Bailout US auto industry, good idea or bad?

Discuss.

The big 3 are a joke.  I heard the average pay for their workers is something like $73 per hour while it's $45 per hour for the Japanese makers.

I also found it hilarious that Mattel is worth more than the big 3.

They are poorley managed and should not be bailed out...part of their problem is the unions. GM was going downhill anyways so it shouldn't be bailed out...

They are poorley managed and should not be bailed out...part of their problem is the unions. GM was going downhill anyways so it shouldn't be bailed out...

hoola

That was an incredibly ill-informed statement. If not for unions, average wages for Americans would be about half what they are now.

Good and bad. Saving jobs is very important, but destroys the dollar and feeds inflation at the same time. So in the long-run it can be very bad. I wish we'd just abolish the federal reserve. That would fix our problems. :DLikeHaterade

The Fed has saved us in every economic downturn since the Great Depression. It would be idiotic to deregulate at this time.

[QUOTE="LikeHaterade"]Good and bad. Saving jobs is very important, but destroys the dollar and feeds inflation at the same time. So in the long-run it can be very bad. I wish we'd just abolish the federal reserve. That would fix our problems. :DLord__Darkstorn

The Fed has saved us in every economic downturn since the Great Depression. It would be idiotic to deregulate at this time.

It's the Fed that got us into this mess with deficit spending. It isn't even part of the government. Their fiscal policy ruined us and now we're letting the people that did this "fix" the problem.  

world war two got us out of the great depression, not the new deal.

the fed CREATES economic downturn through inflation and many other means that just goes on and on. If people cant hold banks r esponsible for giving what is essentially counterfiet money, what do you expect to happen? a great depression was inevitable.

world war two got us out of the great depression, not the new deal.

 

the fed CREATES economic downturn through inflation and many other means that just goes on and on. If people cant hold banks r esponsible for giving what is essentially counterfiet money, what do you expect to happen? a great depression was inevitable.

ToWelkinAtDusk

Bingo. The abolishment of the Federal Reserve FTW. 

[QUOTE="Lord__Darkstorn"]

[QUOTE="LikeHaterade"]Good and bad. Saving jobs is very important, but destroys the dollar and feeds inflation at the same time. So in the long-run it can be very bad. I wish we'd just abolish the federal reserve. That would fix our problems. :DLikeHaterade

The Fed has saved us in every economic downturn since the Great Depression. It would be idiotic to deregulate at this time.

It's the Fed that got us into this mess with deficit spending. It isn't even part of the government. Their fiscal policy ruined us and now we're letting the people that did this "fix" the problem.  

1. Though the Fed IS NOT part of the government, it functions as a department unto itself.

2. Alexander Hamilton (even though I disagreed with his social policies) was an economic genius, unlike Jefferson.

3. Deficit spending is NOT what got us into this. It was the predatory loan scandal, which was the fault of the corporations. I will admit that Fannie and Freddie played a part, but it was MINIMAL and not in the best interests of the government and the country as a whole.

world war two got us out of the great depression, not the new deal.

 

the fed CREATES economic downturn through inflation and many other means that just goes on and on. If people cant hold banks r esponsible for giving what is essentially counterfiet money, what do you expect to happen? a great depression was inevitable.

ToWelkinAtDusk

You know why the Fed causes inflation? Because it has to bail out those losers on Wall Street.

If not for the Federal Reserve, we'd probably be a province of China by now.

[QUOTE="LikeHaterade"][QUOTE="Lord__Darkstorn"]

 

The Fed has saved us in every economic downturn since the Great Depression. It would be idiotic to deregulate at this time.

Lord__Darkstorn

It's the Fed that got us into this mess with deficit spending. It isn't even part of the government. Their fiscal policy ruined us and now we're letting the people that did this "fix" the problem.  

1. Though the Fed IS NOT part of the government, it functions as a department unto itself.

2. Alexander Hamilton (even though I disagreed with his social policies) was an economic genius, unlike Jefferson.

3. Deficit spending is NOT what got us into this. It was the predatory loan scandal, which was the fault of the corporations. I will admit that Fannie and Freddie played a part, but it was MINIMAL and not in the best interests of the government and the country as a whole.

