Agnosticism vs Atheism

People who are not religious, or are skeptical of the existance of deities, which view do you choose and why? I've had some debates about agnosticism and atheism with an atheist friend of mine, and I am convinced that Agnosticism is the more scientific approach to the idea of God, while Atheism seems to be more of a belief.

People who are religious, which do you find more appealing, and why or why not? In other words, would you respect an agnostic more or an atheist.

Agnosticism (from the Greek "a," meaning "without," and Gnosticism or "gnosis," meaning knowledge) means "unknowable."

Agnostics claim either that it is not possible to have absolute or certain knowledge of God or gods; or, alternatively, that while individual certainty may be possible, they personally have no knowledge. Agnosticism in both cases involves some form of skepticism.

Atheism is the philosophical position that either affirms the nonexistence of gods[1] or rejects theism.[2] When defined more broadly, atheism is the absence of belief in deities, sometimes called nontheism.[3] Although atheists are commonly assumed to be irreligious, some religions, such as Buddhism, have been characterized as atheistic.[4][5]

You can be an agnostic and still be an atheist, theist, pantheist, or deist.CptJSparrow

I suppose you are correct. I myself claim to be an Agnostic Christian.

I am a Christian, but it doesn't matter to me what they are as long as they're respectful to me.

That being said, I've seen more respectful agnostics than Atheists, but there have been some respectful Atheists and disrespectful agnostics as well.

I am a Christian, but it doesn't matter to me what they are as long as they're respectful to me.

That being said, I've seen more respectful agnostics than Atheists, but there have been some respectful Atheists and disrespectful agnostics as well.

Silver_Dragon17

Which sect of Christianity do you follow? Do you believe that the Bible is the inerrant word of God, or do you believe it is mainly man-made with some influence from God. If you do believe the Bible is inerrant, which version of the Bible do you follow and why?

[QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]

I am a Christian, but it doesn't matter to me what they are as long as they're respectful to me.

That being said, I've seen more respectful agnostics than Atheists, but there have been some respectful Atheists and disrespectful agnostics as well.

drewtwo99

Which sect of Christianity do you follow? Do you believe that the Bible is the inerrant word of God, or do you believe it is mainly man-made with some influence from God. If you do believe the Bible is inerrant, which version of the Bible do you follow and why?

Wow. Lotsa questions.:P

I was raised Baptist, but I don't really follow men. Just God. So I guess I would be considered Evangelical, even though I don't consider myself that.

I believe it was written by men under the influence of God. God wouldn't let people say something about Him that wasn't true.

I don't think the Bible is inerrant anymore, because it has been altered so many times in history. However, I still believe that the most important areas of the Bible are still there, as God wouldn't want those left out.

Athiest. There is no god, no debate abuot it. Yet someone will post "how can you be sure" or some stupid crap. Don't. Shut up and deal with it; there is no god. Never....Humans invented god.TallicaFan2005

Wow. Lotsa questions.:P

I was raised Baptist, but I don't really follow men. Just God. So I guess I would be considered Evangelical, even though I don't consider myself that.

I believe it was written by men under the influence of God. God wouldn't let people say something about Him that wasn't true.

I don't think the Bible is inerrant anymore, because it has been altered so many times in history. However, I still believe that the most important areas of the Bible are still there, as God wouldn't want those left out.

Silver_Dragon17

Thank you very much for your replies. I have to say that I really respect your religious point of view, from what you've said, it seems to be very realistic and good goal oriented. Though I know I disagree with you on certain points (homosexuality) I have to say that your belief system is admirable. The world would be a better place with more Christians like yourself.

Athiest. There is no god, no debate abuot it. Yet someone will post "how can you be sure" or some stupid crap. Don't. Shut up and deal with it; there is no god. Never....Humans invented god.TallicaFan2005

To say there's no debate about the existance of God is truly ignorant.

I am atheist simply because i take the stance if there is no proof then there is no reason to believe.Loonie

Sounds like an agnostic point of view to me, because that's how I describe my agnostic point of view. A lack of proof eitherway yeilds uncertainty in the existance or nonexistance of a God.

