Can we live without Conservatives?

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SonyNintendoFan

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#1 SonyNintendoFan
Member since 2010 • 527 Posts
Or do we need them as a sort of... Balance?
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Lonelynight

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#2 Lonelynight
Member since 2006 • 30051 Posts
depends on what kinds. We don't really need social conservatives.
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WhiteKnight77

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#3 WhiteKnight77
Member since 2003 • 12605 Posts

depends on what kinds. We don't really need social conservatives. Lonelynight

That could be turned around. It could be said that we do not need social liberals.

 

 

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Laihendi

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#4 Laihendi
Member since 2009 • 5872 Posts
If you do not recognize an individual's right to his life, including his right to the money he has earned for himself to sustain it, then you are socially authoritarian. Money and the mutual respect between individuals for each other's property, and the idea that trade should be matching value for value, rather than value for pity, value for need, or value for force, is a fundamental requirement for a free (liberal) society.
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tenaka2

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#5 tenaka2
Member since 2004 • 17958 Posts

I'm Greedy.Laihendi

 

We know.

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Palantas

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#6 Palantas
Member since 2002 • 15329 Posts

Maybe, maybe not, but we sure as hell don't need this thread.

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Rich3232

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#7 Rich3232
Member since 2012 • 2628 Posts

[QUOTE="Laihendi"]I'm Greedy.tenaka2

 

We know.

and he didn't even answer the question
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Laihendi

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#8 Laihendi
Member since 2009 • 5872 Posts

[QUOTE="Laihendi"]I'm Greedy.tenaka2

 

We know.

I wonder if you are intellectually capable of grasping my ideas, and of forming a meaningful response. I am guessing not.
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worlock77

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#9 worlock77
Member since 2009 • 22552 Posts

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"]I'm Greedy.Laihendi

 

We know.

I wonder if you are intellectually capable of grasping my ideas, and of forming a meaningful response. I am guessing not.

Everyone grasps your ideas alright. It's just that your ideas are so asinine that ridicule is pretty much the only appropriate response at this point.

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deactivated-5b1e62582e305

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#10 deactivated-5b1e62582e305
Member since 2004 • 30778 Posts

Yeah we can and should live without social conservatism. Such a toxic and disgusting ideology.

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Retro_Future

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#11 Retro_Future
Member since 2013 • 118 Posts
No. We can live without people, on both sides of the aisle, so steadfast in their ideology where compromise or the idea of compromise is seen as treasonous or immoral.
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BossPerson

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#12 BossPerson
Member since 2011 • 9177 Posts

Yeah we can and should live without social conservatism. Such a toxic and disgusting ideology.

Aljosa23
things are great the way they are!! Social progress is evil!!
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hoola

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#13 hoola
Member since 2004 • 6422 Posts

I think we can live without the conservatives (and liberals) who want to enforce their ideas on everyone else using the federal government.  

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Barbariser

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#14 Barbariser
Member since 2009 • 6785 Posts

Ideally, political discourse would be based on rationally examining things on a case-by-case basis and figuring out which ones are beneficial and which ones are not. In reality, what we have is groups of people using general axioms (in the case of liberals, what is the status quo is bad, and and in the case of conservatives, what is the status quo is good) to decide since people can't possible figure out each and every single policy decision by themselves.

Liberals can and can be wrong on things, like the idea that strengthening trade unions makes workers better off overall (this only works in cases where labour markets are imperfect, which is not the case in most nations) or passing restrictions on random parts of guns in an attempt to reduce the crime rate. So yes, we need conservatives, even if they have proven to be utterly terrible at certain important aspects of government, because allowing any political idealogy to run roughshod over all decision-making processes will definitely not get you an optimal result.


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mindstorm

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#15 mindstorm
Member since 2003 • 15255 Posts
Personally speaking, without them I would have trouble existing.
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Netherscourge

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#16 Netherscourge
Member since 2003 • 16364 Posts

We CAN live without Religious Conservatives, that much is certain.

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moneymatterz

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#17 moneymatterz
Member since 2004 • 1139 Posts

Thread title sounds like a wet dream for many on OT. Should be entertaining as more posts accumulate.

