America vs. China ... (no nukes to make it interesting)

Right now, if America and China were to go to war who would win?

I just love to see your guy's political opinions.

Nobody. :P

Nobody. :P

GabuEx

At the moment, I'd have money on the U.S. Twenty years down the road, who knows?

With no holding back, America would destroy China without any effort.

In 15-20 years, who knows...?

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

Nobody. :P

Virtual_Price

Well what kind of war are we talking about, and how are we defining "win"? Just getting the other side to surrender? Real-life wars aren't like a Starcraft match where you engage the other player just for the sake of doing so and you win when the other player leaves the game.

Well what kind of war are we talking about, and how are we defining "win"? Just getting the other side to surrender?

GabuEx

Look up how the world ended up in Fallout. That's what would happen if China and US went to war. considering it's the exact same conflict.Marksman2200

That would make sense if China had a sizable nuclear arsenal, and the U.S. couldn't mitigate a fair portion of in in flight. China is not Russia.

[QUOTE="Virtual_Price"]

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

Nobody. :P

Well what kind of war are we talking about, and how are we defining "win"? Just getting the other side to surrender? Real-life wars aren't like a Starcraft match where you engage the other player just for the sake of doing so and you win when the other player leaves the game.

If the entire population of China were to jump up and down simultaneously they could engulf the USA in a tidal wave. Game over.

If the entire population of China were to jump up and down simultaneously they could engulf the USA in a tidal wave. Game over.

GodzillavsXenu

no one, as the second response said.

but objectively, I'd say the US. China has numbers, but in these days that doesnt count for much, especially when China's military is using equipment that is lagging 20+ years behind the US's.

Sure...China has SAM's that could easily shoot down a U2 spyplane, but does that matter in the satellite age? And sure, China could mass hundreds of thousands of soldiers on their fronts, but does that matter when a few dozen F-22s equipped with stealth technology and cluster bombs could take them out with ease?

I dont think so.

China would definately prove to be a formidable opponent, don't get me wrong, but ultimately we'd wipe the floor with them.

Not that I cite this material as appropriate, but anyone interested in a China vs US w ar should read the Tom Clancy book The BEar and the Dragon. Very good read, albeit slow for the first 2/3

If the entire population of China were to jump up and down simultaneously they could engulf the USA in a tidal wave. Game over.

Nobody, really. But from a military standpoint, America. More allies, better tech, more war based resources, etc. Only major hiccup I see us having is being forced to make all our own stuff again, seeing as how most everything comes from China.SeraphimGoddess

honestly I dont see the whole "making our stuff again" as a big issue. The US has more than enough domestic fuel to wage a war for as long as is practical, and as far as foreign goods are concerned there are plenty of countries that would jump at the opportunity to be our customers.

If anything, I'd wager a war with China would actually stimulate the US's economy after the initial shock of their withdrawel from our economy.

it depends on where they are fighting.funsohng

meh, not really

China wouldnt make it across the ocean.

And a fleet of US aircraft carriers, coupled with US airbases in allied nations (Korea and Japan, specifically) would allow the US to establish a beachhead with relative ease.

Sorry not trying to sound arrogant or anything (and I know that statement makes me sound that way lol), but there is a reason why the US is the last remaining legitimate superpower.

[QUOTE="SeraphimGoddess"]Nobody, really. But from a military standpoint, America. More allies, better tech, more war based resources, etc. Only major hiccup I see us having is being forced to make all our own stuff again, seeing as how most everything comes from China.mrbojangles25

honestly I dont see the whole "making our stuff again" as a big issue. The US has more than enough domestic fuel to wage a war for as long as is practical, and as far as foreign goods are concerned there are plenty of countries that would jump at the opportunity to be our customers.

If anything, I'd wager a war with China would actually stimulate the US's economy after the initial shock of their withdrawel from our economy.

This all depends on where this is happening.

Where is this hypothetical conflict occurring?

[QUOTE="funsohng"]it depends on where they are fighting.mrbojangles25

meh, not really

China wouldnt make it across the ocean.

And a fleet of US aircraft carriers, coupled with US airbases in allied nations (Korea and Japan, specifically) would allow the US to establish a beachhead with relative ease.

