Sorry for the long post. If it is too long then just go, that's fine. I have reached a critical point. I am not panicking but i am going to have to make some very important decisions.
In my country in europe it is mandatory to carry Your ID 24/7. To get a new chipped ID You need to give them Your fingerprints. This will be official in a few weeks time. Without ID You cannot take part in voting and cannot leave the country. They chip patients who cannot communicate, without approval with a Verichip. They use Musquito sound systems to drive young people away from spots where they are not wanted. It emits an annoying high tone that only young people are supposed to hear. Imo that is unacceptable since not every young person wants to do wrong, but it is a perfect example of their way of thinking. Soon they will take drug tests on drivers and are building a DNA database. I wonder what will happen when they find out more about what DNA says about You?
In the UK they have started the CCTV surveillance system. They use advanced face recognition software to easily track people and (will soon?) have directional microphones to pick up Your conversations and speakers to command people on the street.
These camera's are also appearing in cities near me.
I have about 1 and a half year left to leave this country, since by then i don't have a valid passport no more. And i do not know where to go, since around me the same things seem to happen. All i know is i can barely stand what is happening around me.
Nobody has asked for those things, they were never necessary and the reason they were implemented (security) is either a lie or a failure. The experts have said RFID is easily copied and its information easy to extract. The passports are less secure than they were before. CCTV has done almost nothing though the media are sure to blow every success out of proportion. Fingerprint payments have been forged within days, even the fingerprint of minister of defense in germany was used to show that the system does not work. These things are pushed into laws through rather obscure means. In the case of fingerprints it was not even a european decision, but it was pressed from the usa.
It seems like 9 11, and the metro bombs, we allow the governments to do as they please under the veil of security. Who is in control now? Am i still living in a democracy? I do not believe so anymore. What should pass for a democracy are a few parties disagreeing with one another about everything but in the end they still secure their position without the people keeping an eye on it.
The state here no longer focuses on correcting criminals, but they are increasingly treating everyone as a criminal. Even if i would not believe that our location, interests, votes, etc are none of their business, i cannot help but notice that the balance of power between state and citizens is shifting at an incredible rate. They cannot handle the valuable information either. UK government for example lost 2000 dna samples of criminals, and any person can get a job watching CCTV footage.
I have recently seen an experiment here with a potentially dangerous vaccination for 14 year old girls. The experts had a lot of doubts. The government made it optional to take it, but did not portray the risks and only the intended outcome. Everyone as far as i could tell took it, without questioning it. The people no longer question and are too careless or preprogrammed to protest. The responses i get from the people on the street are scaring me. They do not question the authority and agree with anything they do, without being able to give good reasons. The experts are ignored, the media is obeyed. I have the feeling that the people have lost this country, given it away. That and the idea that some day it might be too late to leave, since the people will accept any restrictions and rules, make we want to leave.
Am i overreacting? Because i do not understand that people are so uninterested about this? Do You recognise some of this where You live? Do You know what to do? Any advice is welcome.
Concerned about freedom, feeling threatened.
This topic is locked from further discussion.
I agree with you, the goverment is collecting more and more information about us. Even though we havent't done anything, this is very dangerous. I dont like the idea aswell. If you are dutch speaking, there is a very nice video about this online.
What can we do about this? Nothing really, yeah move away to another country. We dont know what they use our information for, or who has acces to it. Soon they know everything about us, where we are, what we do, what we like etc. I am afraid of this aswell.
[QUOTE="Lilyanne46"]I to am scared after reading that. It should not be allowed:? No no it is not that scary. I am just concerned that is all. By the direction this seems to be heading in, and especially by opinions of the people around me. That is all. If You live in a country with sane people, they could stick together and say no to any of those things.I'm scared from reading that. :(
optiow
By the way, another reason why this is not scary is a rather twisted Benjamin Franklin quote: "They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
If the people don't really value their freedom then i think it's not so bad if they lose it.
The only thing is, i don't really want to be part of it, but i just don't know what i'm going to do about it?
CCTV is actually a very good thing. Football violence has been pretty much stomped out, and loads of people were arrested recently for drunken fighting in Oldham the following day (Oldham having the single most recorded alcohol related crime per square foot in England or some other demerit along those lines).
By the way, another reason why this is not scary is a rather twisted Benjamin Franklin quote: "They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
If the people don't really value their freedom then i think it's not so bad if they lose it.
The only thing is, i don't really want to be part of it, but i just don't know what i'm going to do about it?KungfuKitten
Freedom is entirely subjective on that front. The governments in most countries just want to prevent crime.
Yeah i heard it reduced crime by about 3% or so? Mostly littering i think. Even if it is significant (i question whether those people wouldn't have been arrested without cctv, but it could very well be significant) i rather want them to invest those gazillions into finding less privacy breaching ways to investigate crimes.CCTV is actually a very good thing. Football violence has been pretty much stomped out, and loads of people were arrested recently for drunken fighting in Oldham the following day (Oldham having the single most recorded alcohol related crime per square foot in England or some other demerit along those lines).
