to have proprietary access to that information WHICH IS LEGALLY OWNED AND DISTRIBUTED by someone else. I don't really see a problem here. Just because it was done on a computer and for a "good" reason doesn't make his theft any less criminal?

Is it ok for me to break into people's homes and rob them because I have no money and will starve otherwise?

And they compare his sentence to one count of individual heinous crimes when he was being charged with thirteen counts of various felonies (felony in US court equating to a crime with a sentence of over one year).

Not really anything to see here, he broke the law, got caught, was being indicted for his criminal actions.

Champo9

[QUOTE="Champo9"][QUOTE="C2N2"]

Considering universities pay for hundreds of thousands of dollars in licenses, if not millions in some schools, for their students to have proprietary access to that information WHICH IS LEGALLY OWNED AND DISTRIBUTED by someone else. I don't really see a problem here. Just because it was done on a computer and for a "good" reason doesn't make his theft any less criminal?

Is it ok for me to break into people's homes and rob them because I have no money and will starve otherwise?

And they compare his sentence to one count of individual heinous crimes when he was being charged with thirteen counts of various felonies (felony in US court equating to a crime with a sentence of over one year).

Not really anything to see here, he broke the law, got caught, was being indicted for his criminal actions.

Aljosa23

Laws are never wrong?Champo9

[QUOTE="C2N2"]

Considering universities pay for hundreds of thousands of dollars in licenses, if not millions in some schools, for their students to have proprietary access to that information WHICH IS LEGALLY OWNED AND DISTRIBUTED by someone else. I don't really see a problem here. Just because it was done on a computer and for a "good" reason doesn't make his theft any less criminal?

Is it ok for me to break into people's homes and rob them because I have no money and will starve otherwise?

And they compare his sentence to one count of individual heinous crimes when he was being charged with thirteen counts of various felonies (felony in US court equating to a crime with a sentence of over one year).

Not really anything to see here, he broke the law, got caught, was being indicted for his criminal actions.

Champo9

Say I am broke, I need money to feed my daughter, is it ok for me to rob a bank to feed her? I am helping someone?

Say taxes are getting too high and people can't afford them anymore, is it ok for me to assassinate heads of the governement? I am helping people?

Say a bank is about to foreclose on a lot of homes and people will be thrown out... Is it ok for me to blow that bank up? I am helping people?

We have laws for a reason.

And yes, such a sentence is more than appropriate.

[QUOTE="Champo9"]Laws are never wrong?Aljosa23

[QUOTE="Champo9"][QUOTE="C2N2"]

Considering universities pay for hundreds of thousands of dollars in licenses, if not millions in some schools, for their students to have proprietary access to that information WHICH IS LEGALLY OWNED AND DISTRIBUTED by someone else. I don't really see a problem here. Just because it was done on a computer and for a "good" reason doesn't make his theft any less criminal?

Is it ok for me to break into people's homes and rob them because I have no money and will starve otherwise?

And they compare his sentence to one count of individual heinous crimes when he was being charged with thirteen counts of various felonies (felony in US court equating to a crime with a sentence of over one year).

Not really anything to see here, he broke the law, got caught, was being indicted for his criminal actions.

C2N2

Say I am broke, I need money to feed my daughter, is it ok for me to rob a bank to feed her? I am helping someone?

Say taxes are getting too high and people can't afford them anymore, is it ok for me to assassinate heads of the governement? I am helping people?

Say a bank is about to foreclose on a lot of homes and people will be thrown out... Is it ok for me to blow that bank up? I am helping people?

We have laws for a reason.

And yes, such a sentence is more than appropriate.

It wasn't like the information was somehow 'secret' though. I know I can access JSTOR through my University, but pay a fee to access the Journal Articles, as they're scholarly documents.chrisrooR

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

[QUOTE="Champo9"]Laws are never wrong?Champo9

Champ Let's have more examples.

-Say you are CEO to EBSCO host. Your business is thriving, you provide many universities and schools with scholarly journals they otherwise would have to go far out of their way to access and subscribe to individually and your business has grown to employ 800 people.

Then one day every article on your database is stolen and distributed to the internet. Now what? What is it that your company and its 800 employees are going to do now? If the person isn't punished then what keeps others from doing it again? No one is going to subscribe to you if they can access all of your information for free.

-You publish a journal on medicinal improvements. Its sole revenue is subscriptions from database providers and academic institutions.

Then one day every journal you have ever published is stolen and distributed to the internet. Now what? Why would people subscribe to you if they can get it for free? Why would you spend time and effort compiling it if you can't sustain it with a profit? Why even write in the future if such actions as stealing your property weren't punished? What keeps someone from simply doing it again, again, and again?

