As a Texan, I can say that IT IS an issue But it is not as big an issue as everyone makes it out to be Many just come across to work jobs that most Americans don't want and they try to "stay under the radar" so to speak The bigger problem is the drug traffic that comes across the border and the Mexican drug wars that often spill over onto US soil
[QUOTE="rawsavon"]As a Texan, I can say that IT IS an issue But it is not as big an issue as everyone makes it out to be Many just come across to work jobs that most Americans don't want and they try to "stay under the radar" so to speak The bigger problem is the drug traffic that comes across the border and the Mexican drug wars that often spill over onto US soil Yar, drug and gun trafficking across the borders is a bigger issue. Folks coming up to work, illegal as it may be, not as big an issue.
[QUOTE="rawsavon"] The bigger problem is the drug traffic that comes across the border and the Mexican drug wars that often spill over onto US soilAgreed. The whole "they're stealin' our jobs!" argument holds water, but in the grand scheme of things it's a lesser issue.
[QUOTE="rawsavon"] The bigger problem is the drug traffic that comes across the border and the Mexican drug wars that often spill over onto US soilspazzx625
Agreed. The whole "they're stealin' our jobs!" argument holds water, but in the grand scheme of things it's a lesser issue. At least in Texas, they mostly work in construction and the oil field doing REALLY HARD labor It may be more of an issue during this recession because right now some Americans will take any job they can get, but during normal times it is not usually an issue for them to take jobs no one wants Also, as a former teacher (my GF is also a teacher) the kids in school are usually the most well behaved students in class PERIOD Yes, they are getting a "free" education But i really don't have a problem helping an extra 1/100 kids Especially kids that are respectful and apreciative of their education
There isn't really a problem with it here in Canada; the worst we have to deal with are American draft dodgers and criminals who flee up here. Which is worse than normal illegal immigrants since most illegal immigrants are only looking for a better life; we get the American rapists and murderers.
[QUOTE="SAGE_OF_FIRE"]Yes its a huge issue, but noone will confront it because they will lose votes. rawsavon
Lose whose votes? Illegal = can't vote Right wing = support any anti illegal bill Left wing = indifferent on the issue If you are going after illegal immigration you will lose most of the Hispanic vote.
[QUOTE="rawsavon"][QUOTE="SAGE_OF_FIRE"]Yes its a huge issue, but noone will confront it because they will lose votes. SAGE_OF_FIRE
Lose whose votes? Illegal = can't vote Right wing = support any anti illegal bill Left wing = indifferent on the issue If you are going after illegal immigration you will lose most of the Hispanic vote. who don't vote only old white people vote (according to statistics)
There isn't really a problem with it here in Canada; the worst we have to deal with are American draft dodgers and criminals who flee up here. Which is worse than normal illegal immigrants since most illegal immigrants are only looking for a better life; we get the American rapists and murderers.
Oh well, America is our Mexico.
metroid_dragon
Draft dodgers?:? We don't have a draft right now so I think you mean deserters.
As a citizen of Florida, I witness the hiring and employment of thousands of illegals per year, particularly in agriculture. You're more or less guaranteed that the cost of orange juice will double if we succeed in keeping them all out.
[QUOTE="spazzx625"][QUOTE="rawsavon"] The bigger problem is the drug traffic that comes across the border and the Mexican drug wars that often spill over onto US soilrawsavon
Agreed. The whole "they're stealin' our jobs!" argument holds water, but in the grand scheme of things it's a lesser issue. At least in Texas, they mostly work in construction and the oil field doing REALLY HARD labor It may be more of an issue during this recession because right now some Americans will take any job they can get, but during normal times it is not usually an issue for them to take jobs no one wants Also, as a former teacher (my GF is also a teacher) the kids in school are usually the most well behaved students in class PERIOD Yes, they are getting a "free" education But i really don't have a problem helping an extra 1/100 kids Especially kids that are respectful and apreciative of their education They had some folks, legal this time, coming up from Mexico in the northern Rockies doing work planting trees to prevent erosion where there had been large fires. The local forest service guys running the program said they couldn't find anyone to work it. That job looked H A R D. I don't always buy into the "they work jobs Americans won't" idea all the time but in some cases that is true.
Yar, drug and gun trafficking across the borders is a bigger issue. Folks coming up to work, illegal as it may be, not as big an issue.duxup
Agreed. The whole "they're stealin' our jobs!" argument holds water, but in the grand scheme of things it's a lesser issue.spazzx625
I disagree with you guys; I think the economic problems surrounding illegal immigration tie in with a lot of the issues we're dealing with. Healthcare, education, welfare - illegal immigration has contributed to these problems. Having such a huge population of people who don't pay taxes to contribute to the system is causing all kinds of problems economically.
[QUOTE="duxup"] Yar, drug and gun trafficking across the borders is a bigger issue. Folks coming up to work, illegal as it may be, not as big an issue.fidosim
Agreed. The whole "they're stealin' our jobs!" argument holds water, but in the grand scheme of things it's a lesser issue.spazzx625
I disagree with you guys; I think the economic problems surrounding illegal immigration tie in with a lot of the issues we're dealing with. Healthcare, education, welfare - illegal immigration has contributed to these problems. Having such a huge population of people who don't pay taxes to contribute to the system is causing all kinds of problems economically. The health care, economic problems, and educations issues would all exist without illegal immigrants. They didn't take over our banks and hand out mortgages to folks who shouldn't qualify for a quick buck.
