http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42508543/ns/world_news-europe
7 dead and 11 wounded. People are crazy.
This topic is locked from further discussion.
so very very true. if most people were carrying that nut serial killer would of died much much faster. and this is another case of a stand alone complex.(ghost in the shell reference)This is proof that gun bans accomplish nothing.
It is better to die free than live in chains.
dkrustyklown
This is proof that gun bans accomplish nothing.
dkrustyklown
Not really, no. How many shootings happen in The Netherlands compared to similar-sized countries where guns are allowed? I'm guessing that it's nowhere near as many.
[QUOTE="dkrustyklown"]so very very true. if most people were carrying that nut serial killer would of died much much faster. That or a lot more people would have died as people start pulling out their pistols and firing wildly in a crowded area.This is proof that gun bans accomplish nothing.
It is better to die free than live in chains.
kayoticdreamz
[QUOTE="kayoticdreamz"][QUOTE="dkrustyklown"]so very very true. if most people were carrying that nut serial killer would of died much much faster. That or a lot more people would have died as people start pulling out their pistols and firing wildly in a crowded area. or people that own guns go to gun ranges practice shooting and would be able to hit their target.This is proof that gun bans accomplish nothing.
It is better to die free than live in chains.
worlock77
Actually, the dutch have gun control.Ib4 people go crazy about gun control.
In all seriousness, this is a terrible tragedy, my thoughts go out to the families.
TheArGaia
[QUOTE="kayoticdreamz"][QUOTE="worlock77"] That or a lot more people would have died as people start pulling out their pistols and firing wildly in a crowded area.worlock77or people that own guns go to gun ranges practice shooting and would be able to hit their target. Some do, some don't. Would you be willing to stake your life on every gun owner in that situation being that skilled in that situation? Not to mention that shooting at target at a practice range is a hell of a lot different than shooting at a moving person in a high intensity real life situation. In order to have a concealed carry license, you HAVE to go to the range and pass tests and practice.
Some do, some don't. Would you be willing to stake your life on every gun owner in that situation being that skilled in that situation? Not to mention that shooting at target at a practice range is a hell of a lot different than shooting at a moving person in a high intensity real life situation. In order to have a concealed carry license, you HAVE to go to the range and pass tests and practice. And again, shooting at targets at a practice range is a hell of a lot different from shooting at a person in a high intensity real life situation. Plus, the subject is about the Netherlands, talking about the gun laws where you live is kinda moot, unless you happen to live in the Netherlands.[QUOTE="worlock77"][QUOTE="kayoticdreamz"] or people that own guns go to gun ranges practice shooting and would be able to hit their target.BMD004
[QUOTE="BMD004"]In order to have a concealed carry license, you HAVE to go to the range and pass tests and practice. And again, shooting at targets at a practice range is a hell of a lot different from shooting at a person in a high intensity real life situation. Plus, the subject is about the Netherlands, talking about the gun laws where you live is kinda moot, unless you happen to live in the Netherlands. You just said "some do, some don't" in regards to the statement that people that own guns to to ranges to practice and they HAVE to be accurate to pass the test. Then they have to re-test every-so-often. I was just saying that you are wrong. In order to be allowed to have a concealed carry license, you MUST be proficient in using your firearm.[QUOTE="worlock77"] Some do, some don't. Would you be willing to stake your life on every gun owner in that situation being that skilled in that situation? Not to mention that shooting at target at a practice range is a hell of a lot different than shooting at a moving person in a high intensity real life situation.worlock77
It's a tragedy, but gun-related violence in the Netherlands is very rare, unless maybe if you count organised crime mobs fighting each other, but you have that everywhere.
People can speculate all they want about what would've happened if more people had carried guns, but the last thing we need is a group of opportunistic Americans telling us how to legislate gun ownership. Changing our current laws isn't even up for debate here, and one event, tragic as it may be, will not change that.
I always look at gun control in a different aspect than you guys are arguing about.
Maybe the guy would have been a little more hesitant to do anything at all if he knew that everyone around him could have been carrying weapons also.
Of course, you'll always have the "crazies" and the idiots that just don't give a flyin f, but I think if carrying was allowed it would cut down on alot of intrusive crimes, from criminals being a little more apprehensive.
My two cents.
More guns = less crime.
The key to a peaceful society is a well armed, well trained citizenry.
*picks up flame shield and crouches behind it*
More guns = less crime.
The key to a peaceful society is a well armed, well trained citizenry.
*picks up flame shield and crouches behind it*
collegeboy64
Don't worry about flames from me. I full heartedly agree.
I mean, I guess pulling a gun on someone to try and rob their wallet will definitely still put them in the worse position, whether the victim is carrying or not, but if other people in the area are carrying also, you would have to weigh that into consideration instead of just figuring "I've got the gun so I'm in control".
