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VoodooGamer

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#1 VoodooGamer
Member since 2007 • 1864 Posts

Games are just that--games. You must solve a puzzle and complete a challenge. It doesn't matter what the storyline is; how great the music is; or how deep the characters are. The fact is that the game is meant to present a challenge that you must overcome.

I was just in a thread on another forum about the greatest types of art. Music and video games dwarfed the competition. Movies only got five votes out of 130. Are you kidding me? :lol: Movies is really just acting, and I consider acting to be far more conducive towards than a fricken video game. I can see music being the best kind of art, but I would also say that actual art, like paintings, would be second to music if not first. And movies and acting are surely up at the top. Video games shouldn't even be on the list.

I know art is "subjective" but art has a purpose and that purpose is not to kill the last remaining boss on level 10 or to max out your character. ;)

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Zackariel

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#2 Zackariel
Member since 2009 • 403 Posts

Games are a form of media.

Media is a form of art.

Therefore games are a form of art.

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Neon-Tiger

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#3 Neon-Tiger
Member since 2008 • 7683 Posts
But art has no purpose... :?
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xTheExploited

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#4 xTheExploited
Member since 2007 • 12094 Posts
The game istelf could be art. I consider certain games like MGS, Assassin's Creed, Halo, etc. to be art. They are games that were taken very seriously by the creators and had a lot of work put into them. Games like FIFA and other sports games like that arn't, as they are basically just the same rehash every single year. They don't revolutionize the genre with each new game they just add a few extra features. And a good game and movies arn't that much different except that the viewer is able to interact with the movie and make decisions for themselves. Think about a video game and a CGI movie, voice actors, artists, its all very similar except they make it so you can interact with the characters in the movie and play it out how you want.
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TheOddQuantum

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#5 TheOddQuantum
Member since 2008 • 2472 Posts
Art is the arrangement of elements to stimulate senses or emotions. Video Games fall under that category.
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VoodooGamer

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#6 VoodooGamer
Member since 2007 • 1864 Posts

Games are a form of media.

Media is a form of art.

Therefore games are a form of art.

Zackariel

So Nascar is art?

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VoodooGamer

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#8 VoodooGamer
Member since 2007 • 1864 Posts

Art is the arrangement of elements to stimulate senses or emotions. Video Games fall under that category.TheOddQuantum

Going to the bathroom does the same thing.

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bean-with-bacon

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#9 bean-with-bacon
Member since 2008 • 2134 Posts
Yeah well I wouldn't consider a plain blue canvas to be art either but I saw one in a museum and I consider games much more artistic then that.
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TheOddQuantum

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#10 TheOddQuantum
Member since 2008 • 2472 Posts

[QUOTE="TheOddQuantum"]Art is the arrangement of elements to stimulate senses or emotions. Video Games fall under that category.VoodooGamer

Going to the bathroom does the same thing.

:lol: Yes you may find going to the bathroom an art. :)

EDIT: Here is a rather controversial piece of art by Andres Serran ;)

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VoodooGamer

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#11 VoodooGamer
Member since 2007 • 1864 Posts

But art has no purpose... :?Neon-Tiger

No, I believe it does, and I don't think it has to do with maxing out your character in Fallout 3.

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xTheExploited

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#12 xTheExploited
Member since 2007 • 12094 Posts
[QUOTE="VoodooGamer"][QUOTE="Zackariel"]

Games are a form of media.

Media is a form of art.

Therefore games are a form of art.

So Nascar is art?

How is Nascar a form of media?
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VoodooGamer

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#13 VoodooGamer
Member since 2007 • 1864 Posts
[QUOTE="VoodooGamer"][QUOTE="Zackariel"]

Games are a form of media.

Media is a form of art.

Therefore games are a form of art.

xTheExploited

So Nascar is art?

How is Nascar a form of media?

Well, it's sometimes presented through television, so it's a form of media that people watch.

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jackpotco

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#14 jackpotco
Member since 2007 • 1561 Posts
Nope... Nascar is not art. It is a sport. Games, have art inside them. They are not exactly art but, the designs and graphics in them can be classified as art.
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Forumposter

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#15 Forumposter
Member since 2008 • 847 Posts
art is anything really, some games are art, and all can be depending on how you see them (just as fighting is an art and stuff)
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VoodooGamer

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#16 VoodooGamer
Member since 2007 • 1864 Posts

Nope... Nascar is not art. It is a sport. Games, have art inside them. They are not exactly art but, the designs and graphics in them can be classified as art.jackpotco

A sport has the purpose of defeating the opposition. Games have the exact same purpose.