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deactivated-59d151f079814

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#18 deactivated-59d151f079814
Member since 2003 • 47239 Posts

I think we can live without the conservatives (and liberals) who want to enforce their ideas on everyone else using the federal government.  

hoola

:|  Every one wants their policies enforced.. It is why we vote for representatives with messages we agree with..   That being said I would be fine if extremes from both sides would disappear.. The problem with this is atm the conservative side has been taken over by the extreme edges of that spectrum atm... 

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Slow_Show

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#19 Slow_Show
Member since 2011 • 2018 Posts

A world without conservatives?

tumblr_ltbtgjU70B1qztjn5o1_500.jpg

*Shudders*

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moneymatterz

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#20 moneymatterz
Member since 2004 • 1139 Posts

[QUOTE="hoola"]

I think we can live without the conservatives (and liberals) who want to enforce their ideas on everyone else using the federal government.  

sSubZerOo

:|  Every one wants their policies enforced.. It is why we vote for representatives with messages we agree with..   That being said I would be fine if extremes from both sides would disappear.. The problem with this is atm the conservative side has been taken over by the extreme edges of that spectrum atm... 

that's funny. you're one of the more extreme members of Liberal leaning.

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dave123321

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#21 dave123321
Member since 2003 • 35554 Posts
no
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deactivated-59d151f079814

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#22 deactivated-59d151f079814
Member since 2003 • 47239 Posts

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="hoola"]

I think we can live without the conservatives (and liberals) who want to enforce their ideas on everyone else using the federal government.  

moneymatterz

:|  Every one wants their policies enforced.. It is why we vote for representatives with messages we agree with..   That being said I would be fine if extremes from both sides would disappear.. The problem with this is atm the conservative side has been taken over by the extreme edges of that spectrum atm... 

that's funny. you're one of the more extreme members of Liberal leaning.

    Well yeah it woudl appear that way to some one like you.  I hope your still thanking Jesus every day that Obama won.

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Yusuke420

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#23 Yusuke420
Member since 2012 • 2770 Posts

Yes, that way I can finally smoke pot in peace. Also we wouldn't have to deal with "controversy" like gay marriage and abortion. I have a quesion for the conservatives, why? What do you gain my fighting things like gay marriage and abortion? Those choices should be left up to the individuals and for some reason that clashes with conservatives (who talk about states rights all the time).

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deactivated-59d151f079814

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#24 deactivated-59d151f079814
Member since 2003 • 47239 Posts

Yes, that way I can finally smoke pot in peace. Also we wouldn't have to deal with "controversy" like gay marriage and abortion. I have a quesion for the conservatives, why? What do you gain my fighting things like gay marriage and abortion? Those choices should be left up to the individuals and for some reason that clashes with conservatives (who talk about states rights all the time).

Yusuke420

  Uh the war on drugs have been supported by both sides.. 

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Retro_Future

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#25 Retro_Future
Member since 2013 • 118 Posts

Yes, that way I can finally smoke pot in peace. Also we wouldn't have to deal with "controversy" like gay marriage and abortion. I have a quesion for the conservatives, why? What do you gain my fighting things like gay marriage and abortion? Those choices should be left up to the individuals and for some reason that clashes with conservatives (who talk about states rights all the time).

Yusuke420
A lot of the objections from conservatives over gay marriage and abortion stem from religious and moral stances.
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moneymatterz

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#26 moneymatterz
Member since 2004 • 1139 Posts

[QUOTE="moneymatterz"]

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

:|  Every one wants their policies enforced.. It is why we vote for representatives with messages we agree with..   That being said I would be fine if extremes from both sides would disappear.. The problem with this is atm the conservative side has been taken over by the extreme edges of that spectrum atm... 

sSubZerOo

that's funny. you're one of the more extreme members of Liberal leaning.

    Well yeah it woudl appear that way to some one like you.

Nope, even against other Libs on this board, you stand out as an extremist. 

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moneymatterz

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#27 moneymatterz
Member since 2004 • 1139 Posts

Yes, that way I can finally smoke pot in peace. Also we wouldn't have to deal with "controversy" like gay marriage and abortion. I have a quesion for the conservatives, why? What do you gain my fighting things like gay marriage and abortion? Those choices should be left up to the individuals and for some reason that clashes with conservatives (who talk about states rights all the time).

Yusuke420

By being against abortion, it allows people like you to have a chance at life despite whether or not you deserve it. It also reinforces personal responsibility and therefore the social contract. Seems pretty logical.

