Do you think people can be improved by insulting them?

I think that insults are extremely valuable in communication. If a person is engaged in a debate based on faulty logic or premises, there can never be progression. If you want to have a conclusive debate, it is necessary to insult the debater.

Here is an example: suppose a person believes that locations above the equator are called "south", and locations below the equator are called "north". It is impossible to make a logical argument with this person. The only thing you can do is insult this misguided person and hope that the sense of indignation will prompt him to reconsider his position. If enough people insult this person, eventually he may correct his mistake. It is the only way to deal with such an individual.

Yeah, but they can also cause people to "lock up" and be defensive, ergo continue a poor line of thinking - worsening the outcome which would have occurred had insults not been employed as a debate tactic. You want someone to keep an opinion? Insult them for holding it.

And if insults don't work?BranKetra

[QUOTE="BranKetra"]And if insults don't work?PWSteal_Ldpinch

Yeah, but they can also cause people to "lock up" and be defensive, ergo continue a poor line of thinking - worsening the outcome which would have occurred had insults not been employed as a debate tactic. You want someone to keep an opinion? Insult them for holding it.

coolbeans90

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

Yeah, but they can also cause people to "lock up" and be defensive, ergo continue a poor line of thinking - worsening the outcome which would have occurred had insults not been employed as a debate tactic. You want someone to keep an opinion? Insult them for holding it.

PWSteal_Ldpinch

They'll most likely reconsider their fist in your face.

After all, this is beyond the point of logic and reasoning.

That is not the proper way to insult someone. You are implying that progress could have been made through reasoning. I am suggesting that insults should be used when the debate has reached a gridlock. When it is impossible for the argument to proceed using logic and reasoning. At this junction, an insult can help the individual to reconsider.

PWSteal_Ldpinch

That's not how it works. Insults never get the individual to reconsider.

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

Yeah, but they can also cause people to "lock up" and be defensive, ergo continue a poor line of thinking - worsening the outcome which would have occurred had insults not been employed as a debate tactic. You want someone to keep an opinion? Insult them for holding it.

PWSteal_Ldpinch

Perhaps - though can it really be said that they wouldn't think about it afterwards? No one wants to look like they're conceding during a debate. Insulting might cause the opposite of the intended result in such a case. I mean, I don't really see how insulting provides an impetus for critical thinking, regardless.

Perhaps - though can it really be said that they wouldn't think about it afterwards? No one wants to look like they're conceding during a debate. Insulting might cause the opposite of the intended result in such a case. I mean, I don't really see how insulting provides an impetus for critical thinking, regardless.

coolbeans90

Your beans aren't so cool now, huh?!

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

Perhaps - though can it really be said that they wouldn't think about it afterwards? No one wants to look like they're conceding during a debate. Insulting might cause the opposite of the intended result in such a case. I mean, I don't really see how insulting provides an impetus for critical thinking, regardless.

airshocker

Your beans aren't so cool now, huh?!

My beans are cooler than you'll ever be.

[QUOTE="PWSteal_Ldpinch"]

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

Yeah, but they can also cause people to "lock up" and be defensive, ergo continue a poor line of thinking - worsening the outcome which would have occurred had insults not been employed as a debate tactic. You want someone to keep an opinion? Insult them for holding it.

THE_DRUGGIE

They'll most likely reconsider their fist in your face.

After all, this is beyond the point of logic and reasoning.

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

Yeah, but they can also cause people to "lock up" and be defensive, ergo continue a poor line of thinking - worsening the outcome which would have occurred had insults not been employed as a debate tactic. You want someone to keep an opinion? Insult them for holding it.

PWSteal_Ldpinch

My beans are cooler than you'll ever be.

coolbeans90

Yeah...well...I don't even like beans ANYWAY.

Of course. If I tell one of my buddies you looks like a clown in that shirt 9 times out of 10 he's going to change that shirt.i5750at4Ghz

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

My beans are cooler than you'll ever be.

airshocker

Yeah...well...I don't even like beans ANYWAY.

