How americans lost their jobs over glass screens

If you don't get the title just read the link

How the U.S. Lost Out on iPhone Work

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/business/apple-america-and-a-squeezed-middle-class.html?pagewanted=all

This is for all the defenders of free market. I don't think how it's dangers can get clearer than that. I know many (surrealnumber) would say "bu... but teh regulationzz!!!". Well let's see what would american workers have to do to match chinese workers without any regulations to bring jobs back home. This paragraph summarizes it

"The facility has 230,000 employees, many working six days a week, often spending up to 12 hours a day at the plant. Over a quarter of Foxconn's work force lives in company barracks and many workers earn less than $17 a day."

This is the same Foxconn epmployees who recently threatened with suicide. So with the glorious free market you either let the chinese be your slaves and take your jobs away from you or you become your own slvaes but don't you dare threaten to commit suicide because that's like an union thing and threfore evil for holy capitalism.

Who can still defend the free market?

You would think that the Chinese government, being the socialist/communist country that they are, would have workers rights as a priority. But what you mention is aproblem with the global economy in general. How can you compete with people that use labor from those excessively cheap markets. If you are a company with good intentions, than either you go out of business or you are forced to use that labor force.

Now if all of these things that are made in China were to be made in the U.S. with what American's generally make in salary, the price for these goods would go through the roof. I would rather not have to spend an extra $50 on an iPhone just to have it made here.Johnny_Rock

Now if all of these things that are made in China were to be made in the U.S. with what American's generally make in salary, the price for these goods would go through the roof. I would rather not have to spend an extra $50 on an iPhone just to have it made here.Johnny_Rock

The free market is stupid. Everything is stupid. Humans are stupid. Sh!t just got more stupid.

[QUOTE="Johnny_Rock"]Now if all of these things that are made in China were to be made in the U.S. with what American's generally make in salary, the price for these goods would go through the roof. I would rather not have to spend an extra $50 on an iPhone just to have it made here.kuraimen

You would think that the Chinese government, being the socialist/communist country that they are, would have workers rights as a priority. But what you mention is aproblem with the global economy in general. How can you compete with people that use labor from those excessively cheap markets. If you are a company with good intentions, than either you go out of business or you are forced to use that labor force.

sonicare

I know many (surrealnumber) would say "bu... but teh regulationzz!!!".

kuraimen

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]

I know many (surrealnumber) would say "bu... but teh regulationzz!!!".

Jandurin

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]

I know many (surrealnumber) would say "bu... but teh regulationzz!!!".

Jandurin

Or he got suspended for misbehaving :Pkuraimen

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="Johnny_Rock"]Now if all of these things that are made in China were to be made in the U.S. with what American's generally make in salary, the price for these goods would go through the roof. I would rather not have to spend an extra $50 on an iPhone just to have it made here.Johnny_Rock

What you fail to recognize is that if all governments went by your rhetoric (using minimum wage type model) virtually every product would cost more and economies wouldn't be as robust as they are right now. People would be more reluctant to buy these products causing lost revenues and profits.DroidPhysX

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]Or he got suspended for misbehaving :PJandurin

Actually, speaking of the iPhone market, there's something interesting I want to point out about it and China.

Phone manufacturers have been moving their business to the country, and for reasons easily discerned (low wages), but the manner in which the iPhone market is influencing China is something that other industries cannot accomplish: increase in affluence. Due to the iPhone market, as well as other smart phone markets, making their way into the country, the devices sell for prices the Chinese are increasingly able to afford, resulting in an increase in information access and personal freedom. Given this, the population of China has become increasingly vocal over, among other things, how Chinese worker safety is abyssmal. Citizens are speaking out about neurological and physical damage they have suffered from unprotected or sub-par protected exposure to manufacturing chemicals, shedding light on shady business practices and forcing corporations to regulate themselves rather than ignore government regulations which, in all honesty, fine much less than the cost of actually doing something about it.

So, in summary, the iPhone market has increased the affluence of Chinese citizens and has made them more vocal about injustices in worker safety.

Just wanted to point this out.

Actually, speaking of the iPhone market, there's something interesting I want to point out about it and China.

Phone manufacturers have been moving their business to the country, and for reasons easily discerned (low wages), but the manner in which the iPhone market is influencing China is something that other industries cannot accomplish: increase in affluence. Due to the iPhone market, as well as other smart phone markets, making their way into the country, the devices sell for prices the Chinese are increasingly able to afford, resulting in an increase in information access and personal freedom. Given this, the population of China has become increasingly vocal over, among other things, how Chinese worker safety is abyssmal. Citizens are speaking out about neurological and physical damage they have suffered from unprotected or sub-par protected exposure to manufacturing chemicals, shedding light on shady business practices and forcing corporations to regulate themselves rather than ignore government regulations which, in all honesty, fine much less than the cost of actually doing something about it.

