I'd say a lot of them get more praise than they should -- especially Finding Nemo. I haven't seen Wall-E yet, so I wouldn't know what's going on with them now, but I thought Ratatoullie was a step in the right direction.
Are Pixar films overrated?
This topic is locked from further discussion.
[QUOTE="Nerd_Man"][QUOTE="Film-Guy"][QUOTE="Nerd_Man"][QUOTE="Film-Guy"][QUOTE="Nerd_Man"][QUOTE="Film-Guy"][QUOTE="Nerd_Man"]Compare Pixar to other movie companies?
Pixar is the only one who's ever had such a success rate with each and every film they've put out to date? They really are one of the greatest movie companies of our time.
Now before you name out something like "Oh but Cars wasn't that good", it still was a mega success, and in terms of quality, still shelves higher than the next animation company, like Dreamworks Animation.
That brings conclusion to why people always have high hopes for the next Pixar film before ever even seeing it... Considering this is the hands of Pixar, they've never had a failure. After over 20 years now (Getting started with short films), Pixar still remains on top of the competition as far as quality and storytelling goes... That's a record-breaker.. And they show no signs of slowing down.Pixar aint overrated - they deserve the recognition for the amazing things they do. You may not like everything they have done, but they sure as hell created some things that you can't help but get joy over. Something for everyone to enjoy, even if you're not a Pixar fanboy.
Film-Guy
First of all just because a movie makes alot of money doesnt mean its great. Date movie and epic movie made alot of money too you know. I can see what you are saying and I can appreciate the pixar films, but I do occasionaly want a more interesting film like Persepolis and a scanner darkly once in a while. I kinda wish pixar would make an R rated film.
Cars wasn't even bad like you make it seem..:|
Not the best Pixar film, sure, but it is still better than what other animation companies can do.
As for R-rated... Uhh... It's a wonder that Pixar has the capability of making a universally appealing movie that ANYONE can enjoy. Doesn't matter what country you live in that these movies are presented to, or how old you are, or gender. Pixar manages to make amazing films and stories without having a head blown off and guts splattering everywhere.
As for anime... Unlike Most anime, Pixar is universally appealing.
Anime... Not everyone understands the Japanese cultural references - which is why lots of people outside the culture don't like it. Other than maybe the people who have a sword collection under their bed.
Pixar, on the other hand, doesn't matter where they are shown, most people around the world have the ability to connect with them, and not be left in the dust for what the heck is going on.
Most anime I liked doesnt involve swords:| Also I didnt say cars was bad, I thought it was alright. I liked how they got George Carlin to do a voice of a car since I am a big fan of his. R rated doesnt mean having heads blown off or guts splattering everywhere, it might have some violence sure but it doesnt need to be that much. I would just really like to see Pixar use the great animation skills and apply it to a more mature storyline.
You get what I mean about people with swords. Most of the people outside the Japanese culture who enjoy anime are the ones who devote their time and money to actually learn a thing or two.. And that's only a minority.
And as for R-rated? What exactly did you want then? Shall I just say it's a wonder that Pixar can make an amazing film that literally anyone can enjoy that doesn't include the following: Violence, Language, Sexuality, Nudity, Crude humor, blood/gore, scary images, drug references, Or anything else that makes an R-rated movie? And those are all up to R-rated standards, so don't say Pixar has some violence in their movies.
Pixar are the masters of what they do, and they do it without needing any of the [Insert criteria here] that you want in a movie for it to be R-rated.
I just want them to experiment and take 3D animation somewhere interesting.
And you leave it up to Pixar because you know they're the ONLY ones who can do it right if they did? Hah, realllyyyyy, no other company can pull off your fantasy because you think Pixar is the best?
Don't say "Don't fill words into my mouth", because I just said it for you. But that's seriously how I see it now.
Forget Dreamworks, or Fox, or Sony Pictures - Pixar tops them all.
Pixar makes the most money, if they can profit off a more mature 3D animated film then others will try new things too.
Exactly. Everyone will see a Pixar movie if they put standard Disney dollar marketing into it. There's an open door waiting for them to step through, but they're just walking through the other already visited doors.
I just have a problem seeing Pixar winning these Animated Film oscars when I can't begin to compare them to the Best Film oscars each year. It's never even close. I'm not gong to ask Pixar to do one of those, but if they could just step into new territory away from their safety net..
Well Finding Nemo was a yawn fest.
Shrek 1 2 or 3 is better than anything pixar created.
[QUOTE="Lockedge"][QUOTE="ice144"][QUOTE="Lockedge"][QUOTE="Film-Guy"]Though I like them alot if you think about it they are really not that creative most of the time. They generally take either objects or animals that dont usually talk, and then make them talk and adventures and hilarity insues! Heck in terms of storytelling I think Anime is more creative. I cant see Pixar doing a film like Paprika or Princess Mononoke. Many people dont like anime because the animation quality is not very good and it doesnt look fluid enough. I can totally understand that, heck thats what I think sometimes when I watch crap like Inuyasha.
Also the over the top facial expressions like flipping upside down and twitching, blood spraying out of nose for some reason and stuff like that. That stuff annoys me too, thats why I dont watch alot of anime because the over the top expressions annoy me. There are gems though, Miyazaki continues to be more interesting than Pixar or any animation studio in America. What do you guys think? Oh I havent seen Wall E yet.
Film-Guy
Yes. yes they are. I've made dozens of posts about how bad some of their movies are, so I won't go into a lot of detail.
Toy Story 1 was good. A Bug's Life was also pretty good, even if Antz was better.
THEN, Toy Story 2 came out and they had a template for story progression and character development laid out. Following up TS2 was Monsters Inc which blatantly followed the template. It caused a ripple effect that spread through the entire CGI movie scene, causing abominations like Ice Age. Finding Nemo followed Monsters Inc, and it was equally atrocious.
