Big Gov't vs. Small Gov't

I don't want to overdue the political debate tonight, but I think this is a fundamental issue and am interested in people's views.

I understand that most people do not want the government to control ever aspect of their lives. I also understand that no government control in the economy will probably put the rich in control and give the shaft to those born into poverty. However, it worries me how people seem to be looking to the government to solve the problems in their lives. Like Ford said, (i think) " a government big enough to give you everything you want is a government powerful enough to take from you everything you have".

Are you for big government or small government? Also, where do you think the line that shouldn't be crossed lie for gov't control?

I personally am for the government staying out, unless it is an issue that presents a threat to the stability of the country itself.

Government has no right in certain parts of my life. Its job is to protect us and make sure we have a high quality of life.gbpman630

Well to ensure a "high quality of life" the government would probably have to have a decently high level of involvement. what do you consider high quality? What if that high quality is at the cost of the government controlling your income and your job and such.

[QUOTE="gbpman630"]Government has no right in certain parts of my life. Its job is to protect us and make sure we have a high quality of life.superheromonkey

Well to ensure a "high quality of life" the government would probably have to have a decently high level of involvement. what do you consider high quality? What if that high quality is at the cost of the government controlling your income and your job and such.

Things like making sure that our country is safe, making sure that everyone has quality and affordable healthcare, making sure we have a sound education system...etc. But government should not try to make my decisions for me and and should not tell me what I can't do if said action causes no harm to anyone.

Honestly at this point I don't think there's that much of a difference. Either way there's plenty of power to be hoarded in our country, and whether it's the government taking it or corporations it makes little difference in the end. Either big gov't takes over small businesses or big businesses take over small government. Either way power and money have a way of coming together.

Anyway we need bigger government, and universal health carealexmurray

What do you think the government should do about poverty. My worry is that there is no end to the control once universal health care hits. I myself, at least right now, am for a basic universal health care plan that would specifically be aimed towards children, (not a mandatory system) However, I am for some serious government reform in their poor spending habits before it takes place.

[QUOTE="alexmurray"]Anyway we need bigger government, and universal health caresuperheromonkey

What do you think the government should do about poverty. My worry is that there is no end to the control once universal health care hits. I myself, at least right now, am for a basic universal health care plan that would specifically be aimed towards children, (not a mandatory system) However, I am for some serious government reform in their poor spending habits before it takes place.

Yes we need to give aid to poorer people in the form of extra Food stamps, tax breaks and child aid

but we need proof that they need aid.

And look at other western nations with universal heath care, they don't have extremegovernment control

[QUOTE="superheromonkey"]

[QUOTE="alexmurray"]Anyway we need bigger government, and universal health carealexmurray

What do you think the government should do about poverty. My worry is that there is no end to the control once universal health care hits. I myself, at least right now, am for a basic universal health care plan that would specifically be aimed towards children, (not a mandatory system) However, I am for some serious government reform in their poor spending habits before it takes place.

Yes we need to give aid to poorer people in the form of extra Food stamps, tax breaks and child aid

but we need proof that they need aid.

And look at other western nations with universal heath care, they don't have extremegovernment control

[QUOTE="alexmurray"][QUOTE="superheromonkey"]

[QUOTE="alexmurray"]Anyway we need bigger government, and universal health careZcrimson07

What do you think the government should do about poverty. My worry is that there is no end to the control once universal health care hits. I myself, at least right now, am for a basic universal health care plan that would specifically be aimed towards children, (not a mandatory system) However, I am for some serious government reform in their poor spending habits before it takes place.

Yes we need to give aid to poorer people in the form of extra Food stamps, tax breaks and child aid

but we need proof that they need aid.

And look at other western nations with universal heath care, they don't have extremegovernment control

I have lived in other nations and it works, and if you don't like it, then buy health insurance

[QUOTE="Zcrimson07"][QUOTE="alexmurray"][QUOTE="superheromonkey"]

[QUOTE="alexmurray"]Anyway we need bigger government, and universal health carealexmurray

What do you think the government should do about poverty. My worry is that there is no end to the control once universal health care hits. I myself, at least right now, am for a basic universal health care plan that would specifically be aimed towards children, (not a mandatory system) However, I am for some serious government reform in their poor spending habits before it takes place.

