consider how liberal, or open minded, the world has become in the last 50 yrs:

and now consider how much more conservative, or old fashioned, baby boomers are in comparison to their children (which i would assume is like 90% of the people on this board)

i feel like religion in the world, if not only the west, will be almost non existant by like 2050.

thoughts?

I don't see religion going away. I see less people believing in it, but not going away.

i feel like religion in the world, if not only the west, will be almost non existant by like 2050.

thoughts?

IronBeaver

I don't see religion ever going away. Simply because the world is becoming open-minded, doesn't mean religion is going away either. I'm very religious and also have always had an open mind. I had an open mind (being an Agnostic) and I still have an open mind (being religious).

Being liberal doesn't mean you're more open minded; not even close. However, it is that misunderstanding which will be responsible for the outcome you've mentioned, whether good or bad. By that time we'll probably butt heads with our children about these same matters anyways.

hm... well i hope it dies.

All it takes is one famine, disease, or disaster and faith is back on top baby. Vandalvideo

Or, like the European Plague, almost drops to the bottom..

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"]All it takes is one famine, disease, or disaster and faith is back on top baby. taj7575

Or, like the European Plague, almost drops to the bottom..

[QUOTE="taj7575"]

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"]All it takes is one famine, disease, or disaster and faith is back on top baby. Vandalvideo

Or, like the European Plague, almost drops to the bottom..

Or the fact that people were sitting there begging for a diety, while everyone was dying or dead..

Or the fact that people were sitting there begging for a diety, while everyone was dying or dead..taj7575

[QUOTE="taj7575"]Or the fact that people were sitting there begging for a diety, while everyone was dying or dead..Vandalvideo

In simple terms: They were begging for a God, people were still dying, so they said **** it.

Easy?

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="taj7575"]Or the fact that people were sitting there begging for a diety, while everyone was dying or dead..taj7575

In simple terms: They were begging for a God, people were still dying, so they said **** it.

Easy?

Humans have a psychological need for religion.Pariahdox

[QUOTE="taj7575"]

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"] Begging for deity = resurgence of faith. :)Vandalvideo

In simple terms: They were begging for a God, people were still dying, so they said **** it.

Easy?

Well..How does that not make sence? Before the plague, almost everyone was religious. After the plage was what the shift towards individualism started from the belief that everything was centered around God..

People were putting their faith on God at the time. Many clergy died and prayer did not prevent sickness or death. It wasn't just church members dying off...It was the fact that nothing was getting done from the prayers..People were surprised their religion could not save them or the people dying around them..

If you want I will find you links..But if you want to support your case, you can sure post your links too..

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="taj7575"]

In simple terms: They were begging for a God, people were still dying, so they said **** it.

Easy?

taj7575

Well..How does that not make sence? Before the plague, almost everyone was religious. After the plage was what the shift towards individualism started from the belief that everything was centered around God..

People were putting their faith on God at the time. Many clergy died and prayer did not prevent sickness or death. It wasn't just church members dying off...It was the fact that nothing was getting done from the prayers..

If you want I will find you links..But if you want to support your case, you can sure post your links too..

Humans have a psychological need for religion.Pariahdox

[QUOTE="Pariahdox"]Humans have a psychological need for religion.Meinhard1

There are some books out that focus on this kind of study. Humans do have a psychological tendency to be religious.

Humans have a psychological need for religion.Pariahdox

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]Religion has existed for as long as humans existed. This isn't the first time someone said religion won't exist in x years and it won't be the last. Western culture has become more tolerant, but I hope that tolerance doesn't extend to the wrong sorts of things or we'll be merely taking three steps back for every one step forward.Atheists_Pwn

About fifteen percent of the world's population describes themselves as "non-religious." This isn't just "atheist," but "atheist, agnostic, spiritual, or other."

While there are more atheists around than there used to be, the rise is extremely gradual. There are over two billion self-identified Christians in the world--a little over a quarter of the population. I don't see it going anywhere.