I don't care how pretty Pixar's movies are. It's like saying "The Day After Tomorrow" is an awesome movie throughout simply because it looked pretty. The story progression was beyond stale and rehashed. The character development was beyond stale and rehashed. They were pretty cash cows churned out with no substance. A small adult humour joke here and there and critics go raving about how it appeals to all audiences. Right. Like I'm going to compare Monsters inc to a gem like The Rescuers.
The Incredibles was pretty decent, and gave me hope unti CARS came out and dashed that. Ratatouille came around and it was pretty great. Not an animated classic, but it was definitely Pixar's best since Toy Story. WALL-E was ok, but it was nothing outstanding. A little bit better than The Incredibles.
It seems like Pixar is trying to provide that kind of dumb comedy riddling saturday morning cartoons with the old Golden Age of Animation kind of caricatures, and then adding in some kind of watered down stereotypical drama. They're a Disney studio, so I don't expect them to be too adventurous, but I wish they could do something to break the mold on CG movies. They have the funds and they could afford a risk. They've succeeded in pidgeonholing all 3D animated movies into a single genre, and studios with smaller budgets can't afford to take a risk that could bankrupt them.
Anyways, I'm getting off track. Yes, Pixar films are overrated because at the very least their characters are hollow shells and their stories predictable to a T.
You ask for them to break the mold....if a movie that's fully about robots that couldn't even talk is not breaking the mold. Then you have finding nemo...then you have Toy Story...what exactly are you expecting from them? Each Pixar movie is incredibly different from the other, yet still able to hold the incredible quality that they are known for.
Or did I read your point wrong? Are you blaming Pixar because they opened the CG scene for other companies, such as Dreamworks, whose movies arent on the same quality? If so, you can't blame Pixar because other companies make bad films...
P.S. You thought Finding Nemo was atrocious? Egad.
Oh trust me, Dreamworks is definitely no better in terms of their story variety. They've provided a handful of laughs with a few of their template movies, but they're pretty much handcuffed to Pixar's standard.
And you think Finding nemo is breaking the mold? Are you kidding me? It's Monsters Inc 2. It's Toy Story 4. It's the same basic story progression, with different character models and a randomly generated backstory. Pixar has mastered the Fetch Quest movie, and somehow keeps it marketable. I guess that's Disney's doing more than anyone, though.
Yeah. Robots that can't talk, being able to talk is breaking the mold. Also, CARS with eyes for headlights is breaking the mold, because real cars can't see, or talk. Pixar is amazing. *rolls eyes*
I'm sorry if you misunderstand me. Pixar have an incredible team of animators that leave me in awe when I watch their movies. It's just too bad that I have to mute them while I watch. Pixar opened the CG market, and they're the standard bearer. No one else is going to innovate because no one else has the marketing power or money to do it. I CAN blame Pixar for setting a bad standard in movie quality. People bashed the heck out of disney movies like "Brother bear" and "Lilo & Stitch" yet Pixar's movies are no better in terms of plot progression and character development...the bread and butter in movies if you're looking at substance. Pixar makes up for it with catered laughs, and skilled voice actors to bring some essence of life to the film's stories, but even they can't salvage it.
Finding nemo was a beautiful film, but it had a terribly stereotypical story, one dimensional characters, the voice acting was rough around the edges, and all in all it was a template fetch quest Pixar classic.
I'll stop hating on Pixar the minute they release a noteworthy film.
I must be one of the few who actually liked Lilo and stitch.
Lilo & Stitch made me nauseous.
Yet, Pixar keeps making these kinds of movies. Disney made Pirates of the Caribbean. I'd like something along the lines of that from Pixar.
[QUOTE="Nerd_Man"][QUOTE="Film-Guy"][QUOTE="Nerd_Man"][QUOTE="Film-Guy"][QUOTE="Nerd_Man"][QUOTE="Film-Guy"][QUOTE="Nerd_Man"]Compare Pixar to other movie companies?
Pixar is the only one who's ever had such a success rate with each and every film they've put out to date? They really are one of the greatest movie companies of our time.
Now before you name out something like "Oh but Cars wasn't that good", it still was a mega success, and in terms of quality, still shelves higher than the next animation company, like Dreamworks Animation.
That brings conclusion to why people always have high hopes for the next Pixar film before ever even seeing it... Considering this is the hands of Pixar, they've never had a failure. After over 20 years now (Getting started with short films), Pixar still remains on top of the competition as far as quality and storytelling goes... That's a record-breaker.. And they show no signs of slowing down.Pixar aint overrated - they deserve the recognition for the amazing things they do. You may not like everything they have done, but they sure as hell created some things that you can't help but get joy over. Something for everyone to enjoy, even if you're not a Pixar fanboy.
Film-Guy
First of all just because a movie makes alot of money doesnt mean its great. Date movie and epic movie made alot of money too you know. I can see what you are saying and I can appreciate the pixar films, but I do occasionaly want a more interesting film like Persepolis and a scanner darkly once in a while. I kinda wish pixar would make an R rated film.
Cars wasn't even bad like you make it seem..:|
Not the best Pixar film, sure, but it is still better than what other animation companies can do.
As for R-rated... Uhh... It's a wonder that Pixar has the capability of making a universally appealing movie that ANYONE can enjoy. Doesn't matter what country you live in that these movies are presented to, or how old you are, or gender. Pixar manages to make amazing films and stories without having a head blown off and guts splattering everywhere.
As for anime... Unlike Most anime, Pixar is universally appealing.
Anime... Not everyone understands the Japanese cultural references - which is why lots of people outside the culture don't like it. Other than maybe the people who have a sword collection under their bed.