Predatory loans is not what is creating inflation right now. It's the Federal Reserve turning to the printing press for more money because they've borrowed too much from everyone else. It's money that the fed pules out of thin air. 

The big 3 are a joke.  I heard the average pay for their workers is something like $73 per hour while it's $45 per hour for the Japanese makers.

I also found it hilarious that Mattel is worth more than the big 3.

cametall

[QUOTE="ToWelkinAtDusk"]

world war two got us out of the great depression, not the new deal.

 

the fed CREATES economic downturn through inflation and many other means that just goes on and on. If people cant hold banks r esponsible for giving what is essentially counterfiet money, what do you expect to happen? a great depression was inevitable.

Lord__Darkstorn

You know why the Fed causes inflation? Because it has to bail out those losers on Wall Street.

If not for the Federal Reserve, we'd probably be a province of China by now.

I think this country would be better off having elected officials running monetary policies, and allow a currency to rise from the free-market, rather than private bankers be in control of it, create it and hand it out. 

[QUOTE="Lord__Darkstorn"][QUOTE="LikeHaterade"]

 

It's the Fed that got us into this mess with deficit spending. It isn't even part of the government. Their fiscal policy ruined us and now we're letting the people that did this "fix" the problem.  

LikeHaterade

1. Though the Fed IS NOT part of the government, it functions as a department unto itself.

2. Alexander Hamilton (even though I disagreed with his social policies) was an economic genius, unlike Jefferson.

3. Deficit spending is NOT what got us into this. It was the predatory loan scandal, which was the fault of the corporations. I will admit that Fannie and Freddie played a part, but it was MINIMAL and not in the best interests of the government and the country as a whole.

Predatory loans is not what is creating inflation right now. It's the Federal Reserve turning to the printing press for more money because they've borrowed too much from everyone else. It's money that the fed pules out of thin air. 

...and you know why they have to print more money? You don't? It's because those Fat Cats on Wall St. are dicking around with money and speculating on all these volatile industries, such as the home-loan industry.

[QUOTE="ToWelkinAtDusk"]

world war two got us out of the great depression, not the new deal.

 

the fed CREATES economic downturn through inflation and many other means that just goes on and on. If people cant hold banks r esponsible for giving what is essentially counterfiet money, what do you expect to happen? a great depression was inevitable.

Lord__Darkstorn

You know why the Fed causes inflation? Because it has to bail out those losers on Wall Street.

If not for the Federal Reserve, we'd probably be a province of China by now.

not true in the slightest. the reason the federal reserve was created was so banks could give people cash(that was made with no value backing it, thus devaluing our money) when they withdrew even though the banks had nothing.

If anything out banking system would be stronger without the fed, because it would force integrity 

essentially every economic problem we have can be attributed to the government, and its quasi-governmental organization known as the federal reserve. if im not mistaken, its not entirely private.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V5OP-VmXgE

theres a 4 minute video that will educate you why we have the federal reserve, from someone who isnt attacking it.

[QUOTE="LikeHaterade"][QUOTE="Lord__Darkstorn"]

 

1. Though the Fed IS NOT part of the government, it functions as a department unto itself.

2. Alexander Hamilton (even though I disagreed with his social policies) was an economic genius, unlike Jefferson.

3. Deficit spending is NOT what got us into this. It was the predatory loan scandal, which was the fault of the corporations. I will admit that Fannie and Freddie played a part, but it was MINIMAL and not in the best interests of the government and the country as a whole.

Lord__Darkstorn

Predatory loans is not what is creating inflation right now. It's the Federal Reserve turning to the printing press for more money because they've borrowed too much from everyone else. It's money that the fed pules out of thin air. 

...and you know why they have to print more money? You don't? It's because those Fat Cats on Wall St. are dicking around with money and speculating on all these volatile industries, such as the home-loan industry.

We were printing more money to pay off debts with all of these other countries, which is why the value of the dollar was going so low. Now, we have to print money to bail out these pork-barrel spending industries. The threat of inflation has been around for 2 years or so and instead of the Fed curing the disease, it's trying to treat the symptoms. 

 

We were printing more money to pay off debts with all of these other countries, which is why the value of the dollar was going so low. Now, we have to print money to bail out these pork-barrel spending industries. The threat of inflation has been around for 2 years or so and instead of the Fed curing the disease, it's trying to treat the symptoms. 

