Are some conservative Christians hypocritical?

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deactivated-5a79221380856

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#1 deactivated-5a79221380856
Member since 2007 • 13125 Posts

There are many things that some conservative Christians do that are aggravating to me and come across as very hypocritical.

Their claim that liberalism is a religion

Conservative Christians believe in a religion. Some of them claim that liberalism is a religion, whether it be climate change, evolution, secularism, socialism, and atheism. Let's not forget that some of these characteristics do not correspond nicely to politics. Climate change and evolution have more to do with science, even if you don't think they're scientifically supported. There are conservatives who believe in evolution, like Charles Krauthammer and there are conservatives who believe in climate change, like Newt Gingrich. There are also conservatives who hold different religious beliefs than their conservative Christian counterparts. Of course, this goes without saying though, since there is more than one type of conservative. There's the social conservative, the paleoconservative, the fiscal conservative, and arguably, the libertarian. However, some conservative Christians like to group these together, add Christianity, to get the definition of a true conservative and they may have a valid point.

Where they go off the line is claiming that liberalism and its alleged tenets is a religion. If you don't believe in climate change and evolution, call it unsettled science, but don't refer to it as a religion. There are many people who believe in global warming for example, but have different opinions as to what the appropriate solution is to combat it. There are also many people who believe in some tenets of evolution, but do not entirely agree with evolutionists across the board, such as the theory that birds evolved from dinosaurs or the theory of punctuated equilibrium. Science is not formally determined by consensus, too, unlike a religion, which has been determined by a group of people creating their own primitive philosophy as to how we got here and why we are here. Even if every scientist believed in climate change or evolution universally, it wouldn't make it so. Only evidence that supports hypotheses can make it a theory and only further evidence can make a theory reality.

Secularism is the rejection of using religion as a guide for reason. Therefore, it is simply not a religion. Atheism is the belief that there is no god. Nothing else. Many atheists tend to be naturalists, but you'd be surprised to find a wide variety of both philosophical and political beliefs among atheists. Of course, generalizing can be expected as always, but there's no book or list of facts that atheists subscribe to like there is in many religions. Nor can you make the argument that atheists are fundamentalists, since there is only fundamental attribute to atheism, and that is there is no god.

Their opposition to freedom of religion

Conservative Christians are very religious, yet they don't support the freedom of religion. Why? Why are there states that block nontheists from running for governor? Why are the federally funded Boys Scouts of America allowed to prohibit nontheists and queers from holding membership? Why do they want publicly funded schools to lead prayers in class? Why do they want to use taxpayer's money to put up the Ten Commandments in front of a courthouse? Why do they want their God in the Pledge of Allegiance and as the official motto on our currency, but they would reject the idea if other gods were promoted to such status? Well, you may point out that earlier I said that atheism isn't a religion and the freedom of religion doesn't guarantee the freedom of irreligion, but if that were the case then freedom of speech wouldn't guarantee the freedom of silence. You may also point out that the United States was founded by mostly Christians. However, the country was also founded by white men, but that didn't stop men and women of all races from eventually acquiring rights.

Some conservative Christians oppose religion so much that they go so far as to paint their own beliefs as not a religion, but as a personal relationship with God. This, ironically, allows them to insert religion in a secular context, but don't use the word "secular", because they hate it, and remember that they see secularism as a religion. With it in a secular context, they can say that their God has nothing to do with religion and that it should be inserted into every piece of legislature and into every speech, even if the writer or the speaker doesn't believe in their God.

Of course, there's the more obvious point: the belief that Christianity is true as is the sky is blue. While I do maintain that there are some true attributes of Christianity that can be promoted through government, such as the commandment, "Thou shalt not murder" and, "Thou shalt not steal", we don't have to do this by invoking the Bible. Imagine how many religions and philosophies we'd have to invoke if we advocated the Golden Rule! We should, though, make it apparent that anyone can believe and abide in these simple laws. Whether or not Christianity is entirely true isn't up for debate, but if you want to believe it's true, under a government that respects the freedom of religion, that's possible. If Christianity is completely true, then I'd have no problem killing nonbelievers, witches, homosexual men, children who curse their parents, and unborn children of adulteresses, so as long as we have God in our Pledge of Allegiance and in our official motto. However, you have the capacity of reason. You can make that judgement yourself. That's the beauty of freedom of religion.

