Belief in Santa Claus vs belief in God (an apology from domatron23)

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domatron23

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#1 domatron23
Member since 2007 • 6226 Posts

Just an interesting video that I found on youtube that contrasts and compares how people believe/disbelieve in both Santa and Christianity.

There's a whole bunch of other "atheist experience" videos there that are well worth checking out as well. The guys hosting the show are all really smart and eloquent.

EDIT: This isn't a "Christianity is just as false as Santa thread" sorry if I didn't make that clear. I'm more interested in exploring how people justify their beliefs and how they go about losing faith in them.

EDIT#2:

Well I think it's fair enough to call this my most epically failed attempt at a decent thread. I'll try to revive it though and gain back a little of my respect in the eyes of my fellow gamespotters.

Now first of all I made one incredibly stupid mistake when I created this thread, I put "Santa vs Christianity" instead of "Santa vs God". Christianity is specifically referring to the belief that Jesus sacrificed himself for our sins etc whereas God just refers to the God hypothesis in general as it may apply to any religious faith. There's a big difference between the two and I'm honestly sorry for failing to differentiate them.

Secondly I failed to give a decent line of argument. I just left you all with the title which admittedly implied that Christianity was just as poorly supported and juvenile as a belief in Santa. That's not at all what I meant and I'm sorry for not making that clear or simply not coming up with a less inflammatory title.

Here is the argument that I was interested in and the discussion that I wanted to provoke. Both Santa Claus and God are, to a certain extent, aetiological beliefs i.e. they are beliefs which explain the causes of observable phenomena in our world. For example the myth of Zeus gives an aetiological explanation of why thunder occurs, the myth of Persephone and Hades explains the seasons and so on and so forth. In the case of this topic, Santa explains how presents appear underneath christmas trees while God explains how we were created (and a great deal of other things besides that).

The question is, what happens to both of these beliefs when we encounter evidence that contradicts them? For the belief in Santa we can easily find out, through staying up over night on Christmas eve, that a jolly fat man in a red suit does not, in fact, come down our chimnies and throw presents under our trees. We can also easily find out how presents do in fact come to be under our trees when we realise that friends and family are putting them there. The answer seems obvious in the case of Santa that we should no longer believe.

But what about God and the things that he claims to do? We observe that there are no miracles happening today (I mean the water to wine / walking on water stuff) and we have an explanation for how we came to be (evolution and abiogenesis) that is well evidenced. What I want to examine here is this question; why does a child who has been told that Santa Claus delivers presents almost always reject this explanation upon finding evidence to the contrary while a religious person who has been told that God created mankind almost always sticks with this explanation despite evidence to the contrary?

Perhaps the evidence against the God hypothesis isn't quite as compelling as finding presents in your parents closet or perhaps the God hypothesis is stuck to so readily because it provides a stable social framework / moral value set?

Anyways that's what I intended for this thread and that's what I should have prepared before I posted. My bad guys and sorry if I come off as some sort of evangelical atheist. I really don't mind what you believe in but I just thought that this topic would be an interesting analogy. Hey even Dracargen compared God and aliens in a recent blog and I know that he certainly wasn't deciding the validity of one against the other. Same thing that I attempted here, unsuccessfully it would seem.

Peace everyone lets try to keep religion threads interesting rather than offensive.

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blackngold29

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#2 blackngold29
Member since 2004 • 14137 Posts

But Santa Claus is not real. Christanity's beliefs could be. You can't compare them.

It's like God/Aliens.

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MassEfectivator

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#3 MassEfectivator
Member since 2007 • 471 Posts

Santa- Some fat guy that breaks in your house, demands cookies be ready for him, and leaves you presents if you've been good and coal if you're bad. How the f does this guy know if kids have been good or bad? Is he a pedophilliac? Why does he leave coal? Carbon based poisoning? Why does he have so much candy and presents? Luring kids? Where does he get his coal from? Surely not from the North Pole if he can magically start fires! I'll have to keep tabs on this guy!Can he conjure coal up too?