Jelly beans.

[QUOTE="THE_DRUGGIE"]

[QUOTE="PWSteal_Ldpinch"] That is not the proper way to insult someone. You are implying that progress could have been made through reasoning. I am suggesting that insults should be used when the debate has reached a gridlock. When it is impossible for the argument to proceed using logic and reasoning. At this junction, an insult can help the individual to reconsider.

PWSteal_Ldpinch

They'll most likely reconsider their fist in your face.

After all, this is beyond the point of logic and reasoning.

Jelly beans.

coolbeans90

Even worse! Especially when they're in the shape of a mutated rooster! Man, I'm tired, too much Arkham Asylum / City. The Joker is making me ridiculous.

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

Jelly beans.

airshocker

Even worse! Especially when they're in the shape of a mutated rooster! Man, I'm tired, too much Arkham Asylum / City. The Joker is making me ridiculous.

I want that f***ing game.

[QUOTE="THE_DRUGGIE"]

[QUOTE="PWSteal_Ldpinch"] That is not the proper way to insult someone. You are implying that progress could have been made through reasoning. I am suggesting that insults should be used when the debate has reached a gridlock. When it is impossible for the argument to proceed using logic and reasoning. At this junction, an insult can help the individual to reconsider.

PWSteal_Ldpinch

They'll most likely reconsider their fist in your face.

After all, this is beyond the point of logic and reasoning.

I want that f***ing game.

coolbeans90

Dude, they're epic. I honestly don't know which I like better. City has awesome gadgets and tons of exploration, but Asylum flows much better and has a better story.

Yes, it's the greatest form of motivation.

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

I want that f***ing game.

airshocker

Dude, they're epic. I honestly don't know which I like better. City has awesome gadgets and tons of exploration, but Asylum flows much better and has a better story.

I want that f***ing game.

coolbeans90

About to play in exactly 2 minutes, you jelly; Beans?

Yeah, but they can also cause people to "lock up" and be defensive, ergo continue a poor line of thinking - worsening the outcome which would have occurred had insults not been employed as a debate tactic. You want someone to keep an opinion? Insult them for holding it.

coolbeans90

by the way is there a psychology term for such a behavior? Being annoyed to do something, and then doing the exact opposite of proposed action?

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

I want that f***ing game.

airshocker

Dude, they're epic. I honestly don't know which I like better. City has awesome gadgets and tons of exploration, but Asylum flows much better and has a better story.

I loved Asylum. One of the better games I played that year. If City is anywhere near as good (which it seems to be), it's going to be awesome.

No one wants to look like they're conceding during a debate.coolbeans90

Then it's not a genuine debate. Maybe you don't want too look like you're concedeting but that's not true for everyone. You inadvertently revealed that you don't like to concede in a debate. I'll keep that in mind.

I mean, I don't really see how insulting provides an impetus for critical thinking, regardless.

coolbeans90

Insulting isn't an impetus for critical thinking. You can think very hard about whether north is below the equator but you will never get an answer by thinking. An insult is like a jolt to the brain. If enough people insult you, then you may reconsider.

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]I want that f***ing game.

Baconbits2004

About to play in exactly 2 minutes, you jelly; Beans?

Am jelly. :(

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]No one wants to look like they're conceding during a debate.PWSteal_Ldpinch

Then it's not a genuine debate. Maybe you don't want too look like you're concedeting but that's not true for everyone. You inadvertently revealed that you don't like to concede in a debate. I'll keep that in mind.

I mean, I don't really see how insulting provides an impetus for critical thinking, regardless.

coolbeans90

Insulting isn't an impetus for critical thinking. You can think very hard about whether north is below the equator but you will never get an answer by thinking. An insult is like a jolt to the brain. If enough people insult you, then you may reconsider.