Yes we need to give aid to poorer people in the form of extra Food stamps, tax breaks and child aid

but we need proof that they need aid.

And look at other western nations with universal heath care, they don't have extremegovernment control

I have lived in other nations and it works, and if you don't like it, then buy health insurance

[QUOTE="Zcrimson07"][QUOTE="alexmurray"][QUOTE="superheromonkey"]

[QUOTE="alexmurray"]Anyway we need bigger government, and universal health carealexmurray

What do you think the government should do about poverty. My worry is that there is no end to the control once universal health care hits. I myself, at least right now, am for a basic universal health care plan that would specifically be aimed towards children, (not a mandatory system) However, I am for some serious government reform in their poor spending habits before it takes place.

Yes we need to give aid to poorer people in the form of extra Food stamps, tax breaks and child aid

but we need proof that they need aid.

And look at other western nations with universal heath care, they don't have extremegovernment control

I have lived in other nations and it works, and if you don't like it, then buy health insurance

I can't really say whether it works or not. I have heard from smart people that it works. I have also heard from smart people that it is a failure, due to waiting lists and such. Michael Moore is for it though, so i am automatically disinclined to want it.

There is always a balance to be had.duxup

There is always a balance to be had.duxup

Care to offer any wisdom as to what that balance may be? I think the descision of big or small govt is one america is really having a hard time making or finding compromise for. It is also one of the most important fundamental issues that could affect our nations future. Nobody seems to be talking about it, though. Or where the compromise should be. I jsut don't want to end up like the giver.

[QUOTE="duxup"]There is always a balance to be had.superheromonkey

Care to offer any wisdom as to what that balance may be? I think the descision of big or small govt is one america is really having a hard time making or finding compromise for. It is also one of the most important fundamental issues that could affect our nations future. Nobody seems to be talking about it, though. Or where the compromise should be. I jsut don't want to end up like the giver.

It depends on the situation. You have to try things out, regulate this, see what happens, try not pulling back regulations, while if some other issue pops up do what you can to address that. The folks who think that everything will be ok if you just apply exact framework X are crazy.

[QUOTE="duxup"]There is always a balance to be had.Zcrimson07

If it helps, YOU'RE WRONG!

I think the government should primarily consist of a defense-based military, fire, police, and disability. Let the free market take care of most of the rest. All people should be able to act in any manner they so choose, so long as they don't infringe upon the life, liberty, or property of another person.famicommander

AN interesting idea, but if all education was privatized, what's to prevent corporate sponsors from influencing curriculums? As far as I see, you'd end up with a lot of really crappy watered down schools, and a few elite specialized schools where kids are sent at a young age to be something specific.

I mean, it'd be good if you want a country with no middle class. At least, that's my take on it, but I don't really have anything to support these theories so...

But still. Privatizing all education? That's scary.

of course small governments dont have much power so they would be easier to attack. thats what makes the united nations a good idea - they are all seperate governments but in a time of war they all stand up for each other and become much more powerful than a bunch of random individual countries.

as far as the governments involvement in its peoples lives - I personally am for the government staying out, unless it is an issue that presents a threat to the stability of the country itself.i used to agree with that. but i think about what people were like in america 50 years ago. they had very strong views on what should and shouldnt be done. since then a lot of those views have practically disappeared. lots of poeple do whatever they want for their own entertainment regardless of right and wrong. i think about what the world will be like 50 years from now if we continue to change this way and to tell the truth it kinda scares me sometimes. i think a very limited degree of censorship is not necessarily a bad thing.

[QUOTE="Zcrimson07"][QUOTE="duxup"]There is always a balance to be had.duxup

If it helps, YOU'RE WRONG!