Just think of a store robbery. Not only would you have to worry about normal security, you have to worry about every other person in the place. The "cowboy hero" potential would be greatly increased, and any criminal,idiot or not, would have to think a little longer about that.
[edited because I mentioned 'bank' instead of store... Pretty sure you wouldn't be able to head into a bank while packing...]
lol if you are going to kill people at least do it Jason Voorhees or Michael Myers style. Using a gun is incredibly cowardly.Only in America.
phillo99
[QUOTE="phillo99"]lol if you are going to kill people at least do it Jason Voorhees or Michael Myers style. Using a gun is incredibly cowardly. Both are cowards who prey on women, next.Only in America.
APiranhaAteMyVa
[QUOTE="worlock77"][QUOTE="kayoticdreamz"] or people that own guns go to gun ranges practice shooting and would be able to hit their target.kayoticdreamzSome do, some don't. Would you be willing to stake your life on every gun owner in that situation being that skilled in that situation? Not to mention that shooting at target at a practice range is a hell of a lot different than shooting at a moving person in a high intensity real life situation. id rather have the worst aiming person in the world have a gun on him on this situation as it is still far better than being completely and totally defenseless. secondly if that guy starts shooting and see 20 people pop out a gun he has no idea the guns are loaded or not and he must make a decision fire one more shot and die or lay down and surrender its basic stuff here. and those 20 guns could be empty and unloaded but he sure as hell would not know. see? a crazy man isnt going to go in and shoot down a mall if he knows the majority are armed because thats simply nuts one man with a gun doesnt take on a whole army. let me also ask you this...if you are a burglar are you going to rob the neighborhood that you know is a gun free zone and no one owns a gun or the one that has people that own guns? guns deter criminals is the bottom line. criminals want easy targets armed people are not easy targets. hell there is no reason in a free land the people should not be armed. any attempt to block gun ownership is a clear sign of a tyrant as only a tyrant would have any rational reason to rob me of my right to own a gun and carry it as a please. its for self defense against criminals and tyrants. plain and simple.
And yet the country with the largest amount of guns, particularly handguns has the highest per capita violent crime rate and the highest per capita murder rate. By far.
It is far to simplistic to argue that more guns make people safer.
As for your argument about tyrants :) it ismeaningless circular reasoning. I must have guns to protect myself from tyrants. Anyone who doesn't want me to have guns is a tyrant. Therefore, I must have guns both because I want them and because you don't want me to have them :) Unless you do want me to have them. bIt's a win win. Guns for everyone.
You might want to pause and ask yourself what is so broken with your society that you live in such fear that you feel guns are necessary?
Ib4 people go crazy about gun control.
In all seriousness, this is a terrible tragedy, my thoughts go out to the families.
TheArGaia
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARMoJ-9G68k
Rapin' our churches, burnin' our women.
id rather have the worst aiming person in the world have a gun on him on this situation as it is still far better than being completely and totally defenseless. secondly if that guy starts shooting and see 20 people pop out a gun he has no idea the guns are loaded or not and he must make a decision fire one more shot and die or lay down and surrender its basic stuff here. and those 20 guns could be empty and unloaded but he sure as hell would not know. see? a crazy man isnt going to go in and shoot down a mall if he knows the majority are armed because thats simply nuts one man with a gun doesnt take on a whole army. let me also ask you this...if you are a burglar are you going to rob the neighborhood that you know is a gun free zone and no one owns a gun or the one that has people that own guns? guns deter criminals is the bottom line. criminals want easy targets armed people are not easy targets. hell there is no reason in a free land the people should not be armed. any attempt to block gun ownership is a clear sign of a tyrant as only a tyrant would have any rational reason to rob me of my right to own a gun and carry it as a please. its for self defense against criminals and tyrants. plain and simple.[QUOTE="kayoticdreamz"][QUOTE="worlock77"] Some do, some don't. Would you be willing to stake your life on every gun owner in that situation being that skilled in that situation? Not to mention that shooting at target at a practice range is a hell of a lot different than shooting at a moving person in a high intensity real life situation.SUD123456
And yet the country with the largest amount of guns, particularly handguns has the highest per capita violent crime rate and the highest per capita murder rate. By far.
It is far to simplistic to argue that more guns make people safer.
As for your argument about tyrants :) it ismeaningless circular reasoning. I must have guns to protect myself from tyrants. Anyone who doesn't want me to have guns is a tyrant. Therefore, I must have guns both because I want them and because you don't want me to have them :) Unless you do want me to have them. bIt's a win win. Guns for everyone.
You might want to pause and ask yourself what is so broken with your society that you live in such fear that you feel guns are necessary?
What the hell? The country with the largest amount of guns per capita is Switzerland, and it has one of the LOWEST violent crime rates in the world. Secondly, there are countries like Mexico where guns are ILLEGAL, yet it is one of the most violent countries.[QUOTE="dkrustyklown"]
This is proof that gun bans accomplish nothing.