Leejjohno
I'm certainly not saying that it doesn't work AT ALL, and i'm sure they're more than happy to show off their successes all over the country. I'm saying that it's heading us into the danger zone especially the way the people just let it all happen like they have no choice.
I feel much less comfortable with all those camera's than without them.
Actually, come to think of it, it's not just that. There are so many new laws being made that increasingly dive into the details of our lives, that i feel increasingly worried and afraid that by doing something i might break rules. Lets just say i don't feel free anymore, that's for sure.
Yeah i heard it reduced crime by about 3% or so? Mostly littering i think. Even if it is significant (i question whether those people wouldn't have been arrested without cctv, but it could very well be significant) i rather want them to invest those gazillions into finding less privacy breaching ways to investigate crimes.[QUOTE="Leejjohno"]
CCTV is actually a very good thing. Football violence has been pretty much stomped out, and loads of people were arrested recently for drunken fighting in Oldham the following day (Oldham having the single most recorded alcohol related crime per square foot in England or some other demerit along those lines).
KungfuKitten
I'm certainly not saying that it doesn't work AT ALL, and i'm sure they're more than happy to show off their successes all over the country. I'm saying that it's heading us into the danger zone especially the way the people just let it all happen like they have no choice.
I feel much less comfortable with all those camera's than without them.
If the city ends up looking like the one in Mirrors Edge I wont complain. Just be glad the Government is doing something.
If the city ends up looking like the one in Mirrors Edge I wont complain. Just be glad the Government is doing something.You mean the slick clean white skyscraper city look :P I'm looking at some images, it does look rather nice i have to admit. Know what, let them do that in the UK and not here, and i'll visit some time to take some pictures. If that is still allowed by then, of course.Leejjohno
Probably my last post.
I still don't understand why people aren't trying to figure out what to do. Am i wrong about this, isn't it obvious what is happening? Am i being so paranoid then? What is stopping them from doing whatever they want? When i ask people they are uninterested or have no idea. What is going on?
To add to my opening post. I am very new to these political things so i am very amazed by some of the things i find.
For example i heard about the anti-blasphemy law introduced in Ireland with a 25.000 fine (it was introduced because it should have been before, and changing that fact would have cost them money). Then i have to ask, why did You intend it to be a 100.000 fine first? It's like moonwalking through time.
Another good one is the Free Speech Zone in the USA, cursing gets You an 80 pound fine under the Public Order Act in the UK, ISP's are censoring sites for no apparent reason or benefit and one in my country informed my friend that his torrent was tracked by police (thanks for that, but they shouldn't know this), there are tests in the UK going on with biometric checks when entering dance clubs, and infrared camcopters with artifical nose to find drugplantations. The police have random metal detectors set up for pedestrians to make sure they don't hurt themselves with a pointy object and on top of everything else they will force You to take 200 in depth personal questions during an interview when wanting Your first passport.
There are also the upcoming chipped drivers license and cars, but that seems like nothing now, i guess.
Last but not least police is sometimes stopping people from taking pictures or movies in public (kind of ironic) but as is shown in many video's online You are allowed to anyway. And when You resist for half an hour they usually bugger off. So they are just trying to scare You. I thought police was meant to help You instead, as a public servant. They seem more like a state servant these days.
So basically what i get from this, is they don't trust the people that elected them.
Things like that will eventually become the norm in all developed countries and there are probably such practices although not as severe where I live. However, for the moment I can say I am very glad I do not live where you do. That sounds like a very oppressive existence.
ISP's are censoring sites for no apparent reason or benefit and one in my country informed my friend that his torrent was tracked by police (thanks for that, but they shouldn't know this), there are tests in the UK going on with biometric checks when entering dance clubs, and infrared camcopters with artifical nose to find drugplantations. KungfuKittenThere's also phorm which monitors all the sites you look at to direct advertising at you. Oh and the US are worse with the drugs war, they send crop sprayers over South American drug plantations to poison the plants which destroys the farmer's livelihoods.
Governments are made to limit freedom. Meejoe27Yes. It all depends how much of that freedom that they limit, and that's a serious issue with today's government.
No no it is not that scary. I am just concerned that is all. By the direction this seems to be heading in, and especially by opinions of the people around me. That is all. If You live in a country with sane people, they could stick together and say no to any of those things.KungfuKittenThose people who say "No" are often called crazy here in the US. :lol: Then again the US doesn't differentiate from policies and presidents. If they like a President they seem to automatically like any policy that is brought forth (whether it is even by the President or not) under his term in office. I have to say I was concerned when I learned about the Patriot Act under Bush (I was too young to care at the time it was proposed). Not that I think the US is going to be heading that direction any time soon, but it seems like world governments are all leaning that way at this time, and I'm not exactly sure why unless the people specifically want such a change. If they do then that's fine I guess, but there's certain boundaries that I don't think should be overstepped.