Athiest. There is no god, no debate abuot it. Yet someone will post "how can you be sure" or some stupid crap. Don't. Shut up and deal with it; there is no god. Never....Humans invented god.TallicaFan2005

[QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]

Wow. Lotsa questions.:P

I was raised Baptist, but I don't really follow men. Just God. So I guess I would be considered Evangelical, even though I don't consider myself that.

I believe it was written by men under the influence of God. God wouldn't let people say something about Him that wasn't true.

I don't think the Bible is inerrant anymore, because it has been altered so many times in history. However, I still believe that the most important areas of the Bible are still there, as God wouldn't want those left out.

drewtwo99

Thank you very much for your replies. I have to say that I really respect your religious point of view, from what you've said, it seems to be very realistic and good goal oriented. Though I know I disagree with you on certain points (homosexuality) I have to say that your belief system is admirable. The worold would be a better place with more Christians like yourself.

Thank you very much. I appreciate that there are still some people with maturity out there. I hope you one day find what you are looking for, as I assume you are looking for something if you are Agnostic.

I don't believe in god, infact, I know in my heart that god doesn't exist....too many bad things has happened to me, my loved ones and people around the world...oh, and there's no proof whatsoeverof his existence...

I'm what they call a weak atheist, or an agnostic. Here's my standard answer as to why...

If you look at the whole of human history, very rarely do humans leave difficult questions unanswered for long. That's not to say that we satisfactorily answer the questions, but that instead we usually make up our own answers when the real answers are presently beyond our reach. Religious examples include everything from the Sun, to the cause of disease, the origin of lightning and thunder, conception, the tides, etc. How many events, large and small, have been mistakenly attributed to the direct influence of a supernatural being in human history? More than you or I could ever count, I'm sure.

Answering our own questions isn't the only problem. We also have a habit of asking the wrong questions. For example, for centuries we asked ourselves what happens to water at the end of the Earth rather than questioning whether or not the Earth was actually flat to begin with. There's nothing wrong with asking the wrong questions. After all, they often lead to the right ones. The point is not to assume that we're asking the right questions to begin with. For example, do you ever find yourself asking, "How did it all begin?" Perhaps there was no beginning as we understand it and the better question is "What is that nature of all that is?" Or how about, "What is the meaning of life?" Perhaps the better question is, "How do I give my life meaning." Think on that one for a minute.

So have we learned from our mistakes? Meh, some have, some haven't. Many of us still attribute the unknown to a god, or gods, or something supernatural or spiritual. Others are convinced science holds an explanation for everything and happily piggy back onto the latest theories of which they have little to no understanding.

From my perspective it takes faith to be a theist or a non-agnostic atheist. Believing that there is or is not a God in the lack of any suitable evidence is okay, but it's still a leap of faith. Being agnostic just means I'm okay saying, "I don't know, and I probably never will." I don't grasp for conclusions... scientific or otherwise, and I don't assume I'm asking the right questions.

So that's where I stand. What's the point? I have faith too, not in God or Science but in my fellow man. We're not there yet but I think we're fast approaching the day where we'll be able to pursue the big questions without answering them first, and I think we'll all be better for it.

***~~~***
The counter argument:

sounds like a cowardly cop-out if you ask me.
***~~~***

I'll respect your opinion, but here is mine...

I think the cop-out is to jump to conclusions without enough evidence to logically come to any semblance of a conclusion. . I think it requires a much stronger countenance to accept what we don't know, and then to accept that despite our efforts most of us will probably never find adequate answers in our time.

I can understand the "cop-out" response because many people consider agnosticism to be "walking the line," but that's really not the case. The true agnostic isn't torn between atheism and theism. The true agnostic leaves room for an infinite number of outside possibilities while everyone is focused on answering the wrong questions or coming to false conclusions on the right ones.

Cop-out? Not in my opinion. The most sound and intelligent response to unknown possibilities? Perhaps. I certainly think so.Schwah

Thank you very much. I appreciate that there are still some people with maturity out there. I hope you one day find what you are looking for, as I assume you are looking for something if you are Agnostic.

Silver_Dragon17

Ah, well like I said, I'm an Agnostic Christian. I believe in many of the tenants of Christianity, yet I purport that these things are impossible to know. For me, religion is a personal issue, and because of the impossibility of knowing it for sure, I feel no need to spread my religious views.