Now, I do think that when religion is suppressed by the government, it's going too far. However, neither can government issue religion. The only thing that government can issue is our natural rights. I should also note that liberals abuse freedom of religion to mean that you can't practice a religion publicly, especially Christianity and they possess some weird double standard that Christians can't practice what Muslims can, but this is topic is about conservative Christians. Maybe I'll make a topic later what ticks me off about liberals.

Their opposition to secularism

Secularism is the ability to reason without the use of religion. Religion is, strictly speaking, authoritative in that a god or a scripture is considered holy and therefore their word is true just because of their authority. This is argument from authority, which is a logical fallacy. If someone can prove something about a religion without the use of religion, then they win the argument. Secularism is simply the ability to reason without the use of authority. That's because reason isauthoritative.

Their support for easily accessible divorce

If the United States is going to be nation that keeps same-sex marriage illegal, let's start with improving the concept of marriage. Marriage is supposed to be a faithful relationship between two individuals that never ceases until death. Why then, is it so easy to get a divorce? A divorce is truly the worst thing you can do as a lover. Marriage is an absolute contract, not just something we temporarily feel for someone, but come time, we will have long abandoned as a result of having never truly loved the person in the first place. If divorces are so easily accessible, I actually have no problem with same-sex marriage. Why not abandon the whole concept of marriage and we can reverse the process of evolution and go back to when we weren't men, where we couldn't reason, and love was just for survival purposes?

Their support for Sarah Palin

1 Timothy 12 says, "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence." Sarah Palin is a figure that is not silent nor respects the authority that man allegedly has over her as indicated by many conservative Christians' support for a 2012 presidential run. I do support the notion that conservatives have evolved from limiting women to preordained roles; that free will should dictate what's best for a woman within reason, but the fact that some conservative Christians still maintain that they interpret the Bible as literally, when they don't is either a blunder by them, or worse: a lie.

Their political objections to evolution

I'm not going to discuss the scientific objections to evolution, because I don't want to discuss the validity of ideas, but the validity of how we discuss ideas. All too often, evolution is associated with socialism and liberalism, but is it really? I think evolution best fits in with a libertarian conservative philosophy. Conservative in that government is a social structure of which to uphold natural rights. It's new in that it's never been used by other animals, because we humans are advance enough to reason far then other species. Conservative and libertarian in that laissez-faire capitalism is essentially the economy's variation of natural selection. I say libertarian conservative, because I don't think that everything especially from a moral standpoint can be understood strictly from an evolutionary perspective, simply because humans are so unique, but I do think that evolution can help explain social structure, family structure, and morality and thus, since libertarianism allows a bit too much freedom to exercise, one could make the argument that evolution is very libertarian. They could arguably go as far as to say anarchistic, considering that every other species do not possess a government as understood by humans. Now, I can understand conservative Christians' religious objections to evolution, but why can't they be open to a loose interpretation as they are when it comes to women's rights or Mosiac Law?

I could go on about what I think are some curious attributes of some conservative Christians such as Jesus's alleged support of socialism, but I think that's open to interpretation and could really rely on whether or not you think charity should be given through the individual or through the government, or the Old Testament's disregard for unborn children, but it doesn't care much for born adults either, so I think this is a good stopping point.

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weezyfb

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#2 weezyfb
Member since 2009 • 14703 Posts
yes they are
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smc91352

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#3 smc91352
Member since 2009 • 7786 Posts
you shouldn't start a thread with an insult...
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#4 PistolGripPump
Member since 2009 • 199 Posts
you shouldn't start a thread with an insult...smc91352
It weakens the argument.
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sensfanVone

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#5 sensfanVone
Member since 2006 • 1714 Posts

Wow, way to make a ton of generalizations.