No MATTER! MUHAHAHAH, Jesus can walk on water. Take that

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kakkarott23

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#4 kakkarott23
Member since 2003 • 2134 Posts

Santa- Some fat guy that breaks in your house, demands cookies be ready for him, and leaves you presents if you've been good and coal if you're bad. How the f does this guy know if kids have been good or bad? Is he a pedophilliac? Why does he leave coal? Carbon based poisoning? Why does he have so much candy and presents? Luring kids? Where does he get his coal from? Surely not from the North Pole if he can magically start fires! I'll have to keep tabs on this guy!Can he conjure coal up too?

No MATTER! MUHAHAHAH, Jesus can walk on water. Take that

MassEfectivator

Don't forget about Santa's cheap slave labor.......I think he makes the elves wear collars and if they run away their heads will explode.......

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domatron23

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#5 domatron23
Member since 2007 • 6226 Posts

But Santa Claus is not real. Christanity's beliefs could be. You can't compare them.

It's like God/Aliens.

blackngold29

The justification to believe in them is just the same though. Watch the video, it explains it way better than I could.

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MassEfectivator

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#6 MassEfectivator
Member since 2007 • 471 Posts
[QUOTE="MassEfectivator"]

Santa- Some fat guy that breaks in your house, demands cookies be ready for him, and leaves you presents if you've been good and coal if you're bad. How the f does this guy know if kids have been good or bad? Is he a pedophilliac? Why does he leave coal? Carbon based poisoning? Why does he have so much candy and presents? Luring kids? Where does he get his coal from? Surely not from the North Pole if he can magically start fires! I'll have to keep tabs on this guy!Can he conjure coal up too?

No MATTER! MUHAHAHAH, Jesus can walk on water. Take that

kakkarott23

Don't forget about Santa's cheap slave labor.......I think he makes the elves wear collars and if they run away their heads will explode.......

You suspect he's running a sweatshop then?

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blackngold29

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#7 blackngold29
Member since 2004 • 14137 Posts
The "huge conspiricy which is Santa". HAha, nice. She keeps going back to finding gifts in the closet, which isn't true for me or I would guess most others. My parents told me Santa wasn't real, so I can see where she's coming from, but it's pretty weak.
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domatron23

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#8 domatron23
Member since 2007 • 6226 Posts

The "huge conspiricy which is Santa". HAha, nice. She keeps going back to finding gifts in the closet, which isn't true for me or I would guess most others. My parents told me Santa wasn't real, so I can see where she's coming from, but it's pretty weak.blackngold29

The whole point of it though is to question why some people don't stop believing in Christianity when presented with a similar discovery or authority.

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blackngold29

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#9 blackngold29
Member since 2004 • 14137 Posts

[QUOTE="blackngold29"]The "huge conspiricy which is Santa". HAha, nice. She keeps going back to finding gifts in the closet, which isn't true for me or I would guess most others. My parents told me Santa wasn't real, so I can see where she's coming from, but it's pretty weak.domatron23

The whole point of it though is to question why some people don't stop believing in Christianity when presented with a similar discovery or authority.

Yeah, I understand that and it is interesting. However, I would say it's because people have believed in christianity for over 2000 years, many for their entire lives, many starting part way through. But nobody believes in Santa for their entire lives.
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domatron23

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#10 domatron23
Member since 2007 • 6226 Posts
[QUOTE="domatron23"]

[QUOTE="blackngold29"]The "huge conspiricy which is Santa". HAha, nice. She keeps going back to finding gifts in the closet, which isn't true for me or I would guess most others. My parents told me Santa wasn't real, so I can see where she's coming from, but it's pretty weak.blackngold29

The whole point of it though is to question why some people don't stop believing in Christianity when presented with a similar discovery or authority.

Yeah, I understand that and it is interesting. However, I would say it's because people have believed in christianity for over 2000 years, many for their entire lives, many starting part way through. But nobody believes in Santa for their entire lives.

