I am not a big mettalica fan, but if Cliff Burton had not died do you think bass

This topic is locked from further discussion.

Avatar image for Mercenary848
Mercenary848

12143

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#1 Mercenary848
Member since 2007 • 12143 Posts

Bass playing would be more in the spotlight, besides Gessy Lee(rush), John Entwhistle(The who), Flea(RHCP), Geezer Butler(sabbath), Paul Mcarthy, and a few other bands outside the funk genre bass does not take on that large of a roll or garner as much spotlight. Cliff Burton was amazing, and it would have been incredible to see what he could come up with today.

Avatar image for Jph625
Jph625

1046

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#2 Jph625
Member since 2009 • 1046 Posts

Maybe, hard to say. Its not very appealing to most mainstream music fans because you can't rip a nasty solo ala the Geetar

Avatar image for Mercenary848
Mercenary848

12143

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#3 Mercenary848
Member since 2007 • 12143 Posts

Maybe, hard to say. Its not very appealing to most mainstream music fans because you can't rip a nasty solo ala the Geetar

Jph625

Say that to the Ox

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVl39LBZGMw

Avatar image for Mercenary848
Mercenary848

12143

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#4 Mercenary848
Member since 2007 • 12143 Posts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgrOD4PZzuY

Also bootsie collins

Avatar image for PernicioEnigma
PernicioEnigma

6663

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#5 PernicioEnigma
Member since 2010 • 6663 Posts

Maybe, hard to say. Its not very appealing to most mainstream music fans because you can't rip a nasty solo ala the Geetar

Jph625

If you're Rainer Landfermann you can.

Avatar image for Jph625
Jph625

1046

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#6 Jph625
Member since 2009 • 1046 Posts

There is a reason why I said to the general, mainstream music fan. If you're listening to a song and have no concept of music or instruments you probably can't even tell the difference between bass and guitar. Moreover, it seems like the majority of individuals don't even know that you can do something on bass other then play in the background for the lead guitarist.

Also, most bassists are boring, comparatively speaking. I'm not talking about the exception, but the rule, so please don't like me some random guy who is crazy and plays bass.

Avatar image for SF_KiLLaMaN
SF_KiLLaMaN

6446

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#7 SF_KiLLaMaN
Member since 2007 • 6446 Posts

Are you kidding? Steve Harris IS Iron Maiden. I don't think it would be any more in the spotlight. There are plenty of amazing bassists out there.

Avatar image for FFCYAN
FFCYAN

4969

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#8 FFCYAN
Member since 2005 • 4969 Posts

I don't see the point in speculating. The man is dead. Bass players have and will always be in the background.

Avatar image for VendettaRed07
VendettaRed07

14012

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#9 VendettaRed07
Member since 2007 • 14012 Posts

Idk if it would have effected bass playing in general.. But I think metallicas next few albums after Master of Puppets would have sucked alot less

Avatar image for theone86
theone86

22669

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#10 theone86
Member since 2003 • 22669 Posts

I'm a huge bass fan and Cliff was great, but if you can't find good base then you're not looking hard enough. There are a ton of great bass songs out there in the blues rock genre; White Stripes do some good things with bass I dunno what you'd consider them; Tool, Les Claypool, Tom Petty's done some good songs, Led Zepplin, Queens of the Stone Age, there's actually good base almost anywhere you look on the American/British rock spectrum. The only thing is that it isn't as prominent as guitar thanks to trends, guitarists typically being the lead men or women, and so forth.

Avatar image for QuebecSuperstar
QuebecSuperstar

4178

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#11 QuebecSuperstar
Member since 2006 • 4178 Posts

I never understood why Cliff Burton is always getting so much appraisal for how great of a bassman he supposedly is. I admit, I'm not a Metallica fan at all but what I've seen/heard from him never impressed me.

Can anybody point me to one of his 'legendary' performance on YouTube?

Avatar image for theone86
theone86

22669

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#12 theone86
Member since 2003 • 22669 Posts

I never understood why Cliff Burton is always getting so much appraisal for how great of a bassman he supposedly is. I admit, I'm not a Metallica fan at all but what I've seen/heard from him never impressed me.

Can anybody point me to one of his 'legendary' performance on YouTube?

QuebecSuperstar

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzMJhOwBLqw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iOmo0ZuyNk&feature=related

That, plus he's a really insane background player. If you listen to Puppets, that entire album is basically made up of songs where he's just thrasing, but it doesn't really stand out because the rest of the band is as well. He was an extremely fast bassist.