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xTheExploited

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#17 xTheExploited
Member since 2007 • 12094 Posts

[QUOTE="Neon-Tiger"]But art has no purpose... :?VoodooGamer

No, I believe it does, and I don't think it has to do with maxing out your character in Fallout 3.

Also if you put it that way then you can say anything isn't art. I don't think watching a talking dog save the world is art. I don't believe the new High School Musical sing-along cd is art. I don't believe taking some paint and dipping your hands into it and drawing little pink ponies is art.
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TheOddQuantum

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#18 TheOddQuantum
Member since 2008 • 2472 Posts
Nope... Nascar is not art. It is a sport. Games, have art inside them. They are not exactly art but, the designs and graphics in them can be classified as art.jackpotco
Art can be pretty much anything you want it to be. Sport can definitely be considered art.
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white_sox

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#19 white_sox
Member since 2006 • 17442 Posts
I think you're in a mentality of describing games from past generations. Now, many modern games can be a form of art, pending on what your description of art is. Many games feature actual art, like the cell shaded works of Zelda: Wind Waker or Okami. Many games also feature great scores like Bioshock or Metal Gear Solid. Other games feature intense ambiances like Dead Space or Resident Evil. I think a game that can evoke an emotion could be considered art, in fact that kind of is my definition of "art", anything expressed through a medium to evoke emotion.
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xTheExploited

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#20 xTheExploited
Member since 2007 • 12094 Posts

Well, it's sometimes presented through television, so it's a form of media that people watch.

VoodooGamer
No people watch the TV which transmits the images to the people. TV is the form of media that lets people see something else, not Nascar.
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Xeros606

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#21 Xeros606
Member since 2007 • 11126 Posts
[QUOTE="xTheExploited"][QUOTE="VoodooGamer"][QUOTE="Zackariel"]

Games are a form of media.

Media is a form of art.

Therefore games are a form of art.

So Nascar is art?

How is Nascar a form of media?

Nascar is a game. Games are a form of media. Media is a form of art. Therefore games are a form of art.
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VoodooGamer

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#22 VoodooGamer
Member since 2007 • 1864 Posts
[QUOTE="VoodooGamer"]

[QUOTE="Neon-Tiger"]But art has no purpose... :?xTheExploited

No, I believe it does, and I don't think it has to do with maxing out your character in Fallout 3.

Also if you put it that way then you can say anything isn't art. I don't think watching a talking dog save the world is art. I don't believe the new High School Musical sing-along cd is art. I don't believe taking some paint and dipping your hands into it and drawing little pink ponies is art.

And you'd be right, for none of those things are considered art. Now a movie or a play or music is considered art, and perhaps, even a book, but not a video game.

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Zackariel

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#23 Zackariel
Member since 2009 • 403 Posts
[QUOTE="Zackariel"]

Games are a form of media.

Media is a form of art.

Therefore games are a form of art.

VoodooGamer

So Nascar is art?

NASCAR isn't a form of media.

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xTheExploited

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#24 xTheExploited
Member since 2007 • 12094 Posts

And you'd be right, for none of those things are considered art. Now a movie or a play or music is considered art, and perhaps, even a book, but not a video game.

VoodooGamer
Well if there's exceptions for those other things then why can't there be exceptions for video games? I'll admit there are many games out there that couldn't be further from being considered art but there are some games out there that I wouldn't feel bad about calling art.
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TheOddQuantum

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#25 TheOddQuantum
Member since 2008 • 2472 Posts
[QUOTE="VoodooGamer"]

[QUOTE="Neon-Tiger"]But art has no purpose... :?xTheExploited

No, I believe it does, and I don't think it has to do with maxing out your character in Fallout 3.

Also if you put it that way then you can say anything isn't art. I don't think watching a talking dog save the world is art. I don't believe the new High School Musical sing-along cd is art. I don't believe taking some paint and dipping your hands into it and drawing little pink ponies is art.

A lot of art has purpose. However not all art does have purpoes. It's something that is completely based on opinion.
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swazidoughman

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#26 swazidoughman
Member since 2008 • 3520 Posts

Depends.

Games that developers actually work hard on are art.

Shovelware like Big rigs over the road racing isn'treally art.

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Legendaryscmt

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#27 Legendaryscmt
Member since 2005 • 12532 Posts

Art.

Video games fall into a few of those categories.

