Has anyone ever considered that... [Religion Vs Science related]

...that--and for arguments sake, let's assume that the ideals and beliefs of Christianity are real--Science and religion can easily co-exist?

Personally I believe in science rather than religion, but in all the debates, all I see is Science OR Religion. Why can't science be the human understanding of God's powers? Evolution for example: what if God, in creating us, started us off as small organisms. A day to God might be millenia in our human terms.

One fundemental flaw in everyone's arguments is that you can't possibly have both science and religion at the same time, which just doesn't make sense. Sure, God may be behind Earthquakes and tornadoes, does that mean there's not a scientific, human explanation behind how God creates them?

This is not a new concept. Some people do believe in both.Godly_Cure

When I said anyone I meant mainly people here. But as that guy sai (forgot who, sorry) strong believers on either side aren't going to be willing to accept the other anyway.DoHo

That's not true...strong believers in one can accept the other.:|

[QUOTE="DoHo"]When I said anyone I meant mainly people here. But as that guy sai (forgot who, sorry) strong believers on either side aren't going to be willing to accept the other anyway.LJS9502_basic

That's not true...strong believers in one can accept the other.:|

by accept he means believe (i think). if science says something is impossible then a religion said it happened they cant believe in both

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="DoHo"]When I said anyone I meant mainly people here. But as that guy sai (forgot who, sorry) strong believers on either side aren't going to be willing to accept the other anyway.hip-hop-cola2

That's not true...strong believers in one can accept the other.:|

by accept he means believe (i think). if science says something is impossible then a religion said it happened they cant believe in both

What exactly does science say is impossible vis a vis religion?

A day to God might be millenia in our human terms.DoHo

I believe God could've created earth over thousands of years. I personally don't believe in evolution because I haven't seen enough evidence for it. Perhaps He created each species separately many thousands of years apart, rather than having caused them to evolve.

[QUOTE="hip-hop-cola2"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="DoHo"]When I said anyone I meant mainly people here. But as that guy sai (forgot who, sorry) strong believers on either side aren't going to be willing to accept the other anyway.LJS9502_basic

That's not true...strong believers in one can accept the other.:|

by accept he means believe (i think). if science says something is impossible then a religion said it happened they cant believe in both

What exactly does science say is impossible vis a vis religion?

dude.... please don't go there. im sure anything i say you will contradict with some of your own knowledge ect ect + 200 posts...

if yourlooking at religion as a whole, then no, science cant disprove anything. but the more detailed things like water into wine?

I think you need to define exactly what you mean by "science" in this context.

Personally, I don't believe one can look objectively at a subject if that subject conflicts with their beliefs. For example, there is a staggering number of people who vehemently deny the existence of evolution and can give you all kinds of crazy reasons why evolution is supposedly a myth, and centuries ago it was considered herectical in some places to suggest things such as the Earth revolved around the sun. The fundamental question does arise, though: If you are willing to believe in things which you don't really have any evidence for other than the rather trivial reason that, "A lot of other people belive it," can you truly be said to look at EVERYTHING scientifically? And personally, I don't think you can. I'm not saying that is good or bad, but that is my thought on the matter. I think that many of the religions have good IDEAS, but the supernatural and unsubstantiated stuff thrown in with said ideas just kind of drives me up a wall.

However, your question says to assume the ideals and beliefs of Christianity are real. Well, if they were real, then logic suggests that they MUST be able to coexist.

One thing I will say:

I don't think one can truly have a firm grasp on the sciences of how the human mind works and still believe in "free will," so that branch of science is out.

Earth started out as a cloud of dust. Over time, these particles of dust began to collect together and create more and more gravity, pulling more and more dust particles together creating even more gravity, leading to a hot swirling mass of gas and dust. Aka, "earth without form".

The center became molten hot, and the hot dust coalesces into magma. Over time, the outer edges became harder and slowly cooled into a crust.

The atmosphere was still filled with dust/gas particles, so no light from the Sun got through. "There is total darkness".

Some of this blanket of gas was composed of hydrogen and oxygen atoms. They combined to form water. Heat from the UV rays combined with the coolness of space, along with the forming crust, caused condensation of said atoms, allowing water to pool on the surface.

Over time this condensation caused oceans to form. "Water covered the earth."

Time passed and the atmosphere began to clear, allowing light to leak in from the Sun. "Light appeared."

As earth wobbled around the Sun, it rotated on its axis and there were periods of night and day. "The separation of light and darkness".

The earth was still very active, and internal pressure caused giant eruptions which spewed lava and created bigger and bigger landmasses. As the crust continued to cool, some places cooled more quickly than others, and cracks formed, resulting in continental plates, but there was still a single landmass surrounded by one gigantic ocean.

The combination of the core cooling, crust increasing in depth, and water vapor set the stage for organic growth. "Let the land produce vegetation...".

The atmosphere continued to become clearer. Finally, the Sun's rays shined through. "Day and night".