Pixar, on the other hand, doesn't matter where they are shown, most people around the world have the ability to connect with them, and not be left in the dust for what the heck is going on.
Most anime I liked doesnt involve swords:| Also I didnt say cars was bad, I thought it was alright. I liked how they got George Carlin to do a voice of a car since I am a big fan of his. R rated doesnt mean having heads blown off or guts splattering everywhere, it might have some violence sure but it doesnt need to be that much. I would just really like to see Pixar use the great animation skills and apply it to a more mature storyline.
You get what I mean about people with swords. Most of the people outside the Japanese culture who enjoy anime are the ones who devote their time and money to actually learn a thing or two.. And that's only a minority.
And as for R-rated? What exactly did you want then? Shall I just say it's a wonder that Pixar can make an amazing film that literally anyone can enjoy that doesn't include the following: Violence, Language, Sexuality, Nudity, Crude humor, blood/gore, scary images, drug references, Or anything else that makes an R-rated movie? And those are all up to R-rated standards, so don't say Pixar has some violence in their movies.
Pixar are the masters of what they do, and they do it without needing any of the [Insert criteria here] that you want in a movie for it to be R-rated.
I just want them to experiment and take 3D animation somewhere interesting.
And you leave it up to Pixar because you know they're the ONLY ones who can do it right if they did? Hah, realllyyyyy, no other company can pull off your fantasy because you think Pixar is the best?
Don't say "Don't fill words into my mouth", because I just said it for you. But that's seriously how I see it now.
Forget Dreamworks, or Fox, or Sony Pictures - Pixar tops them all.
Pixar makes the most money, if they can profit off a more mature 3D animated film then others will try new things too.
There have been mature animated films in the past. Why don't people follow them then? Why isn't Pixar? I don't think many have been a success. The money is where everyone can see the film, and when Pixar slaps an R-rated film, that only shuts door on huge demographics, making the company go downhill.
That.. Might be a bad idea.
[QUOTE="swamprat_basic"]Pixar's success has nothing to do with its groundbreaking animation.
Pixar's success is due to the fact that their films tell better stories than everybody else.
No, they are not overrated, because they continue to tell better stories than everybody else, and as seen through Finding Nemo, Ratatouille, and Wall-E their storytelling techniqes are constantly evolving.
Lockedge
Storytelling techniques evolving? And you just listed Finding Nemo? Maybe a de-evolution.
They've perfected the children's monster/animal searching for lost friend/human/animal storyline with Toy Story, Toy Story 2, Monsters Inc and Finding Nemo. They didn't have to make 4 of the same movies, but they did. I agree Ratatouille was a positive step in their evolution in storytelling, and Wall-E was pretty decent even if the storyline has been done to death(outside the 3D animated inner sanctum, but at least they're touching on stereotypes outside 3D animation).
They don't tell better stories. They're simply more efficient in selecting accessible and marketable stories.
You clearly need to looker deeper into Pixar's techniques than general concepts like "children's monster/animal searching for lost friend/human/animal storylines." That describes virtually every single animated film produced in the United States.
What about Wall-E's storyline was done to death? The romance angle? That's hardly what makes Wall-E a success.
Finding Nemo was one of the first computer animated films to treat the medium as an artform. It went far beyond the "cute characters in funny situations" of virtually every other animated film of the time. Finding Nemo had some of the best character arcs in animation history, and its use of sound and color is still unmatched in animation.
Exactly. Everyone will see a Pixar movie if they put standard Disney dollar marketing into it. There's an open door waiting for them to step through, but they're just walking through the other already visited doors.
I just have a problem seeing Pixar winning these Animated Film oscars when I can't begin to compare them to the Best Film oscars each year. It's never even close. I'm not gong to ask Pixar to do one of those, but if they could just step into new territory away from their safety net..
Lockedge
I have a question, not really directed at you in particular, but what other film companies have excelled in one area of movies(comedy, drama, etc.) and has able to change their direction and start creating excellent films that are out of their comfort area?
[QUOTE="Lockedge"]Exactly. Everyone will see a Pixar movie if they put standard Disney dollar marketing into it. There's an open door waiting for them to step through, but they're just walking through the other already visited doors.
I just have a problem seeing Pixar winning these Animated Film oscars when I can't begin to compare them to the Best Film oscars each year. It's never even close. I'm not gong to ask Pixar to do one of those, but if they could just step into new territory away from their safety net..
ice144
I have a question, not really directed at you in particular, but what other film companies have excelled in one area of movies(comedy, drama, etc.) and has able to change their direction and start creating excellent films that are out of their comfort area?
Disney. Which is why I'm so frustrated with the whole Disney/Pixar scenario. Disney used to be so progressive. A return to form would be HUGE. Instead, they just milk their cash cows and "remastered releases".
[QUOTE="ice144"][QUOTE="Lockedge"]Exactly. Everyone will see a Pixar movie if they put standard Disney dollar marketing into it. There's an open door waiting for them to step through, but they're just walking through the other already visited doors.
I just have a problem seeing Pixar winning these Animated Film oscars when I can't begin to compare them to the Best Film oscars each year. It's never even close. I'm not gong to ask Pixar to do one of those, but if they could just step into new territory away from their safety net..
Lockedge
I have a question, not really directed at you in particular, but what other film companies have excelled in one area of movies(comedy, drama, etc.) and has able to change their direction and start creating excellent films that are out of their comfort area?
Disney. Which is why I'm so frustrated with the whole Disney/Pixar scenario. Disney used to be so progressive. A return to form would be HUGE. Instead, they just milk their cash cows and "remastered releases".