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Yusuke420

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#28 Yusuke420
Member since 2012 • 2770 Posts

[QUOTE="Yusuke420"]

Yes, that way I can finally smoke pot in peace. Also we wouldn't have to deal with "controversy" like gay marriage and abortion. I have a quesion for the conservatives, why? What do you gain my fighting things like gay marriage and abortion? Those choices should be left up to the individuals and for some reason that clashes with conservatives (who talk about states rights all the time).

sSubZerOo

  Uh the war on drugs have been supported by both sides.. 

You must still think democrates are progressives, how cute :P. If it was up to me right now Gary Johnson would be POTUS.

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deactivated-59d151f079814

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#29 deactivated-59d151f079814
Member since 2003 • 47239 Posts

[QUOTE="Yusuke420"]

Yes, that way I can finally smoke pot in peace. Also we wouldn't have to deal with "controversy" like gay marriage and abortion. I have a quesion for the conservatives, why? What do you gain my fighting things like gay marriage and abortion? Those choices should be left up to the individuals and for some reason that clashes with conservatives (who talk about states rights all the time).

moneymatterz

By being against abortion, it allows people like you to have a chance at life despite whether or not you deserve it. It also reinforces personal responsibility and therefore the social contract. Seems pretty logical.

........  Ah yes, so where does pregenacy caused by rape fit in your social contract?

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DaBrainz

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#30 DaBrainz
Member since 2007 • 7959 Posts
The US version of conservatives in the federal government, we would be better off without them. If we ever had conservatives that actually supported a smaller more responsible government that didn't lie about 90% of what they say then we would also be better off.
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moneymatterz

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#31 moneymatterz
Member since 2004 • 1139 Posts

[QUOTE="moneymatterz"]

[QUOTE="Yusuke420"]

Yes, that way I can finally smoke pot in peace. Also we wouldn't have to deal with "controversy" like gay marriage and abortion. I have a quesion for the conservatives, why? What do you gain my fighting things like gay marriage and abortion? Those choices should be left up to the individuals and for some reason that clashes with conservatives (who talk about states rights all the time).

sSubZerOo

By being against abortion, it allows people like you to have a chance at life despite whether or not you deserve it. It also reinforces personal responsibility and therefore the social contract. Seems pretty logical.

........  Ah yes, so where does pregenacy caused by rape fit in your social contract?

rape baby might become a high income taxpayer one day. or they can serve as posterchild of some future propoganda piece.

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Yusuke420

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#32 Yusuke420
Member since 2012 • 2770 Posts

[QUOTE="Yusuke420"]

Yes, that way I can finally smoke pot in peace. Also we wouldn't have to deal with "controversy" like gay marriage and abortion. I have a quesion for the conservatives, why? What do you gain my fighting things like gay marriage and abortion? Those choices should be left up to the individuals and for some reason that clashes with conservatives (who talk about states rights all the time).

moneymatterz

By being against abortion, it allows people like you to have a chance at life despite whether or not you deserve it. It also reinforces personal responsibility and therefore the social contract. Seems pretty logical.

Abortion is the last resort, not the rule! It's not like people want to have abortions as sometype of designer fad. In most cases a child would be born into a unstable household or thrown into our very flawed adoption system. It should be left up to the individual to decide what they do with the result of their sexual activities, You say it enforces personal responsibilty, but not really. They could just leave the baby at a fire station without any consequences. 

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deactivated-59d151f079814

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#33 deactivated-59d151f079814
Member since 2003 • 47239 Posts

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="moneymatterz"]

By being against abortion, it allows people like you to have a chance at life despite whether or not you deserve it. It also reinforces personal responsibility and therefore the social contract. Seems pretty logical.

moneymatterz

........  Ah yes, so where does pregenacy caused by rape fit in your social contract?

rape baby might become a high income taxpayer one day. or they can serve as posterchild of some future propoganda piece.

 And your willing to pay the mother of this child for the treatment not just from the child but the trauma from the act as well as the birth?

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Retro_Future

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#34 Retro_Future
Member since 2013 • 118 Posts

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="Yusuke420"]

Yes, that way I can finally smoke pot in peace. Also we wouldn't have to deal with "controversy" like gay marriage and abortion. I have a quesion for the conservatives, why? What do you gain my fighting things like gay marriage and abortion? Those choices should be left up to the individuals and for some reason that clashes with conservatives (who talk about states rights all the time).

Yusuke420

  Uh the war on drugs have been supported by both sides.. 