I don't think it's wise to assume Agnostic people in general are searching for something though, I believe that Agnostics in general are happy with their beliefs, as not everyone needs to accept a deity to make reality an interesting or worthwhile thing. I myself don't really live much for my religion, as existence itself is enough for me, but my religious views are important nonetheless.

I myself am an empirical agnostic.

Here is something Schwah wrote about agnosticism a while back that I just felt needed to be saved.

[quote="Schwah"]I'm what they call a weak atheist, or an agnostic. Here's my standard answer as to why...

If you look at the whole of human history, very rarely do humans leave difficult questions unanswered for long. That's not to say that we satisfactorily answer the questions, but that instead we usually make up our own answers when the real answers are presently beyond our reach. Religious examples include everything from the Sun, to the cause of disease, the origin of lightning and thunder, conception, the tides, etc. How many events, large and small, have been mistakenly attributed to the direct influence of a supernatural being in human history? More than you or I could ever count, I'm sure.

Answering our own questions isn't the only problem. We also have a habit of asking the wrong questions. For example, for centuries we asked ourselves what happens to water at the end of the Earth rather than questioning whether or not the Earth was actually flat to begin with. There's nothing wrong with asking the wrong questions. After all, they often lead to the right ones. The point is not to assume that we're asking the right questions to begin with. For example, do you ever find yourself asking, "How did it all begin?" Perhaps there was no beginning as we understand it and the better question is "What is that nature of all that is?" Or how about, "What is the meaning of life?" Perhaps the better question is, "How do I give my life meaning." Think on that one for a minute.

So have we learned from our mistakes? Meh, some have, some haven't. Many of us still attribute the unknown to a god, or gods, or something supernatural or spiritual. Others are convinced science holds an explanation for everything and happily piggy back onto the latest theories of which they have little to no understanding.

From my perspective it takes faith to be a theist or a non-agnostic atheist. Believing that there is or is not a God in the lack of any suitable evidence is okay, but it's still a leap of faith. Being agnostic just means I'm okay saying, "I don't know, and I probably never will." I don't grasp for conclusions... scientific or otherwise, and I don't assume I'm asking the right questions.

So that's where I stand. What's the point? I have faith too, not in God or Science but in my fellow man. We're not there yet but I think we're fast approaching the day where we'll be able to pursue the big questions without answering them first, and I think we'll all be better for it.

***~~~***
The counter argument:

sounds like a cowardly cop-out if you ask me.
***~~~***

I'll respect your opinion, but here is mine...

I think the cop-out is to jump to conclusions without enough evidence to logically come to any semblance of a conclusion. . I think it requires a much stronger countenance to accept what we don't know, and then to accept that despite our efforts most of us will probably never find adequate answers in our time.

I can understand the "cop-out" response because many people consider agnosticism to be "walking the line," but that's really not the case. The true agnostic isn't torn between atheism and theism. The true agnostic leaves room for an infinite number of outside possibilities while everyone is focused on answering the wrong questions or coming to false conclusions on the right ones.

Cop-out? Not in my opinion. The most sound and intelligent response to unknown possibilities? Perhaps. I certainly think so.foxhound_fox

Yeah definitely. As a self-identifying agnostic, I totally agree with him. I even personally believe in a deity, yet, the agnostic approach to life and questioning is how I see myself persuing knowledge.

[QUOTE="Loonie"]I am atheist simply because i take the stance if there is no proof then there is no reason to believe.drewtwo99

Sounds like an agnostic point of view to me, because that's how I describe my agnostic point of view. A lack of proof eitherway yeilds uncertainty in the existance or nonexistance of a God.

No, because without proof there is no god. Not; well there is no proof but there might be a god.

Thats the difference.

[QUOTE="drewtwo99"]

[QUOTE="Loonie"]I am atheist simply because i take the stance if there is no proof then there is no reason to believe.Loonie

Sounds like an agnostic point of view to me, because that's how I describe my agnostic point of view. A lack of proof eitherway yeilds uncertainty in the existance or nonexistance of a God.

No, because without proof there is no god. Not; well there is no proof but there might be a god.

Thats the difference.

