[QUOTE="Rhazakna"]I've never understood the notion that having a fictional character with negative traits somehow reflects on how the author/creator views the group(s) said character is a part of. GTA V has always been filled with characters who are vile people, and most of them are men. Why isn't it misandrist, then? Or racist? People who think that GTA is misogynist are saying a lot more about how they view women than how Rockstar does. Fictional character A represents themselves, not their group. These kinds of criticisms are inevitably leveled by uncreative people who don't know shit about how the creative people craft characters.tryagainlaterBut at least there are male characters who actually do something important in these games. Female characters basically only exist for Rockstar's satire. I don't actually think Rockstar are sexist for leaving women out of the story; they probably just don't see women as a part of the story they're crafting. Still, Carolyn should be free to bring up these kind of points as it is an industry problem. It's interesting to see a video game review be something a little more than a mere product review that you see everywhere else. It's why I basically never read reviews anymore. I don't think it should be used as a criteria in a review however. Reviews should ONLY be about the game itself. Not political ideology. If that is the problem with the review....I haven't read it yet....but it shouldn't be an aspect of the review score. Perhaps a blog or feature.
Feedbackula - Johnny deserves a medal & community need to appologize to Caro
This topic is locked from further discussion.
[QUOTE="Rhazakna"]I've never understood the notion that having a fictional character with negative traits somehow reflects on how the author/creator views the group(s) said character is a part of. GTA V has always been filled with characters who are vile people, and most of them are men. Why isn't it misandrist, then? Or racist? People who think that GTA is misogynist are saying a lot more about how they view women than how Rockstar does. Fictional character A represents themselves, not their group. These kinds of criticisms are inevitably leveled by uncreative people who don't know shit about how the creative people craft characters.tryagainlaterBut at least there are male characters who actually do something important in these games. Female characters basically only exist for Rockstar's satire. I don't actually think Rockstar are sexist for leaving women out of the story; they probably just don't see women as a part of the story they're crafting. Still, Carolyn should be free to bring up these kind of points as it is an industry problem. It's interesting to see a video game review be something a little more than a mere product review that you see everywhere else. It's why I basically never read reviews anymore. You never read reviews because they review the games and not force SJW BS down our throats?
[QUOTE="Rhazakna"]I've never understood the notion that having a fictional character with negative traits somehow reflects on how the author/creator views the group(s) said character is a part of. GTA V has always been filled with characters who are vile people, and most of them are men. Why isn't it misandrist, then? Or racist? People who think that GTA is misogynist are saying a lot more about how they view women than how Rockstar does. Fictional character A represents themselves, not their group. These kinds of criticisms are inevitably leveled by uncreative people who don't know shit about how the creative people craft characters.tryagainlaterBut at least there are male characters who actually do something important in these games. Female characters basically only exist for Rockstar's satire. I don't actually think Rockstar are sexist for leaving women out of the story; they probably just don't see women as a part of the story they're crafting. Still, Carolyn should be free to bring up these kind of points as it is an industry problem. It's interesting to see a video game review be something a little more than a mere product review that you see everywhere else. It's why I basically never read reviews anymore. I don't see why grinding a political axe is good for game reviews. I'm staunchly anti-war, but if I was reviewing CoD or Battlefield I would leave that out of it, since nobody would or should take me seriously for complaining about the glorification of modern combat in games. It would be one thing if I wrote on my own website that I the ubiquity of war games is a pet-peeve of mine, but if I'm being paid by a company to review games, I should leave my personal convictions at the door and talk about the product. The woman who reviewed it not only called it misogynistic, but "deeply misogynistic". Not having female characters matter in the narrative isn't anymore misogynistic than not having Asian characters would be racist. It's absurd. Moreover, the gangster genre of any medium is male dominated, for obvious reasons. The vast majority of gangsters are men. Having characters reflect that makes sense. I do agree that the supporting cast of GTA V could be stronger (regardless of gender), but that's always been an issue in GTA. You get introduced to a bunch of crazy characters, but they sift in and out of the narrative, and its rare that one stays from beginning to end. The plot structures of GTA have always bugged me, but that's not really relevant. The lack of female characters isn't an industry issue. If there was a profit motive when it came to increasing the number of female protagonists, it would be done
No.
