Henry Kravis makes $51,369 PER HOUR, Humanity has no hope.

And yet we pay more in taxes.

Its people like this that make me lose faith in humanity, he cuts jobs and takes away benefits to make money, and pays less in taxes then teachers, firemen, policemen, and his maids.

(hope this is not old)

God bless capitalism.B05T0N

[QUOTE="B05T0N"]God bless capitalism.H3llstrike

He's smart. Good for him lbde

You would not being saying that he he bought your company and fired you now would you?

Thats.....amazing.

Call me jealous.

[QUOTE="lbde"]He's smart. Good for him Mythbuster4ever

You would not being saying that he he bought your company and fired you now would you?

[QUOTE="lbde"]He's smart. Good for him Mythbuster4ever

You would not being saying that he he bought your company and fired you now would you?

A Trustee of the Mount Sinai Medical Center, Henry and wife Marie-Josée Kravis donated $15 million to establish the "Center for Cardiovascular Health" as well as funding a Professorship.

Just read the wiki. He donated a ton of money and his wealth halved.

[QUOTE="Mythbuster4ever"]

[QUOTE="lbde"]He's smart. Good for him B05T0N

You would not being saying that he he bought your company and fired you now would you?

A Trustee of the Mount Sinai Medical Center, Henry and wife Marie-Josée Kravis donated $15 million to establish the "Center for Cardiovascular Health" as well as funding a Professorship.

Just read the wiki. He donated a ton of money and his wealth halved.

Meh. Giving away half of what you own means a lot if you don't make much in a year. It means very little if you make a great deal. If a person who makes $50 000/year gives away half of that to charity, it will have quite an effect on that person's life. This guy's not really giving anything up. Even if he gave up 99% of what he makes, he'd still be living the good life by the standards of an average citizen, making upwards of $500/h.

All that said, I'm glad he's giving something back to the society that he has exploited for his personal gain.

Ok, watching that video and hearing people talk in between displays of this man's wealth I have to say I am not sympathetic at ALL.

Why should this man be penalized for ambition? For having a drive to make money and never want for anything in his life? Whats wrong with that? I speak this way because I have that same drive, my girlfriend hates it, thinks all I care about is school and getting myself a good job. People whine WAY too much about things like this, don't like it? Learn how to invest and start piecing together a fortune instead of hating others for making their dreams happen.

Ok, watching that video and hearing people talk in between displays of this man's wealth I have to say I am not sympathetic at ALL.

Why should this man be penalized for ambition? For having a drive to make money and never want for anything in his life? Whats wrong with that? I speak this way because I have that same drive, my girlfriend hates it, thinks all I care about is school and getting myself a good job. People whine WAY too much about things like this, don't like it? Learn how to invest and start piecing together a fortune.

TheSystemLord1

[QUOTE="TheSystemLord1"]

Ok, watching that video and hearing people talk in between displays of this man's wealth I have to say I am not sympathetic at ALL.

Why should this man be penalized for ambition? For having a drive to make money and never want for anything in his life? Whats wrong with that? I speak this way because I have that same drive, my girlfriend hates it, thinks all I care about is school and getting myself a good job. People whine WAY too much about things like this, don't like it? Learn how to invest and start piecing together a fortune.

B05T0N

You and I usually think the same on things like this man. I've lived the poor life, my father told me to never do things like he did and I am taking that advice every time I set foot in a damn ****oom. I'm disgusted at that video, I really am...bunch of people who want something for nothing. Its not like he doesn't earn every penny of that salary with his workweek. I'm betting that while he was building himself he was working EASILY 50-70 hours a week making decisions that would send most people into cardiac arrest. People think that a 35-40 hour work week entitles them to endless comforts.

The man built a cardio-vascular center for heaven's sake! He gave more money to build that center than most people earn in their entire lives!

These men are what the American dream is based on ladies and gents. I am reading the Wiki, he went to school and got his MBA. He did the work. Then he clawed his way up from the bottom. Bill Gates quit school because he had a dream. This is living proof that we live in the greatest country on Earth, if you have ambition, and you have the intelligence and a desire to work hard you can do ANYTHING.

[QUOTE="Mythbuster4ever"]

[QUOTE="lbde"]He's smart. Good for him lbde

You would not being saying that he he bought your company and fired you now would you?