LikeHaterade

inflation has been around as long as theres been a fed. much longer than 2 years, i think the fed started in 1913.

the fed isnt trying to help anything, its simply making it worse. politicians shouldnt be in control of money, and the federal reserve gives politicians a ton of leeway

[QUOTE="LikeHaterade"]Good and bad. Saving jobs is very important, but destroys the dollar and feeds inflation at the same time. So in the long-run it can be very bad. I wish we'd just abolish the federal reserve. That would fix our problems. :DLord__Darkstorn

The Fed has saved us in every economic downturn since the Great Depression. It would be idiotic to deregulate at this time.

We have had more economic problems after the Fed was created than ever in America history. In fact, the Fed has NEVER done its job. It actually was a MAJOR cause of the great depression, Fed policy was totally BACKWARDS - that coupled with Britain and France not being able to get reparationayments from Germany destroyed the world economy. That is just one of many examples of how the Fed has never helped us, and in fact only served to hurt us.

Time for a story. Comming out of WorldWar 1 we have easily the stronest economy in the world with Britain and France oweing us as much as we owed them before the war. Problem is we can't get our money from them. We would have to lend money to germany for them to pay britain and france reparations, so britain and france could pay us our war debts. But that is just a circle, no wealth is generated, especially with the rest of the world's economy in peril. Harding is a fool. He signs the hawtley smoot tariff, and puts up a huge peacetime tariff-in fact the biggest in historyThis tariff killed trade, and killed wealth moving in and out of nations. America was overproducing right before the Depression. Little trade and inability to get war debts led to the de-valuation of the dollar. This overproduction virtually dropped a nuke between the rich and the poor. People in the stock market were buying on margin loans, on credit. People didn't understand its problems and they just kept buying and buying and investing. The Fed actually LOWERED INTEREST RATES which ENCOURAGED investing. They should have been pumping interests rates up. The government also had an extreme laisezz faire policy right before the depression. Then the stock market crashed and evetryone was expected to pay for all the investments they made on credit. It is important to understand that the stock market crash HAD THE SMALLEST IMPACT ON THE GREAT DEPRESSION. FDR gets into office and has his New Deal policies. Many of these policies got us in the hole more than we were, but it gave people things to do and hope. Which was all that mattered. WW2 got us out of the depression, we were never close to our pre-depression economy until the 60s.

Now this is very relevant to today. The wealth gap created during the depression has lasted. FDR gave farmers subsidies because they accidentally overproduced- he payethem to not grow crops. Well he died, and I guess america was too stupid to understand that half of these New Deal policies were to be abolished after we got on the right track. Even today we have extreme farm subsidies. Additionally, these subsidies don't even go to the farmers - they go to big agriculture...the businessment that own the land. Ever wonder why Mcdonald's can give you a big and tasty for 1$ and still make like 85 cents profit? They don't have to pay for their products because of government funding...AND TRUSTS. It is absurd the condition the American economy and the ignorace people have of big business and government policy.

These new deal procedures still taking place, coupled with incorrect Fed policy, and with separation of the classes....with our past 4 presidents being out of an insane asylum and with the retarded and toally false concept of "Trickle Down Economics" has caused our problem today. Capitalism is totally broken at this point.

The reason why bailing out the car dealerships is a MUST is because of separation of the classes. People are wayyyy too small and insignificant to save, and big business is too strong to let fall down and crush the people. So many jobs and retirement funds will be lost if they go under, as well as dsome foriegn relations trade. We have had incorrect economic policy for about 90% of the period from 1912-2008. I hope another Andrew Jackson finds his way into American power to crush big business and the Fed, which is the only way we will ever get out of the **** we have been in for the past 80 or so years.

[QUOTE="Lord__Darkstorn"][QUOTE="ToWelkinAtDusk"]

world war two got us out of the great depression, not the new deal.

 

the fed CREATES economic downturn through inflation and many other means that just goes on and on. If people cant hold banks r esponsible for giving what is essentially counterfiet money, what do you expect to happen? a great depression was inevitable.

ToWelkinAtDusk

You know why the Fed causes inflation? Because it has to bail out those losers on Wall Street.