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CRS98

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#28 CRS98
Member since 2004 • 9036 Posts
I don't mean to be the jerk to point out the obvious, but you seem to have a closed mind about video games not being an art, TC.
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jettpack

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#29 jettpack
Member since 2009 • 3192 Posts
Any one who thinks games cant be art obviously havent played Flower, that downloadable title for the PS3. it truly is a piece of art.
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VoodooGamer

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#30 VoodooGamer
Member since 2007 • 1864 Posts

I don't mean to be the jerk to point out the obvious, but you seem to have a closed mind about video games not being an art, TC.CRS98

It's not close minded to disagree with someone.

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jettpack

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#31 jettpack
Member since 2009 • 3192 Posts

Any one who thinks games cant be art obviously havent played Flower, that downloadable title for the PS3. it truly is a piece of art. jettpack

Im saying this as an art student. games have the capacity to be art. Fallout 3, Flower, Okami, MGS4. beautiful Interactive fiction.

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jackpotco

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#32 jackpotco
Member since 2007 • 1561 Posts

Definition of the term The most common usage of the word "art," which rose to prominence after 1750, is understood to denote skill used to produce an aesthetic result.[7] Britannica Online defines it as "the use of skill and imagination in the creation of aesthetic objects, environments, or experiences that can be shared with others."[8] By any of these definitions of the word, artistic works have existed for almost as long as humankind: from early pre-historic art to contemporary art; however, some theories restrict the concept to modern Western societies.[9] Much has been written about the concept of "art".[10] Where Adorno said in 1970 "It is now taken for granted that nothing which concerns art can be taken for granted any more[...],"[11],[12] The first and broadest sense of art is the one that has remained closest to the older Latin meaning, which roughly translates to "skill" or "craft," and also from an Indo-European root meaning "arrangement" or "to arrange". In this sense, art is whatever is described as having undergone a deliberate process of arrangement by an agent. A few examples where this meaning proves very broad include artifact, artificial, artifice, artillery, medical arts, and military arts. However, there are many other colloquial uses of the word, all with some relation to its etymology. The second and more recent sense of the word art is as an abbreviation for creative art or fine art. Fine art means that a skill is being used to express the artist's creativity, or to engage the audience's aesthetic sensibilities, or to draw the audience towards consideration of the finer things. Often, if the skill is being used in a common or practical way, people will consider it a craft instead of art. Likewise, if the skill is being used in a commercial or industrial way, it will be considered Commercial art instead of fine art. On the other hand, crafts and design are sometimes considered applied art. Some art followers have argued that the difference between fine art and applied art has more to do with value judgments made about the art than any clear definitional difference. However, even fine art often has goals beyond pure creativity and self-expression. The purpose of works of art may be to communicate ideas, such as in politically-, spiritually-, or philosophically-motivated art; to create a sense of beauty (see aesthetics); to explore the nature of perception; for pleasure; or to generate strong emotions. The purpose may also be seemingly nonexistent. Painting by Song Dynasty artist Ma Lin, c. 1250. 24,8 × 25,2 cm.Art can describe several things: a study of creative skill, a process of using the creative skill, a product of the creative skill, or the audience's experience with the creative skill. The creative arts (art as discipline) are a collection of disciplines (arts) that produce artworks (art as objects) that are compelled by a personal drive (art as activity) and echo or reflect a message, mood, or symbolism for the viewer to interpret (art as experience). Artworks can be defined by purposeful, creative interpretations of limitless concepts or ideas in order to communicate something to another person. Artworks can be explicitly made for this purpose or interpreted based on images or objects. Art is something that stimulates an individual's thoughts, emotions, beliefs, or ideas through the senses. It is also an expression of an idea and it can take many different forms and serve many different purposes. Although the application of scientific theories to derive a new scientific theory involves skill and results in the "creation" of something new, this represents science only and is not categorized as art.

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CRS98

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#33 CRS98
Member since 2004 • 9036 Posts

[QUOTE="CRS98"]I don't mean to be the jerk to point out the obvious, but you seem to have a closed mind about video games not being an art, TC.VoodooGamer

It's not close minded to disagree with someone.

No it's not, but you're not really giving any examples why it's not, or how "creative or artistic" someone can be with their videogames. Is that truly not art? Truly?
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GumbyBalls

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#34 GumbyBalls
Member since 2009 • 726 Posts
Who really cares? If he wants to think X, Y, and Z aren't arts. Then let him. How is that going to affect any of the rest of us in any way? It's not. More power to you, TC!
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II_Seraphim_II

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#35 II_Seraphim_II
Member since 2007 • 20534 Posts
I suggest you play some games TC, like actually good games and you will see that games are art.
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MetroidPrimePwn

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#36 MetroidPrimePwn
Member since 2007 • 12399 Posts
Videogames can have elements of Visual Art and Storytelling, both of which are OBVIOUSLY art forms, so why shouldn't videogames be considered art themselves?
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jackpotco

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#37 jackpotco
Member since 2007 • 1561 Posts
Videogames can have elements of Visual Art and Storytelling, both of which are OBVIOUSLY art forms, so why shouldn't videogames be considered art themselves?MetroidPrimePwn
... Good point. But I mean, there is differant categories for the game itself.
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ernie1989

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#38 ernie1989
Member since 2004 • 8547 Posts

Games are just that--games. You must solve a puzzle and complete a challenge. It doesn't matter what the storyline is; how great the music is; or how deep the characters are. The fact is that the game is meant to present a challenge that you must overcome.

