Free Will? Do we have it?

I've been doing a lot of reading on the arguments for or against free will, and I find it all very interesting. What do you all think, do we have free will, or is everything already laid out for us ahead of time?

My personal belief is that if we do have free will, it lies in the quantum mechanical world.

yes, I have Freewill, it's on my computer actually. :)JoshXXXXX

Hahaha, you win the prize. *hands over a cookie*

Yes...but to a limited extent. We don't have the power or capability to do everything we want to...Fortier

[QUOTE="JoshXXXXX"]yes, I have Freewill, it's on my computer actually. :)drewtwo99

[QUOTE="Fortier"]Yes...but to a limited extent. We don't have the power or capability to do everything we want to...darkfox101

Hehe, it's good to find people like that who can sum things up better than you yourself can.

I think we do...mainly because I don't buy any of that religious malarkey.luke1889

There logical arguments against free will that do not rely on religious beliefs at all.

[QUOTE="luke1889"]I think we do...mainly because I don't buy any of that religious malarkey.drewtwo99

There logical arguments against free will that do not rely on religious beliefs at all.

Sorry, I got carried away. :P

Even so, I still think we do.

Free will is a very tricky one. For a long time it looked like the answer was no because god knew everything we would do which means we have no real free will, it might have looked likeour choices but really everything was inevitable. Then along came advances in science which lead to people questioning god which seemed to indicate we do have free will. But the more advanced we got the more deterministic the universe became and it once again seemed like everything was inevitable since we are made of the same stuff as everything else and are subject to the same laws that govern the rest of the universe. We appeared to be little more than cogs in a giant machine.

Then came the huge advance of quantum mechanics and physics which showed the universe to be just the apparently random interactions of forces on the sub atomic level. Now i'm not sure if this means we have free will or if everything is random but i am pretty certain there is no destiny, fate or pre-planned future

Free will is a very tricky one. For a long time it looked like the answer was no because god knew everything we would do which means we have no real free will, it might have looked likeour choices but really everything was inevitable. Then along came advances in science which lead to people questioning god which seemed to indicate we do have free will. But the more advanced we got the more deterministic the universe became and it once again seemed like everything was inevitable since we are made of the same stuff as everything else and are subject to the same laws that govern the rest of the universe. We appeared to be little more than cogs in a giant machine.

Then came the huge advance of quantum mechanics and physics which showed the universe to be just the apparently random interactions of forces on the sub atomic level. Now i'm not sure if this means we have free will or if everything is random but i am pretty certain there is no destiny, fate or pre-planned future

erc500

What guy?erc500

Yeah... you know.... the one.

[QUOTE="erc500"]What guy?drewtwo99

Yeah... you know.... the one.

Oh, the one, of course, i know who you mean. Can't argue with that guy

Yes......but you will have consequences for your actions....be they legal, emotional, etc.LJS9502_basic

We may or may not have free will, but your correct, we must assume that we do in terms of the law and relationships otherwise society would crumble as people use the lack of free will as an excuse for doing anything

[QUOTE="drewtwo99"]

[QUOTE="erc500"]What guy?erc500

Yeah... you know.... the one.

Oh, the one, of course, i know who you mean. Can't argue with that guy

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Yes......but you will have consequences for your actions....be they legal, emotional, etc.erc500

We may or may not have free will, but your correct, we must assume that we do in terms of the law and relationships otherwise society would crumble as people use the lack of free will as an excuse for doing anything

You've never had a decision to make and weighed it...then selected?

[QUOTE="erc500"][QUOTE="drewtwo99"]

[QUOTE="erc500"]What guy?darkfox101

Yeah... you know.... the one.

Oh, the one, of course, i know who you mean. Can't argue with that guy

Is it Nostradumus your thinking of? And if it is, he has been pretty much shown to be a mad man with about as much abiltiy to predict the future as a rock does

[QUOTE="erc500"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Yes......but you will have consequences for your actions....be they legal, emotional, etc.LJS9502_basic

We may or may not have free will, but your correct, we must assume that we do in terms of the law and relationships otherwise society would crumble as people use the lack of free will as an excuse for doing anything

You've never had a decision to make and weighed it...then selected?