"Freedom" is a bit of a misnomer. Freedom to do anything would be anarchy, which is why we have laws and regulations to limit for the benefit of the majority. I see no problem in giving DNA samples and having lots of CCTV since I haven't and don't do anything illegal.AirGuitarist87
I didn't see a problem either, until maybe a year ago. I thought about it and realized that consistently they want You to answer the way You just did: How hard is it to give them that information? Not hard at all! It's very easy, so no problem.
Well we do have a problem. The real question they don't want You to ask is: How much power am i giving them over us, and is it worth it? By not even asking ourselves that question (You didn't and i didn't either) we are basically handing over these countries to the governments. That doesn't sound frightening because our government seems so trustworthy. What about their successors?
For example, if money gets digital. And they could easily get that done with some propaganda since nobody protests. Then they could select people of which they know will vote against them and make sure their information is published, shut down their chip and mark them as terrorists. They can't vote, can't leave the country and don't get access to their money. You shut them out of society.
Who is going to do anything about that? Well nobody of course, because we all don't want our information going public, and we don't want to lose our money and our rights so we just do as they say. In fact, most of us won't even believe anything is wrong. Since all the information we get is through them. Who are You going to trust. A terrorist gang or the police? I'm just saying, we shouldn't be so naïve to think that we can trust the government with everything. Because if, big IF, one day it goes wrong, then surely it is too late to do anything about it.
Even if the government remains trustworthy i have a problem with the attitude of the people and the direction we are heading to. What exactly is the gain for us? The RFID/DNA/etc will be way more useful to criminals than officials. The ideas of fingerprints, cctv and rfid have been abused before they were in use. Now people can see more easily when You are at home or not. They can see what can be seen and what not. There is an increase in identity theft since rfid. In the end nobody can explain why the situation would improve over what we had before. In the end all that happened is that we turned in ourselves to the governments without gaining. But the people don't even QUESTION it. Nothing, nada, they all comply. That's what scares me.
You can't change anything now, but you can adapt. Try to understand superficial behavior (whilst not loosing sight of your true ambitions)and maybe you won't frett so much.
My advice is go to a nice nightclub with a ladyfriend and just dance. Everything will be okay.
[QUOTE="AirGuitarist87"]"Freedom" is a bit of a misnomer. Freedom to do anything would be anarchy, which is why we have laws and regulations to limit for the benefit of the majority. I see no problem in giving DNA samples and having lots of CCTV since I haven't and don't do anything illegal.KungfuKitten
I didn't see a problem either, until maybe a year ago. I thought about it and realized that consistently they want You to answer the way You just did: How hard is it to give them that information? Not hard at all! It's very easy, so no problem.
Well we do have a problem. The real question they don't want You to ask is: How much power am i giving them over us, and is it worth it? By not even asking ourselves that question (You didn't and i didn't either) we are basically handing over these countries to the governments. That doesn't sound frightening because our government seems so trustworthy. What about their successors?
For example, if money gets digital. And they could easily get that done with some propaganda since nobody protests. Then they could select people of which they know will vote against them and make sure their information is published, shut down their chip and mark them as terrorists. They can't vote, can't leave the country and don't get access to their money. You shut them out of society.
Who is going to do anything about that? Well nobody of course, because we all don't want our information going public, and we don't want to lose our money and our rights so we just do as they say. In fact, most of us won't even believe anything is wrong. Since all the information we get is through them. Who are You going to trust. A terrorist gang or the police? I'm just saying, we shouldn't be so naïve to think that we can trust the government with everything. Because if, big IF, one day it goes wrong, then surely it is too late to do anything about it.
Even if the government remains trustworthy i have a problem with the attitude of the people and the direction we are heading to. What exactly is the gain for us? The RFID/DNA/etc will be way more useful to criminals than officials. The ideas of fingerprints, cctv and rfid have been abused before they were in use. Now people can see more easily when You are at home or not. They can see what can be seen and what not. There is an increase in identity theft since rfid. In the end nobody can explain why the situation would improve over what we had before. In the end all that happened is that we turned in ourselves to the governments without gaining. But the people don't even QUESTION it. Nothing, nada, they all comply. That's what scares me.
I have asked myself that question. And I repeat, it doesn't bother me because I'm not doing anything illegal.
I don't get the "digital money" thing. Money can already be accessed and transfered with credit/debit cards and online. The government can, through a thorough police investigation and co-operation with banks, freeze bank accounts. The system set up in this and many other countries is based around the Separation of Powers, which makes the example you gave impossible unless everyone in authority inside and outside the government agreed to work together to shut down specific accounts. Even if that happened, the UN and EU would certainly have many words to have with us. There are too many governing bodies watching governing bodies for that to actually happen, at least in this lifetime.
I once saw a Wright Stuff panel talking about the government collective DNA and someone said "What if criminals or terrorists got hold of that information?" and I asked the exact same question to myself. What the hell would they use it for? It would take several weeks for (rogue) scientists to find out that I have brown hair. A lot of what you're saying is very much a "what if..." worst-case scenario.
Please Log In to post.
Log in to comment