What about if we pulled a switcheroo? If we pretend that the belief in Santa Claus has been around for thousands of years, that people believe in it for their entire lives and that Christianity is just a fable that people quickly grow out of then would it be unjust to compare them despite our knowlege that at least one is false beyond all reasonable doubt?

Seems like the differences between believing in Santa and Christianity are pretty superficial.

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MassEfectivator

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#11 MassEfectivator
Member since 2007 • 471 Posts

[QUOTE="blackngold29"]The "huge conspiricy which is Santa". HAha, nice. She keeps going back to finding gifts in the closet, which isn't true for me or I would guess most others. My parents told me Santa wasn't real, so I can see where she's coming from, but it's pretty weak.domatron23

The whole point of it though is to question why some people don't stop believing in Christianity when presented with a similar discovery or authority.

Jesus is real cuz he owns that pedophilliac Santa.

Jesus was in many beliefs for centuries

Santa was created recently for amusment

Why are you atheists always trying to turn people away from their faith and make them feel stupid? Christians tell you about God because there faith asks they do it! No one is forcing you! If they want to believe in something and it's not harming anyone, well don't worry about it. I'm a 100% sure there aren't any muslim terroists watching that video going, "Of course."

It's not fair to compare a 100% fabled person to a unknown deity

No offense to you personally by the way and sorry if it came out harsh.

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MassEfectivator

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#12 MassEfectivator
Member since 2007 • 471 Posts
[QUOTE="blackngold29"][QUOTE="domatron23"]

[QUOTE="blackngold29"]The "huge conspiricy which is Santa". HAha, nice. She keeps going back to finding gifts in the closet, which isn't true for me or I would guess most others. My parents told me Santa wasn't real, so I can see where she's coming from, but it's pretty weak.domatron23

The whole point of it though is to question why some people don't stop believing in Christianity when presented with a similar discovery or authority.

Yeah, I understand that and it is interesting. However, I would say it's because people have believed in christianity for over 2000 years, many for their entire lives, many starting part way through. But nobody believes in Santa for their entire lives.

What about if we pulled a switcheroo? If we pretend that the belief in Santa Claus has been around for thousands of years, that people believe in it for their entire lives and that Christianity is just a fable that people quickly grow out of then would it be unjust to compare them despite our knowlege that at least one is false beyond all reasonable doubt?

Seems like the differences between believing in Santa and Christianity are pretty superficial.

When you say switch around, you mean that for 2000 years people have been believing in a guy who brings em presents once a year? Gimme a break, you can disprove the existence of Santa easily by waking up and finding no dog on presents. But it seems Jesus has had a impact on lives real or not, because he inspires people

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blackngold29

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#13 blackngold29
Member since 2004 • 14137 Posts
[QUOTE="blackngold29"][QUOTE="domatron23"]

[QUOTE="blackngold29"]The "huge conspiricy which is Santa". HAha, nice. She keeps going back to finding gifts in the closet, which isn't true for me or I would guess most others. My parents told me Santa wasn't real, so I can see where she's coming from, but it's pretty weak.domatron23

The whole point of it though is to question why some people don't stop believing in Christianity when presented with a similar discovery or authority.

Yeah, I understand that and it is interesting. However, I would say it's because people have believed in christianity for over 2000 years, many for their entire lives, many starting part way through. But nobody believes in Santa for their entire lives.

What about if we pulled a switcheroo? If we pretend that the belief in Santa Claus has been around for thousands of years, that people believe in it for their entire lives and that Christianity is just a fable that people quickly grow out of then would it be unjust to compare them despite our knowlege that at least one is false beyond all reasonable doubt?

Seems like the differences between believing in Santa and Christianity are pretty superficial.