[QUOTE="superheromonkey"]

[QUOTE="duxup"]There is always a balance to be had.duxup

Care to offer any wisdom as to what that balance may be? I think the descision of big or small govt is one america is really having a hard time making or finding compromise for. It is also one of the most important fundamental issues that could affect our nations future. Nobody seems to be talking about it, though. Or where the compromise should be. I jsut don't want to end up like the giver.

It depends on the situation. You have to try things out, regulate this, see what happens, try not pulling back regulations, while if some other issue pops up do what you can to address that. The folks who think that everything will be ok if you just apply exact framework X are crazy.

There will always be issues, though. If the government is the one responsible for fixing all of them, then there is no doubt that the government is going to control mostly everything. At first, they will most definitely do a good job solving all our problems. However, once the problem becomes the government is too powerful, it is too late, because the government isn't going to fix that one. At that point Ghengis Khan will invade and the American empire will end.

Small government.

I don't need the government interfering in my life, nor do I depend on the government to provide for me.

[QUOTE="duxup"][QUOTE="superheromonkey"]

[QUOTE="duxup"]There is always a balance to be had.superheromonkey

Care to offer any wisdom as to what that balance may be? I think the descision of big or small govt is one america is really having a hard time making or finding compromise for. It is also one of the most important fundamental issues that could affect our nations future. Nobody seems to be talking about it, though. Or where the compromise should be. I jsut don't want to end up like the giver.

It depends on the situation. You have to try things out, regulate this, see what happens, try not pulling back regulations, while if some other issue pops up do what you can to address that. The folks who think that everything will be ok if you just apply exact framework X are crazy.

There will always be issues, though. If the government is the one responsible for fixing all of them, then there is no doubt that the government is going to control mostly everything. At first, they will most definitely do a good job solving all our problems. However, once the problem becomes the government is too powerful, it is too late, because the government isn't going to fix that one. At that point Ghengis Khan will invade and the American empire will end.

That's why you evolve your approach, and for the record I didn't say they should regulate everything.

The folks who think the government will regulate everything I'm not sure have much sense of history either regarding the consequences of an economy without any regulation, or the fact that for the most part government regulation in general have been actively pealed back since the 1980s. Rather they act as if business regulation has been increasing.

I see no problem in government regulation and involvement in affairs. I'm not afraid of elected officials, I mean the worst comes to the worst, you can vote them out come election time if things really start going wrong.

They do represent the people after all.

I see no problem in government regulation and involvement in affairs. I'm not afraid of elected officials, I mean the worst comes to the worst, you can vote them out come election time if things really start going wrong.

They do represent the people after all.

allnamestaken

government represents the majority

[QUOTE="famicommander"]I think the government should primarily consist of a defense-based military, fire, police, and disability. Let the free market take care of most of the rest. All people should be able to act in any manner they so choose, so long as they don't infringe upon the life, liberty, or property of another person.Lockedge

AN interesting idea, but if all education was privatized, what's to prevent corporate sponsors from influencing curriculums? As far as I see, you'd end up with a lot of really crappy watered down schools, and a few elite specialized schools where kids are sent at a young age to be something specific.

I mean, it'd be good if you want a country with no middle class. At least, that's my take on it, but I don't really have anything to support these theories so...

But still. Privatizing all education? That's scary.

it's not scary...private schools have much higher ACT scores

[QUOTE="Lockedge"]

[QUOTE="famicommander"]I think the government should primarily consist of a defense-based military, fire, police, and disability. Let the free market take care of most of the rest. All people should be able to act in any manner they so choose, so long as they don't infringe upon the life, liberty, or property of another person.lilburtonboy748

AN interesting idea, but if all education was privatized, what's to prevent corporate sponsors from influencing curriculums? As far as I see, you'd end up with a lot of really crappy watered down schools, and a few elite specialized schools where kids are sent at a young age to be something specific.

I mean, it'd be good if you want a country with no middle class. At least, that's my take on it, but I don't really have anything to support these theories so...

But still. Privatizing all education? That's scary.

it's not scary...private schools have much higher ACT scores

Not everyone can pay for private school, would you suggest we not educate a large portion of society?