[QUOTE="tryagainlater"][QUOTE="Rhazakna"]I've never understood the notion that having a fictional character with negative traits somehow reflects on how the author/creator views the group(s) said character is a part of. GTA V has always been filled with characters who are vile people, and most of them are men. Why isn't it misandrist, then? Or racist? People who think that GTA is misogynist are saying a lot more about how they view women than how Rockstar does. Fictional character A represents themselves, not their group. These kinds of criticisms are inevitably leveled by uncreative people who don't know shit about how the creative people craft characters.RhazaknaBut at least there are male characters who actually do something important in these games. Female characters basically only exist for Rockstar's satire. I don't actually think Rockstar are sexist for leaving women out of the story; they probably just don't see women as a part of the story they're crafting. Still, Carolyn should be free to bring up these kind of points as it is an industry problem. It's interesting to see a video game review be something a little more than a mere product review that you see everywhere else. It's why I basically never read reviews anymore. I don't see why grinding a political axe is good for game reviews. I'm staunchly anti-war, but if I was reviewing CoD or Battlefield I would leave that out of it, since nobody would or should take me seriously for complaining about the glorification of modern combat in games. It would be one thing if I wrote on my own website that I the ubiquity of war games is a pet-peeve of mine, but if I'm being paid by a company to review games, I should leave my personal convictions at the door and talk about the product. The woman who reviewed it not only called it misogynistic, but "deeply misogynistic". Not having female characters matter in the narrative isn't anymore misogynistic than not having Asian characters would be racist. It's absurd. Moreover, the gangster genre of any medium is male dominated, for obvious reasons. The vast majority of gangsters are men. Having characters reflect that makes sense. I do agree that the supporting cast of GTA V could be stronger (regardless of gender), but that's always been an issue in GTA. You get introduced to a bunch of crazy characters, but they sift in and out of the narrative, and its rare that one stays from beginning to end. The plot structures of GTA have always bugged me, but that's not really relevant. The lack of female characters isn't an industry issue. If there was a profit motive when it came to increasing the number of female protagonists, it would be doneI agree with you that I don't think it's misogynistic. I was defending her right to bring up these kinds of things and she thinks it's misogynistic. You disagree which is cool. I still think a lack of female characters is a problem but not one from a hatred of women. You want a product review of games which every other video game website on the internet offers so you're not exactly lacking it. I'm personally bored of the same old introduction - summary of story - gameplay features reviewer liked - gameplay features reviewer didn't like - conclusion so I was interested to see Carolyn offer something a little different. It allows for some discussion on these types of issues whether you agree there's a problem there or not. Maybe it isn't right for a review and better suited to a feature as LJ suggested but it doesn't deserve this type of backlash. Also, just because it was in "the bad" doesn't mean Carolyn would have definitely given the game a 10 if there were better female characters. Like Kevin VanOrd said, the score doesn't start at 10 and is subtracted. She may have still felt it was a 9 experience which I felt when I played it myself.
Also, do you seriously not think a lack of female chracters in games isn't an industry problem. Publishers think all white male players only want to see white male characters. Naughty Dog had to fight to have Ellie simply just be on the box art for The Last of Us incase gamers were freaked out by a girl. Naughty Dog won that argument and low and behold, that game sold well. Bioshock Infinite had a similiar problem I believe and Elizabeth was demoted to the back of the box. How can you simply say this isn't an industry problem?
Why do people care about a score on a game website anyway? I have no idea who this Johnny fellow is, but I did see the review. Like many reviews on the internet, I didn't agree with it. I'm not going to spend my time insulting a person because I don't agree with their review. People that do this have way too much time on their hands, and will probably be living in their parents basement trolling the internet for the rest of their awful lives.
Anyone bashing a GTA game for being offensive is making themselves an easy target. No offense, but I'm not sure how they even expected to publish that review without getting backlash. Making the point that the game is offensive to women, while ignoring the fact that it's actually offensive to everyone - is really obtuse and stands out to people.It's not really bashing the game. It was a very positive review with some valid criticisms.Â[QUOTE="Maddie_Larkin"]
Well I never expected the net to be filled with intelligent people in the first place, but the comments for that specific review is pretty darn grim.
I think he deserves praise for lamenting how abusive alot of people are in their wording, even if you disagree with the review some people genuinly seemed pissed. If that pisses you off, then you really don't belong in any gaming site, becuase no reviewers has your specific taste. I disagree with alot of Caro's points but sure ain't annoyied by them, I know her personality, and thus I can decide if the critiques would have been my own.
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And while this seem a bit out of place in OT, I suppose it might be one of the better places to place this topic, given hwo it is not about a review, but how people act on this site.
I suppose a purge round might be in order. (sadly alot of those borderline insane people will come running right back)
Mcspanky37
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