[QUOTE="B05T0N"][QUOTE="TheSystemLord1"]

Ok, watching that video and hearing people talk in between displays of this man's wealth I have to say I am not sympathetic at ALL.

Why should this man be penalized for ambition? For having a drive to make money and never want for anything in his life? Whats wrong with that? I speak this way because I have that same drive, my girlfriend hates it, thinks all I care about is school and getting myself a good job. People whine WAY too much about things like this, don't like it? Learn how to invest and start piecing together a fortune.

TheSystemLord1

You and I usually think the same on things like this man. I've lived the poor life, my father told me to never do things like he did and I am taking that advice every time I set foot in a damn ****oom. I'm disgusted at that video, I really am...bunch of people who want something for nothing. Its not like he doesn't earn every penny of that salary with his workweek. I'm betting that while he was building himself he was working EASILY 50-70 hours a week making decisions that would send most people into cardiac arrest. People think that a 35-40 hour work week entitles them to endless comforts.

The man built a cardio-vascular center for heaven's sake! He gave more money to build that center than most people earn in their entire lives!

These men are what the American dream is based on ladies and gents. I am reading the Wiki, he went to school and got his MBA. He did the work. Then he clawed his way up from the bottom. Bill Gates quit school because he had a dream. This is living proof that we live in the greatest country on Earth, if you have ambition, and you have the intelligence and a desire to work hard you can do ANYTHING.

:| My mom makes less then a fourth of that a year...Guiltfeeder566

Ok, watching that video and hearing people talk in between displays of this man's wealth I have to say I am not sympathetic at ALL.

Why should this man be penalized for ambition? For having a drive to make money and never want for anything in his life? Whats wrong with that? I speak this way because I have that same drive, my girlfriend hates it, thinks all I care about is school and getting myself a good job. People whine WAY too much about things like this, don't like it? Learn how to invest and start piecing together a fortune instead of hating others for making their dreams happen.

TheSystemLord1

There isn't anything wrong with his desire to make money. But there is something very wrong with the means by which he does it, and with the extent of his unsatiable greed. People aren't reacting negatively to him because he's wealthy, but because he is exorbitantly wealthy - beyond the point of reason - and that he has become wealthy by destroying other peoples' lives. They're also upset that someone who does little more than leach off of society is making far more than people who make real contributions. When you get right down to it, these attitudes are perfectly understandable, and I believe there is a great deal of legitimacy to the frustration.

However, the frustration should be directed at the system that allows this sort of rampant greed to fluorish. Tax this guy 98% and he's still making $1000/h. The fact that he's legally paying less in taxes than a person who makes $30 000 / year is frankly ridiculous. And the fact that he makes as much in one hour as a public servant makes in a year is even more absurd, given the means he uses to do so. Both of these things are a problems with the system that nobody is willing to address. And I don't need to tell you why they aren't being addressed.

I don't hate him for making his dreams happen. But I do hate what he represents - achieving his personal goals by wrecking the lives of countless others when he absorbs companies and lays off most of the workers who depend on their jobs for survival, not extravagant luxury.

Rofl @ "What would you do if you had one of Henry Kravis' homes for the holidays?"

"I'd sell it"

"I'd put everything in the house on Ebay and donate all of the money to charity" my particular favorite

"I'd throw a huge party"

"I'd invite everyone in off of the street so they could eat my food"

"I'd sell it and buy every videogame in the world."

So basically...its cute to hear people express greed when they don't have the means to do what they want with their money.

[QUOTE="TheSystemLord1"]

Ok, watching that video and hearing people talk in between displays of this man's wealth I have to say I am not sympathetic at ALL.

Why should this man be penalized for ambition? For having a drive to make money and never want for anything in his life? Whats wrong with that? I speak this way because I have that same drive, my girlfriend hates it, thinks all I care about is school and getting myself a good job. People whine WAY too much about things like this, don't like it? Learn how to invest and start piecing together a fortune instead of hating others for making their dreams happen.

pianist

There isn't anything wrong with his desire to make money. But there is something very wrong with the means by which he does it, and with the extent of his unsatiable greed. People aren't reacting negatively to him because he's wealthy, but because he is exorbitantly wealthy - beyond the point of reason - and that he has become wealthy by destroying other peoples' lives. They're also upset that someone who does little more than leach off of society is making far more than people who make real contributions. When you get right down to it, these attitudes are perfectly understandable, and I believe there is a great deal of legitimacy to the frustration.