Sorry not trying to sound arrogant or anything (and I know that statement makes me sound that way lol), but there is a reason why the US is the last remaining legitimate superpower.

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

[QUOTE="SeraphimGoddess"]Nobody, really. But from a military standpoint, America. More allies, better tech, more war based resources, etc. Only major hiccup I see us having is being forced to make all our own stuff again, seeing as how most everything comes from China.Virtual_Price

honestly I dont see the whole "making our stuff again" as a big issue. The US has more than enough domestic fuel to wage a war for as long as is practical, and as far as foreign goods are concerned there are plenty of countries that would jump at the opportunity to be our customers.

If anything, I'd wager a war with China would actually stimulate the US's economy after the initial shock of their withdrawel from our economy.

This all depends on where this is happening.

Where is this hypothetical conflict occurring?

[QUOTE="Virtual_Price"][QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

honestly I dont see the whole "making our stuff again" as a big issue. The US has more than enough domestic fuel to wage a war for as long as is practical, and as far as foreign goods are concerned there are plenty of countries that would jump at the opportunity to be our customers.

If anything, I'd wager a war with China would actually stimulate the US's economy after the initial shock of their withdrawel from our economy.

mrbojangles25

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

[QUOTE="funsohng"]it depends on where they are fighting.funsohng

meh, not really

China wouldnt make it across the ocean.

And a fleet of US aircraft carriers, coupled with US airbases in allied nations (Korea and Japan, specifically) would allow the US to establish a beachhead with relative ease.

Sorry not trying to sound arrogant or anything (and I know that statement makes me sound that way lol), but there is a reason why the US is the last remaining legitimate superpower.

as do I, to be honest. China has a huge population in addition to a large amount of land spread over thousands upon thousand of square miles.

But to be honest I think the Chinese public would get so tired of the politics of their government they'd eventually rebel or simply give up. Sure they have a few billion people but what good are they when they dont want to fight (at best), or they rebel due to war weariness (at worst).

I know that is pure speculation, but I cant help but feel the Chinese people simply go "meh" currently; if pushed, "meh" will turn to "Dont freaking abuse us!" and the last straw will be drawn.

Communism has failed worldwide...China is "diluted" Communism, their country will fall eventually like all the others. Theytre just drawing it out. And before you (or anyone, for that matter) judges me, I am not some Yankee nationlist, I see value in some socialist and communist ideals, but as far as I am concerned it has been a failure for all other nations, and it will be so with China. All they need is a catalyst, and WWIII just might be that.

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

[QUOTE="Virtual_Price"] Hmmm, would our debt with China be over orrr? :PVirtual_Price

haha totally :P

no, the US would never invade China..they'd make the first shot. Or the US would make it look like they made the first shot.

Just like 9/11 :P

[QUOTE="funsohng"][QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

meh, not really

China wouldnt make it across the ocean.

And a fleet of US aircraft carriers, coupled with US airbases in allied nations (Korea and Japan, specifically) would allow the US to establish a beachhead with relative ease.

Sorry not trying to sound arrogant or anything (and I know that statement makes me sound that way lol), but there is a reason why the US is the last remaining legitimate superpower.

mrbojangles25

as do I, to be honest. China has a huge population in addition to a large amount of land spread over thousands upon thousand of square miles.

But to be honest I think the Chinese public would get so tired of the politics of their government they'd eventually rebel or simply give up. Sure they have a few billion people but what good are they when they dont want to fight (at best), or they rebel due to war weariness (at worst).

I know that is pure speculation, but I cant help but feel the Chinese people simply go "meh" currently; if pushed, "meh" will turn to "Dont freaking abuse us!" and the last straw will be drawn.

Communism has failed worldwide...China is "diluted" Communism, their country will fall eventually like all the others. Theytre just drawing it out. And before you (or anyone, for that matter) judges me, I am not some Yankee nationlist, I see value in some socialist and communist ideals, but as far as I am concerned it has been a failure for all other nations, and it will be so with China. All they need is a catalyst, and WWIII just might be that.

[QUOTE="Virtual_Price"]

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

China: you owe us money

US: HAHA oh really? I thought we were at war?

