I need help, math nerds! Is probability possible when dealing with infinity?

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yabbicoke

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#1 yabbicoke
Member since 2007 • 4069 Posts

So I was just wondering this today. Let's say there are indeed an infinite number of universes, and you manage to build a gateway leading to them. However, the gateway cannot go to a specific universe of your choosing, when you turn it on it simply leads to a completely random universe... one out of the infinite amount. My question: is probability even possible in this situation? Let's say you walk through your gateway and end up in universe B, since there's an infinite number of universes wouldn't the probability of you ending up there be one out of infinity? How is that possible?

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rawsavon

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#2 rawsavon
Member since 2004 • 40001 Posts

1/infinity
...short answer: the probability is 0 of landing in a specific universe

Long answer:
since you have not reached that level in mathematics
HERE

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GazaAli

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#3 GazaAli
Member since 2007 • 25216 Posts
In such a situation, there is no meaning to the notion of probability. When you talk about probability, you are talking about the chances that a certain situation or outcome will happen out of many others, but in this case, many is infinity, so no it can't be. Simply the probability of going to universe B in this situation is 1/infinity which equals 0.
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Gustav_Mahler

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#4 Gustav_Mahler
Member since 2010 • 25 Posts
[QUOTE="rawsavon"]1/infinity ...short answer: the probability is 0 of landing in a specific universe

That. And before the rabble assemble with placards reading 'this implies that going to another universe is impossible', no it doesn't.
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markop2003

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#5 markop2003
Member since 2005 • 29917 Posts

1/infinity = 0.000...01 = 0

As: if 0.000...01 = n
10n = 0.000...01
10n - n = 9n
0.000...01 - 0.000...01 = 0

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Animatronic64

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#6 Animatronic64
Member since 2010 • 3971 Posts

There's a chance that you would end up in Universe B, if you wanted to end up there in the first place. However, if it randomly selects one out of infinite, there is no way to calculate the probability. You need a definite number.

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Gustav_Mahler

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#7 Gustav_Mahler
Member since 2010 • 25 Posts
0.000...01markop2003
There is no such number.
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clayron

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#8 clayron
Member since 2003 • 10121 Posts
No, probability deals with the chance that an outcome can occur among a finite number of outcomes.
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EJ902

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#9 EJ902
Member since 2005 • 14338 Posts
No, probability deals with the chance that an outcome can occur among a finite number of outcomes. clayron
I think continuous random variables can have an infinite number of outcomes, though that doesn't apply here since what the TC is describing isn't a continuous variable. I guess there probably is something in statistics that deals with this
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rawsavon

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#10 rawsavon
Member since 2004 • 40001 Posts
. I guess there probably is something in statistics that deals with thisEJ902
Not that I ever saw...at least not in undergrad stat courses Maybe in grad school though
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face_ripper

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#11 face_ripper
Member since 2010 • 968 Posts
Staying into topic, the short answer is no it is not possible
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Same_Jeans_On

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#12 Same_Jeans_On
Member since 2007 • 1171 Posts
[QUOTE="markop2003"]0.000...01Gustav_Mahler
There is no such number.

of course there is...
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SolidSnake35

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#14 SolidSnake35
Member since 2005 • 58971 Posts
I had to deal with that when doing the fine-tuning argument in an exam a month ago. I decided to use infinity and probability together is a bad idea. >_>
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SolidSnake35

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#15 SolidSnake35
Member since 2005 • 58971 Posts
[QUOTE="Gustav_Mahler"][QUOTE="markop2003"]0.000...01Same_Jeans_On
There is no such number.

of course there is...

You just call it an infinitesimal.
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Wolls

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#16 Wolls
Member since 2005 • 19119 Posts
Well i guess yes the probability of you landing in universe B is 1 in an infinite....however because you are certain to land in a universe it doesn't matter
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Stesilaus

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#17 Stesilaus
Member since 2007 • 4999 Posts

In such a situation, there is no meaning to the notion of probability. When you talk about probability, you are talking about the chances that a certain situation or outcome will happen out of many others, but in this case, many is infinity, so no it can't be. Simply the probability of going to universe B in this situation is 1/infinity which equals 0.GazaAli

I must disagree with this. You may be interested in an infinite set of outcomes, which form a proper subset of an infinite set of possibilities. In that case, the probability doesn't necessarily degenerate to zero.