[QUOTE="Atheists_Pwn"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"]Religion has existed for as long as humans existed. This isn't the first time someone said religion won't exist in x years and it won't be the last. Western culture has become more tolerant, but I hope that tolerance doesn't extend to the wrong sorts of things or we'll be merely taking three steps back for every one step forward.Theokhoth

About fifteen percent of the world's population describes themselves as "non-religious." This isn't just "atheist," but "atheist, agnostic, spiritual, or other."

While there are more atheists around than there used to be, the rise is extremely gradual. There are over two billion self-identified Christians in the world--a little over a quarter of the population. I don't see it going anywhere.

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="taj7575"]

In simple terms: They were begging for a God, people were still dying, so they said **** it.

Easy?

taj7575

Well..How does that not make sence? Before the plague, almost everyone was religious. After the plage was what the shift towards individualism started from the belief that everything was centered around God..

People were putting their faith on God at the time. Many clergy died and prayer did not prevent sickness or death. It wasn't just church members dying off...It was the fact that nothing was getting done from the prayers..People were surprised their religion could not save them or the people dying around them..

If you want I will find you links..But if you want to support your case, you can sure post your links too..

Except that, during the Plague, doctors existed. They had rudimentary forms of herbal medicine back then that, while certainly not as advanced as today's medicine, was used and considered generally effective.

The shift of focus from religion to other matters began in the Renaissance, but even then, religion was a massive cultural factor. The idea of humanism began in the Renaissance as an alternative method of glorifying God by improving His image (humans) to the best of their potential. Renaissance culture reflects this ideal very heavily.

The idea of individualism wouldn't really take off until the Enlightenment, when Martin Luther proposed that all Christians, rather than just the Catholic Church, held the authority to interpret the Bible for themselves. Sola Fides is the name of this doctrine and it's still a core Protestant principle.

[QUOTE="taj7575"]

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"] Do you have evidence of this wide spread "blank it" attitude? All I have seen is evidence of wide spread "save us" attitude. Theokhoth

Well..How does that not make sence? Before the plague, almost everyone was religious. After the plage was what the shift towards individualism started from the belief that everything was centered around God..

People were putting their faith on God at the time. Many clergy died and prayer did not prevent sickness or death. It wasn't just church members dying off...It was the fact that nothing was getting done from the prayers..People were surprised their religion could not save them or the people dying around them..

If you want I will find you links..But if you want to support your case, you can sure post your links too..

Except that, during the Plague, doctors existed. They had rudimentary forms of herbal medicine back then that, while certainly not as advanced as today's medicine, was used and considered generally effective.

The shift of focus from religion to other matters began in the Renaissance, but even then, religion was a massive cultural factor. The idea of humanism began in the Renaissance as an alternative method of glorifying God by improving His image (humans) to the best of their potential. Renaissance culture reflects this ideal very heavily.

The idea of individualism wouldn't really take off until the Enlightenment, when Martin Luther proposed that all Christians, rather than just the Catholic Church, held the authority to interpret the Bible for themselves. Sola Fides is the name of this doctrine and it's still a core Protestant principle.

Doctors existed, but by what numbers, and how many/who did they help?

Yes it began in the renaissance, but there was a bit of a decline even before. Yes, even during the renaissance religion was a huge factor (just look at the paintings, many were still focused on religion), but again, the primary focus was not always on God.

I believe religion will be more important in the next 100 years than it was in the last 100 years.fidosim

[QUOTE="Pariahdox"]Humans have a psychological need for religion.Atheists_Pwn

Obviously no one can "prove" something like that. However, I'm sure you've heard somewhere that the best invention man ever created was religion. Reason being that it gives man a purpose in life, and it is this feeling of purpose that has driven men to accomplish countless amazing things, both good and bad of course.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="taj7575"]

Well..How does that not make sence? Before the plague, almost everyone was religious. After the plage was what the shift towards individualism started from the belief that everything was centered around God..

People were putting their faith on God at the time. Many clergy died and prayer did not prevent sickness or death. It wasn't just church members dying off...It was the fact that nothing was getting done from the prayers..People were surprised their religion could not save them or the people dying around them..

