Drums in songs

You have to tune drums because they have a tone. They ring that tone after being hit. So how come the only thing I ever hear in most recorded music is the impact of the drum, not the tone?

The biggest difference, to me, in hearing a band live and listening to their CD is the drums. Unless it's like conga drums or something it seems they cut the tone out and all you hear is the 'thud' of the strike.

Is there a reason for this or is it just the bands preferred sound?

i don't understand exactly what your asking. All drums have tones just listen to the difference between a bass drum and a snare. A single drum can be tuned in order to make the tone of the drum flat or sharp, have it ring for long period of time or not (it's all about how the stick impacts the drum, you can impact a drum in different places and get a different sound). Just pick up a drum set and fiddle around with the drumming and you'll easily be able to tell the difference when you tighten the skins and loosen them.

Edit: When listening to drums live the sound is inconsistent. When listening to a studio version every hit on the same drum sounds the same unless they are crescendo'ing or decrescendo'ing . The tone is still there but it's a little more difficult to hear when listening to just one song. if you have two songs from two diff bands and just listen to the drumming you should be able to hear a tone difference.

What I'm saying is all I hear in recorded music is the stick strike the skin. There's no tone to it. It's just a 'Thud'. In concert, it's more of a 'boooooooom' that rings for a second, especially the floor toms.

Drums are definitely tuned.

Drums are definitely tuned.

jimmyjammer69

See, that sounds great. Now listen to this. The drums sound...truncated.

I will assume you're talking about rock/metal, because this isn't really an issue in any other genre. Rock and metal, unlike genres such as reggae, jazz, or country, have a lot going on that prevents drum tone from standing out.

Speaking as a semi-professional session drummer (drummer of 17 years) who has done a LOT of studio and live work, the "click" of the impact for toms and bass drum is the most important. Tune and tone are also important, but secondary. When recording drums, having the boom of the bass or toms will usually only muddle the sound of everything else, because it sounds like excess noise. The focus is on the impact, because fills and other intricate stick work on toms will not be discernible if you can't adequately hear the hit itself. Opening up the boom sound and putting it at a comparable level to the click wil generallyl A) make the toms too prominent when compared to the rest of the drum kit and B) again, make fills sound like excess noise in a recording.

If you truly can't hear the tune or tone at all, its just lazy mixing/engineering, but this is usually not the case. In fact, I don't think I've ever heard a recording in which the tune and tone were totally masked, so it may be that your ear is not completely adept at discerning the subtleties of drum samples. Yes, a lot of drummers do emphasize the click more than the boom, and it's to make sure people know when they do hit those toms, because having only the boom would make each hit completely indiscernible from the bass guitar or guitar, and having both at equal levels will typically result in my A and B above.

There are, however, a few drummers who are supremely skilled at recording their drum work and have figured out how to get a very clean and noticeable tone without compromising the integrity of each actual hit or muddling the recording. Gavin Harrison of Porcupine Tree is one of them, as well as Danny Carey from Tool. Both are masters in the studio. Mike Portnoy, Josh Freese, Jon Theodore, and Stewart Copeland are a few others I can think of off the top of my head.

[QUOTE="jimmyjammer69"]

Drums are definitely tuned.

br0kenrabbit

See, that sounds great. Now listen to this. The drums sound...truncated.

I will assume you're talking about rock/metal, because this isn't really an issue in any other genre. Rock and metal, unlike genres such as reggae, jazz, or country, have a lot going on that prevents drum tone from standing out.

Elephant_Couple

Yeah, pretty much. I suppose that was the answer I was looking for, but it's disappointing, the technical limitations and all. It's like the resonance is cut out, and the sound losses a lot of presence because of it. IMO

[QUOTE="Elephant_Couple"]

I will assume you're talking about rock/metal, because this isn't really an issue in any other genre. Rock and metal, unlike genres such as reggae, jazz, or country, have a lot going on that prevents drum tone from standing out.

br0kenrabbit

Yeah, pretty much. I suppose that was the answer I was looking for, but it's disappointing, the technical limitations and all. It's like the resonance is cut out, and the sound losses a lot of presence because of it. IMO

You also have to understand that most bands recording music these days have no formal education when it comes to their instrument. All they care about is having a recording that sounds catchy and sonically tight. The best way to ensure that the drum tone doesn't matter (because most of them don't know what to do with it) is to remove it as much as possible. The technology is there, but it's very tough to make it work. You have to know how to achieve the correct combination of mic'ing, tuning, mixing, and actual playing. I guess what I'm saying is it depends on the drummer. Five of the six drummers in my last post have a jazz background (as do I), and all six are formally educated in percussion. They know how to achieve that combination on their kits and in the studio. Most drummers do not.

in the music that i like to play, drums are purely rhythm. of course, the tone must be right, but 90% of people won't pay particular attention to that.