If not for the Federal Reserve, we'd probably be a province of China by now.

not true in the slightest. the reason the federal reserve was created was so banks could give people cash(that was made with no value backing it, thus devaluing our money) when they withdrew even though the banks had nothing.

If anything out banking system would be stronger without the fed, because it would force integrity 

essentially every economic problem we have can be attributed to the government, and its quasi-governmental organization known as the federal reserve. if im not mistaken, its not entirely private.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V5OP-VmXgE

theres a 4 minute video that will educate you why we have the federal reserve, from someone who isnt attacking it.

Actually you're wrong. The Federal Reserve's responsibilities have grown greatly since the Depression; they are basically the central banking system for the entire country (with some exceptions, of course).

Let's look at this as it would happen:

Step 1: Some rich Wall St. guys get even greedier and decide to invest in a new industry, and they help market it and set it up for competition.

Step 2: The consumers don't back it (as happened with the recent housing crisis). The industry still has support, but it is falling fast.

Step 3: The Fat Cats, being individualists, draw out their money in order to preotect it from the crisis that they helped create.

Step 4: The economy takes a hit. Then a chain reaction occurs. The entire economy will soon be in the gutter.

Step 5: Even though noone likes it, the Fed MUST step in in order to avoid recession, and that devalues money in the process.

Which would you rather have - slightly devalued money or another Great Depression?

If we had more regulation, then big corporations wouldn't be able to invest in volatile industries, and there would be far less embezzlement and bad investments on Wall St.

Solution: Either we regulate more, or we have to devalue our money by having the Fed come in.

[QUOTE="Lord__Darkstorn"]

[QUOTE="LikeHaterade"]Good and bad. Saving jobs is very important, but destroys the dollar and feeds inflation at the same time. So in the long-run it can be very bad. I wish we'd just abolish the federal reserve. That would fix our problems. :DOptimusLupus

The Fed has saved us in every economic downturn since the Great Depression. It would be idiotic to deregulate at this time.

We have had more economic problems after the Fed was created than ever in America history. In fact, the Fed has NEVER done its job. It actually was a MAJOR cause of the great depression, Fed policy was totally BACKWARDS - that coupled with Britain and France not being able to get reparationayments from Germany destroyed the world economy. That is just one of many examples of how the Fed has never helped us, and in fact only served to hurt us.

Time for a story. Comming out of WorldWar 1 we have easily the stronest economy in the world with Britain and France oweing us as much as we owed them before the war. Problem is we can't get our money from them. We would have to lend money to germany for them to pay britain and france reparations, so britain and france could pay us our war debts. But that is just a circle, no wealth is generated, especially with the rest of the world's economy in peril. Harding is a fool. He signs the hawtley smoot tariff, and puts up a huge peacetime tariff-in fact the biggest in historyThis tariff killed trade, and killed wealth moving in and out of nations. America was overproducing right before the Depression. Little trade and inability to get war debts led to the de-valuation of the dollar. This overproduction virtually dropped a nuke between the rich and the poor. People in the stock market were buying on margin loans, on credit. People didn't understand its problems and they just kept buying and buying and investing. The Fed actually LOWERED INTEREST RATES which ENCOURAGED investing. They should have been pumping interests rates up. The government also had an extreme laisezz faire policy right before the depression. Then the stock market crashed and evetryone was expected to pay for all the investments they made on credit. It is important to understand that the stock market crash HAD THE SMALLEST IMPACT ON THE GREAT DEPRESSION. FDR gets into office and has his New Deal policies. Many of these policies got us in the hole more than we were, but it gave people things to do and hope. Which was all that mattered. WW2 got us out of the depression, we were never close to our pre-depression economy until the 60s.

Now this is very relevant to today. The wealth gap created during the depression has lasted. FDR gave farmers subsidies because they accidentally overproduced- he payethem to not grow crops. Well he died, and I guess america was too stupid to understand that half of these New Deal policies were to be abolished after we got on the right track. Even today we have extreme farm subsidies. Additionally, these subsidies don't even go to the farmers - they go to big agriculture...the businessment that own the land. Ever wonder why Mcdonald's can give you a big and tasty for 1$ and still make like 85 cents profit? They don't have to pay for their products because of government funding...AND TRUSTS. It is absurd the condition the American economy and the ignorace people have of big business and government policy.