You must still think democrates are progressives, how cute :P. If it was up to me right now Gary Johnson would be POTUS.

They're not. There is a progressive wing/caucus to the Democratic Party. The War on Drugs will continue to be a bottomless pit that we dump taxpayer and borrowed money into. Politicians are too concerned over the loss of political capital to attempt to offer serious suggestions to remedy this portion of our fiscal nightmare.
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tenaka2

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#35 tenaka2
Member since 2004 • 17958 Posts

Personally speaking, without them I would have trouble existing.mindstorm

You manage fine without Jesus :P

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moneymatterz

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#36 moneymatterz
Member since 2004 • 1139 Posts

[QUOTE="moneymatterz"]

[QUOTE="Yusuke420"]

Yes, that way I can finally smoke pot in peace. Also we wouldn't have to deal with "controversy" like gay marriage and abortion. I have a quesion for the conservatives, why? What do you gain my fighting things like gay marriage and abortion? Those choices should be left up to the individuals and for some reason that clashes with conservatives (who talk about states rights all the time).

Yusuke420

By being against abortion, it allows people like you to have a chance at life despite whether or not you deserve it. It also reinforces personal responsibility and therefore the social contract. Seems pretty logical.

Abortion is the last resort, not the rule! It's not like people want to have abortions as sometype of designer fad. In most cases a child would be born into a unstable household or thrown into our very flawed adoption system. It should be left up to the individual to decide what they do with the result of their sexual activities, You say it enforces personal responsibilty, but not really. They could just leave the baby at a fire station without any consequences. 

Nope, too bad. I'd rather give all pukes a chance to live. If they turn out to be foul beings then we'd eradicate them through the dealth penalty. And yep...personal responsibility would be enforced in that it'll change the behavior of the parent(s) from that point on.

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moneymatterz

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#37 moneymatterz
Member since 2004 • 1139 Posts

[QUOTE="moneymatterz"]

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

........  Ah yes, so where does pregenacy caused by rape fit in your social contract?

sSubZerOo

rape baby might become a high income taxpayer one day. or they can serve as posterchild of some future propoganda piece.

 And your willing to pay the mother of this child for the treatment not just from the child but the trauma from the act as well as the birth?

Absolutely. It's like a backdoor way of increasing taxes (by taking a gamble that rape baby will earn tons). And if rape baby doesn't earn a lot then we can use the story of their traumatic childhood to ban rape or fluff out some other propoganda piece.

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dave123321

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#38 dave123321
Member since 2003 • 35554 Posts

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="moneymatterz"]

rape baby might become a high income taxpayer one day. or they can serve as posterchild of some future propoganda piece.

moneymatterz

 And your willing to pay the mother of this child for the treatment not just from the child but the trauma from the act as well as the birth?

Absolutely. It's like a backdoor way of increasing taxes (by taking a gamble that rape baby will earn tons). And if rape baby doesn't earn a lot then we can use the story of their traumatic childhood to ban rape or fluff out some other propoganda piece.

Don't like that the kid is now becoming an object of politics
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theone86

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#39 theone86
Member since 2003 • 22669 Posts

No to the first, yes to the second, but we could certainly do with fewer, at least in the U.S.  At the very least conservatism needs to lose its status as the sort of default position for "sensible" Americans.

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deactivated-5901ac91d8e33

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#40 deactivated-5901ac91d8e33
Member since 2004 • 17092 Posts
Óf course we could live without American social conservatives (or should I say fascists?).
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comp_atkins

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#41 comp_atkins
Member since 2005 • 38934 Posts
a balance is needed. but so if the mentality that compromise is not a crime
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Jebus213

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#42 Jebus213
Member since 2010 • 10056 Posts

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="moneymatterz"]

rape baby might become a high income taxpayer one day. or they can serve as posterchild of some future propoganda piece.

moneymatterz

 And your willing to pay the mother of this child for the treatment not just from the child but the trauma from the act as well as the birth?

Absolutely. It's like a backdoor way of increasing taxes (by taking a gamble that rape baby will earn tons). And if rape baby doesn't earn a lot then we can use the story of their traumatic childhood to ban rape or fluff out some other propoganda piece.