Consider this example: Suppose you pick a point at random on the real number line. Is it more likely to be a rational number or an irrational number? You're dealing with infinite sets when you ask that question, but the notion of probability is still very relevant!

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Animatronic64

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#19 Animatronic64
Member since 2010 • 3971 Posts

[QUOTE="GazaAli"]In such a situation, there is no meaning to the notion of probability. When you talk about probability, you are talking about the chances that a certain situation or outcome will happen out of many others, but in this case, many is infinity, so no it can't be. Simply the probability of going to universe B in this situation is 1/infinity which equals 0.Stesilaus

I must disagree with this. You may be interested in an infinite set of outcomes, which form a proper subset of an infinite set of possibilities. In that case, the probability doesn't necessarily degenerate to zero.

Consider this example: Suppose you pick a point at random on the real number line. Is it more likely to be a rational number or an irrational number? You're dealing with infinite sets when you ask that question, but the notion of probability is still very relevant!

If there are infinite universes and you select one at random, what is the probability it being, say, universe 28?

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Same_Jeans_On

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#20 Same_Jeans_On
Member since 2007 • 1171 Posts

[QUOTE="Stesilaus"]

[QUOTE="GazaAli"]In such a situation, there is no meaning to the notion of probability. When you talk about probability, you are talking about the chances that a certain situation or outcome will happen out of many others, but in this case, many is infinity, so no it can't be. Simply the probability of going to universe B in this situation is 1/infinity which equals 0.Animatronic64

I must disagree with this. You may be interested in an infinite set of outcomes, which form a proper subset of an infinite set of possibilities. In that case, the probability doesn't necessarily degenerate to zero.

Consider this example: Suppose you pick a point at random on the real number line. Is it more likely to be a rational number or an irrational number? You're dealing with infinite sets when you ask that question, but the notion of probability is still very relevant!

If there are infinite universes and you select one at random, what is the probability it being, say, universe 28?

1 in infinity.
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Animatronic64

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#21 Animatronic64
Member since 2010 • 3971 Posts
[QUOTE="Animatronic64"]

[QUOTE="Stesilaus"]

I must disagree with this. You may be interested in an infinite set of outcomes, which form a proper subset of an infinite set of possibilities. In that case, the probability doesn't necessarily degenerate to zero.

Consider this example: Suppose you pick a point at random on the real number line. Is it more likely to be a rational number or an irrational number? You're dealing with infinite sets when you ask that question, but the notion of probability is still very relevant!

Same_Jeans_On

If there are infinite universes and you select one at random, what is the probability it being, say, universe 28?

1 in infinity.

That's not a probability.
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rawsavon

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#22 rawsavon
Member since 2004 • 40001 Posts
[QUOTE="Animatronic64"]

[QUOTE="Stesilaus"]

I must disagree with this. You may be interested in an infinite set of outcomes, which form a proper subset of an infinite set of possibilities. In that case, the probability doesn't necessarily degenerate to zero.

Consider this example: Suppose you pick a point at random on the real number line. Is it more likely to be a rational number or an irrational number? You're dealing with infinite sets when you ask that question, but the notion of probability is still very relevant!

Same_Jeans_On

If there are infinite universes and you select one at random, what is the probability it being, say, universe 28?

1 in infinity.

which, for all intents and purposes, is 0 or .0000000 (an infinite number of 0's) 1
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Same_Jeans_On

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#23 Same_Jeans_On
Member since 2007 • 1171 Posts

[QUOTE="Same_Jeans_On"][QUOTE="Animatronic64"]If there are infinite universes and you select one at random, what is the probability it being, say, universe 28?

rawsavon

1 in infinity.

which, for all intents and purposes, is 0 or .0000000 (an infinite number of 0's) 1

no the probability cannot be 0 as it has to land in a universe regardless, so there is still a chance it could be that universe.

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Animatronic64

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#24 Animatronic64
Member since 2010 • 3971 Posts

[QUOTE="rawsavon"][QUOTE="Same_Jeans_On"] 1 in infinity.Same_Jeans_On

which, for all intents and purposes, is 0 or .0000000 (an infinite number of 0's) 1

no the probability cannot be 0 as it has to land in a universe regardless, so there is still a chance it could be that universe.

