Global........Warming

How many of you have changed your opinion on global warming since you first heard about it? For me, I still don't buy into the man-made crisis that is global warming. The earth naturally gets warmer and cooler over time. How else can you explain during the last Ice Age when the planet was mostly frozen over, and then eventually warming up and melting. That wasn't because of "greenhouse gasses", it was completely natural. Al Gore is probably making a fortune and last I checked he isn't a famous scientist. This is also a pretty funny article (http://www.tennesseepolicy.org/main/article.php?article_id=367) to sum it up if you haven't read it already Al Gore's home uses twice as much energy in one month than the average american does in one year.

So has your opinion changed since you first heard of "Global Warming"? I know mine hasn't, although I do believe there are things we can do to improve the enviroment, I don't think it's going to spin out of control anytime soon.

I leave my refrigerator door open to help cool the Earth.Oleg_Huzwog

What to cheap to leave your freezer open?

The effect of man on Global Warming may be inconclusive, but the effect of man on the environment and the detrimental effects we have had isn't even debateable. Anything that means we take care of the environment, look after our jungles, our wildlife, mountains, rivers and oceans etc, is only a good thing in my eyes. We've been ******* our planet for far too long. Time to change.Hoobinator

This creates global warming...

Simple answer = People

Human Beings are stupid when it comes to self-control.

Man does contribute to global warming. The only debate is exactly how much of that global warming is a result of man-made pollution.DeeJayInphinity

So when we go into a global cooling, will man have contributed to that as well? I remember reading a few weeks ago on Yahoo scientists were predicting an Ice Age. Honestley, I don't know what to where today when I go outside. A bathing suit? or pants and a jacket?

I'm all for improving what we have done to the enviroment. I just buy into the huge problem they are making this out to be.

Keep in mind I'm talking about global warming. There are obvious results to what we as man have done to this earth as far pollution and everything in between. I'm heading out though but I'm interested to hear what everyone else has to say when I check back on this topic.tharg617

I think what it amounts to is that the earth is going to get warmer eventually, as it goes in cycles. The problem is that we are expediting that process via greenhouse gas emissions. I think we can all agree that we have some effect on global warming, namely speeding it up. Of course, nobody knows how much of a contribution we play.

Either way, as other people have said, we need to change the way things are run for a whole multitude of reasons. This article caught my eye today:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080312/ap_on_go_ot/dirty_air

Problems like this are only going to get much, much worse if we let things run rampant.

Man does contribute to global warming. The only debate is exactly how much of that global warming is a result of man-made pollution.DeeJayInphinity

this.

Here are some indisputable facts:

Man makes a huge amount of CO2

There is more CO2 in the atmosphere

CO2 does not absorb ultraviolet radiation (which is what most of the energy from the sun arrives as) but does absorb infra-red radiation, which the earth emits, so we have energy going in but not back out.

Knowing this, it seems fairly obvious we are having an impact.

I completly forgot that in the U.S Global Warming is still like open for debate. Just like evolution. I thought this was a joke thread O.o Horendous86

If only. It's quite a shock how people can really have such views in this day and age, and the only explanation I can think of is that they so desperately want something to be wrong they start believing it is.

You do know global warming is a fact of life right? Same goes for Evolution.Horendous86

You know I was supporting you, right?

Sorry. See I talked to creationists and other half-witted tools like that and your quote could be misread.

[QUOTE="Junkie_man"]

-snip- and the only explanation I can think of is that they so desperately want something to be wrong they start believing it is.

Horendous86

As in they desperately want something to be wrong, as in Global Warming is a wrong thing, they start believing in it.

Sorry for the confusion on my part, hard to read people if it's only text.

I get the impression that you are just as close-minded and xenophobic as some of the people you are speaking out against.

[QUOTE="Horendous86"]

Sorry. See I talked to creationists and other half-witted tools like that and your quote could be misread.

[QUOTE="Junkie_man"]

-snip- and the only explanation I can think of is that they so desperately want something to be wrong they start believing it is.

xXBuffJeffXx

As in they desperately want something to be wrong, as in Global Warming is a wrong thing, they start believing in it.

Sorry for the confusion on my part, hard to read people if it's only text.

I get the impression that you are just as close-minded and xenophobic as some of the people you are speaking out against.

Close-minded I don't agree with but can see why you said it, but how is that xenophobic?