These new deal procedures still taking place, coupled with incorrect Fed policy, and with separation of the classes....with our past 4 presidents being out of an insane asylum and with the retarded and toally false concept of "Trickle Down Economics" has caused our problem today. Capitalism is totally broken at this point.

The reason why bailing out the car dealerships is a MUST is because of separation of the classes. People are wayyyy too small and insignificant to save, and big business is too strong to let fall down and crush the people. So many jobs and retirement funds will be lost if they go under, as well as dsome foriegn relations trade. We have had incorrect economic policy for about 90% of the period from 1912-2008. I hope another Andrew Jackson finds his way into American power to crush big business and the Fed, which is the only way we will ever get out of the **** we have been in for the past 80 or so years.

the only thing thats going to save us is to let capitalism do its job, and to do that we need capitalism in the first place.

ANYONE who says the USA is capitalist is in dire need of an education.

[QUOTE="Lord__Darkstorn"][QUOTE="LikeHaterade"]

 

Predatory loans is not what is creating inflation right now. It's the Federal Reserve turning to the printing press for more money because they've borrowed too much from everyone else. It's money that the fed pules out of thin air. 

LikeHaterade

...and you know why they have to print more money? You don't? It's because those Fat Cats on Wall St. are dicking around with money and speculating on all these volatile industries, such as the home-loan industry.

We were printing more money to pay off debts with all of these other countries, which is why the value of the dollar was going so low. Now, we have to print money to bail out these pork-barrel spending industries. The threat of inflation has been around for 2 years or so and instead of the Fed curing the disease, it's trying to treat the symptoms. 

There's a difference between pork-barrel spending and investment, though. Most 'pork-barrel spending' is a nickname used by Republicans for legitimate government programs. John McCain once even called the Federal Regional Planning Association a 'pork-barrel project.'

Actually you're wrong. The Federal Reserve's responsibilities have grown greatly since the Depression; they are basically the central banking system for the entire country (with some exceptions, of course).

Let's look at this as it would happen:

Step 1: Some rich Wall St. guys get even greedier and decide to invest in a new industry, and they help market it and set it up for competition.

Step 2: The consumers don't back it (as happened with the recent housing crisis). The industry still has support, but it is falling fast.

Step 3: The Fat Cats, being individualists, draw out their money in order to preotect it from the crisis that they helped create.

Step 4: The economy takes a hit. Then a chain reaction occurs. The entire economy will soon be in the gutter.

Step 5: Even though noone likes it, the Fed MUST step in in order to avoid recession, and that devalues money in the process.

Which would you rather have - slightly devalued money or another Great Depression?

If we had more regulation, then big corporations wouldn't be able to invest in volatile industries, and there would be far less embezzlement and bad investments on Wall St.

Solution: Either we regulate more, or we have to devalue our money by having the Fed come in.

Lord__Darkstorn

Actually, im not. I highly suggest you do some research from a point of view not already your own. Did you even watch the video? or do you assume you know everything? Because im quite certain theres a few things you gotta brush up on

I know what the federal reserve is. I know its grown, and I know that its a bad thing.

another great depression is inevitable. Its better to just let it happen, the more we prolong it the worse its going to be. But if someone invests in a highly speculative company then that their fault. the fat cats dont invest in risky business a lot, they usually have so much money that they invest in money market accounts and such, as they dont need the high risk, and could live off of interest alone without touching the principal.

Why shouldnt someone be able to invest in a volitile industry? sometimes they take off, and that can be a good thing. 

Solution: Gold standard with next to no regulation, allow wealth to be created instead of stagnating.

There's a difference between pork-barrel spending and investment, though. Most 'pork-barrel spending' is a nickname used by Republicans for legitimate government programs. John McCain once even called the Federal Regional Planning Association a 'pork-barrel project.'

Lord__Darkstorn

any government service is pork barrel as the government gives inferior service in every way compared to a private enterprise. 