[QUOTE="lilburtonboy748"][QUOTE="Lockedge"]

[QUOTE="famicommander"]I think the government should primarily consist of a defense-based military, fire, police, and disability. Let the free market take care of most of the rest. All people should be able to act in any manner they so choose, so long as they don't infringe upon the life, liberty, or property of another person.duxup

AN interesting idea, but if all education was privatized, what's to prevent corporate sponsors from influencing curriculums? As far as I see, you'd end up with a lot of really crappy watered down schools, and a few elite specialized schools where kids are sent at a young age to be something specific.

I mean, it'd be good if you want a country with no middle class. At least, that's my take on it, but I don't really have anything to support these theories so...

But still. Privatizing all education? That's scary.

it's not scary...private schools have much higher ACT scores

Not everyone can pay for private school, would you suggest we not educate a large portion of society?

i say that there is no justification for the government taking my money and giving it to them...that's stealing..and it should be illegal.

[QUOTE="Lockedge"]

[QUOTE="famicommander"]I think the government should primarily consist of a defense-based military, fire, police, and disability. Let the free market take care of most of the rest. All people should be able to act in any manner they so choose, so long as they don't infringe upon the life, liberty, or property of another person.lilburtonboy748

AN interesting idea, but if all education was privatized, what's to prevent corporate sponsors from influencing curriculums? As far as I see, you'd end up with a lot of really crappy watered down schools, and a few elite specialized schools where kids are sent at a young age to be something specific.

I mean, it'd be good if you want a country with no middle class. At least, that's my take on it, but I don't really have anything to support these theories so...

But still. Privatizing all education? That's scary.

it's not scary...private schools have much higher ACT scores

Oh, for sure private schools nowadays are pretty ok in general. I'm just saying that if ALL education was privatized, it'd open the door for...influenced education. I'm just paranoid about education quality, that's all :P Also about people who wouldn't be able to afford education.

[QUOTE="duxup"]

Not everyone can pay for private school, would you suggest we not educate a large portion of society?

lilburtonboy748

i say that there is no justification for the government taking my money and giving it to them...that's stealing..and it should be illegal.

The economic impact of having a large portion of uneducated society would be far grater than some taxes.

Small government. The free market works.

As said by Thomas Jefferson:

"A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuit of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor and bread it has earned-this is the sum of a good government"

"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

"My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government."

"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not"

[QUOTE="lilburtonboy748"][QUOTE="Lockedge"]

[QUOTE="famicommander"]I think the government should primarily consist of a defense-based military, fire, police, and disability. Let the free market take care of most of the rest. All people should be able to act in any manner they so choose, so long as they don't infringe upon the life, liberty, or property of another person.duxup

AN interesting idea, but if all education was privatized, what's to prevent corporate sponsors from influencing curriculums? As far as I see, you'd end up with a lot of really crappy watered down schools, and a few elite specialized schools where kids are sent at a young age to be something specific.

I mean, it'd be good if you want a country with no middle class. At least, that's my take on it, but I don't really have anything to support these theories so...

But still. Privatizing all education? That's scary.

it's not scary...private schools have much higher ACT scores

Not everyone can pay for private school, would you suggest we not educate a large portion of society?

The problem with public education right now is that the money isn't attached to the student. This means that there's very little competition between schools. Teachers who are actually good at what they do and do their job are held back by the teachers who don't. The teacher union is also ruining education. It's almost impossible to fire a teacher.

It's a socialist system right now. IT DOESN'T WORK.

i dont like monopolies so the government should stay pretty small. the bigger the government the less they have to care about you.

and we have a big government and the rich have exactly what you said they wouldhave with a small government. if we have a small government corporations would most likely get nothing from tax dollars.

Anyway we need bigger government, and universal health carealexmurray

no we dont.

The problem with public education right now is that the money isn't attached to the student. This means that there's very little competition between schools. Teachers who are actually good at what they do and do their job are held back by the teachers who don't. The teacher union is also ruining education. It's almost impossible to fire a teacher.

It's a socialist system right now. IT DOESN'T WORK.

trix5817

What is the alternative?