I'm confused by what you mean by comfort zone. After going over the films that Disney have made(not published) on wikipedia, I see nothing but your average PG kid flicks, which isnt really different from Pixar if you compare the two(disney, just like pixar, has never released a movie or PG).
EDIT: Disregard this, didnt take into account their alt-companies.
Nobody follows the other films because the others dont get marketed much at all, Pixar makes millions while the others who actually try to experiment make pretty much nothing. I'm not saying pixar should go straight to R, but they should maybe slowly get more and more mature. Maybe do a Pg 13 film then go to R. If its marketed enough people will fall for it.
Film-Guy
Ok listen, I'm not saying Pixar can't have a mature film - but releasing one under the Pixar name would only be a bad move for the company; and ultimately, result in a downfall for Pixar.
Do you know what Disney does? They release most of their PG-13 and R-rated films (YES, Disney makes these films) under the Touchstone Pictures name. Touchstone Pictures is Disney-owned, and that's their alternative for releasing mature content without directly having Disney in its name.
Why? If Disney released Bad Santa under the Walt Disney name, that would only be bad recognition for the Family-oriented branch of the company.
Why I bring this up, maybe in the future, part of the Pixar company can break up into a new branch, making the movies that you want under the Touchstone name without tarnishing the Pixar name.
[QUOTE="Lockedge"][QUOTE="swamprat_basic"]Pixar's success has nothing to do with its groundbreaking animation.
Pixar's success is due to the fact that their films tell better stories than everybody else.
No, they are not overrated, because they continue to tell better stories than everybody else, and as seen through Finding Nemo, Ratatouille, and Wall-E their storytelling techniqes are constantly evolving.
swamprat_basic
Storytelling techniques evolving? And you just listed Finding Nemo? Maybe a de-evolution.
They've perfected the children's monster/animal searching for lost friend/human/animal storyline with Toy Story, Toy Story 2, Monsters Inc and Finding Nemo. They didn't have to make 4 of the same movies, but they did. I agree Ratatouille was a positive step in their evolution in storytelling, and Wall-E was pretty decent even if the storyline has been done to death(outside the 3D animated inner sanctum, but at least they're touching on stereotypes outside 3D animation).
They don't tell better stories. They're simply more efficient in selecting accessible and marketable stories.
You clearly need to looker deeper into Pixar's techniques than general concepts like "children's monster/animal searching for lost friend/human/animal storylines." That describes virtually every single animated film produced in the United States.
What about Wall-E's storyline was done to death? The romance angle? That's hardly what makes Wall-E a success.
Finding Nemo was one of the first computer animated films to treat the medium as an artform. It went far beyond the "cute characters in funny situations" of virtually every other animated film of the time. Finding Nemo had some of the best character arcs in animation history, and its use of sound and color is still unmatched in animation.
Take away the fact that Wall-E is about robots, and that storyline has been done to death. I didn't mind Wall_E because *gasp* they actually developed characters well in it. The animation was excellent as always and the art direction was as well.
Maybe you're just not seeing Pixar's movies from my perspective. Any movie pixar has that doesn't evolve...doesn't change direction...I see as a failure. Think of it like all those different series of Power Rangers. Yeah, there's different stories, and different things happening, but it;s all basically the same idea. It's not how they take the generic story and characters and build on them that annoys me. I commend them for trying to bring life to a long-deceased corpse.
You only need to look back to Disney's library of animated films to see how much variety there can be even in early animation. Are there a lot of "fetch quest" movies in Disney's catalogue? Of course! How else would they make money? Pixar has not made movies that transcend genres, or at least they haven't successfully done it. Ratatouille was a small step in that direction as was The Incredibles.
Pixar has traits found in all of their movies. You can see it in how their characters react, how their characters move, how their characters' faces change. I get it. They make comedies. Gotcha. They also know how to develop characters and stories for their comedies that will please audiences. That doesn't mean they're good. Last time I checked, I didn't laugh once during "Home on the Range", yet all it lacks is the Pixar 'touch'. That touch is in the animating. The facial and body expressions. The whole LOOK.
I can't imagine how someone could attest that Finding Nemo had a good character arc. I just can't comprehend that, let alone one that's among the best in animated film history. I'll agree in sound and colour. That's Pixar's bread and butter. What they're good at.
[QUOTE="swamprat_basic"][QUOTE="Lockedge"][QUOTE="swamprat_basic"]Pixar's success has nothing to do with its groundbreaking animation.
Pixar's success is due to the fact that their films tell better stories than everybody else.
No, they are not overrated, because they continue to tell better stories than everybody else, and as seen through Finding Nemo, Ratatouille, and Wall-E their storytelling techniqes are constantly evolving.
Lockedge
Storytelling techniques evolving? And you just listed Finding Nemo? Maybe a de-evolution.
They've perfected the children's monster/animal searching for lost friend/human/animal storyline with Toy Story, Toy Story 2, Monsters Inc and Finding Nemo. They didn't have to make 4 of the same movies, but they did. I agree Ratatouille was a positive step in their evolution in storytelling, and Wall-E was pretty decent even if the storyline has been done to death(outside the 3D animated inner sanctum, but at least they're touching on stereotypes outside 3D animation).
They don't tell better stories. They're simply more efficient in selecting accessible and marketable stories.
You clearly need to looker deeper into Pixar's techniques than general concepts like "children's monster/animal searching for lost friend/human/animal storylines." That describes virtually every single animated film produced in the United States.
What about Wall-E's storyline was done to death? The romance angle? That's hardly what makes Wall-E a success.
Finding Nemo was one of the first computer animated films to treat the medium as an artform. It went far beyond the "cute characters in funny situations" of virtually every other animated film of the time. Finding Nemo had some of the best character arcs in animation history, and its use of sound and color is still unmatched in animation.