But Santa Claus isn't a guide of how to live your life. It's comparing a fictional character with a religion, not really that close.
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blackngold29

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#14 blackngold29
Member since 2004 • 14137 Posts
But it seems Jesus has had a impact on lives real or not, because he inspires peopleMassEfectivator
Amen, You can call him Jesus, God, The force, Whatever. Fact is it's been changing people's lives since forever, and that can't be denyed.
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domatron23

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#15 domatron23
Member since 2007 • 6226 Posts
Jesus is real cuz he owns that pedophilliac Santa.

Jesus was in many beliefs for centuries

Santa was created recently for amusment

I'm not disputing any of those points.

Why are you atheists always trying to turn people away from their faith and make them feel stupid? Christians tell you about God because there faith asks they do it! No one is forcing you! If they want to believe in something and it's not harming anyone, well don't worry about it. I'm a 100% sure there aren't any muslim terroists watching that video going, "Of course."

Sorry I didn't mean to belittle or proselytize but I guess it comes off that way. What I'm really interested in here is to examine how we justify and maintain beliefs, the Santa example offers a good insight into Christianity that's all I wasn't meaning to compare the validity of the two.

It's not fair to compare a 100% fabled person to a unknown deity

No offense to you personally by the way and sorry if it came out harsh.

MassEfectivator
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#16 hagadorn
Member since 2007 • 630 Posts
[QUOTE="domatron23"][QUOTE="blackngold29"][QUOTE="domatron23"]

[QUOTE="blackngold29"]The "huge conspiricy which is Santa". HAha, nice. She keeps going back to finding gifts in the closet, which isn't true for me or I would guess most others. My parents told me Santa wasn't real, so I can see where she's coming from, but it's pretty weak.blackngold29

The whole point of it though is to question why some people don't stop believing in Christianity when presented with a similar discovery or authority.

Yeah, I understand that and it is interesting. However, I would say it's because people have believed in christianity for over 2000 years, many for their entire lives, many starting part way through. But nobody believes in Santa for their entire lives.

What about if we pulled a switcheroo? If we pretend that the belief in Santa Claus has been around for thousands of years, that people believe in it for their entire lives and that Christianity is just a fable that people quickly grow out of then would it be unjust to compare them despite our knowlege that at least one is false beyond all reasonable doubt?

Seems like the differences between believing in Santa and Christianity are pretty superficial.

But Santa Claus isn't a guide of how to live your life. It's comparing a fictional character with a religion, not really that close.

actually santa isnt a fictional character he was a real person from germany or somewhere like that and besides there is more evidence to support the idea that jesus is a fictional character seeing as he is written about in a book. and as for growing out of it, i used to believe in god and jesus because thats what i was taught at school bu as i got older i thought about it rationally and decided that it wasnt worth trying to base my life on someone who may or may not have existed 2000 years ago and to follow a higher power that i can see no evidence of.

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domatron23

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#17 domatron23
Member since 2007 • 6226 Posts

[QUOTE="MassEfectivator"] But it seems Jesus has had a impact on lives real or not, because he inspires peopleblackngold29
Amen, You can call him Jesus, God, The force, Whatever. Fact is it's been changing people's lives since forever, and that can't be denyed.

Who's denying it? I'm looking at truth and justification here not what the implications of belief are. Although since you mention it Santa does encourage "niceness" and condemn "naughtiness". That could be deemed a moral guide or a life changing factor. Nevertheless that's beyond the intentions of this thread.

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blackngold29

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#18 blackngold29
Member since 2004 • 14137 Posts
actually santa isnt a fictional character he was a real person from germany or somewhere like that and besides there is more evidence to support the idea that jesus is a fictional character seeing as he is written about in a book.hagadorn
You're suggesting anyone written about in a book is fictional? And I meant "Santa Claus" as in the fictional character we view him as.
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killtactics

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#19 killtactics
Member since 2004 • 5957 Posts

[QUOTE="blackngold29"][QUOTE="MassEfectivator"] But it seems Jesus has had a impact on lives real or not, because he inspires peopledomatron23

Amen, You can call him Jesus, God, The force, Whatever. Fact is it's been changing people's lives since forever, and that can't be denyed.