What you're saying is more disgusting then a woman asking for an abortion because she was simply being a whore...
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worlock77

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#43 worlock77
Member since 2009 • 22552 Posts

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="moneymatterz"]

rape baby might become a high income taxpayer one day. or they can serve as posterchild of some future propoganda piece.

moneymatterz

 And your willing to pay the mother of this child for the treatment not just from the child but the trauma from the act as well as the birth?

Absolutely. It's like a backdoor way of increasing taxes (by taking a gamble that rape baby will earn tons). And if rape baby doesn't earn a lot then we can use the story of their traumatic childhood to ban rape or fluff out some other propoganda piece.

Goddamn, you're starting to make Laihendi look intelligent.

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deactivated-59d151f079814

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#44 deactivated-59d151f079814
Member since 2003 • 47239 Posts

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="moneymatterz"]

rape baby might become a high income taxpayer one day. or they can serve as posterchild of some future propoganda piece.

moneymatterz

 And your willing to pay the mother of this child for the treatment not just from the child but the trauma from the act as well as the birth?

Absolutely. It's like a backdoor way of increasing taxes (by taking a gamble that rape baby will earn tons). And if rape baby doesn't earn a lot then we can use the story of their traumatic childhood to ban rape or fluff out some other propoganda piece.

  The hell?   This is some fvcked up logic.. First you make it sound like rape isn't illegal to begin with, then you act like THIS is the most pressing concern why rape should be illegal.. Because might bring a person to life that doesn't meet your standards.. Not because its a violent act that invades a person's privacy and assaults them against their will scarring them for life.. Wtf is wrong with you?  And you call me extreme?

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moneymatterz

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#45 moneymatterz
Member since 2004 • 1139 Posts

[QUOTE="moneymatterz"]

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

 And your willing to pay the mother of this child for the treatment not just from the child but the trauma from the act as well as the birth?

Jebus213

Absolutely. It's like a backdoor way of increasing taxes (by taking a gamble that rape baby will earn tons). And if rape baby doesn't earn a lot then we can use the story of their traumatic childhood to ban rape or fluff out some other propoganda piece.

What you're saying is more disgusting then a woman asking for an abortion because she was simply being a whore...

What's disgusting? My last few posts can be summed up as .....We should ban abortion because:

  • potential for rape babies to contribute boatloads in taxes
  • can use rape baby stories to advance our agendas (we'd manipulate public perception so we can pass knee-jerk legislation)
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moneymatterz

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#46 moneymatterz
Member since 2004 • 1139 Posts

[QUOTE="moneymatterz"]

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

 And your willing to pay the mother of this child for the treatment not just from the child but the trauma from the act as well as the birth?

sSubZerOo

Absolutely. It's like a backdoor way of increasing taxes (by taking a gamble that rape baby will earn tons). And if rape baby doesn't earn a lot then we can use the story of their traumatic childhood to ban rape or fluff out some other propoganda piece.

  The hell?   This is some fvcked up logic.. First you make it sound like rape isn't illegal to begin with, then you act like THIS is the most pressing concern why rape should be illegal.. Because might bring a person to life that doesn't meet your standards.. Not because its a violent act that invades a person's privacy and assaults them against their will scarring them for life.. Wtf is wrong with you?  And you call me extreme?

I don't know what the hell you are talking about. I'm talking about why we should outlaw abortions...

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surrealnumber5

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#47 surrealnumber5
Member since 2008 • 23044 Posts
"liberals" and "conservatives" are both dangerously underdeveloped, both ideologies dont know how to balance a budget, so both do nothing but damage.
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Rich3232

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#48 Rich3232
Member since 2012 • 2628 Posts

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="moneymatterz"]

By being against abortion, it allows people like you to have a chance at life despite whether or not you deserve it. It also reinforces personal responsibility and therefore the social contract. Seems pretty logical.

moneymatterz

........  Ah yes, so where does pregenacy caused by rape fit in your social contract?

rape baby might become a high income taxpayer one day. or they can serve as posterchild of some future propoganda piece.

Rofl. This is a "christian," people.
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Fightingfan

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#49 Fightingfan
Member since 2010 • 38011 Posts
Yes we need them. Liberals don't know how to make money -- look at california.
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Rich3232

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#50 Rich3232
Member since 2012 • 2628 Posts
[QUOTE="Fightingfan"]Yes we need them. Liberals don't know how to make money -- look at california.

Neither do Conservatives. The poorest states with the ones most heavily dependent on welfare services are predominantly red states. In fact, the red states leech off of states like California wrt to federal tax refunds.