I saw Sicko today, is America Really that bad?

Yeah i lived in america when i was 12-16 But i dont remember much of it,well atleast not the bad part.

I had free health care because i was under 18 and i dont remember my mom being seriously sick so i didnt know the health system was that bad.

Or was that fat dude exaggerating? Also why do you hate the universal health care that Obama propossed? Is it really because you dont want to be communist?

Either way i m very glad i live in Europe now ;)

Im sure the fat dude exaggerates some. There are some problems with our healthcare system but I believe it works fairly well for the most part

It's not really a documentary on the health care system. Moore's film is a push for a nationalized service, so obviously, it's going to be skewed in that direction. He doesn't go out and interview the average person, he has specific cases that he demonstrates to make his point.

It's a Michael Moore movie, take it more as agenda-fueled propaganda based on certain facts and numbers rather than a documentary.

LOL @ people thinking its propaganda because they dissagree with some of the things brought up.

Sure not all of it is true, but there is a good portion of thigns brought up in this movie that people should know about.

I enjoyed the movie personally.

Just like any Moore movie or any movie like these, dont take em as 100% the truth, but with all the things brought up in these types of movies I bet a good portion is true.

Its like an actor from OZ said once "I dont trust the news so what I do is watch 4 differnt channells to hopefully get a glimpse of the truth thru all these differnt views."

Cant trust everythign Micheal Moore says, but he does bring up soem very good points in all his movies/documentarys what ever you wanna call em.

Im sure the fat dude exaggerates some. There are some problems with our healthcare system but I believe it works fairly well for the most part

Bane_09

Ehh... Most people that are employed full time have some form of medical insurance... And most people that are too old or are on welfare are automatically on medicaid/medicare...

Only a couple million people who actually work have no medical coverage... And even then... It's not as bad as people think... If you break a leg or something... It's not like you go to an emergency room and they say "nope, no money no service"... They are required by law to treat anyone regardless of whether they can pay...

Seeing a doctor for a checkup or getting tests or medicine though... Things like that are difficult as those do require money outside of the medical practices... Medicine for example... I am sure doctors would love to give it away for free... But the multi-billion dollar phamaceutical companies laying in the sun on their yaughts made of gold won't have that...

The entire system cost a lot of money... Most people say doctors are greedy, well I think they have earned the right to make $100,000+... To become a doctor you literally have to spend ~8 years of your life training... And unless you are rich, in the military, or among the top 1% who recieve all the scholarships, by the time those 8 years are up you are hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt... So doctors have well earned what they are asking for...

And the equipment... A GE CT Scan machine might not seem like a big deal... But that hospital probably paid several million dollars for just one of them... And they have several...

Not to mention the plethora of other things...

It's a Michael Moore movie, take it more as agenda-fueled propaganda based on certain facts and numbers rather than a documentary.

MAILER_DAEMON

Of course that is how America is. Movie's never exaggerate anything.

BTW I have never seen Sicko.

[QUOTE="Bane_09"]

Im sure the fat dude exaggerates some. There are some problems with our healthcare system but I believe it works fairly well for the most part

Allicrombie

It helps maintain an unbiased opinion on political matters if you think of people like Michael Moore as board game pieces :P

Yes. It's not like he's pushing a political agenda.

[QUOTE="MAILER_DAEMON"]

It's a Michael Moore movie, take it more as agenda-fueled propaganda based on certain facts and numbers rather than a documentary.

TheArGaia

Yes. It's not like he's pushing a political agenda.

coolbeans90

Never seen the movie but yes it is pretty bad here. If you don't have employer provided health care for one reason or another you are basically out of luck if you have even minor conditions. A person in their 50s who loses their job is in major trouble because even if they're somehow perfectly healthy their premiums will be sky high. It's a "system" that provides nothing for a substantial portion of the population.

[QUOTE="Bane_09"]

Im sure the fat dude exaggerates some. There are some problems with our healthcare system but I believe it works fairly well for the most part

Allicrombie

[QUOTE="TheArGaia"][QUOTE="MAILER_DAEMON"]

It's a Michael Moore movie, take it more as agenda-fueled propaganda based on certain facts and numbers rather than a documentary.

MAILER_DAEMON

It's a Michael Moore movie, take it more as agenda-fueled propaganda based on certain facts and numbers rather than a documentary.MAILER_DAEMON

It is quite bad. America is the only developed country in the world where people go BANKRUPT paying for Health Care. I have insurance even then I had to pay for thousands upon thousands of dollars in medical bills becuase insurance doesn't covem everything.

Michael Moore is the Glenn Beck of being right.