[QUOTE="xXBuffJeffXx"][QUOTE="Horendous86"]

Sorry. See I talked to creationists and other half-witted tools like that and your quote could be misread.

[QUOTE="Junkie_man"]

-snip- and the only explanation I can think of is that they so desperately want something to be wrong they start believing it is.

Junkie_man

As in they desperately want something to be wrong, as in Global Warming is a wrong thing, they start believing in it.

Sorry for the confusion on my part, hard to read people if it's only text.

I get the impression that you are just as close-minded and xenophobic as some of the people you are speaking out against.

Close-minded I don't agree with but can see why you said it, but how is that xenophobic?

"unreasonable hatred of that which is foreign..." That includes foreign ideas. Ideas that are different from your own.

You called others "half-witted tools" because you feel your opinion is superior to theirs.

[QUOTE="Junkie_man"][QUOTE="xXBuffJeffXx"][QUOTE="Horendous86"]

Sorry. See I talked to creationists and other half-witted tools like that and your quote could be misread.

[QUOTE="Junkie_man"]

-snip- and the only explanation I can think of is that they so desperately want something to be wrong they start believing it is.

xXBuffJeffXx

As in they desperately want something to be wrong, as in Global Warming is a wrong thing, they start believing in it.

Sorry for the confusion on my part, hard to read people if it's only text.

I get the impression that you are just as close-minded and xenophobic as some of the people you are speaking out against.

Close-minded I don't agree with but can see why you said it, but how is that xenophobic?

"unreasonable hatred of that which is foreign..." That includes foreign ideas.

I don't hate them and they are not reasonable ideas. I most certainly don't hate them because they're foreign, but I disagree with them because I feel empirical evidence clearly points otherwise to the degree that I find it incredible that people still hold them to be true.

[QUOTE="xXBuffJeffXx"][QUOTE="Junkie_man"][QUOTE="xXBuffJeffXx"][QUOTE="Horendous86"]

Sorry. See I talked to creationists and other half-witted tools like that and your quote could be misread.

[QUOTE="Junkie_man"]

-snip- and the only explanation I can think of is that they so desperately want something to be wrong they start believing it is.

Junkie_man

As in they desperately want something to be wrong, as in Global Warming is a wrong thing, they start believing in it.

Sorry for the confusion on my part, hard to read people if it's only text.

I get the impression that you are just as close-minded and xenophobic as some of the people you are speaking out against.

Close-minded I don't agree with but can see why you said it, but how is that xenophobic?

"unreasonable hatred of that which is foreign..." That includes foreign ideas.

I don't hate them and they are not reasonable ideas. I most certainly don't hate them because they're foreign, but I disagree with them because I feel empirical evidence clearly points otherwise to the degree that I find it incredible that people still hold them to be true.

The whole issue is devoid of absolutism. Both theories have significant gaps in them. Yes, there is solid empirical evidence in support of evolution, but that doesn't mean it is infallible and immune from refutation. I tend to agree with you, honestly. I'm not a member of the church, but to call people what you did is as close-minded as SOME of them are.

I wouldn't say closed minded, being a dutchy I believe in legality of gay marriage, a big fat border in between religion and politics. Euthanasia, freedom of speech, multi-cultural societies, guns r bad (mkay?) policy. The fact we have a certain logic law. Meaning if theres a woman that puts her dog in the microwave while the manual doesn't say she shouldn't she doesn't get any money, she doesn't even get to sue anyone, she just gets a smack against the forehead and be told to educate herself. Ya know, all things why I love my country.

I'm open for anyone's views as long as they can support it with arguements and facts, but seriously, and I apoligize in advance. When it comes to dealing with Americans, I'm a bit cautious, maybe even a bit xenophobic.

Because when your president said 'In the case of evolution, the jury is still out', the way he seems to pronounce terrorists and Al'Queda, the whole Iraq war wich is shady at best (I watched American news and it's slightly biased, and whole lot different then international and dutch television) and knoweing he got voted twice to be the businesscard of America, to be the visiting card of a nation and the most powerfull man to boot. That makes me cautious.

Now just so you don't get me wrong, I don't think al Americans are stupid. I'm not saying you or anyone is stupid, I'm just saying it makes me cautious.