You can say a lot of these things but just because you believe them or have encountered or heard from a few who claim to be conservative christians doesn't mean you can group all of them.

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deactivated-5a79221380856

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#6 deactivated-5a79221380856
Member since 2007 • 13125 Posts
you shouldn't start a thread with an insult...smc91352
If people are insulted about my opinions regarding their beliefs, then so be it. I didn't state it as absolute truth, although I believe it as such even if if it is an opinion, so you don't have to take it that way.
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deactivated-5a79221380856

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#7 deactivated-5a79221380856
Member since 2007 • 13125 Posts

Wow, way to make a ton of generalizations.

You can say a lot of these things but just because you believe them or have encountered or heard from a few who claim to be conservative christians doesn't mean you can group all of them.

sensfanVone
Do you notice how many times I say "some conservative Christians"? Actually, I forgot to put "some" in the topic title, so I will do that now.
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RationalAtheist

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#8 RationalAtheist
Member since 2007 • 4428 Posts

I think you're right Genetic - bang on. I also note a decidedly non-biblical American nationalism associated with right-wing Christianity too.

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sensfanVone

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#9 sensfanVone
Member since 2006 • 1714 Posts

[QUOTE="sensfanVone"]

Wow, way to make a ton of generalizations.

You can say a lot of these things but just because you believe them or have encountered or heard from a few who claim to be conservative christians doesn't mean you can group all of them.

Genetic_Code

Do you notice how many times I say "some conservative Christians"? Actually, I forgot to put "some" in the topic title, so I will do that now.

Okay, in that case, I now agree with you. ;)

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deactivated-5a79221380856

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#10 deactivated-5a79221380856
Member since 2007 • 13125 Posts

I think you're right Genetic - bang on. I also note a decidedly non-biblical American nationalism associated with right-wing Christianity too.

RationalAtheist
Really? I'm surprised you agree with me especially on evolution, because I argued that evolution could be used as support for conservatism/libertarianism, but even Richard Dawkins, an advocate of universal health care and Darwinism, admits that he tries to remain politically anti-Darwinian as much as possible. I think that liberals that support evolution see evolution as how things are and see their political beliefs as how things should be. I'm going to have to disagree with them, but I don't want to discuss conservatism versus liberalism. I just want to discuss how Christianitiy has evolved into a self-contradiction between believers and belief.
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#11 smc91352
Member since 2009 • 7786 Posts
If people are insulted about my opinions regarding their beliefs, then so be it. I didn't state it as absolute truth, although I believe it as such even if if it is an opinion, so you don't have to take it that way.Genetic_Code
wow you ripped me a new one.
[QUOTE="sensfanVone"]

Wow, way to make a ton of generalizations.

You can say a lot of these things but just because you believe them or have encountered or heard from a few who claim to be conservative christians doesn't mean you can group all of them.

Genetic_Code
Do you notice how many times I say "some conservative Christians"? Actually, I forgot to put "some" in the topic title, so I will do that now.

I voted 'cause of that edit. :)
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wstfld

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#12 wstfld
Member since 2008 • 6375 Posts
I think the religion itself is ridiculous, but that doesn't matter. The fact that it has become so intertwined with American politics is scary as hell.
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deactivated-5a79221380856

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#13 deactivated-5a79221380856
Member since 2007 • 13125 Posts
wow you ripped me a new one.smc91352
I was a bit harsh, but what I say I believe is true. If I didn't believe it was true, I wouldn't be saying it. If I do insult someone... well, anyone can be insulted at anything, but if there was something that seemed like I was personally attacking conservative Christians, then just say it. In my expression of my opinion, I forgot to conclude that there are rational conservative Christians, and I have to agree with them almost half of the time because I consider myself a conservative (well, I don't have to, but I find myself agreeing with them many times). They have their interpretation of the Bible and it works for them.
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Democratik

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#14 Democratik
Member since 2009 • 662 Posts
theyre the most dangerous group in america.
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RationalAtheist