Like a poster said above, it depends on the style of music, it's all too familiar when going to rock and metal gigs (especially unsigned bands) to just dampen their drums instead of tuning, which really annoys me; guitarists tune their guitars and I don't see why drummers don't make an effort to get the sound they want without sticking tape all over their drums.

This will sound really elitist probably, but i find drummers who play jazz for example, generally know much more about tuning and the instrument so you'll find 'better' drum sounds as a result, but it's just really down to the style of music, there seems to be a prefered sound in popular music which is generally down to studio techniques and such

I will assume you're talking about rock/metal, because this isn't really an issue in any other genre. Rock and metal, unlike genres such as reggae, jazz, or country, have a lot going on that prevents drum tone from standing out.

Speaking as a semi-professional session drummer (drummer of 17 years) who has done a LOT of studio and live work, the "click" of the impact for toms and bass drum is the most important. Tune and tone are also important, but secondary. When recording drums, having the boom of the bass or toms will usually only muddle the sound of everything else, because it sounds like excess noise. The focus is on the impact, because fills and other intricate stick work on toms will not be discernible if you can't adequately hear the hit itself. Opening up the boom sound and putting it at a comparable level to the click wil generallyl A) make the toms too prominent when compared to the rest of the drum kit and B) again, make fills sound like excess noise in a recording.

If you truly can't hear the tune or tone at all, its just lazy mixing/engineering, but this is usually not the case. In fact, I don't think I've ever heard a recording in which the tune and tone were totally masked, so it may be that your ear is not completely adept at discerning the subtleties of drum samples. Yes, a lot of drummers do emphasize the click more than the boom, and it's to make sure people know when they do hit those toms, because having only the boom would make each hit completely indiscernible from the bass guitar or guitar, and having both at equal levels will typically result in my A and B above.

There are, however, a few drummers who are supremely skilled at recording their drum work and have figured out how to get a very clean and noticeable tone without compromising the integrity of each actual hit or muddling the recording. Gavin Harrison of Porcupine Tree is one of them, as well as Danny Carey from Tool. Both are masters in the studio. Mike Portnoy, Josh Freese, Jon Theodore, and Stewart Copeland are a few others I can think of off the top of my head.

Elephant_Couple

Gavin Harrison was the first that came to mind when i thought about great sounding drums in songs. The best drums i've heard on a record were from the audio DVD 5.1 mix of Lightbulb Sun. It just sounds incredible when you have a good surround system.

[QUOTE="Elephant_Couple"]

I will assume you're talking about rock/metal, because this isn't really an issue in any other genre. Rock and metal, unlike genres such as reggae, jazz, or country, have a lot going on that prevents drum tone from standing out.

Speaking as a semi-professional session drummer (drummer of 17 years) who has done a LOT of studio and live work, the "click" of the impact for toms and bass drum is the most important. Tune and tone are also important, but secondary. When recording drums, having the boom of the bass or toms will usually only muddle the sound of everything else, because it sounds like excess noise. The focus is on the impact, because fills and other intricate stick work on toms will not be discernible if you can't adequately hear the hit itself. Opening up the boom sound and putting it at a comparable level to the click wil generallyl A) make the toms too prominent when compared to the rest of the drum kit and B) again, make fills sound like excess noise in a recording.

If you truly can't hear the tune or tone at all, its just lazy mixing/engineering, but this is usually not the case. In fact, I don't think I've ever heard a recording in which the tune and tone were totally masked, so it may be that your ear is not completely adept at discerning the subtleties of drum samples. Yes, a lot of drummers do emphasize the click more than the boom, and it's to make sure people know when they do hit those toms, because having only the boom would make each hit completely indiscernible from the bass guitar or guitar, and having both at equal levels will typically result in my A and B above.

There are, however, a few drummers who are supremely skilled at recording their drum work and have figured out how to get a very clean and noticeable tone without compromising the integrity of each actual hit or muddling the recording. Gavin Harrison of Porcupine Tree is one of them, as well as Danny Carey from Tool. Both are masters in the studio. Mike Portnoy, Josh Freese, Jon Theodore, and Stewart Copeland are a few others I can think of off the top of my head.

HeavenIceDay

Gavin Harrison was the first that came to mind when i thought about great sounding drums in songs. The best drums i've heard on a record were from the audio DVD 5.1 mix of Lightbulb Sun. It just sounds incredible when you have a good surround system.

[QUOTE="HeavenIceDay"]

[QUOTE="Elephant_Couple"]

I will assume you're talking about rock/metal, because this isn't really an issue in any other genre. Rock and metal, unlike genres such as reggae, jazz, or country, have a lot going on that prevents drum tone from standing out.