I agree. You are right. If someone is being a hypocrite, that makes whatever they are saying false.SpaceMoose

Actually I believe he is a hypocrite and a lot of what he is saying is false. I thought it was an interesting fact about his home, and if he is truly into what he is saying why wouldn't he do something to change it? Sorry but being a hypocrite takes away some of your credibility. Once again, I do believe we have to do something to protect our environment but I don't believe it's global warming we should be focused on. So I think improving the environment part he got right, I just don't believe the environment is going to spin out of control due to man-made global warming because I believe the earth goes through both global cooling and warming naturally. The media has put way to much focus on it.

The whole issue is devoid of absolutism. Both theories have significant gaps in them. Yes, there is solid empirical evidence in support of evolution, but that doesn't mean it is infallible and immune from refutation. I tend to agree with you, honestly. I'm not a member of the church, but to call people what you did is as close-minded as SOME of them are.

xXBuffJeffXx

The thing with Evolution vs Creationism and the Inteligent Design theory. Is one is an actual theory supported by actual facts, and actual research with actual scientists.

Not a SINGLE scientist has submitted any theories about the possibility of Inteligent Design or Creationism in a peer reviewed publishing.

Ofcourse you can try and debunk a theory, ofcourse you can debate it, but use real arguements.

Now fact is, the theory of evolution is being thought to kids as 'fact' all over the world. But there is only one country that pops up my head that I know of that is actually debateing to put creationism in books and teach it as 'possible'

[QUOTE="xXBuffJeffXx"]

The whole issue is devoid of absolutism. Both theories have significant gaps in them. Yes, there is solid empirical evidence in support of evolution, but that doesn't mean it is infallible and immune from refutation. I tend to agree with you, honestly. I'm not a member of the church, but to call people what you did is as close-minded as SOME of them are.

Horendous86

The thing with Evolution vs Creationism and the Inteligent Design theory. Is one is an actual theory supported by actual facts, and actual research with actual scientists.

Not a SINGLE scientist has submitted any theories about the possibility of Inteligent Design or Creationism in a peer reviewed publishing.

Ofcourse you can try and debunk a theory, ofcourse you can debate it, but use real arguements.

Now fact is, the theory of evolution is being thought to kids as 'fact' all over the world. But there is only one country that pops up my head that I know of that is actually debateing to put creationism in books and teach it as 'possible'

Really? Global warming is fact now? There is no God?

Okay......proof?

I'll apologize in advance, I'm one of those "dumb americans", because I'm not as close minded as some. Thank you!

Here are some indisputable facts:

Man makes a huge amount of CO2

There is more CO2 in the atmosphere

CO2 does not absorb ultraviolet radiation (which is what most of the energy from the sun arrives as) but does absorb infra-red radiation, which the earth emits, so we have energy going in but not back out.

Knowing this, it seems fairly obvious we are having an impact.

Junkie_man

[QUOTE="Horendous86"][QUOTE="xXBuffJeffXx"]

The whole issue is devoid of absolutism. Both theories have significant gaps in them. Yes, there is solid empirical evidence in support of evolution, but that doesn't mean it is infallible and immune from refutation. I tend to agree with you, honestly. I'm not a member of the church, but to call people what you did is as close-minded as SOME of them are.

tharg617

The thing with Evolution vs Creationism and the Inteligent Design theory. Is one is an actual theory supported by actual facts, and actual research with actual scientists.

Not a SINGLE scientist has submitted any theories about the possibility of Inteligent Design or Creationism in a peer reviewed publishing.

Ofcourse you can try and debunk a theory, ofcourse you can debate it, but use real arguements.

Now fact is, the theory of evolution is being thought to kids as 'fact' all over the world. But there is only one country that pops up my head that I know of that is actually debateing to put creationism in books and teach it as 'possible'

Really? Global warming is fact now? There is no God?

Okay......proof?

I'll apologize in advance, I'm one of those "dumb americans", because I'm not as close minded as some. Thank you!

Please refer back to my first post, I think I demonstrated how obvious it is we are having an impact on the climate, and where did you get the idea that we were disputing the existence of God? That has absolutely no relevance.

Really? Global warming is fact now? There is no God?

Okay......proof?

I'll apologize in advance, I'm one of those "dumb americans", because I'm not as close minded as some. Thank you!

tharg617

Fine there's a thing called the Kyoto-protocol, look it up. It has 164 countries in it, they agree to decrease polution output even if it's at the cost of national economy, Bush refused to sign. You think 164 countries are needlessly sacrificeing their economical development for something that could be easily dismissed by the simple arguement that it's 'all overhyped'.