[QUOTE="duxup"] Yar, drug and gun trafficking across the borders is a bigger issue. Folks coming up to work, illegal as it may be, not as big an issue.fidosim
Agreed. The whole "they're stealin' our jobs!" argument holds water, but in the grand scheme of things it's a lesser issue.spazzx625
I disagree with you guys; I think the economic problems surrounding illegal immigration tie in with a lot of the issues we're dealing with. Healthcare, education, welfare - illegal immigration has contributed to these problems. Having such a huge population of people who don't pay taxes to contribute to the system is causing all kinds of problems economically. You are CORRECT in that they do not pay in to the system (paid "off" the books) But you INCORRECT in that they drain the system -they want to stay off the grid = no welfare, only emergency healthcare (are that cold to deny emergency services to any human), and educate a few extra kids (which I covered in an earlier post) that will grow up and CONTRIBUTE to the system Short version -don't pay in -take MINIMAL amount out -do mostly jobs we don't want, that NEED to get done -cheap labor enables many businesses to survive -cheap labor ensures cheaper products for consumers (another posters OJ exammple)
[QUOTE="fidosim"][QUOTE="duxup"] [QUOTE="spazzx625"]Agreed. The whole "they're stealin' our jobs!" argument holds water, but in the grand scheme of things it's a lesser issue.duxup
I disagree with you guys; I think the economic problems surrounding illegal immigration tie in with a lot of the issues we're dealing with. Healthcare, education, welfare - illegal immigration has contributed to these problems. Having such a huge population of people who don't pay taxes to contribute to the system is causing all kinds of problems economically. The health care, economic problems, and educations issues would all exist without illegal immigrants. They didn't take over our banks and hand out mortgages to folks who shouldn't qualify for a quick buck. They would, but they wouldn't be as severe, especially in the southwest.
You are CORRECT in that they do not pay in to the system (paid "off" the books) But you INCORRECT in that they drain the system -they want to stay off the grid = no welfare, only emergency healthcare (are that cold to deny emergency services to any human), and educate a few extra kids (which I covered in an earlier post) that will grow up and CONTRIBUTE to the system Short version -don't pay in -take MINIMAL amount out -do mostly jobs we don't want, that NEED to get done -cheap labor enables many businesses to survive -cheap labor ensures cheaper products for consumers (another posters OJ exammple)rawsavon
They are a drain on the system, I think you are downplaying it a little bit. In California, illegal immigrants make up roughly 15% of the K-12 student body, and cost the state $10 billion a year. Cheap labor and low prices are attractive, but I think reform is needed, both in the interest of immigrants and for the economy. The way things are now, illegals are simply being exploited for cheap labor and getting less than what they deserve, not to mention the lost jobs for legal citizens. I'm not trying to scapegoat illegals. On the contrary, I think we need to provide a clear route to legalization so they can be part of the system.
[QUOTE="duxup"] Yar, drug and gun trafficking across the borders is a bigger issue. Folks coming up to work, illegal as it may be, not as big an issue.fidosim
Agreed. The whole "they're stealin' our jobs!" argument holds water, but in the grand scheme of things it's a lesser issue.spazzx625
I disagree with you guys; I think the economic problems surrounding illegal immigration tie in with a lot of the issues we're dealing with. Healthcare, education, welfare - illegal immigration has contributed to these problems. Having such a huge population of people who don't pay taxes to contribute to the system is causing all kinds of problems economically. Illegal immigrants still pay taxes (here's a good article that explains this). The biggest problem they cause economically is the impact that they have on the lower **** but that has more to do with immigration as a whole rather than just illegal immigration, and immigration does benefit the middle and upper **** so it's not all bad.
[QUOTE="rawsavon"] You are CORRECT in that they do not pay in to the system (paid "off" the books) But you INCORRECT in that they drain the system -they want to stay off the grid = no welfare, only emergency healthcare (are that cold to deny emergency services to any human), and educate a few extra kids (which I covered in an earlier post) that will grow up and CONTRIBUTE to the system Short version -don't pay in -take MINIMAL amount out -do mostly jobs we don't want, that NEED to get done -cheap labor enables many businesses to survive -cheap labor ensures cheaper products for consumers (another posters OJ exammple)fidosim
They are a drain on the system, I think you are downplaying it a little bit. In California, illegal immigrants make up roughly 15% of the K-12 student body, and cost the state $10 billion a year. Cheap labor and low prices are attractive, but I think reform is needed, both in the interest of immigrants and for the economy. The way things are now, illegals are simply being exploited for cheap labor and getting less than what they deserve, not to mention the lost jobs for legal citizens. I'm not trying to scapegoat illegals. On the contrary, I think we need to provide a clear route to legalization so they can be part of the system. So we agree on some things, not on others -I agree that it needs to be easier for them to become citizens -But the US takes a more punitive measure, they just deport them, which does not solve anything (they will just come right back) Consumers will have to be willing to pay higher prices for many things though -Houses (construction) and Agriculture will be the main ones where prices will increase a lot if we legalize most of their workforce Another point: I would rather pay to educate people, than have that many uneducated people At least educated people are better able to support themselves in the future
Yes..With the economy how it is now..its really hard to get a job the way it is but with all these illegals working under the table its just that much harder.Im 16 years old and i want a job so I dont have to bum money off my mom but its not easy at all!
Illegal immigrants still pay taxes (here's a good article that explains this). The biggest problem they cause economically is the impact that they have on the lower **** but that has more to do with immigration as a whole rather than just illegal immigration, and immigration does benefit the middle and upper **** so it's not all bad.-Sun_Tzu-
I stand corrected regarding taxes, there are a number of illegals who file income taxes, but the specifics regarding how many actually pay them under an alternative SS number are almost impossible to determine as opposed to the illegal population as a whole. But costs are still being driven up in the spheres of health care, education, and costs associated with welfare benefits for legal citizens put out of work by cheap labor, as well as imprisonment-related costs for illegals who commit crime in the U.S.
But it is wrong that illegals who are filing income taxes are not receiving the benefits of doing so. I think that's more impetus for reform.
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