Speaking as a semi-professional session drummer (drummer of 17 years) who has done a LOT of studio and live work, the "click" of the impact for toms and bass drum is the most important. Tune and tone are also important, but secondary. When recording drums, having the boom of the bass or toms will usually only muddle the sound of everything else, because it sounds like excess noise. The focus is on the impact, because fills and other intricate stick work on toms will not be discernible if you can't adequately hear the hit itself. Opening up the boom sound and putting it at a comparable level to the click wil generallyl A) make the toms too prominent when compared to the rest of the drum kit and B) again, make fills sound like excess noise in a recording.

If you truly can't hear the tune or tone at all, its just lazy mixing/engineering, but this is usually not the case. In fact, I don't think I've ever heard a recording in which the tune and tone were totally masked, so it may be that your ear is not completely adept at discerning the subtleties of drum samples. Yes, a lot of drummers do emphasize the click more than the boom, and it's to make sure people know when they do hit those toms, because having only the boom would make each hit completely indiscernible from the bass guitar or guitar, and having both at equal levels will typically result in my A and B above.

There are, however, a few drummers who are supremely skilled at recording their drum work and have figured out how to get a very clean and noticeable tone without compromising the integrity of each actual hit or muddling the recording. Gavin Harrison of Porcupine Tree is one of them, as well as Danny Carey from Tool. Both are masters in the studio. Mike Portnoy, Josh Freese, Jon Theodore, and Stewart Copeland are a few others I can think of off the top of my head.

jonnymcl2k

Gavin Harrison was the first that came to mind when i thought about great sounding drums in songs. The best drums i've heard on a record were from the audio DVD 5.1 mix of Lightbulb Sun. It just sounds incredible when you have a good surround system.

Yeah Gavin is awesome. Check out this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKCIUpW3q9s So cool drumming :D

[QUOTE="jonnymcl2k"][QUOTE="HeavenIceDay"]

Gavin Harrison was the first that came to mind when i thought about great sounding drums in songs. The best drums i've heard on a record were from the audio DVD 5.1 mix of Lightbulb Sun. It just sounds incredible when you have a good surround system.

HeavenIceDay

Yeah Gavin is awesome. Check out this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKCIUpW3q9s So cool drumming :D

Would the drums of the ST.Anger album by metallica be put to account with this topic? just wondering as that got alot of backslash with the rather unique tone to the drums.shadowkiller11

[QUOTE="shadowkiller11"]Would the drums of the ST.Anger album by metallica be put to account with this topic? just wondering as that got alot of backslash with the rather unique tone to the drums.jonnymcl2k

I was going to post about the tinny drums in St. Anger, but people beat me to it :lol:

Yeah Gavin is awesome. Check out this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKCIUpW3q9s So cool drumming :D

HeavenIceDay

[QUOTE="br0kenrabbit"]

[QUOTE="jimmyjammer69"]

Drums are definitely tuned.

jimmyjammer69

See, that sounds great. Now listen to this. The drums sound...truncated.

[QUOTE="HeavenIceDay"]

Yeah Gavin is awesome. Check out this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKCIUpW3q9s So cool drumming :D

entropyecho

Gavin is under appreciated i think, people like Travis barker and Joey Jordison have nothing on him.jonnymcl2k

A lot of people like speed... so a lot of solos nowadays basically have guys performing bass drum rolls the entire time. There's no groove, no feel - it's all about fitting the most beats in a minute... bleh.

as far as how it sounds on an album... a lot of it has to do with how it was recorded. where are the mics? what kind of acoustics did the room have? was the engineer controlling the levels any good?

the same drummer can sound profoundly different from album to album, even with the same band.

listen to the first Foo Fighters album... the drums have A LOT of pop... you tend to hear the hit and not the reverb. likely they were mic'ed a little too close (but not so close that it distorted). Dave Grohl sounded much warmer on the Queens of the Stone Age album Songs for the Deaf. Better mic'ing, and most likely a far better studio, too. It makes a huge difference.

[QUOTE="jonnymcl2k"]Gavin is under appreciated i think, people like Travis barker and Joey Jordison have nothing on him.entropyecho

A lot of people like speed... so a lot of solos nowadays basically have guys performing bass drum rolls the entire time. There's no groove, no feel - it's all about fitting the most beats in a minute... bleh.

Drums are most definately tuned for sure. I (Semi-Professional Guitarist for 40 years) have also played just about everything in percussion (Tympani for 3 years) and Trap Sets as well for many years. I am particularly very critical on drummers because alot of them do not have groove when they play but are more concerned about speed than anything else. Three famous drummers come to mind when I think of groove in drumming... Buddy Rich, Carmine Appice, and Neil Peart. All three are trained in Jazz and that my friend is where you will find some of the best drummers in the world! :)

[QUOTE="jimmyjammer69"][QUOTE="br0kenrabbit"]

See, that sounds great. Now listen to this. The drums sound...truncated.

th3warr1or

The link was to the Smashing Pumpkins official 1979 video, sticking with Chamberlin and all.