*US battles China, US wins, debt erased*

mrbojangles25

haha totally :P

no, the US would never invade China..they'd make the first shot. Or the US would make it look like they made the first shot.

Just like 9/11 :P

China does not have an offensive army. They are strictly there for defensive purposes. That means that the U.S. would have to attack China and that just wouldn't happen. SF_KiLLaMaN

This completely depends on who's turf the war is fought. America has the strongest army in the world due to size, technology, and training. China has the second strongest due to even more size and believe it or not, the Chinese are just as well trained and their gear isn't far behind the US, after all, they're one of 3 countries to have independently sent man into space.Heck, their standard issue T97 assault rifles are much much better than the M16/M4.Additionally, the Chinese government is friggin wealthy, so in wartime, they would be able to mobilize resources a lot quicker.

Since there is an ocean a few thousand miles across between them and well, they can't just nuke each other. America will win if China tries to invade because China can't provide carrier support for its invading armada, not to mention, Canada, Mexico, and eventually most of her allies will come to the rescue.

On the contrary, the US won't stand a chance if it tries to invade China. It will lose its naval advantage and succumb to the sear size of the Chinese military. And even if they do succeed in the invasion and topple the government, there is no way the US will tough out the resistance if it couldn't even crush the Iraqi insurgency....

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

[QUOTE="funsohng"] i'm not even Chinese so I'm not offended, it's just that I have hard time imagining USA winning a war in Chinese soil.funsohng

as do I, to be honest. China has a huge population in addition to a large amount of land spread over thousands upon thousand of square miles.

But to be honest I think the Chinese public would get so tired of the politics of their government they'd eventually rebel or simply give up. Sure they have a few billion people but what good are they when they dont want to fight (at best), or they rebel due to war weariness (at worst).

I know that is pure speculation, but I cant help but feel the Chinese people simply go "meh" currently; if pushed, "meh" will turn to "Dont freaking abuse us!" and the last straw will be drawn.

Communism has failed worldwide...China is "diluted" Communism, their country will fall eventually like all the others. Theytre just drawing it out. And before you (or anyone, for that matter) judges me, I am not some Yankee nationlist, I see value in some socialist and communist ideals, but as far as I am concerned it has been a failure for all other nations, and it will be so with China. All they need is a catalyst, and WWIII just might be that.

idunno about that, and I'd like to cite Afghanistan as precedent.

the US invaded Afghanistan, and the majority of conflict has erupted from insurgents, those fighters coming from outside afghanistan.

In fact, many afghanis, even former muhadjmadeens (spelling?), have enlisted with theWest to defend their country against the Taliban and Al Queda.

I feel if a people are oppressed enough they will side with the invaders.

The question, though, is whether the Chinese actually see who is the bad guy. I recently boycotted Foxconn motherboards and products because they force Chinese workers to makethem while working insanely long hours, for incredibly low pay, while living in horrible conditions.

Can the Chinese government convice their public that (arguably) the enemy is the West who forces them to live in horrible conditions, or will the workers see that the Chinese governemt (arguably) signed these contracts to begin with, forcing them to live such miserable lives? Also, what majority ofthe Chinese population lives such oppressed lives?

There are too many factors to consider; all I know is that if push comes to shove it will be a bloody mess, and thats not includin the social and economic toll it will take on both sides.

As of right now, however, I feel that China and the US is mutually beneficial on economic terms, while being socially opposed. ironcially, both of those facets are related (cheap labor = income for China, and low cost to the US).

Its just disgusting in the end, though :(

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

[QUOTE="Virtual_Price"] Yay! Let's invade China.

Virtual_Price

haha totally :P

no, the US would never invade China..they'd make the first shot. Or the US would make it look like they made the first shot.

Just like 9/11 :P

all of it.

fyi I generally A.) am being sarcastic, or B.) play Devil's Advocate on Gamespot (it allows me to practice my arguing skills).

Either way, take everything I saw with a grain of salt of humor lol :D

*ugh I drank too much, I meant to say "take everything I say with a grain of salt, or humor"

[QUOTE="Virtual_Price"]

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

haha totally :P

no, the US would never invade China..they'd make the first shot. Or the US would make it look like they made the first shot.