Planeforger
Not really, no. How many shootings happen in The Netherlands compared to similar-sized countries where guns are allowed? I'm guessing that it's nowhere near as many.
Finland, Norway or Sweden(I think all guns are legal in sweden even fully automatic ones)? I think the netherlands are beating them with their tally of 1.
[QUOTE="SUD123456"][QUOTE="kayoticdreamz"] id rather have the worst aiming person in the world have a gun on him on this situation as it is still far better than being completely and totally defenseless. secondly if that guy starts shooting and see 20 people pop out a gun he has no idea the guns are loaded or not and he must make a decision fire one more shot and die or lay down and surrender its basic stuff here. and those 20 guns could be empty and unloaded but he sure as hell would not know. see? a crazy man isnt going to go in and shoot down a mall if he knows the majority are armed because thats simply nuts one man with a gun doesnt take on a whole army. let me also ask you this...if you are a burglar are you going to rob the neighborhood that you know is a gun free zone and no one owns a gun or the one that has people that own guns? guns deter criminals is the bottom line. criminals want easy targets armed people are not easy targets. hell there is no reason in a free land the people should not be armed. any attempt to block gun ownership is a clear sign of a tyrant as only a tyrant would have any rational reason to rob me of my right to own a gun and carry it as a please. its for self defense against criminals and tyrants. plain and simple.BMD004
And yet the country with the largest amount of guns, particularly handguns has the highest per capita violent crime rate and the highest per capita murder rate. By far.
It is far to simplistic to argue that more guns make people safer.
As for your argument about tyrants :) it ismeaningless circular reasoning. I must have guns to protect myself from tyrants. Anyone who doesn't want me to have guns is a tyrant. Therefore, I must have guns both because I want them and because you don't want me to have them :) Unless you do want me to have them. bIt's a win win. Guns for everyone.
You might want to pause and ask yourself what is so broken with your society that you live in such fear that you feel guns are necessary?
What the hell? The country with the largest amount of guns per capita is Switzerland, and it has one of the LOWEST violent crime rates in the world. Secondly, there are countries like Mexico where guns are ILLEGAL, yet it is one of the most violent countries.I didn't say guns per capita. I said total amount of guns.
Also, Switzerland is all about rifles issued to the militia. Those rifles are locked up in cases when not in use. They do not exist for defence against criminals. Nor do they exist for defense against their own gov't.
Meanwhile, I never said that the absence of guns automatically makes things safer. Indeed, I do believe I made it quite clear that the issue is whether your society is broken or not that matters. Quite clearly things are broken in Mexico's drug war areas. Also quite clearly having a gun in those areas is no defence.
[QUOTE="Dogswithguns"]damn, and I though Dutch people are cool....TheArGaiaYou can't blame a whole nation for one mans mistake. You're right... most are nice, one crazy person gonna pop up someday somehow.
id rather have the worst aiming person in the world have a gun on him on this situation as it is still far better than being completely and totally defenseless. secondly if that guy starts shooting and see 20 people pop out a gun he has no idea the guns are loaded or not and he must make a decision fire one more shot and die or lay down and surrender its basic stuff here. and those 20 guns could be empty and unloaded but he sure as hell would not know. see? a crazy man isnt going to go in and shoot down a mall if he knows the majority are armed because thats simply nuts one man with a gun doesnt take on a whole army. let me also ask you this...if you are a burglar are you going to rob the neighborhood that you know is a gun free zone and no one owns a gun or the one that has people that own guns? guns deter criminals is the bottom line. criminals want easy targets armed people are not easy targets. hell there is no reason in a free land the people should not be armed. any attempt to block gun ownership is a clear sign of a tyrant as only a tyrant would have any rational reason to rob me of my right to own a gun and carry it as a please. its for self defense against criminals and tyrants. plain and simple.[QUOTE="kayoticdreamz"][QUOTE="worlock77"] Some do, some don't. Would you be willing to stake your life on every gun owner in that situation being that skilled in that situation? Not to mention that shooting at target at a practice range is a hell of a lot different than shooting at a moving person in a high intensity real life situation.SUD123456
And yet the country with the largest amount of guns, particularly handguns has the highest per capita violent crime rate and the highest per capita murder rate. By far.
It is far to simplistic to argue that more guns make people safer.
As for your argument about tyrants :) it ismeaningless circular reasoning. I must have guns to protect myself from tyrants. Anyone who doesn't want me to have guns is a tyrant. Therefore, I must have guns both because I want them and because you don't want me to have them :) Unless you do want me to have them. bIt's a win win. Guns for everyone.
You might want to pause and ask yourself what is so broken with your society that you live in such fear that you feel guns are necessary?
ask yourself this why are you so paranoid as to trust your fellow law abiding citizens with guns to protect themselves? maybe its you who cant be trusted with a gun not i. ive owned guns for years but somehow i know its crazy talk have managed to not shoot anyone with them.Please Log In to post.
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