If you want I will find you links..But if you want to support your case, you can sure post your links too..

taj7575

Except that, during the Plague, doctors existed. They had rudimentary forms of herbal medicine back then that, while certainly not as advanced as today's medicine, was used and considered generally effective.

The shift of focus from religion to other matters began in the Renaissance, but even then, religion was a massive cultural factor. The idea of humanism began in the Renaissance as an alternative method of glorifying God by improving His image (humans) to the best of their potential. Renaissance culture reflects this ideal very heavily.

The idea of individualism wouldn't really take off until the Enlightenment, when Martin Luther proposed that all Christians, rather than just the Catholic Church, held the authority to interpret the Bible for themselves. Sola Fides is the name of this doctrine and it's still a core Protestant principle.

Doctors existed, but by what numbers, and how many/who did they help?

Yes it began in the renaissance, but there was a bit of a decline even before. Yes, even during the renaissance religion was a huge factor (just look at the paintings, many were still focused on religion), but again, the primary focus was not always on God.

Decline of the importance of religion before the Renaissance? Before the Renaissance was the Middle Ages, where religion has had one of the largest influences on culture in all of history; the rise of the Catholic Church, the publication of Summa Theologica and the Divine Comedy, etc. etc.

I know the focus wasn't always on God; that's what I said. But God was still behind the focus on things not considered God; also as I said, humanism began as a movement to worship God by improving His image, that being humanity. Even in art that has no reference to God whatsoever, you can probably find something to link to God. Take this for example:

This is Poussin's Et in Arcadia Ego, which means "Even in Arcadia, I exist." God isn't anywhere in this painting. There's no reference or allusion to God or the Bible (Arcadia was considered a very fine vacation spot in Greece at the time). Yet this painting is about two things: Death and God. It's a memento mori; it's saying that, "No matter how good your life is, I, Death, exist there, so you had better keep to the priority of the afterlife and please God."

I'm extremely interested in the Renaissance, Baroque, Enlightenment, Middle Ages and Classical periods and I love this stuff.

Hopefully the rise of trans-humanism will put the final nail in Religion's coffin. I hope for a New Renaissance in the coming decades. With space exploration finally becoming a viable path to follow, and a technological singularity coming closer and closer to reality, there must be a better popular understanding of our cosmos. joao_22990

[QUOTE="fidosim"]I believe religion will be more important in the next 100 years than it was in the last 100 years.Brainkiller05

[QUOTE="taj7575"]

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

Except that, during the Plague, doctors existed. They had rudimentary forms of herbal medicine back then that, while certainly not as advanced as today's medicine, was used and considered generally effective.

The shift of focus from religion to other matters began in the Renaissance, but even then, religion was a massive cultural factor. The idea of humanism began in the Renaissance as an alternative method of glorifying God by improving His image (humans) to the best of their potential. Renaissance culture reflects this ideal very heavily.

The idea of individualism wouldn't really take off until the Enlightenment, when Martin Luther proposed that all Christians, rather than just the Catholic Church, held the authority to interpret the Bible for themselves. Sola Fides is the name of this doctrine and it's still a core Protestant principle.

Theokhoth

Doctors existed, but by what numbers, and how many/who did they help?

Yes it began in the renaissance, but there was a bit of a decline even before. Yes, even during the renaissance religion was a huge factor (just look at the paintings, many were still focused on religion), but again, the primary focus was not always on God.

Decline of the importance of religion before the Renaissance? Before the Renaissance was the Middle Ages, where religion has had one of the largest influences on culture in all of history; the rise of the Catholic Church, the publication of Summa Theologica and the Divine Comedy, etc. etc.

I know the focus wasn't always on God; that's what I said. But God was still behind the focus on things not considered God; also as I said, humanism began as a movement to worship God by improving His image, that being humanity. Even in art that has no reference to God whatsoever, you can probably find something to link to God. Take this for example:

This is Poussin's Et in Arcadia Ego, which means "Even in Arcadia, I exist." God isn't anywhere in this painting. There's no reference or allusion to God or the Bible (Arcadia was considered a very fine vacation spot in Greece at the time). Yet this painting is about two things: Death and God. It's a memento mori; it's saying that, "No matter how good your life is, I, Death, exist there, so you had better keep to the priority of the afterlife and please God."