AA was really good. Sadly Fall is stuffed with too many awesome games and I have to make some cuts. Skyrim, Dark Souls and BF3 is what I settled on. AC will have to wait until I have time for it.Ace6301

Probably for the better, that way you can get the Robin DLC when it's out in November.Robin actually isn't a wuss in this game. Which is surprising since I've never liked him and thought it would stay that way.

Then it's not a genuine debate. Maybe you don't want too look like you're concedeting but that's not true for everyone. You inadvertently revealed that you don't like to concede in a debate. I'll keep that in mind.

Insulting isn't an impetus for critical thinking. You can think very hard about whether north is below the equator but you will never get an answer by thinking.An insult is like a jolt to the brain. If enough people insult you, then you may reconsider.

PWSteal_Ldpinch

Eh, I concede points all the time, even arguments on occasion. The fact that it's not everyone who dislikes losing is more or less inconsequential. If enough people do it, then employing said debate tactic can still, easily, have an overwhelmingly negative affect.

Your post (red) seems self-contradictory. Reconsideration requires thought.

I loved Asylum. One of the better games I played that year. If City is anywhere near as good (which it seems to be), it's going to be awesome.

coolbeans90

You won't be disappointed. For all the story quirks, the animations make it awesome.

Anyway, I am going to bed.

[QUOTE="PWSteal_Ldpinch"]

That is not the proper way to insult someone. You are implying that progress could have been made through reasoning. I am suggesting that insults should be used when the debate has reached a gridlock. When it is impossible for the argument to proceed using logic and reasoning. At this junction, an insult can help the individual to reconsider.

airshocker

That's not how it works. Insults never get the individual to reconsider.

If someone is willing to reconsider their position because of an insult from some random person online then they aren't going to be hard to convince they're wrong in the first place. "Oh my god randomgsmember says I'm an idiot...what if he's right!?" No. That's never going to happen. They'll just assume you can't put forward a coherent argument and continue with their false beliefs. Ace6301

I'm not saying that an insult will immediately change someone's mind. If many people insult the person for his obviously false position, then his pride will be chipped away until he comes to the realization that he might have been wrong.

Generally speaking no - truths delivered with a little tact and diplomacy are generally far more effective than by a means which by definition the recipient will be insulted by. In fact the insult itself is probably going to resonate louder and longer than the actual message you're trying to convey.

[QUOTE="Ace6301"]If someone is willing to reconsider their position because of an insult from some random person online then they aren't going to be hard to convince they're wrong in the first place. "Oh my god randomgsmember says I'm an idiot...what if he's right!?" No. That's never going to happen. They'll just assume you can't put forward a coherent argument and continue with their false beliefs. PWSteal_Ldpinch

I'm not saying that an insult will immediately change someone's mind. If many people insult the person for his obviously false position, then his pride will be chipped away until he comes to the realization that he might have been wrong.

[QUOTE="Ace6301"]If someone is willing to reconsider their position because of an insult from some random person online then they aren't going to be hard to convince they're wrong in the first place. "Oh my god randomgsmember says I'm an idiot...what if he's right!?" No. That's never going to happen. They'll just assume you can't put forward a coherent argument and continue with their false beliefs. PWSteal_Ldpinch

I'm not saying that an insult will immediately change someone's mind. If many people insult the person for his obviously false position, then his pride will be chipped away until he comes to the realization that he might have been wrong.

Generally speaking no - truths delivered with a little tact and diplomacy are generally far more effective than by a means which by definition the recipient will be insulted by. In fact the insult itself is probably going to resonate louder and longer than the actual message you're trying to convey.

poptart

To an extent, maybe, but probably only for a short while. At one point you're just going to continue to tear someone down and ruin self-assurance in the process, which, depending on the person, they can either go up or down from. That's when, as another user said, the insult resonates louder than the motivation behind it. Constructive criticism is good, a barrage of insults isn't the most effective means of improvement imo.

I think that insults are extremely valuable in communication.

PWSteal_Ldpinch