However, the frustration should be directed at the system that allows this sort of rampant greed to fluorish. Tax this guy 98% and he's still making $1000/h. The fact that he's legally paying less in taxes than a person who makes $30 000 / year is frankly ridiculous. And the fact that he makes as much in one hour as a public servant makes in a year is even more absurd, given the means he uses to do so. Both of these things are a problems with the system that nobody is willing to address. And I don't need to tell you why they aren't being addressed.

I don't hate him for making his dreams happen. I hate what he represents - achieving his personal goals by wrecking the lives of countless others when he absorbs companies and lays off most of the workers who were depend on their jobs for survival, not extravagant luxury.

Rofl @ "What would you do if you had one of Henry Kravis' homes for the holidays?"

"I'd sell it"

"I'd put everything in the house on Ebay and donate all of the money to charity" my particular favorite

"I'd throw a huge party"

"I'd invite everyone in off of the street so they could eat my food"

"I'd sell it and buy every videogame in the world."

So basically...its cute to hear people express greed when they don't have the means to do what they want with their money.

TheSystemLord1

There isn't anything wrong with his desire to make money. But there is something very wrong with the means by which he does it, and with the extent of his unsatiable greed. People aren't reacting negatively to him because he's wealthy, but because he is exorbitantly wealthy - beyond the point of reason - and that he has become wealthy by destroying other peoples' lives. They're also upset that someone who does little more than leach off of society is making far more than people who make real contributions. When you get right down to it, these attitudes are perfectly understandable, and I believe there is a great deal of legitimacy to the frustration.

However, the frustration should be directed at the system that allows this sort of rampant greed to fluorish. Tax this guy 98% and he's still making $1000/h. The fact that he's legally paying less in taxes than a person who makes $30 000 / year is frankly ridiculous. And the fact that he makes as much in one hour as a public servant makes in a year is even more absurd, given the means he uses to do so. Both of these things are a problems with the system that nobody is willing to address. And I don't need to tell you why they aren't being addressed.

I don't hate him for making his dreams happen. But I do hate what he represents - achieving his personal goals by wrecking the lives of countless others when he absorbs companies and lays off most of the workers who were depend on their jobs for survival, not extravagant luxury.

pianist

I won't touch the tax breaks. That is wrong, yes. As for who he fires and why? Truth is we don't know how we fires people or why he does it, only that he does it. If he gives a performance review before firing an employee and is not satisfied with what he finds than he has every right to fire that person.

In the Wiki it says he sells the new "more efficient" and "streamlined" companies for a huge profit. While those words can be taken any one of a number of ways what it says to me is that he hires reviewers, and each person is given a sheet to describe what they do and what it means to the company. Business isn't charity, if a person is doing a meaningless job then they deserve to be fired.

Another thing, the people he's laying off have some sort of credentials. Yeah, they might not make as much at their next job but they WILL find another job. Even down to the base professions like Janitors and such. If you have to move for work, you have to move for work. You are not entitled to live where ever you want and make whatever you want...it just isn't realistic.

You and I usually think the same on things like this man. I've lived the poor life, my father told me to never do things like he did and I am taking that advice every time I set foot in a damn ****oom. I'm disgusted at that video, I really am...bunch of people who want something for nothing. Its not like he doesn't earn every penny of that salary with his workweek. I'm betting that while he was building himself he was working EASILY 50-70 hours a week making decisions that would send most people into cardiac arrest. People think that a 35-40 hour work week entitles them to endless comforts.

TheSystemLord1

:|

Teachers, firefighters, medical staff, and soldiers want something for nothing? An additional 10-30 hours of work per week entitles a person to an hourly rate increase of $51 300? You just don't get it, do you? I have no respect for a person who works a 50-70 hour work week figuring out ways to profit by ruining other people's lives. Society has not benefitted in any appreciable way from what this clown and others like him are doing. But society DOES benefit from and indeed depend upon the public servants that you claim want something for nothing.