Bad idea. These companies are losing a billion dollars a month. Nothing can save them from their own failures.MetroidPrimePwn

very true. Theres some people who shouldnt be in some industries, and theres no need keeping them around. If you suck, you suck. I certainly dont want inferior automobiles, and frankly its time we let these companies die out and be replaced

We are largely capitalist, enough to say that we are captalist. If we let capitalism do its job the businesses that we have let grow and dominate the industries for the past 100 years, will fall. The biggetr they are the harder they fall. It will be like dropping a megaton weight on all of America. Anyone who thinks bailing out the businesses is dumb, is pretty uneducated....I of course don't support all of their power, but I understand the repurcussions of them collapsing. We ar ein such a bad place though, no matter what we do we will have furthur economic downturn. You will see it hit the fan harde in a few months. Fed interest rates are at 1% right now, and it still isn't encouraging investments right now. They will have to eventually raise it though or else our dollar will become de-valued. If we don't get some hardcore spending and investment going before they MUST raise it, then we will be in yet ANOTHER lose- lose situation. It'll be a few months before they have to raise it....I only hope some of these bail outs can fix the unemployment/spending problems and correct the housing crisis before then.

I would also like for you to tell me what America is, If this isn't mostly capitalistic i would reallllllly hate to see capitalism.

Even before the crisis, they were losing billions of dollars a year. Bailing them out is like putting a bandage on a serious injury because it won't matter, they will die. What's needed is an amputation.

We are largely capitalist, enough to say that we are captalist. If we let capitalism do its job the businesses that we have let grow and dominate the industries for the past 100 years, will fall. The biggetr they are the harder they fall. It will be like dropping a megaton weight on all of America. Anyone who thinks bailing out the businesses is dumb, is pretty uneducated....I of course don't support all of their power, but I understand the repurcussions of them collapsing. We ar ein such a bad place though, no matter what we do we will have furthur economic downturn. You will see it hit the fan harde in a few months. Fed interest rates are at 1% right now, and it still isn't encouraging investments right now. They will have to eventually raise it though or else our dollar will become de-valued. If we don't get some hardcore spending and investment going before they MUST raise it, then we will be in yet ANOTHER lose- lose situation. It'll be a few months before they have to raise it....I only hope some of these bail outs can fix the unemployment/spending problems and correct the housing crisis before then.

 

I would also like for you to tell me what America is, If this isn't mostly capitalistic i would reallllllly hate to see capitalism.

OptimusLupus

america is a mixed economy. capitalism is vastly different than what we have today.

you didnt even know that, and you call others uneducated.

[QUOTE="MetroidPrimePwn"]Bad idea. These companies are losing a billion dollars a month. Nothing can save them from their own failures.ToWelkinAtDusk

very true. Theres some people who shouldnt be in some industries, and theres no need keeping them around. If you suck, you suck. I certainly dont want inferior automobiles, and frankly its time we let these companies die out and be replaced

What about all of the American jobs that would be lost? 

[QUOTE="Lord__Darkstorn"]

There's a difference between pork-barrel spending and investment, though. Most 'pork-barrel spending' is a nickname used by Republicans for legitimate government programs. John McCain once even called the Federal Regional Planning Association a 'pork-barrel project.'

ToWelkinAtDusk

any government service is pork barrel as the government gives inferior service in every way compared to a private enterprise. 

No. Private enterprise only cares about the profit motive, so in terms of HC, it would therefore give exponantially better care to those with more money, correct?

Government programs are on a set budget. They need to give equal care to everyone. Private care would leave tens of millions without any health coverage (again using the HC example).

[QUOTE="ToWelkinAtDusk"]

[QUOTE="MetroidPrimePwn"]Bad idea. These companies are losing a billion dollars a month. Nothing can save them from their own failures.LikeHaterade

very true. Theres some people who shouldnt be in some industries, and theres no need keeping them around. If you suck, you suck. I certainly dont want inferior automobiles, and frankly its time we let these companies die out and be replaced

What about all of the American jobs that would be lost? 

We are largely capitalist, enough to say that we are captalist. If we let capitalism do its job the businesses that we have let grow and dominate the industries for the past 100 years, will fall. The biggetr they are the harder they fall. It will be like dropping a megaton weight on all of America. Anyone who thinks bailing out the businesses is dumb, is pretty uneducated....I of course don't support all of their power, but I understand the repurcussions of them collapsing. We ar ein such a bad place though, no matter what we do we will have furthur economic downturn. You will see it hit the fan harde in a few months. Fed interest rates are at 1% right now, and it still isn't encouraging investments right now. They will have to eventually raise it though or else our dollar will become de-valued. If we don't get some hardcore spending and investment going before they MUST raise it, then we will be in yet ANOTHER lose- lose situation. It'll be a few months before they have to raise it....I only hope some of these bail outs can fix the unemployment/spending problems and correct the housing crisis before then.