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#15 RationalAtheist
Member since 2007 • 4428 Posts

Really? I'm surprised you agree with me especially on evolution, because I argued that evolution could be used as support for conservatism/libertarianism, but even Richard Dawkins, an advocate of universal health care and Darwinism, admits that he tries to remain politically anti-Darwinian as much as possible. I think that liberals that support evolution see evolution as how things are and see their political beliefs as how things should be. I'm going to have to disagree with them, but I don't want to discuss conservatism versus liberalism. I just want to discuss how Christianitiy has evolved into a self-contradiction between believers and belief.Genetic_Code

I don't see biological and social evolution being all that similar. You can draw evolutionary comparisons with conservatism, but can also make similar ones for libertarianism and individualty too - all social orders have evolved to a degree.

That aside, I do agree - especially from what I read in some unions here, that there is an odd political tinge to their religious reflections. Most recently, an article, described as "a really good article and summary" by the poster on "100 reasons why climate change is natural and not man-made". The source was a hugely unreliable UK rag called the Daily Express (I should know - my dad worked for them). You can guess where the thread I'm talking about is, but here's a link to the Daily express article i mentioned:

http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/146138

For a start, there's a very good point by point rebuttal from the "New Scientist" magazine right after that article in its comments. The article also doesn't even have a summary, yet is still posted (seemingly unread) to stir up more ill-informed controversy. Fortunately, the community of which we speak is small and ever-decreasing.

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#16 chessmaster1989
Member since 2008 • 30203 Posts
Yes, I think you have some excellent points, Genetic.
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#17 Ace_WondersX
Member since 2003 • 4455 Posts

I hate the term "Christian Conservative", I dislike people who use religion as a cover-up for their hatred(not all conservative are like that though).

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#18 CellAnimation
Member since 2007 • 6116 Posts
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#19 leviathan91
Member since 2007 • 7763 Posts

theyre the most dangerous group in america.Democratik

Bit of an exaggeration, don't you think? ;)

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Xx_Hopeless_xX

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#20 Xx_Hopeless_xX
Member since 2009 • 16562 Posts

Well...their views on Freedom of Religion are wrong...people should be able to practice whatever they please...Secularism is dangerous...

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Teenaged

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#21 Teenaged
Member since 2007 • 31764 Posts

Well...their views on Freedom of Religion are wrong...people should be able to practice whatever they please...Secularism is dangerous...

Xx_Hopeless_xX

How so...?

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smc91352

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#22 smc91352
Member since 2009 • 7786 Posts
Secularism is dangerous...Xx_Hopeless_xX
:|
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#23 danwallacefan
Member since 2008 • 2413 Posts

[QUOTE="smc91352"]you shouldn't start a thread with an insult...Genetic_Code
If people are insulted about my opinions regarding their beliefs, then so be it. I didn't state it as absolute truth, although I believe it as such even if if it is an opinion, so you don't have to take it that way.

The way you insult people isn't the beliefs or opinions themselves you're giving, its the method of delivering them. Case in point, you started out this thread with a string of generalizations.

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Xx_Hopeless_xX

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#24 Xx_Hopeless_xX
Member since 2009 • 16562 Posts

[QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"]

Well...their views on Freedom of Religion are wrong...people should be able to practice whatever they please...Secularism is dangerous...

Teenaged

How so...?

Christ..why did i bother posting...

IMO...i find it dangerous because it is the act of moving away from religion. Religion is a means of controlling the populace as well as keeping a country unified...although arguments can be made that claim religion also starts war...though true..the factions warring are still unified through religion to fight others..

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Democratik

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#25 Democratik
Member since 2009 • 662 Posts

[QUOTE="Democratik"]theyre the most dangerous group in america.leviathan91

Bit of an exaggeration, don't you think? ;)

nope
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#26 danwallacefan
Member since 2008 • 2413 Posts

[QUOTE="leviathan91"]

[QUOTE="Democratik"]theyre the most dangerous group in america.Democratik

Bit of an exaggeration, don't you think? ;)

nope

alright. Now its time for you to unpack that statement :D

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#27 Teenaged
Member since 2007 • 31764 Posts

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"]

Well...their views on Freedom of Religion are wrong...people should be able to practice whatever they please...Secularism is dangerous...