It's simple, really. People who work hard get healthcare. A lot of Americans are against Universal Healthcare for a number of reasons. Lack of competition/innovation, and refusing to pay for Joe Schmoe's lazy butt are just a couple. Taking competition away from the equation means a lower standard, period. This is true for just about anything. For example, if there was just one video game console, by law, what incentive would they have to strive to better their games, machines, etc.? None. Another reason hinted at earlier why Americans are against it is refusing to pay for someone else. A decent example would be a full time college student having to work his way through school. How is it fair for that student to go to school and work everyday and work his butt off, just to have a chunk of his funds removed so a lazy person who doesn't work can take advantage of a system?

I was raised in a way that didn't make me feel entitled to anything. You have to work for what you get. Everyone is entitled to their opinion though, and our system is by NO MEANS perfect, just like everyone elses. It's important to look at things from multiple perspectives. Conservatives (and America, really) get bashed on here to no end, but taking Michael Moore's word without question is just moronic. His views are as Left as you can get.

I can't stand the sort of documentaries that Moore makes, so I never watched it.

It's simple, really. People who work hard get healthcare. A lot of Americans are against Universal Healthcare for a number of reasons. Lack of competition/innovation, and refusing to pay for Joe Schmoe's lazy butt are just a couple. Taking competition away from the equation means a lower standard, period. This is true for just about anything. For example, if there was just one video game console, by law, what incentive would they have to strive to better their games, machines, etc.? None. Another reason hinted at earlier why Americans are against it is refusing to pay for someone else. A decent example would be a full time college student having to work his way through school. How is it fair for that student to go to school and work everyday and work his butt off, just to have a chunk of his funds removed so a lazy person who doesn't work can take advantage of a system?

I was raised in a way that didn't make me feel entitled to anything. You have to work for what you get. Everyone is entitled to their opinion though, and our system is by NO MEANS perfect, just like everyone elses. It's important to look at things from multiple perspectives. Conservatives (and America, really) get bashed on here to no end, but taking Michael Moore's word without question is just moronic. His views are as Left as you can get.

KSU-Wildcat

Some people work hard and don't get healthcare.

It's worse. Imagine the settlement in Mad Max. It's about 5 times worse than that.FragStains

... How dare you insult Barter Town!

Micheal moore is a lightweight version of Alex jones.

It's simple, really. People who work hard get healthcare. A lot of Americans are against Universal Healthcare for a number of reasons. Lack of competition/innovation, and refusing to pay for Joe Schmoe's lazy butt are just a couple. Taking competition away from the equation means a lower standard, period. This is true for just about anything. For example, if there was just one video game console, by law, what incentive would they have to strive to better their games, machines, etc.? None. Another reason hinted at earlier why Americans are against it is refusing to pay for someone else. A decent example would be a full time college student having to work his way through school. How is it fair for that student to go to school and work everyday and work his butt off, just to have a chunk of his funds removed so a lazy person who doesn't work can take advantage of a system?

I was raised in a way that didn't make me feel entitled to anything. You have to work for what you get. Everyone is entitled to their opinion though, and our system is by NO MEANS perfect, just like everyone elses. It's important to look at things from multiple perspectives. Conservatives (and America, really) get bashed on here to no end, but taking Michael Moore's word without question is just moronic. His views are as Left as you can get.

KSU-Wildcat

You also forgot universal healthcare would cover youtube idiots too. :P

Should my money go to paying to get skin back on a person that slid on a slip n slide full of burning gasoline to go viral video.

You also forgot universal healthcare would cover youtube idiots too. :P

Should my money go to paying to get skin back on a person that slid on a slip n slide full of burning gasoline to go viral video.

dercoo

You also forgot universal healthcare would cover youtube idiots too. :P

Should my money go to paying to get skin back on a person that slid on a slip n slide full of burning gasoline to go viral video.

It's simple, really. People who work hard get healthcare. A lot of Americans are against Universal Healthcare for a number of reasons. Lack of competition/innovation, and refusing to pay for Joe Schmoe's lazy butt are just a couple. Taking competition away from the equation means a lower standard, period. This is true for just about anything. For example, if there was just one video game console, by law, what incentive would they have to strive to better their games, machines, etc.? None. Another reason hinted at earlier why Americans are against it is refusing to pay for someone else. A decent example would be a full time college student having to work his way through school. How is it fair for that student to go to school and work everyday and work his butt off, just to have a chunk of his funds removed so a lazy person who doesn't work can take advantage of a system?

I was raised in a way that didn't make me feel entitled to anything. You have to work for what you get. Everyone is entitled to their opinion though, and our system is by NO MEANS perfect, just like everyone elses. It's important to look at things from multiple perspectives. Conservatives (and America, really) get bashed on here to no end, but taking Michael Moore's word without question is just moronic. His views are as Left as you can get.