Who's denying it? I'm looking at truth and justification here not what the implications of belief are. Although since you mention it Santa does encourage "niceness" and condemn "naughtiness". That could be deemed a moral guide or a life changing factor. Nevertheless that's beyond the intentions of this thread.

Santa is some old fat guy, while Jesus has implications beyond who he is. Ultimately belief in Jesus is a belief in a creator, and people believe in a creator because they don't believe everything in the universe happened by accident..... which is what the majority of atheist believe....
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InterpolWilco

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#20 InterpolWilco
Member since 2005 • 2487 Posts

Am I the only one that is annoyed by extremists on both sides?

I'm a Catholic, but I don't force my beliefs down people's throats, and am respectful of everyone's beliefs. Whether they be religious or atheists.

Religious extremists come across as insane. Extreme Atheists come across as giant douche bags.

Anyways. Santa Claus WAS a real guy at one time. He wasn't a jolly fat guy, but he went around giving candy to children in their shoes. Why is a story about giving, and then a story about a man who sacrificed himself for the greater good of all mankind so threatening to some people?

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#21 Ontain
Member since 2005 • 25501 Posts

[QUOTE="MassEfectivator"] But it seems Jesus has had a impact on lives real or not, because he inspires peopleblackngold29
Amen, You can call him Jesus, God, The force, Whatever. Fact is it's been changing people's lives since forever, and that can't be denyed.

a man can inspire ppl. he doesn't need to be a son of god to do so. of course existing in those times it's probably easier to accept that he was supernatural rather than just a wise person like Buddha or Confucius. (although some religious sects think Buddha was an avatar of God as well)

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MassEfectivator

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#22 MassEfectivator
Member since 2007 • 471 Posts

Anyways. Santa Claus WAS a real guy at one time. He wasn't a jolly fat guy, but he went around giving candy to children in their shoes.

InterpolWilco

EXACTLY. He also left a message that read "There's more! Come to the workshop, and we'll see if a woodchuck could F*** wood

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MassEfectivator

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#23 MassEfectivator
Member since 2007 • 471 Posts

[QUOTE="blackngold29"][QUOTE="MassEfectivator"] But it seems Jesus has had a impact on lives real or not, because he inspires peopleOntain

Amen, You can call him Jesus, God, The force, Whatever. Fact is it's been changing people's lives since forever, and that can't be denyed.

a man can inspire ppl. he doesn't need to be a son of god to do so. of course existing in those times it's probably easier to accept that he was supernatural rather than just a wise person like Buddha or Confucius. (although some religious sects think Buddha was an avatar of God as well)

Exactly. Jesus is a central figure because he gives people hopes and not gloom knowing they got 70 years until there existence ends.

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domatron23

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#24 domatron23
Member since 2007 • 6226 Posts

Am I the only one that is annoyed by extremists on both sides?

I'm a Catholic, but I don't force my beliefs down people's throats, and am respectful of everyone's beliefs. Whether they be religious or atheists.

Religious extremists come across as insane. Extreme Atheists come across as giant douche bags.

Anyways. Santa Claus WAS a real guy at one time. He wasn't a jolly fat guy, but he went around giving candy to children in their shoes. Why is a story about giving, and then a story about a man who sacrificed himself for the greater good of all mankind so threatening to some people?

InterpolWilco

Okay I think I'm putting across the wrong message here. This thread is just about beliefs and our justification for them, it's not about ridiculing Christianity, it's not about saying that Christianity is false, it's not about saying that Christianity is bad and it's not about trying to convert people to atheism.

Watch the video and read what I have actually said before you categorize me as a giant douchebag.

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cosmostein77

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#25 cosmostein77
Member since 2004 • 7043 Posts
Athist's seem to be working harder to convert people then the Latter Day Saints.
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#26 jlh47
Member since 2007 • 3326 Posts

http://bibleprobe.com/exodus.htm

we can at least prove ours.

