English as the 'official language' of the United States

This topic has been going around lately, and it is an interesting topic all in it itself.

John Adams tried to make English the official language, but it was blocked by the other founding fathers because they felt it would make the US divided and ruin democracy, or something to that effect. Howevers, lately, some people want to make it the official language anyway.

I don't see what making English the official language will do to the US, other than make it harder on Immigrants. What they should be doing is promoting multilingual studies, it's sad when so many people only know English (and not very well). Those that know multiple languages excel at reading and comprehension, while those that don't...well, they don't.

What is the question?Jandurin

[QUOTE="Jandurin"]What is the question?Engrish_Major

Imo if I'm moving to a non-English speaking country I'm going to learn the language, it's a lot easy on the immigrants (in the long run) and the citizens. I would not be against making it the official language. Besides I new a girl from Russia once (yes that girl) and she said it took her all of three months to learn it.

I think we should discuss whether or not depictions of the 'hot' varieties of salsa in our media desensitizes our children to the horrors of mouth burn.Engrish_Major

Whilst it may not be recognised officially, I think given that it is the primary language spoken by the majority it is by default. No?

Whilst it may not be recognised officially, I think given that it is the primary language spoken by the majority it is by default. No?

dazman31

[QUOTE="Engrish_Major"][QUOTE="Jandurin"]What is the question?Jandurin

There is a benefit in having the citizens of your country able to communicate with each other.

[QUOTE="dazman31"]

Whilst it may not be recognised officially, I think given that it is the primary language spoken by the majority it is by default. No?

Willy105

I think given its prominence and recognition as the major (albeit unofficial) language of the country, people looking to immigrate to the US should have a basic level of English. I don't live in the US, but living in another western country (Australia) we do adopt somewhat of an approach for prospective citizens/residents. If you wish to live in a country I most certainly think you should adopt its language and its core cultural elements (although this to a lesser degree), not just leach off our economy and resources. You shouldmake an effort to integrate yourself into the society you wish to be apart of, not just simply live in it in an isolated bubble unable to interact with those who actually participate in the community.

I donno.

I kind of wish I did French immersion / or Canada forced French immersion. Because then I'd have another language!

France also has the language police in their country. I think partly because they are afraid the french language is being slowly eroded away.

[QUOTE="dazman31"]

Whilst it may not be recognised officially, I think given that it is the primary language spoken by the majority it is by default. No?

Willy105

English should be the official language, especially here in Texas. Tired of all you damn illegal immigrants. ColdExistence

[QUOTE="Willy105"][QUOTE="dazman31"]

Whilst it may not be recognised officially, I think given that it is the primary language spoken by the majority it is by default. No?

Engrish_Major

You could enforce it upon prospective citizens/residents via tests etc. thus ensuring a level of English. For those already there not subjected to them, well its practically impossible.

[QUOTE="ColdExistence"]English should be the official language, especially here in Texas. Tired of all you damn illegal immigrants. Jandurin

[QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="ColdExistence"]English should be the official language, especially here in Texas. Tired of all you damn illegal immigrants. ColdExistence

[QUOTE="Engrish_Major"][QUOTE="Willy105"] It would be an unofficial language. Everyone would expect you to speak it, but you can't really enforce it.dazman31

You could enforce it upon prospective citizens/residents via tests etc. thus ensuring a level of English. For those already there not subjected to them, well its practically impossible.

[QUOTE="dazman31"]

[QUOTE="Engrish_Major"] How could you enforce a spoken language? The only thing that would happen by making English official would be enforcement on government property, such as public schools and road signs, etc.Engrish_Major

You could enforce it upon prospective citizens/residents via tests etc. thus ensuring a level of English. For those already there not subjected to them, well its practically impossible.

Don't live in the US so couldnt tell you. I think it's done here in Australia though...

[QUOTE="Engrish_Major"][QUOTE="dazman31"]

You could enforce it upon prospective citizens/residents via tests etc. thus ensuring a level of English. For those already there not subjected to them, well its practically impossible.

dazman31

Don't live in the US so couldnt tell you. I think it's done here in Australia though...

You don't need to be naturalized to cross a border ^_^Jandurin

[QUOTE="Jandurin"]You don't need to be naturalized to cross a border ^_^Engrish_Major

You don't need to be naturalized to cross a border ^_^Jandurin

"Leg hair and beard must be this long to enter"

first thing I thought of when I read.

[QUOTE="Engrish_Major"][QUOTE="Jandurin"]You don't need to be naturalized to cross a border ^_^Jandurin

We're one of the only nations in the world where you do not have to bother learning the common language. In the end it costs us far more than it benifits us.

When I lived in Germany, I learned German. There was nothing but German documentation and if you tried to pull that "i need a document in my language", you would have been met with a "sorry, can't help you". When I came here, I didn't expect anyone to make sure everything is in my language. The only people that complain are Hispanics here.