[QUOTE="chrisrooR"]It wasn't like the information was somehow 'secret' though. I know I can access JSTOR through my University, but pay a fee to access the Journal Articles, as they're scholarly documents.BossPerson

[QUOTE="C2N2"]

[QUOTE="Champo9"] So 50 years is an appropriate sentence? He was helping people.Champo9

Say I am broke, I need money to feed my daughter, is it ok for me to rob a bank to feed her? I am helping someone?

Say taxes are getting too high and people can't afford them anymore, is it ok for me to assassinate heads of the governement? I am helping people?

Say a bank is about to foreclose on a lot of homes and people will be thrown out... Is it ok for me to blow that bank up? I am helping people?

We have laws for a reason.

And yes, such a sentence is more than appropriate.

They lose the money they make for subscriptions Champ. Would you subscribe to a database for a premium if you could do one google search and have access to what is on there for free? Of course not.

[QUOTE="BossPerson"][QUOTE="chrisrooR"]It wasn't like the information was somehow 'secret' though. I know I can access JSTOR through my University, but pay a fee to access the Journal Articles, as they're scholarly documents.chrisrooR

But yeah, academic publishing is one of the biggest rackets around.

Oh its been two years since the last edition of our HISTORY textbook? Lets launch the new one for 200$ and render the old ones null.

Oh and lets make sure the students have to buy this by making the book mandatory for a one assignment in the semester.

But yeah, academic publishing is one of the biggest rackets around.

Oh its been two years since the last edition of our HISTORY textbook? Lets launch the new one for 200$ and render the old ones null.

BossPerson

That isn't the same as a database of journals.

But yeah, academic publishing is one of the biggest rackets around.

Oh its been two years since the last edition of our HISTORY textbook? Lets launch the new one for 200$ and render the old ones null.

Oh and lets make sure the students have to buy this by making the book mandatory for a one assignment in the semester.

BossPerson

[QUOTE="BossPerson"]

But yeah, academic publishing is one of the biggest rackets around.

Oh its been two years since the last edition of our HISTORY textbook? Lets launch the new one for 200$ and render the old ones null.

Oh and lets make sure the students have to buy this by making the book mandatory for a one assignment in the semester.

Champo9

Considering universities pay for hundreds of thousands of dollars in licenses, if not millions in some schools, for their students to have proprietary access to that information WHICH IS LEGALLY OWNED AND DISTRIBUTED by someone else. I don't really see a problem here. Just because it was done on a computer and for a "good" reason doesn't make his theft any less criminal?

Is it ok for me to break into people's homes and rob them because I have no money and will starve otherwise?

And they compare his sentence to one count of individual heinous crimes when he was being charged with thirteen counts of various felonies (felony in US court equating to a crime with a sentence of over one year).

Not really anything to see here, he broke the law, got caught, was being indicted for his criminal actions.

C2N2

If it's necessary to have these resources, then they should be subsidized by the government and regulated. I suppose sort of like youtube, where hits = money but false hits/spam are delt with.

And comparing burgurly to copyringht infringement. :roll:

[QUOTE="Champo9"][QUOTE="BossPerson"]

But yeah, academic publishing is one of the biggest rackets around.

Oh its been two years since the last edition of our HISTORY textbook? Lets launch the new one for 200$ and render the old ones null.

Oh and lets make sure the students have to buy this by making the book mandatory for a one assignment in the semester.

chrisrooR

[QUOTE="C2N2"]

Considering universities pay for hundreds of thousands of dollars in licenses, if not millions in some schools, for their students to have proprietary access to that information WHICH IS LEGALLY OWNED AND DISTRIBUTED by someone else. I don't really see a problem here. Just because it was done on a computer and for a "good" reason doesn't make his theft any less criminal?

Is it ok for me to break into people's homes and rob them because I have no money and will starve otherwise?

And they compare his sentence to one count of individual heinous crimes when he was being charged with thirteen counts of various felonies (felony in US court equating to a crime with a sentence of over one year).

Not really anything to see here, he broke the law, got caught, was being indicted for his criminal actions.

Inconsistancy

If it's necessary to have these resources, then they should be subsidized by the government and regulated. I suppose sort of like youtube, where hits = money but false hits/spam are delt with.

And comparing burgurly to copyringht infringement. :roll:

Are you going to pay for that subsidization? Public state schools are already cutting back in every field and raising tuition. And where do you think this research comes from? Do you think it is free for a team of PhD's to collaborate on a research project for years that they then publish in a peer reviewed journal? Do you think they work for nothing?

You all seem to somehow ignore the fact that WE LIVE IN A CAPITALISTIC SOCIETY. Everything costs money.