Just like 9/11 :P

all of it.

fyi I generally A.) am being sarcastic, or B.) play Devil's Advocate on Gamespot (it allows me to practice my arguing skills).

Either way, take everything I saw with a grain of salt of humor lol :D

*ugh I drank too much, I meant to say "take everything I say with a grain of salt, or humor"

Never figth a land war in Asia. I'm going with China if the US has to go on the offensive, but i can guarantee that neither side will surrender. The peace deal will be an armistice. As neietehr side will actually gain anything. And when thinking of this scenario, don't think of WW1, or WW2 a sit WILL be completely different.

Never figth a land war in Asia. I'm going with China if the US has to go on the offensive, but i can guarantee that neither side will surrender. The peace deal will be an armistice. As neietehr side will actually gain anything. And when thinking of this scenario, don't think of WW1, or WW2 a sit WILL be completely different.

lordreaven

out of curiosity, has anyone invaded China?

I know the japanese did, with relative success, before and during WWII, but outside of that I'd like to know.

There have got to be some history majors/history buffs on Gamespot OT tongiht!?

Jack Burton from Big Trouble in Little China would win.

Jack Burton from Big Trouble in Little China would win.

shoot-first

sorry dude, but at the end of the film one could easily speculate that Chinese troll hitchhiking on the back of his truck killed him and ate him

you lose.

[QUOTE="lordreaven"]

Never figth a land war in Asia. I'm going with China if the US has to go on the offensive, but i can guarantee that neither side will surrender. The peace deal will be an armistice. As neietehr side will actually gain anything. And when thinking of this scenario, don't think of WW1, or WW2 a sit WILL be completely different.

out of curiosity, has anyone invaded China?

I know the japanese did, with relative success, before and during WWII, but outside of that I'd like to know.

There have got to be some history majors/history buffs on Gamespot OT tongiht!?

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

[QUOTE="lordreaven"]

Never figth a land war in Asia. I'm going with China if the US has to go on the offensive, but i can guarantee that neither side will surrender. The peace deal will be an armistice. As neietehr side will actually gain anything. And when thinking of this scenario, don't think of WW1, or WW2 a sit WILL be completely different.

Virtual_Price

out of curiosity, has anyone invaded China?

I know the japanese did, with relative success, before and during WWII, but outside of that I'd like to know.

There have got to be some history majors/history buffs on Gamespot OT tongiht!?

Yeah but that was on Korea's turf iirc (or am I mistaken; did they go into China?). my friend's grandfather fought in that war; he would tell us stories of swarms of Chinese pushing into their zones, literally throwing themselves into machinegun fire and still managing to push forward.

I meant invading China, though

[QUOTE="Virtual_Price"][QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

out of curiosity, has anyone invaded China?

I know the japanese did, with relative success, before and during WWII, but outside of that I'd like to know.

There have got to be some history majors/history buffs on Gamespot OT tongiht!?

Yeah but that was on Korea's turf iirc (or am I mistaken; did they go into China?). my friend's grandfather fought in that war; he would tell us stories of swarms of Chinese pushing into their zones, literally throwing themselves into machinegun fire and still managing to push forward.

I meant invading China, though

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

[QUOTE="Virtual_Price"] The U.S. actually did fight China during the Korean War. When America pushes NK forces back onto China's and NK's border, China got pissed and attacked back. Quite oddly, a lot of people (or at least OT) don't know that. Virtual_Price

Yeah but that was on Korea's turf iirc (or am I mistaken; did they go into China?). my friend's grandfather fought in that war; he would tell us stories of swarms of Chinese pushing into their zones, literally throwing themselves into machinegun fire and still managing to push forward.

I meant invading China, though

MacArthur, iirc. He was a jerk, despite his service in WWII

*crazy bastard wanted to use nukes, too lol

Who would win, hm? I don't think anybody will "win" from such a war. Yeah, the US has technological advantages, but China has a huge numbers. I think both sides, no matter the circumstances, would suffer very heavy consequences (probably in terms of lives lost more than anything else). This is something I hope never happens. And besides, China is one of the oldest civilizations in history that still exists today. That has to count for something.XIntoTheBlue