The question lies not in whether or not you had different options and then chose one, the question lies in whether or not you were destined to make that choice given all the circumstances and natural physical laws that had manifested up until that point.

According to Nietzsche, Confuscious has no free will.

Confuscious' response? 'Name go in book.'

Everyone has opportunities that they have to make. But most people go with what is expected of them. Sometimes they don't. That is free will in that you have choices. You can't predict the future, and nothing is laid out ahead of time. holdenlowe

You may appear to have choices but how can you be sure that you really do, it is possible that there is only one choice you could make.

I'm going to try and explain this idea but its kinda of tricky. When the universe began with the big bang all theatoms were flung out and set in motion and they began interacting with each other in amazingly complicated ways, becoming increasingly complicated as time went on, eventually some of them came together to make up humans. The atoms (and sub atomic particles) that make us up are subject to the same laws the govern all the others, so what looks like a free choice could really be just the inevitable interactions of forces between the particles in our bodies

In other words, The big bang set up the initial conditions and since we are made up of the same atoms we are just part of the giant machine that is the universe.

I havent explained it well and i don't really believe it myself but hopefully you get what i mean

Free will is a very tricky one. For a long time it looked like the answer was no because god knew everything we would do which means we have no real free will, it might have looked likeour choices but really everything was inevitable. Then along came advances in science which lead to people questioning god which seemed to indicate we do have free will. But the more advanced we got the more deterministic the universe became and it once again seemed like everything was inevitable since we are made of the same stuff as everything else and are subject to the same laws that govern the rest of the universe. We appeared to be little more than cogs in a giant machine.

Then came the huge advance of quantum mechanics and physics which showed the universe to be just the apparently random interactions of forces on the sub atomic level. Now i'm not sure if this means we have free will or if everything is random but i am pretty certain there is no destiny, fate or pre-planned future

erc500

THat made no sense at all, what does the fact that the universe doesn't treat us special depend on free will?

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="erc500"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Yes......but you will have consequences for your actions....be they legal, emotional, etc.drewtwo99

We may or may not have free will, but your correct, we must assume that we do in terms of the law and relationships otherwise society would crumble as people use the lack of free will as an excuse for doing anything

You've never had a decision to make and weighed it...then selected?

The question lies not in whether or not you had different options and then chose one, the question lies in whether or not you were destined to make that choice given all the circumstances and natural physical laws that had manifested up until that point.

If you can think and reason...then you make your own decision. It's a cop out for bad decision making to blame it on something else.

Yes......but you will have consequences for your actions....be they legal, emotional, etc.LJS9502_basic

cant you put your sonic guy back? :D

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Yes......but you will have consequences for your actions....be they legal, emotional, etc.mimic-Denmark

cant you put your sonic guy back? :D

Noooooo....I like to change occasionally. He'll be around though....

[QUOTE="erc500"]

Free will is a very tricky one. For a long time it looked like the answer was no because god knew everything we would do which means we have no real free will, it might have looked likeour choices but really everything was inevitable. Then along came advances in science which lead to people questioning god which seemed to indicate we do have free will. But the more advanced we got the more deterministic the universe became and it once again seemed like everything was inevitable since we are made of the same stuff as everything else and are subject to the same laws that govern the rest of the universe. We appeared to be little more than cogs in a giant machine.

Then came the huge advance of quantum mechanics and physics which showed the universe to be just the apparently random interactions of forces on the sub atomic level. Now i'm not sure if this means we have free will or if everything is random but i am pretty certain there is no destiny, fate or pre-planned future

TongHua

THat made no sense at all, what does the fact that the universe doesn't treat us special depend on free will?

He's making the big mistake of looking at the results of the physical laws that we have to abide by and making it seem like they are the ones that plan our future.

Sub-atomic particles follow their own rules, and those rules don't involve "slap this person in the face and cause the next world war."