I believe that the idea of a deity is that it doesn't have proof of its existence. So, it is intrinsically unprovable, meaning that a lack of evidence of a deity is intrinsically going to be part of the thing. A lack of proof of a deity is simply fullfiling part of the requirement of being a deity... which means that we can never know whether they exist or not because we can't ever find proof of them.

Agnostic. Though while I don't think that it is possible for a supreme being to exist, I acknowledge that there is a very remote chance for such a being to exist. In the mean time, I'm living how I choose, what makes me happy, and others happy.MattUD1

Very cool, thanks for your input. I essentially agree. Though I think I'm less skeptical than you.

Nihilism FTW!DFan17902

[QUOTE="MattUD1"]Agnostic. Though while I don't think that it is possible for a supreme being to exist, I acknowledge that there is a very remote chance for such a being to exist. In the mean time, I'm living how I choose, what makes me happy, and others happy.drewtwo99

Very cool, thanks for your input. I essentially agree. Though I think I'm less skeptical than you.

[QUOTE="DFan17902"]Nihilism FTW!CptJSparrow

Exactly. When it comes down to it, I consider myself a Nihilist.

I may not have a great understanding of Nihilism, but to me, it seems that people who identify as nihilists aren't always the most pleasant to be around. Maybe I"ve just had bad luck. drewtwo99

Hehehe... bad luck doesn't exist. :wink:

I may not have a great understanding of Nihilism, but to me, it seems that people who identify as nihilists aren't always the most pleasant to be around. Maybe I"ve just had bad luck. drewtwo99

[QUOTE="drewtwo99"]I may not have a great understanding of Nihilism, but to me, it seems that people who identify as nihilists aren't always the most pleasant to be around. Maybe I"ve just had bad luck. DFan17902

Hehehe... bad luck doesn't exist. :wink:

[QUOTE="DFan17902"]

[QUOTE="drewtwo99"]I may not have a great understanding of Nihilism, but to me, it seems that people who identify as nihilists aren't always the most pleasant to be around. Maybe I"ve just had bad luck. MattUD1

Hehehe... bad luck doesn't exist. :wink:

For that matter, "luck" itself, good or bad, does not exist.

I will respect either an agnostic or atheist, but based upon how they respond to the question of a supernal force do I change my views. The agnostic is willing to cite the fact that they simply do not know, and this may be due to a spiritual or religious phenomenon that did not have the effect that usually occurs with such things (conversion, spiritual devotion, etc). The atheist, on the other hand, may be completely confounded by their 'reasonable and logical' conclusion that no God exists, without considering the vast implications of a supernal being that is beyond comprehension.

The problem is that the current God image that is in common acceptance is the incomplete God of Christian religion. Now what I mean by incomplete is that the God is commonly asserted as perfect, all-good, and creator. But the image created thereof is lacking. For if the creator God is all good then how did the formulation of evil come about? And asserting that the devil is the creator of evil does not answer the question of why this God created the devil in the first place among all his other creations. The otherwise glaring flaws in theaspects of the Christian God is where the atheist usually recides and claims his or her distinct message of due to the glaring lack of evidence and imperfections such a God could not exist, but this does not in fact disprove the existence of what inherently is supernal in quality, and to assert that we know anything of supernal phenomenon is a glaring oversight.

Thus im of the notion that the common atheist is in fact an atheist of the Christian God concept and overlooks other conceptual phenomenon of God. Although when taken in such a context the atheist can assert the non-evidential nature towards similar God concepts such as the Judaic and Islamic God, since they in fact carry very similar overtones to that of the Christian God, they are all in fact Abrahamic in origin.

Personally I think its too much to refute all God's and all religions as non-existent or non-evidential because of the abundance of empirical evidence and cultural importance of God or God's. That is why im more likely to respect the agnostic who is willing to assert that he doesnt know among the sea of mythological and theological information, rather than atheist who is willing to throw such information away as if it never existed in the first place.

I guess I'm Atheist.

What I hate is when people say they know they're going to heaven and they have no doubt in their mind that they aren't. There was this one girl in my lit class that said that and I wanted to tell her off and tell her there's no way to prove or disprove if a god exists and if anyone goes to heaven or not. But I don't talk a lot in class so people would be really surprised if I said something like that, because people wouldn't expect me to say that.

Agnostics FTW.

Atheists are just as crazy and illogical as the theists. :P