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#27 Serial-No_3404
Member since 2007 • 2876 Posts
theres no point in believing in either
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#28 jlh47
Member since 2007 • 3326 Posts

http://www.reasons.org/resources/apologetics/prophecy.shtml

i don't see santa fulfilling over 300 prophecies.

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#29 SpaceMoose
Member since 2004 • 10789 Posts

Santa is easily confirmed to be not real since the only thing he is really known for, delivering presents, is easily confirmed in just about every case to be done by people pretending to be Santa.

All of the supposed miracles of Jesus, on the other hand, are certainly not provable, but then are not really disprovable either except by the fact that they aren't really compatible with one's experience of how the world really works and the fact that the only basis for believing in such events is primarily the Bible. You would think that if some person did all of that crazy stuff a mere 2000 years ago, there would be more records of it than a single religious text generally agreed to have been written hundreds of years after Jesus would have been alive. Also, the idea that God would wait that long to give all of these lessons to humanity is rather troubling in itself. Again, though, it's not quite the same thing as, "Oh, so that's who is REALLY doing the Santa stuff."

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SpaceMoose

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#30 SpaceMoose
Member since 2004 • 10789 Posts

http://www.reasons.org/resources/apologetics/prophecy.shtml

i don't see santa fulfilling over 300 prophecies.

jlh47

Uh, that doesn't prove that the "prophecies" were actually fulfilled, since it necessitates believing what the Bible says to begin with. Circular reasoning FTW?

I also like the completely arbitrary "probabilities" given on the page. If those were supposed to make it look more credible, they failed miserably.

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deactivated-59d151f079814

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#31 deactivated-59d151f079814
Member since 2003 • 47239 Posts

http://www.reasons.org/resources/apologetics/prophecy.shtml

i don't see santa fulfilling over 300 prophecies.

jlh47

The prophecies you have shown are immensely vague and can be linked to numerous events..

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#32 MattUD1
Member since 2004 • 20715 Posts
[QUOTE="jlh47"]

http://www.reasons.org/resources/apologetics/prophecy.shtml

i don't see santa fulfilling over 300 prophecies.

sSubZerOo

The prophecies you have shown are immensely vague and can be linked to numerous events..

As are most prophecies.
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Wolf-Man2006

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#33 Wolf-Man2006
Member since 2006 • 4187 Posts
People never saw Santa Claus. Whereas people actually have seen Jesus 2000 years ago. You can't compare people believing Santa exists to Christianity (we know what the North Pole looks like, no elfs or reindeer roaming around.)
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#34 Hewkii
Member since 2006 • 26339 Posts
one of them is about a man whose actions are misconstrued and aren't followed much if at all, and thus has entered a mythological state which people fear and sometimes hate him for, and the other one is about Jesus.
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#35 Dracargen
Member since 2007 • 7928 Posts

Just an interesting video that I found on youtube

domatron23

Oh, Domatron, I thought you were above this.:cry:

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Dracargen

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#36 Dracargen
Member since 2007 • 7928 Posts

You would think that if some person did all of that crazy stuff a mere 2000 years ago, there would be more records of it than a single religious text generally agreed to have been written hundreds of years after Jesus would have been alive.

SpaceMoose

Nevermind that about ten percent of people knew how to read and write back then (making us lucky that anything was recorded at all), and the earliest Gospel was written no more than ninety years after Christ's death.

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ancient_diamond

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#37 ancient_diamond
Member since 2008 • 40 Posts

[QUOTE="MassEfectivator"] But it seems Jesus has had a impact on lives real or not, because he inspires peopleblackngold29
Amen, You can call him Jesus, God, The force, Whatever. Fact is it's been changing people's lives since forever, and that can't be denyed.

Actually He has only been changing lives for about 2000 years since that is when Christianity was made up.

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kittykatz5k

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#38 kittykatz5k
Member since 2004 • 32249 Posts

But Santa Claus is not real. Christanity's beliefs could be. You can't compare them.