It is a giant circle. Researchers collaborate > Work (for money (grants usually)) > Come up with something > Write an article > Sell their article and research to a journal > The journal sells itself to database providers > The database providers sell their databases to universities > Universities give their students access to the information > Educated people emerge > Become researches > Researchers collaborate

Now put in that circle FREE where they sell their research and articles. Now who is going to pay for their research? Who is going to pay them? Who is going to review it (which costs money)? If there is no one to review it through peer review then what separates the bullsh-t from the academically acceptable? Why would you even want to put your life into research and the likes if there is absolutely no financial gain for yourself?

Do you think we live in some utopian socialist society where everyone only cares about everyone else? Because if so your are incredibly wrong.

You all seem to somehow ignore the fact that WE LIVE IN A CAPITALISTIC SOCIETY. Everything costs money.C2N2

was wondering how long it would take for Kura to start b*tching about capitalism.

was wondering how long it would take for Kura to start b*tching about capitalism.

Storm_Marine

[QUOTE="Storm_Marine"]

was wondering how long it would take for Kura to start b*tching about capitalism.

kuraimen

i doubt it actually

[QUOTE="Champo9"][QUOTE="C2N2"]

Considering universities pay for hundreds of thousands of dollars in licenses, if not millions in some schools, for their students to have proprietary access to that information WHICH IS LEGALLY OWNED AND DISTRIBUTED by someone else. I don't really see a problem here. Just because it was done on a computer and for a "good" reason doesn't make his theft any less criminal?

Is it ok for me to break into people's homes and rob them because I have no money and will starve otherwise?

And they compare his sentence to one count of individual heinous crimes when he was being charged with thirteen counts of various felonies (felony in US court equating to a crime with a sentence of over one year).

Not really anything to see here, he broke the law, got caught, was being indicted for his criminal actions.

C2N2

Say I am broke, I need money to feed my daughter, is it ok for me to rob a bank to feed her? I am helping someone?

Say taxes are getting too high and people can't afford them anymore, is it ok for me to assassinate heads of the governement? I am helping people?

Say a bank is about to foreclose on a lot of homes and people will be thrown out... Is it ok for me to blow that bank up? I am helping people?

We have laws for a reason.

And yes, such a sentence is more than appropriate.

please stop making these terrible comparisons.

YEAH IM WITH TEH PATRIOTS HERE I MEAN IMAGINE IF YOU ARE LIKE TOTALLY RICH AND THEN THIS GUY COMES AND STEALS HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS WORTH OF INFORMATION FROM YOU TO HELP SOME GUY WHO'S DYING WOULDN'T YOU WANT TO SEE HIM TORTURED TO DEATH WHAT ARE YOU A COMMUNIST IF YOU LOVE SOCIALISM SO MUCH GO MOVE TO NORTH KOREA MORICA NUMBER 1 R0X0RZ FREEDOM!!!!

YEAH IM WITH TEH PATRIOTS HERE I MEAN IMAGINE IF YOU ARE LIKE TOTALLY RICH AND THEN THIS GUY COMES AND STEALS HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS WORTH OF INFORMATION FROM YOU TO HELP SOME GUY WHO'S DYING WOULDN'T YOU WANT TO SEE HIM TORTURED TO DEATH WHAT ARE YOU A COMMUNIST IF YOU LOVE SOCIALISM SO MUCH GO MOVE TO NORTH KOREA MORICA NUMBER 1 R0X0RZ FREEDOM!!!!

LordQuorthon

how many people here are ape-ish enough to actually think you're funny/clever?

[QUOTE="C2N2"]You all seem to somehow ignore the fact that WE LIVE IN A CAPITALISTIC SOCIETY. Everything costs money.kuraimen

[QUOTE="Inconsistancy"]

[QUOTE="C2N2"]

Considering universities pay for hundreds of thousands of dollars in licenses, if not millions in some schools, for their students to have proprietary access to that information WHICH IS LEGALLY OWNED AND DISTRIBUTED by someone else. I don't really see a problem here. Just because it was done on a computer and for a "good" reason doesn't make his theft any less criminal?

Is it ok for me to break into people's homes and rob them because I have no money and will starve otherwise?

And they compare his sentence to one count of individual heinous crimes when he was being charged with thirteen counts of various felonies (felony in US court equating to a crime with a sentence of over one year).

Not really anything to see here, he broke the law, got caught, was being indicted for his criminal actions.

C2N2

If it's necessary to have these resources, then they should be subsidized by the government and regulated. I suppose sort of like youtube, where hits = money but false hits/spam are delt with.

And comparing burgurly to copyringht infringement. :roll:

Are you going to pay for that subsidization? Public state schools are already cutting back in every field and raising tuition. And where do you think this research comes from? Do you think it is free for a team of PhD's to collaborate on a research project for years that they then publish in a peer reviewed journal? Do you think they work for nothing?