[QUOTE="Zcrimson07"][QUOTE="alexmurray"][QUOTE="superheromonkey"]

[QUOTE="alexmurray"]Anyway we need bigger government, and universal health carealexmurray

What do you think the government should do about poverty. My worry is that there is no end to the control once universal health care hits. I myself, at least right now, am for a basic universal health care plan that would specifically be aimed towards children, (not a mandatory system) However, I am for some serious government reform in their poor spending habits before it takes place.

Yes we need to give aid to poorer people in the form of extra Food stamps, tax breaks and child aid

but we need proof that they need aid.

And look at other western nations with universal heath care, they don't have extremegovernment control

I have lived in other nations and it works, and if you don't like it, then buy health insurance

if they buy other health insurance then allow them to stop paying taxes on universal healthcare.the only reason health insurance is so high is because of crooked doctors charging you for things you dont use and the fact that we dont have the medical field competing for your business which drives prices up. if the doctors had to advertise prices do you think it would be so expensive?

I mean look at cosmetic surgery (includes laser eye) the prices keep going down. -waits for someone dumb enough to say BUT THOSE ARENT NECESSARRY!-

[QUOTE="trix5817"]

The problem with public education right now is that the money isn't attached to the student. This means that there's very little competition between schools. Teachers who are actually good at what they do and do their job are held back by the teachers who don't. The teacher union is also ruining education. It's almost impossible to fire a teacher.

It's a socialist system right now. IT DOESN'T WORK.

duxup

What is the alternative?

vouchers

[QUOTE="famicommander"]I think the government should primarily consist of a defense-based military, fire, police, and disability. Let the free market take care of most of the rest. All people should be able to act in any manner they so choose, so long as they don't infringe upon the life, liberty, or property of another person.Lockedge

AN interesting idea, but if all education was privatized, what's to prevent corporate sponsors from influencing curriculums? As far as I see, you'd end up with a lot of really crappy watered down schools, and a few elite specialized schools where kids are sent at a young age to be something specific.

I mean, it'd be good if you want a country with no middle class. At least, that's my take on it, but I don't really have anything to support these theories so...

But still. Privatizing all education? That's scary.

we already have crappy watered down education.

if you compete you have to make your customers happy. the government dosent care either way. ever goto the dmv? imagine how much better the dmv would be if it were private and just f illed out the liscense forms for you and SERVED you

I see no problem in government regulation and involvement in affairs. I'm not afraid of elected officials, I mean the worst comes to the worst, you can vote them out come election time if things really start going wrong.

They do represent the people after all.

allnamestaken

no they dont. you think bush represents people?

if anything business is either to deal with than government. You can just stop paying companya you cant just stop paying the government... well you can but youll probably get put in prison unless youre real slick about it

[QUOTE="lilburtonboy748"][QUOTE="Lockedge"]

[QUOTE="famicommander"]I think the government should primarily consist of a defense-based military, fire, police, and disability. Let the free market take care of most of the rest. All people should be able to act in any manner they so choose, so long as they don't infringe upon the life, liberty, or property of another person.duxup

AN interesting idea, but if all education was privatized, what's to prevent corporate sponsors from influencing curriculums? As far as I see, you'd end up with a lot of really crappy watered down schools, and a few elite specialized schools where kids are sent at a young age to be something specific.

I mean, it'd be good if you want a country with no middle class. At least, that's my take on it, but I don't really have anything to support these theories so...

But still. Privatizing all education? That's scary.

it's not scary...private schools have much higher ACT scores

Not everyone can pay for private school, would you suggest we not educate a large portion of society?

if they compete its cheaper.

if its voucher based then everyone can.

problem solved.

[QUOTE="alexmurray"]Anyway we need bigger government, and universal health careH8sMikeMoore

no we dont.

yea I never got peoples facination with Universal Health Care, Wait months even years for Surjury, All hospitals are overflowed so even for major injuries you have to wait and could die before they got you in. You have to plan things like check ups months in advanced. I'm sorry I'm happy with the current system.. I'd be all for the Gov't subsidizing Insurance companies though, it's alot cheaper..