KSU-Wildcat

Many jobs don't provide health coverage. Do you believe that we should have a system where people have to compete for jobs that give them access to health care? As in, no matter what, some people won't have covereage no matter how hard they try, because it's a competitive system?

I personally know recent college grads who have no coverage because their jobs do not provide it. There just aren't enough good jobs to go around right now. Should these people just go find a hole to bury themselves in?

[QUOTE="KSU-Wildcat"]

It's simple, really. People who work hard get healthcare. A lot of Americans are against Universal Healthcare for a number of reasons. Lack of competition/innovation, and refusing to pay for Joe Schmoe's lazy butt are just a couple. Taking competition away from the equation means a lower standard, period. This is true for just about anything. For example, if there was just one video game console, by law, what incentive would they have to strive to better their games, machines, etc.? None. Another reason hinted at earlier why Americans are against it is refusing to pay for someone else. A decent example would be a full time college student having to work his way through school. How is it fair for that student to go to school and work everyday and work his butt off, just to have a chunk of his funds removed so a lazy person who doesn't work can take advantage of a system?

I was raised in a way that didn't make me feel entitled to anything. You have to work for what you get. Everyone is entitled to their opinion though, and our system is by NO MEANS perfect, just like everyone elses. It's important to look at things from multiple perspectives. Conservatives (and America, really) get bashed on here to no end, but taking Michael Moore's word without question is just moronic. His views are as Left as you can get.

superfluidity

Many jobs don't provide health coverage. Do you believe that we should have a system where people have to compete for jobs that give them access to health care? As in, no matter what, some people won't have covereage no matter how hard they try, because it's a competitive system?

I personally know recent college grads who have no coverage because their jobs do not provide it. There just aren't enough good jobs to go around right now. Should these people just go find a hole to bury themselves in?

Of course many jobs don't offer healthcare benefits and, being a senior, I know many recent grads in the same boat. You must have missed the part where I said that our system is by "NO MEANS perfect [emphasis already in the quote]." Sort of like the whole, "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others," type of thing. There is so much work to be done. At the same time, people travel to the United States every year to get the healthcare they need but couldn't get in their own country, due to waitlists or a number of other variables. I could just as easily say that is just as big a fault. Should people who need "x" sit around for months waiting for it, and then eventually MAYBE get it in lesser way than what might have been improved by the benfits of competition? Again... all of these systems are far from perfect.

Also, am I the only one who realized the massive irony of an obese man making a documentary on how to be healthy?

Edit: Hemaroids beat me ^^^

Also, am I the only one who realized the massive irony of an obese man making a documentary on how to be healthy?

Edit: Hemaroids beat me ^^^

Play Fallout 3 or Fallout: New Vegas. That's basically what America is like.

Also when someone loses a limb or gets sick we give them stimpaks for a healthy fee of Coca-Cola bottlecaps.

EDIT: "There's no agenda there, just facts." Yeah, look where that thinking got us. Just accept that it's there - then choose to agree or disagree with it. The most important step is accepting it. If you can't recognize opinions, bias, or personal agendas inside of speeches, arguments, news, etc. then you probably shouldn't be voting to begin with. No better than the people who idolize Beck... /minirant

inb4 many Oters saying watching Michael Moore documentaries are like watching Cannibal Holocaust as a documentary... it seems I'm too late.

[QUOTE="MAILER_DAEMON"]

It's a Michael Moore movie, take it more as agenda-fueled propaganda based on certain facts and numbers rather than a documentary.

TheArGaia

I don't think that propaganda is required to be false.

Every country has it's flaws. I really hate how everyone wants to put America down. This country offers more benefits than most countries. Obviously we are flawed but overall the US is pretty damn good (we have the best burgers) loll

this guy fills in what moore left out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6ZH1ps20WA

While our healthcare system isn't perfect, it's far better than that movie describes.

What's really killing us is the government constantly bending it's will to the insurance agencies.

Much of the health care issue in my eyes is not how it's deployed but why are we so sick and dependent on it. The average American eats very badly and too much, getting very little real exercise, so it's no wonder we are in such a decrepit state of health. We take drugs to remedy the issue which probably just makes it worse, or keeps us sick, much like the food we buy most often is just pure junk, made to keep us addicted. There is a reason why so many people call health care "sick care" because it's not fixing anything, it just keeps us at a nominal state of perpetual illness that isn't so much that it can keep us from working, but it's enough for us to continually search for cures or remedies. I seriously believe that. The pharmaceutical companies are not out there to treat your illness completely.

I'm completely floored that anyone would take Moore seriously in 2011. Gotta love a documentary maker who, when caught in a lie then passes himself off as a satarist. Then again, Moore fabricated his past in order to authenticate his phony blue collar creds so that pretty much tells you all you need to know about him.