Earth spinned on its axis and rotated around the Sun, moving closer and then further away from it, aka "Seasons".

Gravity pulled the rest of the orbiting gas and dust into the atmosphere, and space cleared up, allowing other stars to shine. "Stars appeared".

As the ocean became cooler, creatures in it flourished, and as the atmosphere stabilized, "birds filled the air". Lastly, "animals filled the land".

The stage was set, and "God created man". The rest is history.

Here's a question: how did Moses (who wrote Genesis) know the order of creation, when people from 500 years before the present day believed the world was flat? I think he was told what to write.

It is only the aithiest who want to fight science vs religion (and a few fundamentalists) most christians would agree that the two can peacefully exist togetherLS07

Not true. Historically, the Church has done much to try to prevent the advancement of science. Faith is all one needs in order to survive. If you have faith, God will provide for you. Medicine and working for a living are not necessary.

Here's an article I found on how science correlates with the Bible on earth's formation.
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Earth started out as a cloud of dust. Over time, these particles of dust began to collect together and create more and more gravity, pulling more and more dust particles together creating even more gravity, leading to a hot swirling mass of gas and dust. Aka, "earth without form".

The center became molten hot, and the hot dust coalesces into magma. Over time, the outer edges became harder and slowly cooled into a crust.

The atmosphere was still filled with dust/gas particles, so no light from the Sun got through. "There is total darkness".

Some of this blanket of gas was composed of hydrogen and oxygen atoms. They combined to form water. Heat from the UV rays combined with the coolness of space, along with the forming crust, caused condensation of said atoms, allowing water to pool on the surface.

Over time this condensation caused oceans to form. "Water covered the earth."

Time passed and the atmosphere began to clear, allowing light to leak in from the Sun. "Light appeared."

As earth wobbled around the Sun, it rotated on its axis and there were periods of night and day. "The separation of light and darkness".

The earth was still very active, and internal pressure caused giant eruptions which spewed lava and created bigger and bigger landmasses. As the crust continued to cool, some places cooled more quickly than others, and cracks formed, resulting in continental plates, but there was still a single landmass surrounded by one gigantic ocean.

The combination of the core cooling, crust increasing in depth, and water vapor set the stage for organic growth. "Let the land produce vegetation...".

The atmosphere continued to become clearer. Finally, the Sun's rays shined through. "Day and night".

Earth spinned on its axis and rotated around the Sun, moving closer and then further away from it, aka "Seasons".

Gravity pulled the rest of the orbiting gas and dust into the atmosphere, and space cleared up, allowing other stars to shine. "Stars appeared".

As the ocean became cooler, creatures in it flourished, and as the atmosphere stabilized, "birds filled the air". Lastly, "animals filled the land".

The stage was set, and "God created man". The rest is history.

Here's a question: how did Moses (who wrote Genesis) know the order of creation, when people from 500 years before the present day believed the world was flat? I think he was told what to write.

nuclear_cookout

I can count the hits and exlude the misses all day long. People do it with nonsense like Nostradamus' predictions all the time.

[QUOTE="DoHo"]A day to God might be millenia in our human terms.nuclear_cookout

I believe God could've created earth over thousands of years. I personally don't believe in evolution because I haven't seen enough evidence for it. Perhaps He created each species separately many thousands of years apart, rather than having caused them to evolve.

A day is the time it takes for a planet to make one complete revolution. So I ask you, since God does exist on any spinning planets, what exactly does not determine the "day" of God?

Here's a question: how did Moses (who wrote Genesis) know the order of creation, when people from 500 years before the present day believed the world was flat? I think he was told what to write.

nuclear_cookout

im not sure thats true, i dont think it werea common fact that the earth wasround. im hazy on this yet im sure there are greek writings also saying the earth was probably round.

[QUOTE="nuclear_cookout"]

[QUOTE="DoHo"]A day to God might be millenia in our human terms.Gamer556

I believe God could've created earth over thousands of years. I personally don't believe in evolution because I haven't seen enough evidence for it. Perhaps He created each species separately many thousands of years apart, rather than having caused them to evolve.

A day is the time it takes for a planet to make one complete revolution. So I ask you, since God does exist on any spinning planets, what exactly does determine the "day" of God?

I personally don't believe in evolution because I haven't seen enough evidence for it. Perhaps He created each species separately many thousands of years apart, rather than having caused them to evolve.nuclear_cookout

Wait. You don't believe in evolution, but you think that some animals could have evolved... Does this make sense to anyone?

[QUOTE="nuclear_cookout"]

Here's a question: how did Moses (who wrote Genesis) know the order of creation, when people from 500 years before the present day believed the world was flat? I think he was told what to write.

hip-hop-cola2

im not sure thats true, i dont think it werea common fact that the earth wasround. im hazy on this yet im sure there are greek writings also saying the earth was probably round.

[QUOTE="nuclear_cookout"]I personally don't believe in evolution because I haven't seen enough evidence for it. Perhaps He created each species separately many thousands of years apart, rather than having caused them to evolve.muthsera666

Wait. You don't believe in evolution, but you think that some animals could have evolved... Does this make sense to anyone?