It's like God/Aliens.

blackngold29

Only difference I really see is Santa's beliefs promise he'll do something that won't get done without the sneakyness of parents that night before, God promises nothing and delivers absolutly nothing. I'd rather believe in santa, at least with him, he says something will happen.

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xSIZEMATTER

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#39 xSIZEMATTER
Member since 2008 • 7045 Posts

Damn people stop trying to make people be someone else than who they are. Let people live there life. Why do you care?

All this thread was made for was to hate, and you know it :|

Stop trying to force people how to live there life :x

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bradleybhoy

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#40 bradleybhoy
Member since 2005 • 6501 Posts

A fair compariosn in terms of blind belief however the Christian faith has a core of important moral ideas and philosophies which are sometimes simply ignored or twisted by certain people who claim to be Christian.

The reported life of Jesus influenced Martin Luther King Jr. greatly. He's perhaps the greatest example in modern times of Christian values in practice. Ghandi too.

Although I am far from considering myself Christian I am very grateful that my parents made me go to church every Sunday when I was young, I now see that I learned quite a bit.

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AAllxxjjnn

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#41 AAllxxjjnn
Member since 2008 • 19992 Posts

Am I the only one that is annoyed by extremists on both sides?

I'm a Catholic, but I don't force my beliefs down people's throats, and am respectful of everyone's beliefs. Whether they be religious or atheists.

Religious extremists come across as insane. Extreme Atheists come across as giant douche bags.

Anyways. Santa Claus WAS a real guy at one time. He wasn't a jolly fat guy, but he went around giving candy to children in their shoes. Why is a story about giving, and then a story about a man who sacrificed himself for the greater good of all mankind so threatening to some people?

InterpolWilco

VERY TRUE.

I am an "atheist" or whatever, and i respect others beliefs. I find it annoying when other atheists try to discredit what others believe in.

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thriteenthmonke

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#42 thriteenthmonke
Member since 2005 • 49823 Posts
This thread is awesome. :|
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fanofazrienoch

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#43 fanofazrienoch
Member since 2008 • 1573 Posts

one cannot possibly compare a belief in santa claus with the resurrection, an event that can be established like any other event of antiquity.

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SpaceMoose

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#44 SpaceMoose
Member since 2004 • 10789 Posts

Nevermind that about ten percent of people knew how to read and write back then (making us lucky that anything was recorded at all), and the earliest Gospel was written no more than ninety years after Christ's death.

Dracargen

Okay, so out of those 10 percent, and that number is according to you, there is only one written work that documents these supposed events, and it happens to be a religious text, a text which can't even agree with itself on something as simple as what Jesus' dying words were, I might add. Last I checked 10 percent of the population is still a lot of people... This is a text that - and I'm just talking about the New Testament here - doesn't keep much of a "record" of anything that is not somehow religiously related. Well, that's convenient. And okay, ninety years then by your account...and that is for the earliest. That doesn't really change my overall point any.

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hamstergeddon

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#45 hamstergeddon
Member since 2006 • 7188 Posts
[QUOTE="MassEfectivator"]

Santa- Some fat guy that breaks in your house, demands cookies be ready for him, and leaves you presents if you've been good and coal if you're bad. How the f does this guy know if kids have been good or bad? Is he a pedophilliac? Why does he leave coal? Carbon based poisoning? Why does he have so much candy and presents? Luring kids? Where does he get his coal from? Surely not from the North Pole if he can magically start fires! I'll have to keep tabs on this guy!Can he conjure coal up too?

No MATTER! MUHAHAHAH, Jesus can walk on water. Take that

kakkarott23

Don't forget about Santa's cheap slave labor.......I think he makes the elves wear collars and if they run away their heads will explode.......


:lol: Winner right here!
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fanofazrienoch

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#46 fanofazrienoch
Member since 2008 • 1573 Posts
[QUOTE="Dracargen"]

Nevermind that about ten percent of people knew how to read and write back then (making us lucky that anything was recorded at all), and the earliest Gospel was written no more than ninety years after Christ's death.