I'm extremely interested in the Renaissance, Baroque, Enlightenment, Middle Ages and Classical periods and I love this stuff.

Even when dealing with Mary and Jesus you can see a change in the times. During the middle ages, it was mainly just a portrait showing their importance, with sometimes Jesus even looking like an old guy in a bady body (:lol:). But you can see the change, with the Mother and the Child actually looking at each other, and there is so much detail in the actual picture itself.

I know what you mean though. But what I'm saying is that the church and God at the time did not become the main facor of their lives as it used to be.

Religion created humanism and the original Renaissance. :|Theokhoth

Excuse me as i am not versed in the ways of History, but could you just explain what you said? I was always taught that Religion stood as the culture that Renaissance countered.

hm... well i hope it dies.

IronBeaver

Yet this painting is about two things: Death and God. It's a memento mori; it's saying that, "No matter how good your life is, I, Death, exist there, so you had better keep to the priority of the afterlife and please God."

Theokhoth

In simple terms: They were begging for a God, people were still dying, so they said **** it.

Easy?

taj7575

Wait? What? Didn't the plague create an economic boom in which property became more available to the survivors, serfs gained economic leverage against their feudal lords, and the church became more powerful and wealthy than ever before? My understanding is that as more and more peasants realized that their labor was what was keeping the feudal lords afloat after the plague, feudal loyalties to local lords were strained, thereby causing kings and the church to consolodate power. As power became more centralized under monarchs, the church's role as a common and unifying institution in each kingdom gained importance. The monarchs that sought to consolodate power ruled over widely varying fiefdoms whose only common allegiance was the church. Those monarchs promoted the church as a check against local nobility.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]Religion created humanism and the original Renaissance. :|joao_22990

Excuse me as i am not versed in the ways of History, but could you just explain what you said? I was always taught that Religion stood as the culture that Renaissance countered.

The Renaissance began when the fall of Constantinople resulted in the migration of many, many ancient Greek texts to Italy, particularly Florence. People translated these texts and were so fascinated by them that they decided to incorporate their ideas into their lives. This influence even permeated Christianity (Voltaire once said that Christianity was a religion created by Jesus and Plato). This was the birth of neo-classicism--a "rebirth" of classicism.

Now, as this happened, cultural ideas shifted from God and the Church being the center of all thought and academia to humanism. Today humanism is usually understood in the secular means, but back then humanism was considered a new way to glorify God by perfecting (or coming as close as possible) the intelligence and cultural advancement of humans. After all, if God's creation does wondrously, then what could possibly be a better tribute to God?

This idea was very popular amongst the Church and the populace. Oh, there were people who didn't like the idea, sure--Savanorola, a man who came into power in Florence during this time, was one of them, and he tried to reverse the culture to go back to the Middle Ages--but, generally, this was the accepted idea. Works were published during this time, like Giovanni Pica della Mirandola's Oration on the Dignity of Man (which you can read here ) and Castiglione's Book of the Courtier that expressed this idea fully. Artwork had a sudden, massive emphasis on pagan deities: Venus especially, as she embodied the ideal of divine love, and the core of Christianity has always stressed divine love.

Religion did not run counter-culturally to the Renaissance; it helped it for the most part. The Catholic Church still has many paintings and sculptures from that era. Religion is against secular humanism--because, duh, it's secular--no Gods allowed. :P But original humanism was a different story altogether.

i feel like religion in the world, if not only the west, will be almost non existant by like 2050.

thoughts?

IronBeaver

Heck, Time Magazine recently said that one of the fastest growing movements in America right now is New Calvinism: a form of theological belief dating back 500 years to the Protestant Reformation (I fall in this group actually). Basically many are going deeper into their religious roots. With that said, there also exists many like Richard Dawkins who is completely against religion to counterbalance the religious landscape.