Take away the fact that Wall-E is about robots, and that storyline has been done to death. I didn't mind Wall_E because *gasp* they actually developed characters well in it. The animation was excellent as always and the art direction was as well.
Maybe you're just not seeing Pixar's movies from my perspective. Any movie pixar has that doesn't evolve...doesn't change direction...I see as a failure. Think of it like all those different series of Power Rangers. Yeah, there's different stories, and different things happening, but it;s all basically the same idea. It's not how they take the generic story and characters and build on them that annoys me. I commend them for trying to bring life to a long-deceased corpse.
You only need to look back to Disney's library of animated films to see how much variety there can be even in early animation. Are there a lot of "fetch quest" movies in Disney's catalogue? Of course! How else would they make money? Pixar has not made movies that transcend genres, or at least they haven't successfully done it. Ratatouille was a small step in that direction as was The Incredibles.
Pixar has traits found in all of their movies. You can see it in how their characters react, how their characters move, how their characters' faces change. I get it. They make comedies. Gotcha. They also know how to develop characters and stories for their comedies that will please audiences. That doesn't mean they're good. Last time I checked, I didn't laugh once during "Home on the Range", yet all it lacks is the Pixar 'touch'. That touch is in the animating. The facial and body expressions. The whole LOOK.
I can't imagine how someone could attest that Finding Nemo had a good character arc. I just can't comprehend that, let alone one that's among the best in animated film history. I'll agree in sound and colour. That's Pixar's bread and butter. What they're good at.
I'd like to hear what you think goes into making a good character arc.
[QUOTE="Lockedge"][QUOTE="swamprat_basic"][QUOTE="Lockedge"][QUOTE="swamprat_basic"]Pixar's success has nothing to do with its groundbreaking animation.
Pixar's success is due to the fact that their films tell better stories than everybody else.
No, they are not overrated, because they continue to tell better stories than everybody else, and as seen through Finding Nemo, Ratatouille, and Wall-E their storytelling techniqes are constantly evolving.
swamprat_basic
Storytelling techniques evolving? And you just listed Finding Nemo? Maybe a de-evolution.
They've perfected the children's monster/animal searching for lost friend/human/animal storyline with Toy Story, Toy Story 2, Monsters Inc and Finding Nemo. They didn't have to make 4 of the same movies, but they did. I agree Ratatouille was a positive step in their evolution in storytelling, and Wall-E was pretty decent even if the storyline has been done to death(outside the 3D animated inner sanctum, but at least they're touching on stereotypes outside 3D animation).
They don't tell better stories. They're simply more efficient in selecting accessible and marketable stories.
You clearly need to looker deeper into Pixar's techniques than general concepts like "children's monster/animal searching for lost friend/human/animal storylines." That describes virtually every single animated film produced in the United States.
What about Wall-E's storyline was done to death? The romance angle? That's hardly what makes Wall-E a success.
Finding Nemo was one of the first computer animated films to treat the medium as an artform. It went far beyond the "cute characters in funny situations" of virtually every other animated film of the time. Finding Nemo had some of the best character arcs in animation history, and its use of sound and color is still unmatched in animation.
Take away the fact that Wall-E is about robots, and that storyline has been done to death. I didn't mind Wall_E because *gasp* they actually developed characters well in it. The animation was excellent as always and the art direction was as well.
Maybe you're just not seeing Pixar's movies from my perspective. Any movie pixar has that doesn't evolve...doesn't change direction...I see as a failure. Think of it like all those different series of Power Rangers. Yeah, there's different stories, and different things happening, but it;s all basically the same idea. It's not how they take the generic story and characters and build on them that annoys me. I commend them for trying to bring life to a long-deceased corpse.
You only need to look back to Disney's library of animated films to see how much variety there can be even in early animation. Are there a lot of "fetch quest" movies in Disney's catalogue? Of course! How else would they make money? Pixar has not made movies that transcend genres, or at least they haven't successfully done it. Ratatouille was a small step in that direction as was The Incredibles.
Pixar has traits found in all of their movies. You can see it in how their characters react, how their characters move, how their characters' faces change. I get it. They make comedies. Gotcha. They also know how to develop characters and stories for their comedies that will please audiences. That doesn't mean they're good. Last time I checked, I didn't laugh once during "Home on the Range", yet all it lacks is the Pixar 'touch'. That touch is in the animating. The facial and body expressions. The whole LOOK.
I can't imagine how someone could attest that Finding Nemo had a good character arc. I just can't comprehend that, let alone one that's among the best in animated film history. I'll agree in sound and colour. That's Pixar's bread and butter. What they're good at.
I'd like to hear what you think goes into making a good character arc.
Watch a few Miyazaki films like Princess Mononoke or some Satoshi Kon films, they do characters and character arc much better than pixar. In Pixar films the world is usually very black and white, in most miyazaki films everyone is grey pretty much. Much more interesting to watch imo.
[QUOTE="Lockedge"][QUOTE="ice144"][QUOTE="Lockedge"]Exactly. Everyone will see a Pixar movie if they put standard Disney dollar marketing into it. There's an open door waiting for them to step through, but they're just walking through the other already visited doors.
I just have a problem seeing Pixar winning these Animated Film oscars when I can't begin to compare them to the Best Film oscars each year. It's never even close. I'm not gong to ask Pixar to do one of those, but if they could just step into new territory away from their safety net..
ice144
I have a question, not really directed at you in particular, but what other film companies have excelled in one area of movies(comedy, drama, etc.) and has able to change their direction and start creating excellent films that are out of their comfort area?
Disney. Which is why I'm so frustrated with the whole Disney/Pixar scenario. Disney used to be so progressive. A return to form would be HUGE. Instead, they just milk their cash cows and "remastered releases".