Xx_Hopeless_xX

How so...?

Christ..why did i bother posting...

IMO...i find it dangerous because it is the act of moving away from religion. Religion is a means of controlling the populace as well as keeping a country unified...although arguments can be made that claim religion also starts war...though true..the factions warring are still unified through religion to fight others..

So its all good since the war is being carried out under.... unification?

That makes no sense at all.

Neither does the rest of the post. You present it as if secularism's main goal is to abolish religion in general. While that may be the opinion of some atheists/secularists it deffinetely doesnt describe secularism as a whole.

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#28 smc91352
Member since 2009 • 7786 Posts
danwallacefan
he said "some"... :P
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#29 _en1gma_
Member since 2004 • 14617 Posts
I'm not one to generalize...but I am definitely not a fan of them.
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Xx_Hopeless_xX

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#30 Xx_Hopeless_xX
Member since 2009 • 16562 Posts

[QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"]

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]How so...?

Teenaged

Christ..why did i bother posting...

IMO...i find it dangerous because it is the act of moving away from religion. Religion is a means of controlling the populace as well as keeping a country unified...although arguments can be made that claim religion also starts war...though true..the factions warring are still unified through religion to fight others..

So its all good since the war is being carried out under.... unification?

That makes no sense at all.

Neither does the rest of the post. You present it as if secularism's main goal is to abolish religion in general. While that may be the opinion of some atheists/secularists it deffinetely doesnt describe secularism as a whole.

Made sense to me :P...whatever...i call peace...i don't feel like debating lol..

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#31 smc91352
Member since 2009 • 7786 Posts
whatever...i call peace...i don't feel like debating lol..Xx_Hopeless_xX
aww. I haven't seen Teenaged in a debate in a long time. :cry:
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#32 Xx_Hopeless_xX
Member since 2009 • 16562 Posts

[QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"]whatever...i call peace...i don't feel like debating lol..smc91352
aww. I haven't seen Teenaged in a debate in a long time. :cry:

You debate with him then..my brain isn't functioning at the moment...:(

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#33 smc91352
Member since 2009 • 7786 Posts
You debate with him then..my brain isn't functioning at the moment...:(Xx_Hopeless_xX
:lol: I don't think I'm "on his level" and I was on his side anyway...
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Xx_Hopeless_xX

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#34 Xx_Hopeless_xX
Member since 2009 • 16562 Posts

[QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"]You debate with him then..my brain isn't functioning at the moment...:(smc91352
:lol: I don't think I'm "on his level" and I was on his side anyway...

Well..your biased then..debate about why you should be on his side...that should be interesting..

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chessmaster1989

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#35 chessmaster1989
Member since 2008 • 30203 Posts

Secularism is dangerous...

Xx_Hopeless_xX

I lol'd

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Xx_Hopeless_xX

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#36 Xx_Hopeless_xX
Member since 2009 • 16562 Posts

[QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"]

Secularism is dangerous...

chessmaster1989

I lol'd

I'm not even going to start in with this again...

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chessmaster1989

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#37 chessmaster1989
Member since 2008 • 30203 Posts

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

[QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"]

Secularism is dangerous...

Xx_Hopeless_xX

I lol'd

I'm not even going to start in with this again...

That's fine. I find your notion of using religion as a means of controlling the populace to be absolutely apalling.

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#39 battlefront23
Member since 2006 • 12625 Posts

I'm a Christian, and yet I feel completely alone in my opinions amongst most Christian circles, specifically "fundies."

I think that Jesus came here to save us from religion, and I feel like too much emphasis in the Christian church is placed on things that really don't matter.

I'm kind of a maverick so to speak.