There's no hope for you if you think that a person is entitled to this sort of cash simply because he's working within the laws established by people who condone what he's doing. And the notion that he earns every penny of his salary is completely laughable, especially since you seem to be implying that what he does is more important to society than what is contributed by countless people who make far less, yet perform much more important tasks.

[QUOTE="TheSystemLord1"]

Rofl @ "What would you do if you had one of Henry Kravis' homes for the holidays?"

"I'd sell it"

"I'd put everything in the house on Ebay and donate all of the money to charity" my particular favorite

"I'd throw a huge party"

"I'd invite everyone in off of the street so they could eat my food"

"I'd sell it and buy every videogame in the world."

So basically...its cute to hear people express greed when they don't have the means to do what they want with their money.

B05T0N

EXACTLY, but throw some christmassy music in the background and give everybody the warm and fuzzies about these hard working people going out there and working for their salaries. Get Henry Kravis on that video and have him tell the videographer just what struggles he has had in his life...I'll bet they are far more heart breaking than hearing about how a Spanish teacher with 4 kids and a nice place to live (the inside was nice) can't give her kids EVERYTHING they want.

:|

Teachers, firefighters, medical staff, and soldiers want something for nothing? An additional 10-30 hours of work per week entitles a person to an hourly rate increase of $51 300? You just don't get it, do you? I have no respect for a person who works a 50-70 hour work week figuring out ways to profit by ruining other people's lives. Society has not benefitted in any appreciable way from what this clown and others like him are doing. But society DOES benefit from and indeed depend upon the public servants that you claim want something for nothing.

There's no hope for you if you think that a person is entitled to this sort of cash simply because he's working within the laws established by people who condone what he's doing. And the notion that he earns every penny of his salary is completely laughable, especially since you seem to be implying that what he does is more important to society than what is contributed by countless people who make far less, yet perform much more important tasks.

pianist

You act like his aquisitions were gaurenteed profit. Far from it. He and his business partner assessed their value to the best of their knowledge and took RISKS to see if they could turn a profit. What happens if 3 out of his first 5 aquisitions fails? We aren't having this conversation and the man is left an absolutely broken human being millions of dollars in debt.

I have no doubt he earns every penny of that salary because he uses his head to gain. If he was ruining people's lives he would be strapped with lawsuits quicker than you or I could type responses to each other. You must have a good, and legal reason to fire somebody. I am 100% convinced he asks each staff member of every aquisition he's ever gotten to compile a summary of their duties and benefit to the company and fires those that are just taking up space.

Apparently you missed the part where he builds $15,000,000 medical centers out of his own pocket. So that money wasn't taken from him in taxes...so what? You know where that money probably would have ended up? Over in Iraq.

I won't touch the tax breaks. That is wrong, yes. As for who he fires and why? Truth is we don't know how we fires people or why he does it, only that he does it. If he gives a performance review before firing an employee and is not satisfied with what he finds than he has every right to fire that person.

In the Wiki it says he sells the new "more efficient" and "streamlined" companies for a huge profit. While those words can be taken any one of a number of ways what it says to me is that he hires reviewers, and each person is given a sheet to describe what they do and what it means to the company. Business isn't charity, if a person is doing a meaningless job then they deserve to be fired.

Another thing, the people he's laying off have some sort of credentials. Yeah, they might not make as much at their next job but they WILL find another job. Even down to the base professions like Janitors and such. If you have to move for work, you have to move for work. You are not entitled to live where ever you want and make whatever you want...it just isn't realistic.

TheSystemLord1

More efficient companies are only good for this guy and whoever takes over the company. The pawns of society find themselves overworked, and the effectiveness of their work decreases as a result. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that he 'streamlines' companies by eliminating benefits and making fewer people do the same work that a greater number of employees did. If he has three janitors, he fires one, and the other two have to do the same work as the three initially did. And if they don't get the job done, they get fired too. This has had understandable negative side effects like depression, and a necessity for most income earners to work longer hours, which has a negative effect on parenting, for instance.

And this is precisely why I despise the business mentality of capitalism. It strives not to improve the situation for all, but rather to improve the situation for a select few at the expense of the majority. It's a system that rewards exploitation, selfishness, and greed (all of which I despise), not hard work as everybody wants you to believe. Plenty of other people work 50-70 hour work weeks on minimum wage, because they'll starve if they don't. And sure, you can claim it is their fault for being in a minimum wage job... but that doesn't blind me to the injustice of other people doing the same amount of work and being paid more in an hour for it than others get paid in a year.