 

I would also like for you to tell me what America is, If this isn't mostly capitalistic i would reallllllly hate to see capitalism.

OptimusLupus

Well put, but the United Arab Emirates are the most Capitalistic society on the planet. Dubai? Abu Dhabi? That's them.

[QUOTE="hoola"]

They are poorley managed and should not be bailed out...part of their problem is the unions. GM was going downhill anyways so it shouldn't be bailed out...

Lord__Darkstorn

That was an incredibly ill-informed statement. If not for unions, average wages for Americans would be about half what they are now.

Unions are the reason the companies are paying more for their employees..you said it yourself. These companies are struggling because they don't have enough money...hmm i wonder how the unions could have contributed to that :roll: Yeah, they were good at a time when there were poor working conditions.

[QUOTE="ToWelkinAtDusk"][QUOTE="Lord__Darkstorn"]

There's a difference between pork-barrel spending and investment, though. Most 'pork-barrel spending' is a nickname used by Republicans for legitimate government programs. John McCain once even called the Federal Regional Planning Association a 'pork-barrel project.'

Lord__Darkstorn

any government service is pork barrel as the government gives inferior service in every way compared to a private enterprise. 

No. Private enterprise only cares about the profit motive, so in terms of HC, it would therefore give exponantially better care to those with more money, correct?

Government programs are on a set budget. They need to give equal care to everyone. Private care would leave tens of millions without any health coverage (again using the HC example).

private enterprise can care about whatever they want to, including money. 

theres a lot of healthcare plans.

unfortunately, many employers are forced to give healthcare options, which keeps the prices up. read up on supply and demand, and this will become very clear.

no they arent set on a budget, every year this "budget" keeps growing, so its safe to say there isnt one at all. private enterprise IS however set on a budget, and if they over spend it can cost them. the government can just tax.

that care happens to be garbage. No, we dont have a free market.

[QUOTE="Lord__Darkstorn"][QUOTE="hoola"]

They are poorley managed and should not be bailed out...part of their problem is the unions. GM was going downhill anyways so it shouldn't be bailed out...

hoola

That was an incredibly ill-informed statement. If not for unions, average wages for Americans would be about half what they are now.

Unions are the reason the companies are paying more for their employees..you said it yourself. These companies are struggling because they don't have enough money...hmm i wonder how the unions could have contributed to that :roll: Yeah, they were good at a time when there were poor working conditions.

unions arent the problem, government protection of unions are the problem. well... one of them anyway. 

government is essentially the reason for all the ills of the USA.

government is essentially the reason for all the ills of the USA.

ToWelkinAtDusk

C'mon now, you and I both know that is a gross exaggeration. 

[QUOTE="ToWelkinAtDusk"]

government is essentially the reason for all the ills of the USA.

entropyecho

C'mon now, you and I both know that is a gross exaggeration. 

Not at all.

Read this article, and im sure youll see that the government is essentially a giant failure.

http://mises.org/story/1471

[QUOTE="LikeHaterade"][QUOTE="ToWelkinAtDusk"]

 

 

very true. Theres some people who shouldnt be in some industries, and theres no need keeping them around. If you suck, you suck. I certainly dont want inferior automobiles, and frankly its time we let these companies die out and be replaced

ToWelkinAtDusk

What about all of the American jobs that would be lost? 

let them go, americans will find new jobs.

That's the thing - people who lost their jobs would go for lower-level jobs, forcing young people to forgo employment. It would offset the balance of everything.

[QUOTE="ToWelkinAtDusk"]

[QUOTE="MetroidPrimePwn"]Bad idea. These companies are losing a billion dollars a month. Nothing can save them from their own failures.LikeHaterade

very true. Theres some people who shouldnt be in some industries, and theres no need keeping them around. If you suck, you suck. I certainly dont want inferior automobiles, and frankly its time we let these companies die out and be replaced

What about all of the American jobs that would be lost?

They will be lost in the future anyway provided these companies don't change their bad management. Its better for people to move on now than later.