Free Will and Intervention: Why God Can Still Step In

Whenever someone asks something like, "Why can't God stop wars, violence, etc.?" the common response is to say that doing so would infringe on our free will; after all, humans are responsible for the violence, so wouldn't stopping them from being violent contradict their free will? Not necessarily. Imagine, if you will, that someone on the street comes up to you with a gun, threatening you for your money. Given the circumstances, you don't have any way to get out of the situation. Then someone comes along--a cop, or a random civilian, whoever--and stops the person, in any given way. So who's free will did he infringe upon by intervening? The answer is: no one's. Sure, he kept the crook from shooting you (something I trust you wouldn't object to), but the crook still has free will. He can still do anything that's physically possible for him. So what is there to stop God from intervening in a similar way? As long as he isn't brainwashing us, and forcing us to do something, without any possibility of dissent, the matter of free will is irrelevant. So answer me this: why does God not step in and try to stop the violence?

Contrary to popular belief.. there is no such thing as free will.

What you leave out here is the cop himself also has (and uses, in your example) free will. Preventing violence is not God's job -- it can be argued that God has nothing to do with whether or not you're happy on Earth. It can also be argued that violence is eventually necessary for true happiness to exist.

But I think violence and the truly bad stuff needs to exist in order to keep what is good and bad in perspective.

maybe the reason he doesn't intervene is... because he doesn't exist.mfp16

maybe the reason he doesn't intervene is... because he doesn't exist.mfp16

What you leave out here is the cop himself also has (and uses, in your example) free will. Preventing violence is not God's job -- it can be argued that God has nothing to do with whether or not you're happy on Earth. It can also be argued that violence is eventually necessary for true happiness to exist.

But I think violence and the truly bad stuff needs to exist in order to keep what is good and bad in perspective.

Theokhoth

theists when faced with a situation that makes no sense if there was indeed was a god always come with more far fetched arguments...mfp16

You mean, philosophical arguments adapt and change and improve over time? My God.

It's not far-fetched if you think about it.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

What you leave out here is the cop himself also has (and uses, in your example) free will. Preventing violence is not God's job -- it can be argued that God has nothing to do with whether or not you're happy on Earth. It can also be argued that violence is eventually necessary for true happiness to exist.

But I think violence and the truly bad stuff needs to exist in order to keep what is good and bad in perspective.

mfp16

Everybody's a victim of violence.

Enough with the freaking religion threads already:x:cry: ...Cause thats just the way god rolls. Hail Odin Darth-Caeuds Darth-Caedus

agreed...

What you leave out here is the cop himself also has (and uses, in your example) free will. Preventing violence is not God's job -- it can be argued that God has nothing to do with whether or not you're happy on Earth. It can also be argued that violence is eventually necessary for true happiness to exist.

Theokhoth

[QUOTE="mfp16"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

What you leave out here is the cop himself also has (and uses, in your example) free will. Preventing violence is not God's job -- it can be argued that God has nothing to do with whether or not you're happy on Earth. It can also be argued that violence is eventually necessary for true happiness to exist.

But I think violence and the truly bad stuff needs to exist in order to keep what is good and bad in perspective.

Theokhoth

Everybody's a victim of violence.

Enough with the freaking religion threads already:x:cry: ...Cause thats just the way god rolls. Hail Odin Darth-Caeuds Darth-Caedus

Indeed. Or, as has already been said, maybe it's simply because God does not exist.

In Thor,

chessmaster1989

Contrary to popular belief.. there is no such thing as free will.

EMOEVOLUTION

[QUOTE="mfp16"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

What you leave out here is the cop himself also has (and uses, in your example) free will. Preventing violence is not God's job -- it can be argued that God has nothing to do with whether or not you're happy on Earth. It can also be argued that violence is eventually necessary for true happiness to exist.

But I think violence and the truly bad stuff needs to exist in order to keep what is good and bad in perspective.

Theokhoth

Everybody's a victim of violence.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

What you leave out here is the cop himself also has (and uses, in your example) free will. Preventing violence is not God's job -- it can be argued that God has nothing to do with whether or not you're happy on Earth. It can also be argued that violence is eventually necessary for true happiness to exist.

Crypto138

Arguably. I don't really believe that.

but the same can be said of the average good Samaritan.

You're absolutely right.

What if it was just some random person on the street who saved you?

I'd be very grateful.

Even if God isn't obligated to help us, shouldn't he do it anyway, out of kindness?

Depends. Do you want happiness in the short term or the long term? What is required for happiness? What is happiness?