I'm confused by what you mean by comfort zone. After going over the films that Disney have made(not published) on wikipedia, I see nothing but your average PG kid flicks, which isnt really different from Pixar if you compare the two(disney, just like pixar, has never released a movie or PG).
I probably could have been a bit clearer. It's all about focus and atmosphere. If a film company can master those, then they can take an average movie and add another element to it. Pixar has only added one element ever to the generic animated comedy: friendship/family sympathy. Ratatouille was a step towards other elements but it never quite got much of anywhere(even if it IS an excellent film. Kudos to Pixar on that one). Wall-E kind of gets marks for the way it implemented the romance and the JOURNEY of the romance/connection. Unfortunately it wasn't really successful...more like a lukewarm effort.
Check out Dumbo, The Rescuers, Beauty & The Beast, Lion King, 101 Dalmations, Fantasia, Lady & The Tramp, The Jungle Book, The Fox & The Hound, even The Little Mermaid. They all have one thing in common: they appeal to the younger market. There's nothing wrong with that. Pirates of the Caribbean was as well, and it ventured through plenty of atmosphere. Yet, with Pixar's films, I onlyfeel a shiver of shift in their resolve. They just hold this same, static feel to their movies. They feel the same. I don't know how else to put it. Disney, way back when, put serious thought into their movies and evoking emotions and even thought on some fronts. Pixar evokes laughter and empathy almost always.
I mean, I started watching Disney movies...at least ones not called Lion King or Beauty & the Beast, when I was 19 and in animation school. They were my year 1 curriculum for one class, basically, among some other reality based gems like City of the Lost Children and Once Upon a Time in the West. Disney made engaging stories that had depth. Pixar makes ones with a lot of face value and nothing to go back to because there's nothing to feel out the second time around after the jokes are stale and it's 100% predictable.
That's what Pixar is missing. Once they conquer that front, it's only a matter of time before they keep evolving and broaden their horizons, and thus(because of their immense influence in the industry) broaden 3D animatioon's horizons...where we could eventually a few decades down the road see a 3D animated film just as impacting as Blade Runner.
[QUOTE="ice144"][QUOTE="Lockedge"][QUOTE="ice144"][QUOTE="Lockedge"]Exactly. Everyone will see a Pixar movie if they put standard Disney dollar marketing into it. There's an open door waiting for them to step through, but they're just walking through the other already visited doors.
I just have a problem seeing Pixar winning these Animated Film oscars when I can't begin to compare them to the Best Film oscars each year. It's never even close. I'm not gong to ask Pixar to do one of those, but if they could just step into new territory away from their safety net..
Lockedge
I have a question, not really directed at you in particular, but what other film companies have excelled in one area of movies(comedy, drama, etc.) and has able to change their direction and start creating excellent films that are out of their comfort area?
Disney. Which is why I'm so frustrated with the whole Disney/Pixar scenario. Disney used to be so progressive. A return to form would be HUGE. Instead, they just milk their cash cows and "remastered releases".
I'm confused by what you mean by comfort zone. After going over the films that Disney have made(not published) on wikipedia, I see nothing but your average PG kid flicks, which isnt really different from Pixar if you compare the two(disney, just like pixar, has never released a movie or PG).
I probably could have been a bit clearer. It's all about focus and atmosphere. If a film company can master those, then they can take an average movie and add another element to it. Pixar has only added one element ever to the generic animated comedy: friendship/family sympathy. Ratatouille was a step towards other elements but it never quite got much of anywhere(even if it IS an excellent film. Kudos to Pixar on that one). Wall-E kind of gets marks for the way it implemented the romance and the JOURNEY of the romance/connection. Unfortunately it wasn't really successful...more like a lukewarm effort.
Check out Dumbo, The Rescuers, Beauty & The Beast, Lion King, 101 Dalmations, Fantasia, Lady & The Tramp, The Jungle Book, The Fox & The Hound, even The Little Mermaid. They all have one thing in common: they appeal to the younger market. There's nothing wrong with that. Pirates of the Caribbean was as well, and it ventured through plenty of atmosphere. Yet, with Pixar's films, I onlyfeel a shiver of shift in their resolve. They just hold this same, static feel to their movies. They feel the same. I don't know how else to put it. Disney, way back when, put serious thought into their movies and evoking emotions and even thought on some fronts. Pixar evokes laughter and empathy almost always.
I mean, I started watching Disney movies...at least ones not called Lion King or Beauty & the Beast, when I was 19 and in animation school. They were my year 1 curriculum for one class, basically, among some other reality based gems like City of the Lost Children and Once Upon a Time in the West. Disney made engaging stories that had depth. Pixar makes ones with a lot of face value and nothing to go back to because there's nothing to feel out the second time around after the jokes are stale and it's 100% predictable.
That's what Pixar is missing. Once they conquer that front, it's only a matter of time before they keep evolving and broaden their horizons, and thus(because of their immense influence in the industry) broaden 3D animatioon's horizons...where we could eventually a few decades down the road see a 3D animated film just as impacting as Blade Runner.
The fox and hound made me cry when I first saw it:( Disneys old films used to be great, heck I even kinda liked Atlantis the lost empire for some reason.
[QUOTE="swamprat_basic"][QUOTE="Lockedge"][QUOTE="swamprat_basic"][QUOTE="Lockedge"][QUOTE="swamprat_basic"]Pixar's success has nothing to do with its groundbreaking animation.
Pixar's success is due to the fact that their films tell better stories than everybody else.
No, they are not overrated, because they continue to tell better stories than everybody else, and as seen through Finding Nemo, Ratatouille, and Wall-E their storytelling techniqes are constantly evolving.
