allegation automatic gulty?.

I thought it use to be innocent until proven guilty no matter what the crime. Seems these days especially celebs its automatically guilty with bad consequences from pulling films from Netflix to automatic sacking. If true then yes but why are these celebs been sacked just because of allegations?.

Innocent until proven guilty applies ONLY to criminal court cases. It does NOT apply to personal opinions as to character.

That's how it should be. The accusations shouldn't even come out until after being found guilty in a court of law. Unfortunately the news runs with whatever he/she says and ruins many people's lives. Whether the allegations are true or not usually cannot be proved, so people assume the worse.

Used to be? That was never the case. If you get accused, the public view on you is left up to their interpretations regardless..that has never changed. This is where the word "alleged" comes into play but the public can view it however they will view it.

An accusation should always be taken seriously. Regardless of where it is coming from, or how many of them there are.

I have a question... how many celebrities accused of sexual misconduct, harassment or abuse have been found innocent of the accused crimes (not just acquitted due to lack of evidence)?

I'd wager approximately none, since it's not the court's job to prove innocence.

Anyway, while I think it may be kind of bullshit that someone's career can be ruined with no evidence beyond a mere accusation, I agree that accusations should be taken very seriously.

Let's take a more mundane scenario: someone posting a bad review on yelp. So you go out to eat and then post a review of the restaurant saying that your waiter was a lazy and rude piece of shit. Now, if it's solely a single accusation with no actual evidence to back it up, then I do think it'd be sort of bullshit for that waiter to get fired over it. But if more comments about this waiter being rude and lazy start appearing, then I think that firing him/her over such accusations is likely warranted even if there's no actual PROOF that the accusations are true. The fact still remains that at a certain point the accusations start being bad for business, especially when you've accumulated enough accusations to make it unlikely that ALL of the accusers are lying.

You know the saying, "where there's smoke, there's PROBABLY fire." One thing I've noticed about a lot of these Hollywood accusations is that a lot of people who are being accused are people who I could TOTALLY see doing that kind of shit. I mean, if a single accusation came out about Tom Hanks being a predatory perv, I'd be inclined to disbelieve it outright. But if it's someone like Brett Ratner or Louis C.K., who've already been surrounded by rumors of being total creeps, I'm more likely to say, "this still isn't proof, but hearing this doesn't surprise me in the least."

@MrGeezer: Those rumours gotta start somewhere.

Allegations aren't facts but it's worth investigating.

Because a court of law and the court of public opinion are not the same thing. And large companies care a lot more about the court of public opinion

View that however you'd like

Yeah I have sort of a problem with this myself.

On one hand, some of these people are scumbags and we can't really wait for the incredibly slow (doubly so if the person is wealthy) legal system to handle it, so we need the court of public opinion to step in and sanction these people; stop them from making money, getting work, and spreading whatever they were.

On the flip side, you have someone like Louis CK: yeah, he was kind of gross, but iirc he didn't actually assault anyone or doing anything with animosity, drugs, and so forth (not like Cosby, for example). Louis CK also made a really great apology and, while it does not excuse what he did, I feel it is possible for him to make amends. This was also done due to the court of public opinion, so some good came of this; I just wonder what the rest of his career will entail, if he can bounce back from this. The guy is not only hilarious, but he is the creator/writer/producer of some phenomenal entertainment.

On the other hand, some allegations are false (not victim blaming here, it's just the truth) or ambiguous at best, so I feel in most cases things like this are best handled in private, by the legal system, and everyone involved should get a fair opportunity. I mean if a college student was falsely accused of rape and that shit was made public--to the school admin, facebook, twitter, instagram, etc--that guy is not welcome at the school, his reputation is ruined, and a good chunk of his life is as well since he will "always be that guy that was accused of rape and not found guilty".

@mrbojangles25: Then do you hold that same opinion for other charges?

you mean keeping it private? That's a very good question and tbh I am not sure.

I mean if someone is accused of murder, and it is done officially, and this person makes bail, then I suppose it is the public's right to know; you generally cannot formally accuse someone (iirc) unless there is evidence and so forth.

For other crimes, ones that do not pose a threat to the general public, I think those can be kept a bit more private (obviously there is paperwork filed and anyone looking for names will find out, but as far as announcing the accusation that won't happen.

But then you have this whole notion of women coming forward after a single woman accuses someone of sexual assault; without that public announcement, other women might not feel safe enough to step forward. When you make something public, women can go "Hey, I'm not alone, I'm not the only one".

There is not really an easy answer here. In general, though, I think private is better.

@thegerg: I meant before the media releases it. The accuser should go to the police and a trial should be made.

I fear of ever being accused of sexual assault. The potential to ruin my life sans evidence exists, and the court of public opinion in this matter is unmerciful and not on my side.

I’m crossing fingers, and this makes me extremely cautious about who I let close to me....especially women.

Regarding courts it's innocent until proven otherwise, Public opinion however tends to work more on the "no smoke without fire".

That's why we have the court system.

Most times they demonize the women as liars. In the Weinstein case it's probably because they are celebs with money and a lot of them that isn't being done. But look at the political ones. Makes the women victims again.

@LJS9502_basic: Exactly this.

Legally, it SHOULD go through a process. However, I can hate on a guy that diddle's little girls all I want. Or somebody that uses their position for sexual favors (Damn you Louis!)

@skipper847: Talking about Spacey? he almost admitted it and then made the excuse "oh I was just drunk, welp".

Also, it is difficult to prove such cases in court, even if over 20 people have now made allegations, and that is just at the Old Vic. Now, none of that stops people weighing up the evidence themselves and coming to a conclusion, especially with zero denials from him and some others.

Accusations tend to bring out the herd mentality in society, you will be immediately outcasted regardless of the facts the moment you are accused simply because people don't want to associate with the subject that you are accused of.