:P

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#40 Shenmue_Jehuty
Member since 2007 • 5211 Posts

I'm sure many of them are hypocritical, but so are people who belong to every political/religious ideology. Hypocrisy is almost part of the human condition you could say.

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#41 chessmaster1989
Member since 2008 • 30203 Posts

I'm a Christian, and yet I feel completely alone in my opinions amongst most Christian circles, specifically "fundies."

I think that Jesus came here to save us from religion, and I feel like too much emphasis in the Christian church is placed on things that really don't matter.

I'm kind of a maverick so to speak.

:P

battlefront23

You should run for office. Calling yourself a maverick seems to be all it takes these days to rile up Republican support.

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battlefront23

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#42 battlefront23
Member since 2006 • 12625 Posts

[QUOTE="battlefront23"]

I'm a Christian, and yet I feel completely alone in my opinions amongst most Christian circles, specifically "fundies."

I think that Jesus came here to save us from religion, and I feel like too much emphasis in the Christian church is placed on things that really don't matter.

I'm kind of a maverick so to speak.

:P

chessmaster1989

You should run for office. Calling yourself a maverick seems to be all it takes these days to rile up Republican support.

Lol, I refuse to associate myself with that political party, or their "rival" either. I'm too much of an idealist to be a politician anyway.
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coolbeans90

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#43 coolbeans90
Member since 2009 • 21305 Posts

Eh, I'm sure there are hypocritical people who follow any religion/philosophy or set of political views. So, yes I would say so.

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mattbbpl

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#44 mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 23336 Posts

Anyone who follows the teaching of the Bible is a hypocrite.

St_JimmyX
I don't see your reasoning here.
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battlefront23

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#46 battlefront23
Member since 2006 • 12625 Posts
[QUOTE="St_JimmyX"]

Anyone who follows the teaching of the Bible is a hypocrite.

mattbbpl
I don't see your reasoning here.

Me either. Quite the sweeping statement I'd say.
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mattbbpl

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#47 mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 23336 Posts

I'm a Christian, and yet I feel completely alone in my opinions amongst most Christian circles, specifically "fundies."

I think that Jesus came here to save us from religion, and I feel like too much emphasis in the Christian church is placed on things that really don't matter.

I'm kind of a maverick so to speak.

:P

battlefront23

I actually agree with you here on:

"I feel like too much emphasis in the Christian church is placed on things that really don't matter"

although it may not be in the same areas as you. It seems like most of the denominational separations were largely caused by unimportant differences that ultimately don't matter in the large scheme of things.

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chopperdave447

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#48 chopperdave447
Member since 2009 • 597 Posts
1. I agree with them on many points. for example, i think cutting government spending is what we need to be doing right now. and while i do thing some form of socialized medicine is necessary, it sure as heck should not be adopted now when we need that money for more vital things like keeping our ecoonomy alive. 2. but i am also againts them on virtually every other point. i am anti religion, pro choice, pro gun laws (for the restriction of guns), i don't necessarily believe in global warming but i do believe we need to respect the earth. 3. i am also strongly against the right's commonly used tactics of fear mongering, brainwashing, torture, bribery, etc. and yes both sides do use these but you see them more apparently being used by the right IMO. 4. there is no "Left wing media". however, there is a "right wing media" it's known as all companies owned by rupert murdoch or fox in general. what other kind of media can spawn out 24 as well as faux news and still call itself politically neutral? so i guess you would say i'm an economic (fiscal?) conservative only.
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Omni-Slash

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#49 Omni-Slash
Member since 2003 • 54450 Posts
everyone is hypocritical about something......
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battlefront23

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#50 battlefront23
Member since 2006 • 12625 Posts
[QUOTE="chopperdave447"] 4. there is no "Left wing media". however, there is a "right wing media" it's known as all companies owned by rupert murdoch or fox in general. what other kind of media can spawn out 24 as well as faux news and still call itself politically neutral? .

All media has an agenda, and I can respectfully say that most lean towards the left. But yeah, Fox most definitely leans to the right,