Film-Guy
Storytelling techniques evolving? And you just listed Finding Nemo? Maybe a de-evolution.
They've perfected the children's monster/animal searching for lost friend/human/animal storyline with Toy Story, Toy Story 2, Monsters Inc and Finding Nemo. They didn't have to make 4 of the same movies, but they did. I agree Ratatouille was a positive step in their evolution in storytelling, and Wall-E was pretty decent even if the storyline has been done to death(outside the 3D animated inner sanctum, but at least they're touching on stereotypes outside 3D animation).
They don't tell better stories. They're simply more efficient in selecting accessible and marketable stories.
You clearly need to looker deeper into Pixar's techniques than general concepts like "children's monster/animal searching for lost friend/human/animal storylines." That describes virtually every single animated film produced in the United States.
What about Wall-E's storyline was done to death? The romance angle? That's hardly what makes Wall-E a success.
Finding Nemo was one of the first computer animated films to treat the medium as an artform. It went far beyond the "cute characters in funny situations" of virtually every other animated film of the time. Finding Nemo had some of the best character arcs in animation history, and its use of sound and color is still unmatched in animation.
Take away the fact that Wall-E is about robots, and that storyline has been done to death. I didn't mind Wall_E because *gasp* they actually developed characters well in it. The animation was excellent as always and the art direction was as well.
Maybe you're just not seeing Pixar's movies from my perspective. Any movie pixar has that doesn't evolve...doesn't change direction...I see as a failure. Think of it like all those different series of Power Rangers. Yeah, there's different stories, and different things happening, but it;s all basically the same idea. It's not how they take the generic story and characters and build on them that annoys me. I commend them for trying to bring life to a long-deceased corpse.
You only need to look back to Disney's library of animated films to see how much variety there can be even in early animation. Are there a lot of "fetch quest" movies in Disney's catalogue? Of course! How else would they make money? Pixar has not made movies that transcend genres, or at least they haven't successfully done it. Ratatouille was a small step in that direction as was The Incredibles.
Pixar has traits found in all of their movies. You can see it in how their characters react, how their characters move, how their characters' faces change. I get it. They make comedies. Gotcha. They also know how to develop characters and stories for their comedies that will please audiences. That doesn't mean they're good. Last time I checked, I didn't laugh once during "Home on the Range", yet all it lacks is the Pixar 'touch'. That touch is in the animating. The facial and body expressions. The whole LOOK.
I can't imagine how someone could attest that Finding Nemo had a good character arc. I just can't comprehend that, let alone one that's among the best in animated film history. I'll agree in sound and colour. That's Pixar's bread and butter. What they're good at.
I'd like to hear what you think goes into making a good character arc.
Watch a few Miyazaki films like Princess Mononoke or some Satoshi Kon films, they do characters and character arc much better than pixar. In Pixar films the world is usually very black and white, in most miyazaki films everyone is grey pretty much. Much more interesting to watch imo.
Well, I have seen the majority of Miyazaki's films. Princess Mononoke is good film, but if you were going to choose a Miyazaki film as an example of a unique character plot, you probably should have chosen something different. A$h!taka's arc is pretty much a step-by-step copy of Joseph Campbell's heroic journey, which has been used in countless stories before it, countless animated films I might add. That doesn't make it bad, but it is hardly original.
Satoshi Kon does not make family films. His films might as well be live-action; he's just chosen animation as his medium. You probably prefer his stories, because they are "darker" and more "realistic," but honestly, that doesn't make them better, just different.
Pixar makes family films. If you want something different, watch something different.
I'm not sure what you are complaining about though, as judging from Pixar's last couple films, they seem to be going in a more adult direction, but if you expect them to go more adult than Ratatouille and Wall-E, you have unrealistic expectations of the kinds of films Pixar is dedicated to making.
[QUOTE="barcx17"]No they're not overrated. Toy Story and Finding Nemo are my favorite pixar films, and i'll agree with everyone that Cars was meh... good but not great. Wall-E and Ratatouille were awesome thoughFilm-Guy
I liked Ratatouille alot visually, but for some reason I could never get into the story much. I found it kinda bland and uninteresting.
I understand what you meant, at first i thought i was gonna feel that way, but i guess it was just his quest to follow his dream of becoming a chef that interested me. I think a few might disagree with me, but i felt the same way with Monster's Inc. Yes it was visually amazing, but i couldnt get into the story that much at first.
Toys Story, Monsters Inc are my favourites.
But the more recent ones like Nemo, The incredibles are just crap.
[QUOTE="Film-Guy"][QUOTE="barcx17"]No they're not overrated. Toy Story and Finding Nemo are my favorite pixar films, and i'll agree with everyone that Cars was meh... good but not great. Wall-E and Ratatouille were awesome thoughbarcx17
I liked Ratatouille alot visually, but for some reason I could never get into the story much. I found it kinda bland and uninteresting.
I understand what you meant, at first i thought i was gonna feel that way, but i guess it was just his quest to follow his dream of becoming a chef that interested me. I think a few might disagree with me, but i felt the same way with Monster's Inc. Yes it was visually amazing, but i couldnt get into the story that much at first.
I actually really liked Monsters Inc, more than Ratatouille probably. I found the story in Monsters Inc very charming while Rataouille just felt very dull, plus the french accents sounded really cheesy.
I somehow agree with you. Iv'e recently seen a new movie coming out i'm not sure if it is from pixar but it is animated it is about chiwawas... It is totally lame... I think that it is getting worst then ever... All they said in the trailer is chiwawas and it is a world of chiwawas and really it is just annoying!!
I somehow agree with you. Iv'e recently seen a new movie coming out i'm not sure if it is from pixar but it is animated it is about chiwawas... It is totally lame... I think that it is getting worst then ever... All they said in the trailer is chiwawas and it is a world of chiwawas and really it is just annoying!!
jackpotco
That is disney, they are really getting desperate for ideas.