You all seem to somehow ignore the fact that WE LIVE IN A CAPITALISTIC SOCIETY. Everything costs money.

It is a giant circle. Researchers collaborate > Work (for money (grants usually)) > Come up with something > Write an article > Sell their article and research to a journal > The journal sells itself to database providers > The database providers sell their databases to universities > Universities give their students access to the information > Educated people emerge > Become researches > Researchers collaborate

Now put in that circle FREE where they sell their research and articles. Now who is going to pay for their research? Who is going to pay them? Who is going to review it (which costs money)? If there is no one to review it through peer review then what separates the bullsh-t from the academically acceptable? Why would you even want to put your life into research and the likes if there is absolutely no financial gain for yourself?

Do you think we live in some utopian socialist society where everyone only cares about everyone else? Because if so your are incredibly wrong.

*I believe they're payed in taxes, by the people.

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="C2N2"]You all seem to somehow ignore the fact that WE LIVE IN A CAPITALISTIC SOCIETY. Everything costs money.chrisrooR

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

[QUOTE="Champo9"] So 50 years is an appropriate sentence? He was helping people.Champo9

Considering universities pay for hundreds of thousands of dollars in licenses, if not millions in some schools, for their students to have proprietary access to that information WHICH IS LEGALLY OWNED AND DISTRIBUTED by someone else. I don't really see a problem here. Just because it was done on a computer and for a "good" reason doesn't make his theft any less criminal?

Is it ok for me to break into people's homes and rob them because I have no money and will starve otherwise?

And they compare his sentence to one count of individual heinous crimes when he was being charged with thirteen counts of various felonies (felony in US court equating to a crime with a sentence of over one year).

Not really anything to see here, he broke the law, got caught, was being indicted for his criminal actions.

C2N2

For everyone supporting Swartz's action doesn't realize that what he did is the equivalent of file sharing/piracy. People work hard on their research and to get them published in prestigous journals. He took published material and was planning on allowing others to download them for free.

I'm sure thinkprogress.org has the most unbiased account of what happened.

For everyone supporting Swartz's action doesn't realize that what he did is the equivalent of file sharing/piracy.

nintendoman562

Whoa, brah! Now that you put it in those terms, I'm actually kind of glad he killed himself. File sharing? WOW! PIRACY? Holy crap!

[QUOTE="C2N2"]

[QUOTE="Inconsistancy"] I believe that academic research should be freely available for everyone. It is the majority of our species' cumulative knowledge, and hiding it behind the walls of privilege($) is unfair to the progress of man's knowledge, enjoyment, and creativity.

If it's necessary to have these resources, then they should be subsidized by the government and regulated. I suppose sort of like youtube, where hits = money but false hits/spam are delt with.

And comparing burgurly to copyringht infringement. :roll:

Inconsistancy

Are you going to pay for that subsidization? Public state schools are already cutting back in every field and raising tuition. And where do you think this research comes from? Do you think it is free for a team of PhD's to collaborate on a research project for years that they then publish in a peer reviewed journal? Do you think they work for nothing?

You all seem to somehow ignore the fact that WE LIVE IN A CAPITALISTIC SOCIETY. Everything costs money.

It is a giant circle. Researchers collaborate > Work (for money (grants usually)) > Come up with something > Write an article > Sell their article and research to a journal > The journal sells itself to database providers > The database providers sell their databases to universities > Universities give their students access to the information > Educated people emerge > Become researches > Researchers collaborate

Now put in that circle FREE where they sell their research and articles. Now who is going to pay for their research? Who is going to pay them? Who is going to review it (which costs money)? If there is no one to review it through peer review then what separates the bullsh-t from the academically acceptable? Why would you even want to put your life into research and the likes if there is absolutely no financial gain for yourself?

Do you think we live in some utopian socialist society where everyone only cares about everyone else? Because if so your are incredibly wrong.

*I believe they're payed in taxes, by the people.

That is what I am asking... Are YOU willing to have your taxes raised to subsidize that? I know right now the US just pulls money out of thin air and probably will the next few decades, but 2030, 2040 when we have long since emerged from a recession and *hopefully* have a balanced budget. Unlike now, increased spending means increased revenue will be needed somewhere.

For everyone supporting Swartz's action doesn't realize that what he did is the equivalent of file sharing/piracy. People work hard on their research and to get them published in prestigous journals. He took published material and was planning on allowing others to download them for free.

nintendoman562

If JSTOR cared then they would have pursued the case, they didn't. This seems nothing more then the government trying to make a example of a person who did something stupid. Especially considering that the data had practically no value.

and we thought North Korea was evil one

A lot of crimes have high "maximum sentences" but they usually dont get the max. That's just probably what he could have gotten.