When I lived in Germany, I kearned German. There was nothing but German documentation and if you tried to pull that "i need a document in my language", you would have been met with a "sorry, can't help you". When I came here, I didn't expect anyone to make sure everything is in my language. The only people that complain are Hispanics here. DevilMightCry

We're one of the only nations in the world where you do not have to bother learning the common language. In the end it costs us far more than it benifits us.

Wasdie

It doesn't really cost us, as learning the language is still required for functionality in most aspects. For instance, if you want to be a salesman you have to know English to suceed, if you want to be a migrant worker you may be able to get by simply by knowing someone who speaks English. Besides, it really is a lot of work to not pick up the major language of a country. Most people can learn a language within weeks simply by osmosis if they're placed within that speaking environment, so most people who don't know English are specifically surrounding themselves with only speakers of their native language. These people are often elderly and can get by perfectly fine not knowing the language. In fact, by the third generation of inhabitants, i.e. the grandchildren of the individuals who immigrated, their comprehension of their native language is far behind that of English, to the point where many such families become concerned about losing their cultural heritage.

Anyways, the only thing an official language really does is standardize the language used in an official manner, which typically just makes it unnecessarily harder on those who consciously choose not to learn the language and could otherwise function perfectly well without speaking it.

When I lived in Germany, I learned German. There was nothing but German documentation and if you tried to pull that "i need a document in my language", you would have been met with a "sorry, can't help you". When I came here, I didn't expect anyone to make sure everything is in my language. The only people that complain are Hispanics here.

DevilMightCry

We're one of the only nations in the world where you do not have to bother learning the common language. In the end it costs us far more than it benifits us.

Wasdie

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

We're one of the only nations in the world where you do not have to bother learning the common language. In the end it costs us far more than it benifits us.

theone86

It doesn't really cost us, as learning the language is still required for functionality in most aspects. For instance, if you want to be a salesman you have to know English to suceed, if you want to be a migrant worker you may be able to get by simply by knowing someone who speaks English. Besides, it really is a lot of work to not pick up the major language of a country. Most people can learn a language within weeks simply by osmosis if they're placed within that speaking environment, so most people who don't know English are specifically surrounding themselves with only speakers of their native language. These people are often elderly and can get by perfectly fine not knowing the language. In fact, by the third generation of inhabitants, i.e. the grandchildren of the individuals who immigrated, their comprehension of their native language is far behind that of English, to the point where many such families become concerned about losing their cultural heritage.

Anyways, the only thing an official language really does is standardize the language used in an official manner, which typically just makes it unnecessarily harder on those who consciously choose not to learn the language and could otherwise function perfectly well without speaking it.

I take it you've never had to deal with a group of people who spoke no english in any sort of business or governmental setting. If you did, you would quickly learn the cost.

I take it you've never had to deal with a group of people who spoke no english in any sort of business or governmental setting. If you did, you would quickly learn the cost.

Wasdie

How hard was it to pick German up while living there?
I'm trying to learn it in school. Progress isn't too bad, but living there for a while might be interesting and speed up the process of learning.

IcyToasters

I take it you've never had to deal with a group of people who spoke no english in any sort of business or governmental setting. If you did, you would quickly learn the cost.

Wasdie

[QUOTE="theone86"]

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

We're one of the only nations in the world where you do not have to bother learning the common language. In the end it costs us far more than it benifits us.

Wasdie

It doesn't really cost us, as learning the language is still required for functionality in most aspects. For instance, if you want to be a salesman you have to know English to suceed, if you want to be a migrant worker you may be able to get by simply by knowing someone who speaks English. Besides, it really is a lot of work to not pick up the major language of a country. Most people can learn a language within weeks simply by osmosis if they're placed within that speaking environment, so most people who don't know English are specifically surrounding themselves with only speakers of their native language. These people are often elderly and can get by perfectly fine not knowing the language. In fact, by the third generation of inhabitants, i.e. the grandchildren of the individuals who immigrated, their comprehension of their native language is far behind that of English, to the point where many such families become concerned about losing their cultural heritage.

Anyways, the only thing an official language really does is standardize the language used in an official manner, which typically just makes it unnecessarily harder on those who consciously choose not to learn the language and could otherwise function perfectly well without speaking it.

I take it you've never had to deal with a group of people who spoke no english in any sort of business or governmental setting. If you did, you would quickly learn the cost.

I have to wonder if you're dealing with individuals in that setting how they can come to prominenece in those areas without knowing English, or are you simply talking about the beurocratic cost such as printing different forms in order to deal with non English-speaking customers/voters? In the latter case, I don't see it as such an enourmous cost, and technological progress can help reduce that cost.

At first, overwhelming, then fairly easy because everyone speaks to you in German, and they're not trying to appease you with English everywhere you go. A lot of Germans speak sufficient English, and are willing to help. But then again, English isn't my first language and we (people from Balkans) have an easier time pronouncing German, then Americans.

DevilMightCry

Ah. Sounds good.

I can see the trouble when English is my first language. A lot of German and English words are similar, but other words and sentences have sounds next to each other that are hard to say at a consistent speed. At least at the moment!