No doubt many people see this guy as proof of the glory of capitalism. All I see is another example of why the system is deeply flawed.

half of what you own means a lot if you don't make much in a year. It means very little if you make a great deal. If a person who makes $50 000/year gives away half of that to charity, it will have quite an effect on that person's life. This guy's not really giving anything up. Even if he gave up 99% of what he makes, he'd still be living the good life by the standards of an average citizen, making upwards of $500/h.

All that said, I'm glad he's giving something back to the society that he has exploited for his personal gain.

pianist

I would disagree with that, considering half of what he is worth achieves a lot more than half the worth of someone making $50 000/year. He might not be giving up enough to put himself on the streets, but that money sure accomplishes quite a lot.

More efficient companies are only good for this guy and whoever takes over the company. The pawns of society find themselves overworked, and the effectiveness of their work decreases as a result. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that he 'streamlines' companies by eliminating benefits and making fewer people do the same work that a greater number of employees did. If he has three janitors, he fires one, and the other two have to do the same work as the three initially did. And if they don't get the job done, they get fired too. This has had understandable negative side effects like depression, and a necessity for most income earners to work longer hours, which has a negative effect on parenting, for instance.

And this is precisely why I despise the business mentality of capitalism. It strives not to improve the situation for all, but rather to improve the situation for a select few at the expense of the majority. It's a system that rewards exploitation, selfishness, and greed (all of which I despise), not hard work as everybody wants you to believe. Plenty of other people work 50-70 hour work weeks on minimum wage, because they'll starve if they don't. And sure, you can claim it is their fault for being in a minimum wage job... but that doesn't blind me to the injustice of other people doing the same amount of work and being paid more in an hour for it than others get paid in a year.

No doubt many people see this guy as proof of the glory of capitalism. All I see is another example of why the system is deeply flawed.

pianist

But will you at least agree with me when I say that everybody has the opportunity to become like this man? There are no perfect governmental systems out there, there just aren't. You accept the one that suits you best and its all you can do.

You act like his aquisitions were gaurenteed profit. Far from it. He and his business partner assessed their value to the best of their knowledge and took RISKS to see if they could turn a profit. What happens if 3 out of his first 5 aquisitions fails? We aren't having this conversation and the man is left an absolutely broken human being millions of dollars in debt.

I have no doubt he earns every penny of that salary because he uses his head to gain. If he was ruining people's lives he would be strapped with lawsuits quicker than you or I could type responses to each other. You must have a good, and legal reason to fire somebody. I am 100% convinced he asks each staff member of every aquisition he's ever gotten to compile a summary of their duties and benefit to the company and fires those that are just taking up space.

Apparently you missed the part where he builds $15,000,000 medical centers out of his own pocket. So that money wasn't taken from him in taxes...so what? You know where that money probably would have ended up? Over in Iraq.

TheSystemLord1

Why should we be rewarding gambling so heavily at the expense of contribution? I make more money on stocks in a year than I do as a music instructor - but where is the greatest contribution I make coming from? It's NOT from the gambling! It doesn't matter if what he was doing is risky. What matters here is that he became enormously wealthy by contributing almost nothing of value to society. That's what irritates me.

The law, as you well know, is designed to protect the rich. If you buy a company and lay off most of its employees and slash the benefits packages for those who remain, you have done NOTHING illegal, and no one can sue you. Even if they did, you could squash them like a bug with your financial resources and superior legal resources. You have adversely affected the lives of everyone in that company, and no one can do a thing about it. You can say "fine, they can go somewhere else to work." But where the heck are they going to go? In reality, they'll just go get exploited by a different rich person. That's how the game is played. And it's a crappy game for most people. Again, the guy is getting rich by eliminating other peoples' jobs. That isn't a contribution, unless you think contributing to unemployment is a noble cause.

I've already addressed his contributions to charity. I'm glad that he's contributing something. But I'd prefer if he was instead charged a tax rate of 98%. Exorbitant? Not really, since he'd still be making $1000/hour. And I frankly wouldn't care if that isn't enough incentive to keep gambling and he stops doing it, because it would be no loss to society whatsoever if the practices this guy employs were all purged.