What does it say if an average person is more willing to save people than the God who created them, and who professed infinite love for them?

What is love?

Yes, I'm already aware of the idea that God might be intending for people to learn from their mistakes, as a parent would let their kid learn from their mistakes, instead of simply saying "don't do that", but if your kid continues to stick a fork in the electrical outlet, aren't you gonna eventually pull them away, or just let them shock themselves to death?

The former.

Enough with the freaking religion threads already:x:cry: Darth-Caedus

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="mfp16"] sounds like a pretty raw deal for the victims of that violence...Crypto138

Everybody's a victim of violence.

Well we either have two choices, either God deals with evil now or he deals with evil later. If he deals with it now, he wipes out the entire planet and everyone deservingly goes to hell. If he deals with it later, we get a chance to repent and trust in Christ Jesus our savior so some of us can go to heaven.... then he wipes out the entire planet and everyone else deservingly goes to hell. God is already stepping in and showing his great mercy by letting us humans, who are all evil, a chance to live and a chance to turn to him. Silenthps

Your entire post relies on the god in question being the God of Christianity... :|

So, since we've established that we don't have absolute free will, and that, hypothetically, God could have taken other abilities from us, such as flying, and we still get along fine, why not take away an aspect of free will that's more of a hindrance than anything else? We can't fly, we can't see in ultraviolet, we can't do a whole lot of things, so why not be unable to kill?Crypto138

Contrary to popular belief.. there is no such thing as free will.

EMOEVOLUTION

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

[QUOTE="Silenthps"]Well we either have two choices, either God deals with evil now or he deals with evil later. If he deals with it now, he wipes out the entire planet and everyone deservingly goes to hell. If he deals with it later, we get a chance to repent and trust in Christ Jesus our savior so some of us can go to heaven.... then he wipes out the entire planet and everyone else deservingly goes to hell. God is already stepping in and showing his great mercy by letting us humans, who are all evil, a chance to live and a chance to turn to him. Silenthps

Your entire post relies on the god in question being the God of Christianity... :|

No, that is an assumption. Nice try, though. ;)

[QUOTE="EMOEVOLUTION"]

Contrary to popular belief.. there is no such thing as free will.

xaos

Wouldn't this would be a little like the referee at a football game letting Team A start on Team B's 10 yard line because he'd prefer to see Team A win. The ref may not be infringing on anyone's free will, but he's certainly stealing the natural outcome of the game from both teams.

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

[QUOTE="Silenthps"]Well we either have two choices, either God deals with evil now or he deals with evil later. If he deals with it now, he wipes out the entire planet and everyone deservingly goes to hell. If he deals with it later, we get a chance to repent and trust in Christ Jesus our savior so some of us can go to heaven.... then he wipes out the entire planet and everyone else deservingly goes to hell. God is already stepping in and showing his great mercy by letting us humans, who are all evil, a chance to live and a chance to turn to him. Silenthps

Your entire post relies on the god in question being the God of Christianity... :|

[QUOTE="Silenthps"][QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

Your entire post relies on the god in question being the God of Christianity... :|

chessmaster1989

No, that is an assumption. Nice try, though. ;)

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

[QUOTE="Silenthps"] Well he's the only God that exist :|Silenthps

No, that is an assumption. Nice try, though. ;)

[QUOTE="Silenthps"][QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

Your entire post relies on the god in question being the God of Christianity... :|

mfp16

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

[QUOTE="Silenthps"] Well he's the only God that exist :|Silenthps

No, that is an assumption. Nice try, though. ;)

[QUOTE="Silenthps"][QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

No, that is an assumption. Nice try, though. ;)

Teenaged

Wouldn't this would be a little like the referee at a football game letting Team A start on Team B's 10 yard line because he'd prefer to see Team A win. The ref may not be infringing on anyone's free will, but he's certainly stealing the natural outcome of the game from both teams.

Schwah

[QUOTE="mfp16"][QUOTE="Silenthps"] Well he's the only God that exist :|Silenthps

[QUOTE="Silenthps"]

[QUOTE="mfp16"] I disagree... I don't think he exists at all... (see, we both can do it)!hamstergeddon

contributing if God doesn't help me then why should i give a crap about him hmmm XD4NTESINF3RNOX

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Silenthps"] It's not an assumption, He told me so...Silenthps

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

[QUOTE="Silenthps"] Well he's the only God that exist :|Silenthps

No, that is an assumption. Nice try, though. ;)

I don't know if you're being serious, but I'll just post this. Hearing a voice in your head doesn't constitute proof.