[QUOTE="jackpotco"]I somehow agree with you. Iv'e recently seen a new movie coming out i'm not sure if it is from pixar but it is animated it is about chiwawas... It is totally lame... I think that it is getting worst then ever... All they said in the trailer is chiwawas and it is a world of chiwawas and really it is just annoying!!
Film-Guy
That is disney, they are really getting desperate for ideas.
yeah ok... :P i just think that movies like that kind are a bit exageratted... also wall e looks abit all over the place ... but it is just my opinion though...
The only good ones are Toy Story 1 and 2, and Monsters, Inc, and even those aren't all that great (the first Toy Story is probably a cIassic). Finding Nemo is just annoying, Incredibles was lame, Cars sucks, and Wall-E looks equally bad. Don't tell me I should go see it and find out for myself, because I'm not going to see a movie by a company that gnerally produces movies that I don't like, or at best, can put up with. I'm not saying the movies are necessarily bad as films, but they don't appeal to me.
[QUOTE="barcx17"][QUOTE="Film-Guy"][QUOTE="barcx17"]No they're not overrated. Toy Story and Finding Nemo are my favorite pixar films, and i'll agree with everyone that Cars was meh... good but not great. Wall-E and Ratatouille were awesome thoughFilm-Guy
I liked Ratatouille alot visually, but for some reason I could never get into the story much. I found it kinda bland and uninteresting.
I understand what you meant, at first i thought i was gonna feel that way, but i guess it was just his quest to follow his dream of becoming a chef that interested me. I think a few might disagree with me, but i felt the same way with Monster's Inc. Yes it was visually amazing, but i couldnt get into the story that much at first.
I actually really liked Monsters Inc, more than Ratatouille probably. I found the story in Monsters Inc very charming while Rataouille just felt very dull, plus the french accents sounded really cheesy.
Monsters Inc. is probably one of my favorite Pixar films.
Monsters Inc. was directed by Pete Docter, and I'm so excited that the next Pixar film is being directed by him again. The next film is called "Up".
I went to this year's Comic-Con, and got to see Pete Docter and see the first ever sneaks for the next film. It was probably 15 minutes of the actual movie, and I'm sold already. The clips got me very excited, and it looked beautiful.
[QUOTE="barcx17"][QUOTE="Film-Guy"][QUOTE="barcx17"]No they're not overrated. Toy Story and Finding Nemo are my favorite pixar films, and i'll agree with everyone that Cars was meh... good but not great. Wall-E and Ratatouille were awesome thoughFilm-Guy
I liked Ratatouille alot visually, but for some reason I could never get into the story much. I found it kinda bland and uninteresting.
I understand what you meant, at first i thought i was gonna feel that way, but i guess it was just his quest to follow his dream of becoming a chef that interested me. I think a few might disagree with me, but i felt the same way with Monster's Inc. Yes it was visually amazing, but i couldnt get into the story that much at first.
I actually really liked Monsters Inc, more than Ratatouille probably. I found the story in Monsters Inc very charming while Rataouille just felt very dull, plus the french accents sounded really cheesy.
I found nothing wrong with the french accents. And yes Monsters Inc. was charming, i said that i felt that way in the beginning but then i gave it another shot and now its in my top 5 Pixar films, which are 1) Toy Story; 2) Finding Nemo; 3) Toy Story 2; 4) Wall-E; and 5) Monster's Inc.
[QUOTE="Film-Guy"][QUOTE="barcx17"][QUOTE="Film-Guy"][QUOTE="barcx17"]No they're not overrated. Toy Story and Finding Nemo are my favorite pixar films, and i'll agree with everyone that Cars was meh... good but not great. Wall-E and Ratatouille were awesome thoughNerd_Man
I liked Ratatouille alot visually, but for some reason I could never get into the story much. I found it kinda bland and uninteresting.
I understand what you meant, at first i thought i was gonna feel that way, but i guess it was just his quest to follow his dream of becoming a chef that interested me. I think a few might disagree with me, but i felt the same way with Monster's Inc. Yes it was visually amazing, but i couldnt get into the story that much at first.
I actually really liked Monsters Inc, more than Ratatouille probably. I found the story in Monsters Inc very charming while Rataouille just felt very dull, plus the french accents sounded really cheesy.
Monsters Inc. is probably one of my favorite Pixar films.
Monsters Inc. was directed by Pete Docter, and I'm so excited that the next Pixar film is being directed by him again. The next film is called "Up".
I went to this year's Comic-Con, and got to see Pete Docter and see the first ever sneaks for the next film. It was probably 15 minutes of the actual movie, and I'm sold already. The clips got me very excited, and it looked beautiful.
From what I have heard about the new pixar movie it sounds pretty interesting. Something about a guy who makes his house fly or something right?
I think Pixar is brilliant. I have yet to see a Pixar movie that I haven't liked (granted I have to see Cars, Ratatouille, and Wall-E). It is amazing that a company can keep making great movie after great movie.
Sure the stories aren't insanely complex but they don't need to be. The characters are always phenominal and the movies do a good job of sucking you right in.
If I want to see some crazy complex storylines then I will turn to some anime. In fact I really want to watch the Deathnote series after seeing one of the episodes. That show just seems FANTASTIC!
[QUOTE="Film-Guy"]Also who did The Iron Giant? For whatever reason I loved that movie, even though it was a kids film it was surprisingly mature and sad near the end. Ilived
That wasn't even Disney.
Now I remember, Brad Bird directed it. He also did the incredibles and Ratatouille, though the iron giant is more awesome than both of those imo.
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