So, in summary, the iPhone market has increased the affluence of Chinese citizens and has made them more vocal about injustices in worker safety.

Just wanted to point this out.

THE_DRUGGIE

[QUOTE="THE_DRUGGIE"]

Actually, speaking of the iPhone market, there's something interesting I want to point out about it and China.

Phone manufacturers have been moving their business to the country, and for reasons easily discerned (low wages), but the manner in which the iPhone market is influencing China is something that other industries cannot accomplish: increase in affluence. Due to the iPhone market, as well as other smart phone markets, making their way into the country, the devices sell for prices the Chinese are increasingly able to afford, resulting in an increase in information access and personal freedom. Given this, the population of China has become increasingly vocal over, among other things, how Chinese worker safety is abyssmal. Citizens are speaking out about neurological and physical damage they have suffered from unprotected or sub-par protected exposure to manufacturing chemicals, shedding light on shady business practices and forcing corporations to regulate themselves rather than ignore government regulations which, in all honesty, fine much less than the cost of actually doing something about it.

So, in summary, the iPhone market has increased the affluence of Chinese citizens and has made them more vocal about injustices in worker safety.

Just wanted to point this out.

kuraimen

There are important things to note about regulations that people tend to forget at times, such as the fine for failure to adhere being less than adherance. This means that the regulation is ineffective in itself and follows the philosophy that corporations will take the more expensive option in favor of adherence, something that is incredibly, incredibly rare.

However, the best kind of regulation is one that works off an incentive, or rather giving subsidies to a corporation who adheres to the regulation, thus making costly ventures the same or less than the price of refusing to adhere and is generally viewed as more of a win-win scenario since the corporations will adhere to government regulation and corporations do not have to sacrifice profit to do so. So, due to the rapid loss of manufacturing jobs in the US over the past years, one of the best (if not THE best) options is to eliminate the complaint of overregulation by instututing regulations that work off an incentive rather than strict adherence with fines for not doing so.

Just my two cents.

Also, I agree that unions are important.

The article brings up some interesting points. They basically out-competed us at the cost of their workers's personal freedoms. It's good for businsess but not for the regular person's quality of life. They're little more than property of the company now.

Interesting tidbit from the article that sums it up pretty well.

A foreman immediately roused 8,000 workers inside the company's dormitories, according to the executive. Each employee was given a biscuit and a cup of tea, guided to a workstation and within half an hour started a 12-hour shift fitting glass screens into beveled frames. Within 96 hours, the plant was producing over 10,000 iPhones a day.

Who can still defend the free market?

kuraimen

Anyone who purchased an iPhone?

[QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="kuraimen"]Or he got suspended for misbehaving :Pkuraimen

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="Jandurin"] awww He's monitoring this thread DON'T LET ON THAT YOU KNOW It would have been funnier, else. Edit: Then again, calling him out when you know he's suspended and him noticing is probably pretty satisfying too.sonicare

[QUOTE="sonicare"][QUOTE="kuraimen"] I think there are many more pro free market people here who can handle his job temporarily ;) And even if he was here I'm pretty sure he has me on ignore by now.Jandurin

[QUOTE="sonicare"]

You would think that the Chinese government, being the socialist/communist country that they are, would have workers rights as a priority. But what you mention is aproblem with the global economy in general. How can you compete with people that use labor from those excessively cheap markets. If you are a company with good intentions, than either you go out of business or you are forced to use that labor force.

kuraimen

Apple wasn't forced to do anything, their profit margins for the past four years have been over 20 percent.

The conservative view is not less regulations. It's more smart common sense regulations, and less lobby influenced regulations and regulators. DevilMightCry

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="Jandurin"] awww He's monitoring this thread DON'T LET ON THAT YOU KNOW It would have been funnier, else. Edit: Then again, calling him out when you know he's suspended and him noticing is probably pretty satisfying too.sonicare

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="sonicare"]

You would think that the Chinese government, being the socialist/communist country that they are, would have workers rights as a priority. But what you mention is aproblem with the global economy in general. How can you compete with people that use labor from those excessively cheap markets. If you are a company with good intentions, than either you go out of business or you are forced to use that labor force.

Frattracide

Apple wasn't forced to do anything, their profit margins for the past four years have been over 20 percent.

You know who's to blame? All of us who complain about prices, then give up "Made in USA" and shop at WalMart, or ebay for cheap Chinese crap, instead of buying American you HAVE TO HAVE THAT iPad or iPhone. Or supporting politicians who don't want to reform our tax system and who work with lobbyists to craft a system that benefits those few. Blame yourselves. DevilMightCry