1 in infinity is illogical in terms of probability.
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Same_Jeans_On

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#25 Same_Jeans_On
Member since 2007 • 1171 Posts
[QUOTE="Same_Jeans_On"]

[QUOTE="rawsavon"] which, for all intents and purposes, is 0 or .0000000 (an infinite number of 0's) 1Animatronic64

no the probability cannot be 0 as it has to land in a universe regardless, so there is still a chance it could be that universe.

1 in infinity is illogical in terms of probability.

I mean 1/infinity.
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Bluestorm-Kalas

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#26 Bluestorm-Kalas
Member since 2006 • 13073 Posts

Mathematically it would be 0.

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rawsavon

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#27 rawsavon
Member since 2004 • 40001 Posts

[QUOTE="rawsavon"][QUOTE="Same_Jeans_On"] 1 in infinity.Same_Jeans_On

which, for all intents and purposes, is 0 or .0000000 (an infinite number of 0's) 1

no the probability cannot be 0 as it has to land in a universe regardless, so there is still a chance it could be that universe.

The probability of hitting a Universe is 100% The probability of hitting universe is 28 is basically 0, unless you would like to write out .00000000 (infinite # of 0's) 1
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rawsavon

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#28 rawsavon
Member since 2004 • 40001 Posts

Mathematically it would be 0.

Bluestorm-Kalas

Yes, we have to use a limit...there is no other way

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Same_Jeans_On

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#29 Same_Jeans_On
Member since 2007 • 1171 Posts
[QUOTE="Bluestorm-Kalas"]

Mathematically it would be 0.

rawsavon
Yes, we have to use a limit...there is not other way

but in actual fact there is no limit.
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rawsavon

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#30 rawsavon
Member since 2004 • 40001 Posts
[QUOTE="rawsavon"][QUOTE="Bluestorm-Kalas"]

Mathematically it would be 0.

Same_Jeans_On
Yes, we have to use a limit...there is not other way

but in actual fact there is no limit.

Like I said, be my guest to write that out I will say 0
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Same_Jeans_On

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#31 Same_Jeans_On
Member since 2007 • 1171 Posts
[QUOTE="rawsavon"][QUOTE="Same_Jeans_On"][QUOTE="rawsavon"] Yes, we have to use a limit...there is not other way

but in actual fact there is no limit.

Like I said, be my guest to write that out I will say 0

well I'll say 0.00...1
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rawsavon

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#32 rawsavon
Member since 2004 • 40001 Posts
[QUOTE="Same_Jeans_On"][QUOTE="rawsavon"][QUOTE="Same_Jeans_On"] but in actual fact there is no limit.

Like I said, be my guest to write that out I will say 0

well I'll say 0.00...1

Touche
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Same_Jeans_On

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#33 Same_Jeans_On
Member since 2007 • 1171 Posts

[QUOTE="Same_Jeans_On"][QUOTE="rawsavon"] Like I said, be my guest to write that out I will say 0rawsavon
well I'll say 0.00...1

Touche

Double Touche

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#34 chessmaster1989
Member since 2008 • 30203 Posts

So I was just wondering this today. Let's say there are indeed an infinite number of universes, and you manage to build a gateway leading to them. However, the gateway cannot go to a specific universe of your choosing, when you turn it on it simply leads to a completely random universe... one out of the infinite amount. My question: is probability even possible in this situation? Let's say you walk through your gateway and end up in universe B, since there's an infinite number of universes wouldn't the probability of you ending up there be one out of infinity? How is that possible?

yabbicoke

It's hard to say. Of course, the sum of the probabilities must add to 1, but beyond that there are no real there is no real way of saying. For example, it could be that only a finite number of the universes has a probability of being drawn, or it could be that there's a continuous distribution that assigns a pdf. Of course, as with any continuous distribution, the probability of any one universe is zero.

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jeremiah06

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#36 jeremiah06
Member since 2004 • 7217 Posts

[QUOTE="Same_Jeans_On"][QUOTE="Animatronic64"]If there are infinite universes and you select one at random, what is the probability it being, say, universe 28?

Animatronic64

1 in infinity.

That's not a probability.

The definition of conundrum...