Then there's umlauts. I have trouble distinguishing umlauted a's and even o's at times.

I have to wonder if you're dealing with individuals in that setting how they can come to prominenece in those areas without knowing English, or are you simply talking about the beurocratic cost such as printing different forms in order to deal with non English-speaking customers/voters? In the latter case, I don't see it as such an enourmous cost, and technological progress can help reduce that cost.

theone86

I don't know how pure spanish speaking or arabic speaking individuals make it to the middle of the midwest like they do, but they do.

The cost isn't just in dollar amounts, it's manhours lost by everybody trying to deal with them all because the people do not want to learn the common language of the area. It's also very illegal to not help somebody because they don't speak the same language so everybody has to put up with it. This leads to a lot of spending on a very small group of people to update everything to be in multiple langauges.

I'm all for diversity and cultures but there comes a point where the cons vastly outweigh the pros.

well , I don't live in the US, but Im not sure why English shouldn't be an official language, its the most widespead one.

if there are significant minority languages, they can also be recognised as official/recognised languages.

thats at least my view.

[QUOTE="theone86"]

I have to wonder if you're dealing with individuals in that setting how they can come to prominenece in those areas without knowing English, or are you simply talking about the beurocratic cost such as printing different forms in order to deal with non English-speaking customers/voters? In the latter case, I don't see it as such an enourmous cost, and technological progress can help reduce that cost.

Wasdie

I don't know how pure spanish speaking or arabic speaking individuals make it to the middle of the midwest like they do, but they do.

The cost isn't just in dollar amounts, it's manhours lost by everybody trying to deal with them all because the people do not want to learn the common language of the area. It's also very illegal to not help somebody because they don't speak the same language so everybody has to put up with it. This leads to a lot of spending on a very small group of people to update everything to be in multiple langauges.

I'm all for diversity and cultures but there comes a point where the cons vastly outweigh the pros.

Well, foeign language consultants are the cost of doing business. A universal trade language also might reduce costs of doing international business, but I don't think a lot of countries would be very eager to do that. Part of the solution, though, could be to encourage multilingualism in schools so that on the job training is unnecessary and multilingualism is rather looked for during job searches. One of the things the TC mentioned is multilingual classrooms, another would be to make language requirements for high schools stricter. This will reduce costs, encourage education, and not disrupt the lives of those who can manage to live without learning the language.

What does it mean if you have an official language? By default, english is the language of the US. It makes sense for people to speak it as it's much harder to succeed if you can't communicate with the citizens of your country. I think the "official" label is more symbolic.

[QUOTE="DevilMightCry"] At first, overwhelming, then fairly easy because everyone speaks to you in German, and they're not trying to appease you with English everywhere you go. A lot of Germans speak sufficient English, and are willing to help. But then again, English isn't my first language and we (people from Balkans) have an easier time pronouncing German, then Americans.

IcyToasters

Ah. Sounds good.

I can see the trouble when English is my first language. A lot of German and English words are similar, but other words and sentences have sounds next to each other that are hard to say at a consistent speed. At least at the moment!

Then there's umlauts. I have trouble distinguishing umlauted a's and even o's at times.

I thought Spanish is the official language now?

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

[QUOTE="theone86"]

I have to wonder if you're dealing with individuals in that setting how they can come to prominenece in those areas without knowing English, or are you simply talking about the beurocratic cost such as printing different forms in order to deal with non English-speaking customers/voters? In the latter case, I don't see it as such an enourmous cost, and technological progress can help reduce that cost.

theone86

I don't know how pure spanish speaking or arabic speaking individuals make it to the middle of the midwest like they do, but they do.

The cost isn't just in dollar amounts, it's manhours lost by everybody trying to deal with them all because the people do not want to learn the common language of the area. It's also very illegal to not help somebody because they don't speak the same language so everybody has to put up with it. This leads to a lot of spending on a very small group of people to update everything to be in multiple langauges.

I'm all for diversity and cultures but there comes a point where the cons vastly outweigh the pros.

Well, foeign language consultants are the cost of doing business. A universal trade language also might reduce costs of doing international business, but I don't think a lot of countries would be very eager to do that. Part of the solution, though, could be to encourage multilingualism in schools so that on the job training is unnecessary and multilingualism is rather looked for during job searches. One of the things the TC mentioned is multilingual classrooms, another would be to make language requirements for high schools stricter. This will reduce costs, encourage education, and not disrupt the lives of those who can manage to live without learning the language.

The problem with teaching various languages to a level where you can have a general understanding is, which language do you teach who? I mean for years our schools in the midwest have taught basic spanish, french, or german. However we now have arabic, indian, chinese, japanese... it's a never ending cycle.

Bascially because the diversity is so high a standard language is needed.

What does it mean if you have an official language? By default, english is the language of the US. It makes sense for people to speak it as it's much harder to succeed if you can't communicate with the citizens of your country. I think the "official" label is more symbolic.

sonicare

It means you print official forms only in English and perhaps that legal citizenship is contigent on a minimum level of proficiency in English.