Feminism?

This past week I've really taking a interest in gender studies and I have come to notice that the term "feminist" is rather convuluted without any definite meaning. I mean I belive in equal legal rights and treatment as well as the abolishment of the glass cealing and what not.

I am aware of sexism and the propagation of gender roles through advertising as well as subtle ways in our culture but I don't agree with certain ideals like the changing of women to womyn on the grounds that its sepratist and drives us apart instead of together. I belive that gender roles are mostly tought by society rather than some inate property.Does tha t make me a feminist? Cause alot of it is really sexist in its own right too of not preaching an us and them mentality that borders on the insane. Some feminists have even advocated the creation of two seperate societies of males and females and some even go so far as to advocate male genocide and that all females are inherintly lesbians.

I mean sure our society is sexist but is changing the english language to remove words like fireman or mailman realy going to change anything? I am aware that men get certain privliges in our world that are unfair to women but they do too abiet less often than men.

Women and men should be equal is all I'm saying. Everything else I don't care.Nifty_Shark

How many women are efficient as men when it comes to things like construction?

[QUOTE="Nifty_Shark"]Women and men should be equal is all I'm saying. Everything else I don't care.dmc333

How many women are efficient as men when it comes to things like construction?

Their are many women who are skilled enough to work in construction. How bout we base things on an idividuals ability rather than saying you cant do this job because your a woman and might get hurt.

[QUOTE="Nifty_Shark"]Women and men should be equal is all I'm saying. Everything else I don't care.dmc333

How many women are efficient as men when it comes to things like construction?

how many men are efficient as women when it comes to things like cooking?

LOL

edit: JK in case you didnt notice.   had to do it!

[QUOTE="dmc333"]

[QUOTE="Nifty_Shark"]Women and men should be equal is all I'm saying. Everything else I don't care.peppersfan2

How many women are efficient as men when it comes to things like construction?

Their are many women who are skilled enough to work in construction. How bout we base things on an idividuals ability rather than saying you cant do this job because your a woman and might get hurt.

I did not say there are not any women that are efficient as men. I asked how many...

[QUOTE="peppersfan2"][QUOTE="dmc333"]

How many women are efficient as men when it comes to things like construction?

dmc333

Their are many women who are skilled enough to work in construction. How bout we base things on an idividuals ability rather than saying you cant do this job because your a woman and might get hurt.

I did not say there are not any women that are efficient as men. I asked how many...

3... but, actually that's a bad comparison. Use a more equal profession, like teaching. How many women get 'tracked' into administration vs. men? More women are teachers, but more men hold upper tier management.

Peppers, I was a women studies major until the seperatists turned me off to it. I think you're issue is much like mine was... being turned off by the extremes. Many women fall into their own sexism and gender stereotypes that they rail men for. Changing semantics isn't going to change anything, especially when 'man' is an umbrella term for 'humans'. I see it as all encompassing and don't need to change it to fit my politics.

I mean sure our society is sexist but is changing the english language to remove words like fireman or mailman realy going to change anything? I am aware that men get certain privliges in our world that are unfair to women but they do too abiet less often than men.

peppersfan2

The terms for those 2 careers are: fire fighter and mail carrier. If a man wants to call himself a "fireman", I have no objection. But to call the career with the term "man"? A bit much.

[QUOTE="dmc333"][QUOTE="peppersfan2"]

 

Their are many women who are skilled enough to work in construction. How bout we base things on an idividuals ability rather than saying you cant do this job because your a woman and might get hurt.

siren420

I did not say there are not any women that are efficient as men. I asked how many...

3... but, actually that's a bad comparison. Use a more equal profession, like teaching. How many women get 'tracked' into administration vs. men? More women are teachers, but more men hold upper tier management.

Peppers, I was a women studies major until the seperatists turned me off to it. I think you're issue is much like mine was... being turned off by the extremes. Many women fall into their own sexism and gender stereotypes that they rail men for. Changing semantics isn't going to change anything, especially when 'man' is an umbrella term for 'humans'. I see it as all encompassing and don't need to change it to fit my politics.

That is a point I can agree. But people want women to be as equal as men, correct? from what the second poster meant. But how is a gender suppossed to be equal, when we are all different to begin with? And many women do not want what many feminists want. 

[QUOTE="dmc333"][QUOTE="peppersfan2"]

Their are many women who are skilled enough to work in construction. How bout we base things on an idividuals ability rather than saying you cant do this job because your a woman and might get hurt.

siren420

I did not say there are not any women that are efficient as men. I asked how many...

3... but, actually that's a bad comparison. Use a more equal profession, like teaching. How many women get 'tracked' into administration vs. men? More women are teachers, but more men hold upper tier management.

Peppers, I was a women studies major until the seperatists turned me off to it. I think you're issue is much like mine was... being turned off by the extremes. Many women fall into their own sexism and gender stereotypes that they rail men for. Changing semantics isn't going to change anything, especially when 'man' is an umbrella term for 'humans'. I see it as all encompassing and don't need to change it to fit my politics.

I guess you could say that I'm for equal opourtunnitys of individuals as a whole rather than inane distinctions. Their seems to be alot of backbiting within the feminist community itself about what one is. They all seem to hate the other factions.

[QUOTE="Nifty_Shark"]Women and men should be equal is all I'm saying. Everything else I don't care.dmc333

How many women are efficient as men when it comes to things like construction?

what I mean is that one shouldn't say "you get less pay cause you don't have a penis .I really don't care about feminist arguments and such.

I hate femenists. I'm all for equal rights, but femenists often do more damage then good. I have to learn a couple of studies for Criminology and Juvenile Delinquancy, and more often than not you just have some femenist ranting about how women can do no wrong and any woman doing criminal acts is venting her frustration of a male dominated society out onto the world.

Equal rights is fine, but there are certain tasks men and women are better/worse than each other at. That isn't to say they should be paid differently, however.

Whenever someone brings up feminism I just off. I think it is completely stupid. Men and women are NOT equal! Why do men run on average faster than women? Why have they made a separate category for men in gymnastics?...cause women are better at it and would consistently beat them.ice_radon

These take into biological differences and are not the topic of debate. You're bringing up indisputable differences... disputable differences are tied to societal gender norms, like a man/woman in the same job who get vastly different pay(i believe it's still 71 cents female to every male a dollar earns). That's what women are debating as feminists, not whether or not we have seperate groups at the olympics.