Avatar image for Blue_Whistle88
Blue_Whistle88

25

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#13 Blue_Whistle88
Member since 2009 • 25 Posts
I don't put Cliff on a particularly high pedestal, though it was a very good player and a very good musician. His problem was that his sound/tone was a horrible choice for the instrument, he should have been a guitar player. He also didn't play the instrument in a way that I consider to be very original, and failed to really understand the role of it in a band situation, though of course the rest of the people in Metallica were (and still are) closed-minded heavy metalers who just want loud, fast aggression, so I suppose sound quality isn't something they were concerned with. This is also evident in the terrible production almost all their albums have had, including ALL their early ones. Geddy Lee, John Entwhistle, Chris Squire, Marcus Miller, Justin Chancellor, John Myung, and Chrstopher Wolsteholme are all good examples of bass players who play the insturment well, applying it to a band situation effectively, while still pushing the boundaries of the instrument and what it can do. Cliff Burton was just a heavy metal guitarist who wanted to play bass, and made a horrible sound on it. Too many pedals, too much distortion; take all that crap away and let the instrument resonate the way it was naturally intended and I'm sure he would have sounded great. I don't have anything against pedals on bass, but there are good ways to use them and there are bad ways, plus Cliff's technique wasn't anything stellar and probably didn't help (proper string-muting technique being pretty much mandatory with distortion use, etc). This is all from my perspective as a bass player and a musician, though even as a listener I have to come back to what I said earlier about Metallica's album production. All the earlier ones sounded weak and thin, with insufficient low end, and more recent ones are far too loud and STILL manage to lack low end. Some later Jason Newstead-era albums actually sounded quite sweet, so I guess that was why Metallica hated Jason so much and wanted him to leave; he made the band actually sound good :/
Avatar image for Big_Bad_Sad
Big_Bad_Sad

18243

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#14 Big_Bad_Sad
Member since 2005 • 18243 Posts

Maybe, hard to say. Its not very appealing to most mainstream music fans because you can't rip a nasty solo ala the Geetar

Jph625
Cliff had a decent bass solo on Kill em All.
Avatar image for theone86
theone86

22669

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#15 theone86
Member since 2003 • 22669 Posts

I don't put Cliff on a particularly high pedestal, though it was a very good player and a very good musician. His problem was that his sound/tone was a horrible choice for the instrument, he should have been a guitar player. He also didn't play the instrument in a way that I consider to be very original, and failed to really understand the role of it in a band situation, though of course the rest of the people in Metallica were (and still are) closed-minded heavy metalers who just want loud, fast aggression, so I suppose sound quality isn't something they were concerned with. This is also evident in the terrible production almost all their albums have had, including ALL their early ones. Geddy Lee, John Entwhistle, Chris Squire, Marcus Miller, Justin Chancellor, John Myung, and Chrstopher Wolsteholme are all good examples of bass players who play the insturment well, applying it to a band situation effectively, while still pushing the boundaries of the instrument and what it can do. Cliff Burton was just a heavy metal guitarist who wanted to play bass, and made a horrible sound on it. Too many pedals, too much distortion; take all that crap away and let the instrument resonate the way it was naturally intended and I'm sure he would have sounded great. I don't have anything against pedals on bass, but there are good ways to use them and there are bad ways, plus Cliff's technique wasn't anything stellar and probably didn't help (proper string-muting technique being pretty much mandatory with distortion use, etc). This is all from my perspective as a bass player and a musician, though even as a listener I have to come back to what I said earlier about Metallica's album production. All the earlier ones sounded weak and thin, with insufficient low end, and more recent ones are far too loud and STILL manage to lack low end. Some later Jason Newstead-era albums actually sounded quite sweet, so I guess that was why Metallica hated Jason so much and wanted him to leave; he made the band actually sound good :/Blue_Whistle88

Ummm...I disagree with the classification of the band as thrashers, though you seem to have legit complaints with Cliff. I'll agree that Kill em All is thrash and they still retained a thrash element up until Black (can't comment on Death Metallic, and calling St. Anger thrash is an insult to thrash), but I find there's a lot of stuff they do that's very symphonic and where they try some pretty cool things (Nothing Else Matters, No Leaf Clover). They really moved away from thrash to a very noticable degree after Justice, and even then had been slowly becoming less one-dimensional basically since KEA. Now that's not to say they're the best songwriters around, when they moved away from thrash they became a lot more simplistic on the whole, I just think it's an unfair cla$$ification as probably 90% of what they've released wouldn't be considered thrash by most thrashers.

Avatar image for entropyecho
entropyecho

22053

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#16 entropyecho
Member since 2005 • 22053 Posts

What about Les Claypool? Victor Wooten?

Avatar image for octoman115
octoman115

765

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 4

User Lists: 0

#17 octoman115
Member since 2010 • 765 Posts

I love the bass intro to Souls of Black.