I can count the hits and exlude the misses all day long. People do it with nonsense like Nostradamus' predictions all the time.

SpaceMoose

Have you actually read Notradamus, or are you just dismissing him out of hand?

[QUOTE="muthsera666"]

[QUOTE="nuclear_cookout"]I personally don't believe in evolution because I haven't seen enough evidence for it. Perhaps He created each species separately many thousands of years apart, rather than having caused them to evolve.nuclear_cookout

Wait. You don't believe in evolution, but you think that some animals could have evolved... Does this make sense to anyone?

Oh. You're right. Sorry I misread that.

There at the tail-end I thought you were going to use logic, which would have contradicted yourself. But, nope, you're all good.

[QUOTE="Gamer556"][QUOTE="nuclear_cookout"]

[QUOTE="DoHo"]A day to God might be millenia in our human terms.nuclear_cookout

I believe God could've created earth over thousands of years. I personally don't believe in evolution because I haven't seen enough evidence for it. Perhaps He created each species separately many thousands of years apart, rather than having caused them to evolve.

A day is the time it takes for a planet to make one complete revolution. So I ask you, since God does exist on any spinning planets, what exactly does determine the "day" of God?

Then why does the Bible say everything was created in seven days? If time is irrelevant to God, why is the act of creation given a specific measurement of time?

Have you actually read Notradamus, or are you just dismissing him out of hand?

muthsera666

Yes, I have actually. Well, not all of his quatrains, but quite a bit of it, and most of it is so vague that you are bound to find something that it could be interpreted to mean if you look hard enough.

i concur...and i cant be botehred reading ur thing..but of the bat i'd agree..

they can co-exist..

adam and eve were the first 2 organisms (single Celled) on earth..and so on blah blah

[QUOTE="nuclear_cookout"][QUOTE="Gamer556"][QUOTE="nuclear_cookout"]

[QUOTE="DoHo"]A day to God might be millenia in our human terms.Gamer556

I believe God could've created earth over thousands of years. I personally don't believe in evolution because I haven't seen enough evidence for it. Perhaps He created each species separately many thousands of years apart, rather than having caused them to evolve.

A day is the time it takes for a planet to make one complete revolution. So I ask you, since God does exist on any spinning planets, what exactly does determine the "day" of God?

Then why does the Bible say everything was created in seven days? If time is irrelevant to God, why is the act of creation given a specific measurement of time?

God's words contradict Science's claims, as simple as that. The earth is/isn't the center of the univers. We evolved/were created. We live on a planet/ we live in some sort of dome and when it rains thats really the windows opening cause the blue sky is acually water. Just can't have that stuff side by side.

however deists and casual theists are pretty cool and can coexist with science easily.

The only different between religion and superstition is the spelling.

Personally I think all relgion is bogus and there is so much to prove them all wrong. But those who believe in said religion just don't want to hear it and most are close minded about the subject.

Religion and science are not mutually exclusive....some individuals have an agenda.LJS9502_basic

There is no belief in science, its fact. They can co exist, you have faith in religion and you know science is fact.I personally have no faith but I do not discredit people for having beliefs.dgbeard45

...that--and for arguments sake, let's assume that the ideals and beliefs of Christianity are real--Science and religion can easily co-exist?

Personally I believe in science rather than religion, but in all the debates, all I see is Science OR Religion. Why can't science be the human understanding of God's powers? Evolution for example: what if God, in creating us, started us off as small organisms. A day to God might be millenia in our human terms.

One fundemental flaw in everyone's arguments is that you can't possibly have both science and religion at the same time, which just doesn't make sense. Sure, God may be behind Earthquakes and tornadoes, does that mean there's not a scientific, human explanation behind how God creates them?

DoHo

I don't think the question should be whether or not religion and science can co-exist. People do it everyday, so it must not be all that difficult. I think the better question is whether or not they should co-exist. I think that is a much more interesting question.

Science is a discipline that is based on a foundation of rationality. Hypotheses are presented, and only once those hypotheses are supported by evidence and reason are they accepted as being true. Religion on the other hand is ultimately a faith based system of beliefs.

So, is it appropriate for someone to use reason in one portion of their life while using faith in another portion?

[QUOTE="dgbeard45"]There is no belief in science, its fact. They can co exist, you have faith in religion and you know science is fact.I personally have no faith but I do not discredit people for having beliefs.nuclear_cookout

Look at Pluto for example. Did Pluto change? No. Did man's understanding change? Yes. So who cares if the Church thought the Earth used to be the center. Many people used to believe that. Now people know it revolves around the Sun. The Church changes too and supports advances in science.

[QUOTE="dgbeard45"]There is no belief in science, its fact. They can co exist, you have faith in religion and you know science is fact.I personally have no faith but I do not discredit people for having beliefs.nuclear_cookout

If they can prove it, yes. It's all in the proof.