And I never said there wasn't a God. I'm just saying believing in things like Superevolution and that the Earth is 4000 years old, and that scientists just make you 'believe' it's older just because they want to make their theory fit. Believing dinosaurs and man lived together. Believing in things like http://www.creationmuseum.org/ because the Church approves is uneducated, and closed minded.

And if defending my views with proof, and supporting them is close minded. Then hell, my eyes must be wide shut.

And if you wish to debunk those statements please offer me proof. Facts, and several unbiased reports from scientificly respected instances.

And your very welcome. :)

[QUOTE="Junkie_man"]

Here are some indisputable facts:

Man makes a huge amount of CO2

There is more CO2 in the atmosphere

CO2 does not absorb ultraviolet radiation (which is what most of the energy from the sun arrives as) but does absorb infra-red radiation, which the earth emits, so we have energy going in but not back out.

Knowing this, it seems fairly obvious we are having an impact.

Darthmatt

But they are facts. we have measurements frm Cape Grim in Tasmania recording the concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere that have been in use for decades. The other two points are based on simple chemistry; there is nothing subjective in my first post (although one could possibly make a case for the conclusion if they really wanted to).

[QUOTE="tharg617"][QUOTE="Horendous86"][QUOTE="xXBuffJeffXx"]

The whole issue is devoid of absolutism. Both theories have significant gaps in them. Yes, there is solid empirical evidence in support of evolution, but that doesn't mean it is infallible and immune from refutation. I tend to agree with you, honestly. I'm not a member of the church, but to call people what you did is as close-minded as SOME of them are.

Junkie_man

The thing with Evolution vs Creationism and the Inteligent Design theory. Is one is an actual theory supported by actual facts, and actual research with actual scientists.

Not a SINGLE scientist has submitted any theories about the possibility of Inteligent Design or Creationism in a peer reviewed publishing.

Ofcourse you can try and debunk a theory, ofcourse you can debate it, but use real arguements.

Now fact is, the theory of evolution is being thought to kids as 'fact' all over the world. But there is only one country that pops up my head that I know of that is actually debateing to put creationism in books and teach it as 'possible'

Really? Global warming is fact now? There is no God?

Okay......proof?

I'll apologize in advance, I'm one of those "dumb americans", because I'm not as close minded as some. Thank you!

Please refer back to my first post, I think I demonstrated how obvious it is we are having an impact on the climate, and where did you get the idea that we were disputing the existence of God? That has absolutely no relevance.

Once again "dumb american" here.

Just to let you know, I'm referring to the "Christian God". So as to say evolution were true it would dispute I guess the "theory" (I can't say fact because it's not backed up by "science" but faith) that God created everything and started the world with Adam and Eve. So I guess saying evolution is true or "fact" (because I know you scientists love that word) wouldn't take away God being real but it might as well, if you're saying he didn't create the heavens and earth, to quote the bible.

Once again "dumb american" here.

Just to let you know, I'm referring to the "Christian God". So as to say evolution were true it would dispute I guess the "theory" (I can't say fact because it's not backed up by "science" but faith) that God created everything and started the world with Adam and Eve. So I guess saying evolution is true or "fact" (because I know you scientists love that word) wouldn't take away God being real but it might as well, if you're saying he didn't create the heavens and earth, to quote the bible.

tharg617

You'r obviously confuseing the theory of Evolution with the theory of Abiogenesis, theory of Evolution is not a theory about life's origin. It's a theory of how one from of life changes over time through mutation, natural selection, into another form.

Tho to say I believe in the Bibles story about Adam and Eve, no. I don't, I think every good book needs a beginning, and I think the bible is an excelent book for guidance but to take every story literally is a bit overdoing it. Please, get back to global warming, you can PM me if you want to share views about the Theory of Origins or the New Testament, the Old Testament or the Koran for that matter.

[QUOTE="tharg617"]

Once again "dumb american" here.

Just to let you know, I'm referring to the "Christian God". So as to say evolution were true it would dispute I guess the "theory" (I can't say fact because it's not backed up by "science" but faith) that God created everything and started the world with Adam and Eve. So I guess saying evolution is true or "fact" (because I know you scientists love that word) wouldn't take away God being real but it might as well, if you're saying he didn't create the heavens and earth, to quote the bible.