Avatar image for JuggaloRandall
JuggaloRandall

8213

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#18 JuggaloRandall
Member since 2010 • 8213 Posts
You seemed to have forgotten Les Claypool and Victor Wooten. My friend is a bass player and those are his idols. Honestly though I don't think that if Cliff would have survived Bass players would be more in the spotlight. Cliff Burton was great with his volume pedal and really digging into the strings. Most people think the intro of For Whom The Bell Tolls was all played on electric guitar, but I have had to explain, and even argue with people that the solo in the intro is actually Cliff Burton on Bass.
Avatar image for Blue_Whistle88
Blue_Whistle88

25

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#19 Blue_Whistle88
Member since 2009 • 25 Posts

Ummm...I disagree with the classification of the band as thrashers, though you seem to have legit complaints with Cliff. I'll agree that Kill em All is thrash and they still retained a thrash element up until Black (can't comment on Death Metallic, and calling St. Anger thrash is an insult to thrash), but I find there's a lot of stuff they do that's very symphonic and where they try some pretty cool things (Nothing Else Matters, No Leaf Clover). They really moved away from thrash to a very noticable degree after Justice, and even then had been slowly becoming less one-dimensional basically since KEA. Now that's not to say they're the best songwriters around, when they moved away from thrash they became a lot more simplistic on the whole, I just think it's an unfair cla$$ification as probably 90% of what they've released wouldn't be considered thrash by most thrashers.

theone86

First of all, to people people mentioning Les Claypool and Victor Wooten, yes, those two guys are also very good players and very good at applying their abilities in a band situation, though I personally find Victor's music slightly boring but that's just an issue of personal preference (however I have no faults with his abilities as a bass player whatsoever, I think he's amazing). Les Claypool is actually a very good example, because aside from being a very good bass player and a very good musician in general, he pushed the envelope of the instrument such a way that was brought to mainstream attention, which is a great achievement, and all their music echos that same sort of theme.

Now, in reply to the actual post I'm quoting, you're points about songs such as No Leaf Clover and No Leaf Clover are very valid, those songs are quite cool and do some interesting things given the genre that Metallica function in. I'm not criticising those parts of their career, I'm criticising Cliff Burton as a bass player and his place in Metallica. IMO, Jason Newstead was the best bass player they ever had, because all the albums they made that (from a production point of view) pass grade were with him, though ....And Justice For All having literally no bass on it is obviously quite crap. Metallica from the late 80's up until the mid-late 90's were a legitimately good band IMO, but everything since Jason left has been a total trainwreck. The Napster lawsuit, ok that wasn't so unjustified, but St Anger and yes, EVEN Death Magnetic mark low points for them. Robert Trujillo is a wicked bass player, better than Jason Newstead, so it's puzzling why DM didn't turn out better, but I guess that's just Metallica for you.

Their albums with Cliff sounded thin, weak, lacked low end, lacked general tonal definition, and weren't as progressive as so many people claim. Metallica were thrash for a few albums but never really did thrash properly; they are, and have always been, a heavy metal band, badly produced and over-hyped. Those last two factors are coincidentally the exact same issues I believe Cliff Burton had.

Avatar image for cornholio157
cornholio157

4603

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 6

User Lists: 0

#20 cornholio157
Member since 2005 • 4603 Posts

id just like to point out Rush's bass players name is Geddy Lee, although Gessy is an understandable typo. also its Paul McCartney, Paul McCarthy is an artist(non music).

Avatar image for Mr_Manikin52
Mr_Manikin52

12300

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#21 Mr_Manikin52
Member since 2004 • 12300 Posts

????

Bass guitar is the SEX, bro!

Avatar image for yellosnolvr
yellosnolvr

19302

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 24

User Lists: 0

#22 yellosnolvr
Member since 2005 • 19302 Posts
being a bassist, i would have to say it'd be more popular. but it just depends on what kind of music genre you're looking at. 'alternative' bands definitely have bass doing more than just keeping the tempo and whatnot. tool, a perfect circle, nine inch nails (mainly 2005-07 performances) and janes addiction (minus new stuff. can confirm eric avery is still a beast live though) really put emphasis on the bass. i will say that there are a lot of metal/screamo/emo/punk/whatever bands out there that have bass playing a large role in music, but a larger percent of alternative-ish bands seem to at least have the volume on the bass amp higher than normal. but like i said,it all depends on what the person likes or prefers. again, being a bassist, i tend to listen to basslines more often, therefore they usually receive more praise on my end. to really link all of this to the topic, cliff burton was probably somewhat of an inspiration to at least some person (or people) and his holiness' presence on this earth being extended further than 1986, bass would definitely have a large role in metallica's music, and a somewhat large amount of bassists, but not on the average listener. hopefully that opinion at least somewhat coherent, as i am really tired right now :[ p.s. rob trujillo can still pull off pretty sexy bass solos.
Avatar image for KHAndAnime
KHAndAnime

17565

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#23 KHAndAnime
Member since 2009 • 17565 Posts
I think bass guitar does just fine without him.
Avatar image for Mercenary848
Mercenary848

12143

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#24 Mercenary848
Member since 2007 • 12143 Posts

id just like to point out Rush's bass players name is Geddy Lee, although Gessy is an understandable typo. also its Paul McCartney, Paul McCarthy is an artist(non music).

cornholio157

Sorry my typing has been crap latly, and I have been speeding through my op.

Avatar image for Mercenary848
Mercenary848

12143

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#25 Mercenary848
Member since 2007 • 12143 Posts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_70kaOXrlU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBj-7VhDTh0&feature=related

Wwe need more bass players like this.

Avatar image for v13_KiiLtz
v13_KiiLtz

2791

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#26 v13_KiiLtz
Member since 2010 • 2791 Posts
John Deacon anyone?