SpaceMoose

Okay, so out of those 10 percent, and that number is according to you, there is only one written work that documents these supposed events, and it happens to be a religious text, a text which can't even agree with itself on something as simple as what Jesus' dying words were, I might add. This is a text that, and I'm just talking about the New Testament here, doesn't keep much of a "record" of anything that is not somehow religiously related. Well, that's convenient. Last I checked 10 percent of a lot of people is still a lot of people... And okay, ninety years then by your account...and that is for the earliest. That doesn't really change my overall point any.

2 points I wish to make

Dracargen, how did you arrive at the conclusion that the 1st Gospel was written in 120 A.D?

spacemoose, the resurrection is attested in 7 works by 4 authors. the Pauline epistles attest to the resurrection, Acts of the Apostles attests to it, and all 4 Gospels, 2 of which were authored by eye-witnesses (Matthew and John) and the other 2 of which had eye-witnesses as their sources (Luke probably recieved his information fro Paul, Peter, and James, and Mark recieved his information from Peter), agree on this.

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SpaceMoose

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#47 SpaceMoose
Member since 2004 • 10789 Posts

one cannot possibly compare a belief in santa claus with the resurrection, an event that can be established like any other event of antiquity.

fanofazrienoch

Okay, without using the Bible, a clearly religious text, establish this event.

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fanofazrienoch

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#48 fanofazrienoch
Member since 2008 • 1573 Posts
[QUOTE="fanofazrienoch"]

one cannot possibly compare a belief in santa claus with the resurrection, an event that can be established like any other event of antiquity.

SpaceMoose

Okay, without using the Bible, a clearly religious text, establish this event.

explain why being canonized make a document unreliable.
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#49 legend26
Member since 2007 • 16010 Posts
[QUOTE="MassEfectivator"]

Santa- Some fat guy that breaks in your house, demands cookies be ready for him, and leaves you presents if you've been good and coal if you're bad. How the f does this guy know if kids have been good or bad? Is he a pedophilliac? Why does he leave coal? Carbon based poisoning? Why does he have so much candy and presents? Luring kids? Where does he get his coal from? Surely not from the North Pole if he can magically start fires! I'll have to keep tabs on this guy!Can he conjure coal up too?

No MATTER! MUHAHAHAH, Jesus can walk on water. Take that

kakkarott23

Don't forget about Santa's cheap slave labor.......I think he makes the elves wear collars and if they run away their heads will explode.......

I :lol:ed
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#50 SpaceMoose
Member since 2004 • 10789 Posts
[QUOTE="SpaceMoose"][QUOTE="Dracargen"]

Nevermind that about ten percent of people knew how to read and write back then (making us lucky that anything was recorded at all), and the earliest Gospel was written no more than ninety years after Christ's death.

fanofazrienoch

Okay, so out of those 10 percent, and that number is according to you, there is only one written work that documents these supposed events, and it happens to be a religious text, a text which can't even agree with itself on something as simple as what Jesus' dying words were, I might add. This is a text that, and I'm just talking about the New Testament here, doesn't keep much of a "record" of anything that is not somehow religiously related. Well, that's convenient. Last I checked 10 percent of a lot of people is still a lot of people... And okay, ninety years then by your account...and that is for the earliest. That doesn't really change my overall point any.

2 points I wish to make

Dracargen, how did you arrive at the conclusion that the 1st Gospel was written in 120 A.D?

spacemoose, the resurrection is attested in 7 works by 4 authors. the Pauline epistles attest to the resurrection, Acts of the Apostles attests to it, and all 4 Gospels, 2 of which were authored by eye-witnesses (Matthew and John) and the other 2 of which had eye-witnesses as their sources (Luke probably recieved his information fro Paul, Peter, and James, and Mark recieved his information from Peter), agree on this.

So which of those isn't part of the Bible again?