I was just in a thread on another forum about the greatest types of art. Music and video games dwarfed the competition. Movies only got five votes out of 130. Are you kidding me? :lol: Movies is really just acting, and I consider acting to be far more conducive towards than a fricken video game. I can see music being the best kind of art, but I would also say that actual art, like paintings, would be second to music if not first. And movies and acting are surely up at the top. Video games shouldn't even be on the list.

I know art is "subjective" but art has a purpose and that purpose is not to kill the last remaining boss on level 10 or to max out your character. ;)

VoodooGamer

You are ignorant if you really think films are really "just acting" and you should really take into consideration the other elements that go into a film. As far as whether games are "Art" or not, I believe that most games are just useless -- they may be fun, but what does one gain from a game in the long run? Games are like puzzles, but that does not mean that one can not communacate a message, idea, or a feeling. Video games have not been around for a very long time and there are some fine examples that I would consider "Art." I believe there is a lot of potential in them to become more than just games.

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LoG-Sacrament

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#39 LoG-Sacrament
Member since 2006 • 20397 Posts

videogames contain many mediums that are widely considered art. they can have beautiful scores (certainly an art), visual arts in the form of landscapes and characters, and sequences of events woven together in the form of storytelling. a good developing team fuses all of these elements together and invokes emotion in the audience.

yes, videogames contain a lot of interaction. however, good art is often completed by the audience. people could have various intreprations of picasso's guernica, kubrick's 2001, or beethoven's 5th. that doesnt make them any less artistic.

its just that not all works of art (even in a single medium) are on the same level. playing big rigs and saying video games arent art is the same thing as watching meet the spartans and saying that movies arent art or listening to 50 cent and saying music isnt art. it is a great disservice to the truly creative video games.

the main problem that i see is that video games are a young medium. they havent had the time to develop to heights of beethoven's 9th or stravinsky's rite of spring. but thats not to say that it will never happen. its no fault of the medium itself.

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clembo1990

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#40 clembo1990
Member since 2005 • 9976 Posts
But art has no purpose... :?Neon-Tiger
Art has a purpose.
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FUBAR24

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#41 FUBAR24
Member since 2005 • 12185 Posts

Games are a form of media.

Media is a form of art.

Therefore games are a form of art.

Zackariel
transitive property...gotta love it :)
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thekodaman

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#42 thekodaman
Member since 2006 • 1733 Posts
Play through Shadow of the Colossus. That'll change your mind.
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cheeselover

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#43 cheeselover
Member since 2006 • 2091 Posts
Art is an expression or application of human creative skill and imagination. Video Games are art. Period.
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zakkro

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#44 zakkro
Member since 2004 • 48823 Posts
Shadow of the Colossus?
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MagicHat1

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#45 MagicHat1
Member since 2008 • 209 Posts

Vodoo, what exactly qualifies as art for you and why? Without knowing that, I can't fully see were you are coming from with this.

For me, art is when someone, can be more then one person, sets out to create something beautiful or moving and manages it, leaving the beholder with a sense of said beauty, wonder or simply makes that person think a lot. Sometimes a moment in sport can cross into art for certain people while a painting isn't, for me, automatically art. Can games and movies cross into art? Yes, exceptional ones do take away people's breath with it's beauty and creativity so for me, it is art.

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alphamale1989

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#46 alphamale1989
Member since 2008 • 3134 Posts
Many elements of creating a game involve art: musical score visual design script writing voice acing All of these take artistic talent to pull off well, therefore making quality video games is an art form.
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joao_22990

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#47 joao_22990
Member since 2007 • 2230 Posts
Art is subjective. Very. So much that it is quite egoistical just to assume you have authority to decide what is and what isn't art. Games involve many form of currently accepted arts, such as writing, music, film, etc. But what separates video games from everything else, and what, in my opinion makes them art, is the interactivity. But it's measured in other principles, like immersiveness, for example. So yes, video games are art, it's just that not many of them take advantage off that characteristic.