Horendous86

You'r obviously confuseing the theory of Evolution with the theory of Abiogenesis, theory of Evolution is not a theory about life's origin. It's a theory of how one from of life changes over time through mutation, natural selection, into another form.

Tho to say I believe in the Bibles story about Adam and Eve, no. I don't, I think every good book needs a beginning, and I think the bible is an excelent book for guidance but to take every story literally is a bit overdoing it. Please, get back to global warming, you can PM me if you want to share views about the Theory of Origins or the New Testament, the Old Testament or the Koran for that matter.

In my opinion, the Bible isn't a book that you pick through what you want to believe and what you don't want to believe. That is one reason why Christians are often thought of as a hypocrites, because some do that.

Back to global warming, I haven't done research on the Kyoto-protocol but I'd like to. Although I do have questions. Is that the solution we as a world should be taking? Is it benefiting just the enviroment or some other countries as well.

And just a question to you, or anyone else. How do you think Global Warming will affect us and when. I know many people have different views on that one as well.

[QUOTE="tharg617"]

Once again "dumb american" here.

Just to let you know, I'm referring to the "Christian God". So as to say evolution were true it would dispute I guess the "theory" (I can't say fact because it's not backed up by "science" but faith) that God created everything and started the world with Adam and Eve. So I guess saying evolution is true or "fact" (because I know you scientists love that word) wouldn't take away God being real but it might as well, if you're saying he didn't create the heavens and earth, to quote the bible.

Horendous86

You'r obviously confuseing the theory of Evolution with the theory of Abiogenesis, theory of Evolution is not a theory about life's origin. It's a theory of how one from of life changes over time through mutation, natural selection, into another form.

Tho to say I believe in the Bibles story about Adam and Eve, no. I don't, I think every good book needs a beginning, and I think the bible is an excelent book for guidance but to take every story literally is a bit overdoing it. Please, get back to global warming, you can PM me if you want to share views about the Theory of Origins or the New Testament, the Old Testament or the Koran for that matter.

Since limiting Co2 output for countries is only detrimental to their own economy I can't imagine any country benefiting from the Kyoto-protocol. Besides 'make the world a bit healthier' there really isn't any benefit I can think of for any country. There's actually only downsides, because take per example the two biggest pollutors in the world China and the U.S it would mean a serious economical nosedive. Personally I think Bush isn't that ignorant that he dismisses Global Warming, I think it's more likely the U.S would be faceing a large economical depression if he did sign it.

How global warming would effect us is pretty. As far as I know heat comes in, and the gasses that we all produce keeps it from getting out, meaning the world would get hotter and hotter, mind you I learned this in college and never re-educated myself about it. So my guess would be in the extremes either a Waterworld scenario (hopefully without Kevin Costner) or the Earth turns into a giant sandplanet. Mind youin the extremes so we all just keep happily puffing up pollution till the very very last point.

The one thing that article leaves out is that Al Gore gets all his energy from green energy, meaning hes supporting the expansion of green energy by using it.Big_player

My question is when did he turn his energy into green energy? I'll have to agree the that source I listed didn't give the whole truth.

I don't really believe that man is the main cause of Global Warming, but i'm sure it's happening. I can see the changes right where i live.

Since limiting Co2 output for countries is only detrimental to their own economy I can't imagine any country benefiting from the Kyoto-protocol. Besides 'make the world a bit healthier' there really isn't any benefit I can think of for any country. There's actually only downsides, because take per example the two biggest pollutors in the world China and the U.S it would mean a serious economical nosedive. Personally I think Bush isn't that ignorant that he dismisses Global Warming, I think it's more likely the U.S would be faceing a large economical depression if he did sign it.

How global warming would effect us is pretty. As far as I know heat comes in, and the gasses that we all produce keeps it from getting out, meaning the world would get hotter and hotter, mind you I learned this in college and never re-educated myself about it. So my guess would be in the extremes either a Waterworld scenario (hopefully without Kevin Costner) or the Earth turns into a giant sandplanet. Mind youin the extremes so we all just keep happily puffing up pollution till the very very last point.

Horendous86

I totally agree with the United States hitting a economical depression if that were to happen. We're nearly at a recession as it is. Anyway, going back to my first post which started this topic. During the last iceage the earth was nealry covered in ice, eventually the earth warmed up, and it melted. It didn't warm up due to anything scientists or anyone else is claiming today. It would have been natural.