We have free will and in order to execute that free will, we have to do it within the laws of the universe. In other words, I can't say I'm going to jump off of this planet with my bare feet and actually accomplish it. There are laws that would prevent me from doing that.

He's making the big mistake of looking at the results of the physical laws that we have to abide by and making it seem like they are the ones that plan our future.

Sub-atomic particles follow their own rules, and those rules don't involve "slap this person in the face and cause the next world war."

We have free will and in order to execute that free will, we have to do it within the laws of the universe. In other words, I can't say I'm going to jump off of this planet with my bare feet and actually accomplish it. There are laws that would prevent me from doing that.

DeeJayInphinity

But....you have the free will to try.:D

I do think we have free will, but our motives, choices and actions are all influenced by our environment.

I say we should free Will, what's he doing in jail anyway?Brainkiller05

DUI.. shame on him

I think we have free will, but there are choices that we are destined to make. Like, it's written in stone that we'll make a certain choice in a certain place. Despite that, though, it's still our choice to make, so we still do have free will.AquaMantor

Dude your statements are contradictions....and no decision is set in stone.

[QUOTE="Brainkiller05"]I say we should free Will, what's he doing in jail anyway?cjek

DUI.. shame on him

Free Will :o

[QUOTE="TongHua"][QUOTE="erc500"]

Free will is a very tricky one. For a long time it looked like the answer was no because god knew everything we would do which means we have no real free will, it might have looked likeour choices but really everything was inevitable. Then along came advances in science which lead to people questioning god which seemed to indicate we do have free will. But the more advanced we got the more deterministic the universe became and it once again seemed like everything was inevitable since we are made of the same stuff as everything else and are subject to the same laws that govern the rest of the universe. We appeared to be little more than cogs in a giant machine.

Then came the huge advance of quantum mechanics and physics which showed the universe to be just the apparently random interactions of forces on the sub atomic level. Now i'm not sure if this means we have free will or if everything is random but i am pretty certain there is no destiny, fate or pre-planned future

DeeJayInphinity

THat made no sense at all, what does the fact that the universe doesn't treat us special depend on free will?

He's making the big mistake of looking at the results of the physical laws that we have to abide by and making it seem like they are the ones that plan our future.

Sub-atomic particles follow their own rules, and those rules don't involve "slap this person in the face and cause the next world war."

We have free will and in order to execute that free will, we have to do it within the laws of the universe. In other words, I can't say I'm going to jump off of this planet with my bare feet and actually accomplish it. There are laws that would prevent me from doing that.

I'm pretty sure that he's saying that every choice we make is based upon physical factors that we cannot see on the sub-atomic level, but our mind has created self-concept to make it seem as though we have a choice, but I don't think he is saying that we have the power to defy the laws of physics that have been laid out.

My idea is that the mind created the illusion of self-concept, wich means that even though it may seem like we have a choice, we technically do not. And I do believe in pre-destenation to a certain extent, in that everything has been set in motion given that all factors have been put into play, therefore everything is supposed to happen a certain way, but it is supposed to appear random to us.

Really, it's a hard concept to explain, and I hate trying to explain it, because I can't ever explain it correctly the first time without extra questions, and the ideas behind it have been in my mind since the eighth grade. But the gist of it is that everything is going to happen a certain way, and we all play into it as factors, and everything happens for a reason, regardless of whether or not we can see or explain the reason itself.

Havent read it all in this thread, so not sure if anyone has said this.

But ofcourse we have free will, we are born with it, and we will always have it, the government and such are just guidelines so we all can function the best way possible. But im not saying the guidelines are perfect, nothing is.

[QUOTE="AquaMantor"]I think we have free will, but there are choices that we are destined to make. Like, it's written in stone that we'll make a certain choice in a certain place. Despite that, though, it's still our choice to make, so we still do have free will.LJS9502_basic

Dude your statements are contradictions....and no decision is set in stone.

Really, then? I didn't make it clear enough, alright, let me say it this way: Based on our personalities, our intelligence, our past expieriences, and other personal things about us, we are destined to make certain choices in certain situations. However, despite that, it is still OUR choice, no one is making it for us.