Now on the issue of misuse of tax money, I agree wholeheartedly. It would end up just being wasted on someone else's agenda. But again, that's a product of the crappy system we choose to perpetuate. In a way, this guy's just a symptom of a much larger problem, and that's why I really see no reason why people would hate him. Hate the system, and the ideals behind it instead.

Why should we be rewarding gambling so heavily at the expense of contribution? I make more money on stocks in a year than I do as a music instructor - but where is the greatest contribution I make coming from? It's NOT from the gambling! It doesn't matter if what he was doing is risky. What matters here is that he became enormously wealthy by contributing nothing of value to society. That's what irritates me.

The law, as you well know, is designed to protect the rich. If you buy a company and lay off most of its employees and slash the benefits packages for those who remain, you have done NOTHING illegal, and no one can sue you. But you have adversely affected the lives of everyone in that company. You can say "fine, they can go somewhere else to work." But where the heck are they going to go? In reality, they'll just go get exploited by a different rich person. That's how the game is played. And it's a crappy game for most people. Again, the guy is getting rich by eliminating other peoples' jobs. That isn't a contribution, unless you think contributing to unemployment is a noble cause.

I've already addressed his contributions to charity. I'm glad that he's contributing something. But I'd prefer if he was instead charged a tax rate of 98%. Exorbitant? Not really, since he'd still be making $1000/hour. And I frankly wouldn't care if that isn't enough incentive to keep gambling and he stops doing it, because it would be no loss to society whatsoever if the practices this guy employs were all purged.

Now on the issue of misuse of tax money, I agree wholeheartedly. It would end up just being wasted on someone else's agenda. But again, that's a product of the crappy system we choose to perpetuate. In a way, this guy's just a symptom of a much larger problem, and that's why I really see no reason why people would hate him. Hate the system, and the ideals behind it instead.

pianist

What it becomes then is an issue of whether or not these men know when to stop, is that what you're saying? When is enough enough?

What it becomes then is an issue of whether or not these men know when to stop, is that what you're saying? When is enough enough?

TheSystemLord1

In a way, yes. But it's also how the money is being earned that irks me. If a person makes an excellent living, it should be for contributing something positive to society. That is an opinion, of course, but it's also the basis for my opinion on this guy and on our current practice of capitalism.

Incidentally, I respect that you have a very different viewpoint, and acknowledge that my point of view is no more valid than yours.

Smart, ruthless businessmen make more money then us, *jealous*hockeyboy222

There's no need to be jealous. Does anyone really need even a fraction of what this guy has to live a fulfilling life? Though I obviously can't speak from experience, I wouldn't think he feels any more fulfilled than I do. If you don't have a desire for vast wealth, not having it isn't going to negatively affect your life.

[QUOTE="TheSystemLord1"]

What it becomes then is an issue of whether or not these men know when to stop, is that what you're saying? When is enough enough?

pianist

In a way, yes. But it's also how the money is being earned that irks me. If a person makes an excellent living, it should be for contributing something positive to society. That is an opinion, of course, but it's also the basis for my opinion on this guy and on our current practice of capitalism.

Incidentally, I respect that you have a very different viewpoint, and acknowledge that my point of view is no more valid than yours.

Likewise, although I tend to believe that I'd strike a balance. Like I said I've lived the poor life...very poor in fact. I do know when enough is enough though. I doubt I'd turn into Henry Kravis.

Argument over, it was alot of fun actually.

Likewise, although I tend to believe that I'd strike a balance. Like I said I've lived the poor life...very poor in fact. I do know when enough is enough though. I doubt I'd turn into Henry Kravis.

Argument over, it was alot of fun actually.

TheSystemLord1

To be honest, I never felt this was an argument. It was a very good discussion, though, and indeed fun. I'm glad to hear you don't want to become the next Henry Kravis, and I can understand why you have an aspiration and motivation to never be poor again.

Best of luck.

**** really pisses me off , billionaire ****s who rule the world by ruining other people's lives .DisgustingRandomLoler

It's not like they didn't work extremely hard to get to their status as billionaires.. do note that I'm aware there are exceptions to my previous statement.