If money can not buy happiness? Why do the rich hoard their wealth?

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Victalis

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#1 Victalis
Member since 2012 • 105 Posts

Seriously millions of dollars? If it can not buy happiness donate money to charity.

Tax the rich higher imo.

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tenaka2

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#2 tenaka2
Member since 2004 • 17958 Posts

If money can not buy happiness? Why do the rich hoard their wealth?

Victalis

They hoard their money because they cannot buy happiness with it.

you answered your own question in the thread starter, impressive.

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deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51

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#3 deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51
Member since 2004 • 57548 Posts

[QUOTE="Victalis"]

If money can not buy happiness? Why do the rich hoard their wealth?

tenaka2

They hoard their money because they cannot buy happiness with it.

you answered your own question in the thread starter, impressive.

LOL, that was my answer as well.
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Victalis

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#4 Victalis
Member since 2012 • 105 Posts

[QUOTE="Victalis"]

If money can not buy happiness? Why do the rich hoard their wealth?

tenaka2

They hoard their money because they cannot buy happiness with it.

you answered your own question in the thread starter, impressive.

So they hoard money for no reason other than to be greedy ****s?

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deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51

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#5 deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51
Member since 2004 • 57548 Posts

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

[QUOTE="Victalis"]

If money can not buy happiness? Why do the rich hoard their wealth?

Victalis

They hoard their money because they cannot buy happiness with it.

you answered your own question in the thread starter, impressive.

So they hoard money for no reason other than to be greedy ****s?

Maybe they are just frugal. Instead of running out and spending all their money on themselves, they save up for that rainy day.
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Ilovegames1992

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#6 Ilovegames1992
Member since 2010 • 14221 Posts

Money does buy you happiness.

Unfortunately, most people who acquire wealth are just insanely greedy. Its human nature.

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Victalis

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#7 Victalis
Member since 2012 • 105 Posts

[QUOTE="Victalis"]

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

They hoard their money because they cannot buy happiness with it.

you answered your own question in the thread starter, impressive.

sonicare

So they hoard money for no reason other than to be greedy ****s?

Maybe they are just frugal. Instead of running out and spending all their money on themselves, they save up for that rainy day.

Lol? Billions/Millions of dollars?

If so why live in mansions?

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tenaka2

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#8 tenaka2
Member since 2004 • 17958 Posts

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

[QUOTE="Victalis"]

If money can not buy happiness? Why do the rich hoard their wealth?

Victalis

They hoard their money because they cannot buy happiness with it.

you answered your own question in the thread starter, impressive.

So they hoard money for no reason other than to be greedy ****s?

But they do spend there money, who pays the servants? Who pays for the fancy cars? The islands etc.

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deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51

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#9 deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51
Member since 2004 • 57548 Posts

[QUOTE="sonicare"][QUOTE="Victalis"]

So they hoard money for no reason other than to be greedy ****s?

Victalis

Maybe they are just frugal. Instead of running out and spending all their money on themselves, they save up for that rainy day.

Lol? Billions/Millions of dollars?

If so why live in mansions?

Those mansions help the economy. Think of all the labour that goes into building and maintaining them. How many people had employment because of that? Housing industry employs a lot of people.
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PC360Wii

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#10 PC360Wii
Member since 2007 • 4658 Posts
Don't buy this crap about it not buying hapiness. Money = Power, the more you have the more powerful you are. do we really need one of these "WAAAAAA I'm not rich so I have to justify it by claiming money doesnt bring hapiness or self worth" ...
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Jackc8

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#11 Jackc8
Member since 2007 • 8515 Posts

Sounds like something you should ask your mom about.

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vfibsux

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#13 vfibsux
Member since 2003 • 4497 Posts

Seriously millions of dollars? If it can not buy happiness donate money to charity.

Tax the rich higher imo.

Victalis
Because they earned it and it is theirs? Why don't you go out and get yourself rich if you care so much? Then you can give all your money away at your heart's content. Either way, America gives 300 billion a year to charities, who are you to say they aren't giving it away?
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Victalis

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#14 Victalis
Member since 2012 • 105 Posts

Don't buy this crap about it not buying hapiness. Money = Power, the more you have the more powerful you are. do we really need one of these "WAAAAAA I'm not rich so I have to justify it by claiming money doesnt bring hapiness or self worth" ...PC360Wii

Exactly, I am not but I do not put wool over my own eyes.

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Victalis

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#16 Victalis
Member since 2012 • 105 Posts

[QUOTE="PC360Wii"]Don't buy this crap about it not buying hapiness. Money = Power, the more you have the more powerful you are. do we really need one of these "WAAAAAA I'm not rich so I have to justify it by claiming money doesnt bring hapiness or self worth" ...Ackad
I agree with this. "Money won't buy you happiness" would have been accurate back in the 80's/90's. When the economy is turning against the middle and poor, it's destroying families due to the lack of money. High taxes, gas prices, and prices going up in general, people really are killing each other (figuratively speaking).

Exactly the wealth gap is insane now and the rich pump money into lobbying on their behalf.

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StRaItJaCkEt36

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#17 StRaItJaCkEt36
Member since 2011 • 551 Posts

Don't buy this crap about it not buying hapiness. Money = Power, the more you have the more powerful you are. do we really need one of these "WAAAAAA I'm not rich so I have to justify it by claiming money doesnt bring hapiness or self worth" ...PC360Wii
if something is important to you it's hard to imagine it not being important to somebody else. It's simply not reality, however. There are many people who are happy without massive amounts of money there are also many people who are unhappy in the same scenario. It really all depends on the person and what they priotize in life.

It's really not so hard for me to believe people when they tell me money isn't important to them in defining their happieness.

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Wasdie

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#18 Wasdie  Moderator
Member since 2003 • 53622 Posts

They don't hoard their wealth. Most of the rich's wealth is in investements, not in liquid assets.

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rastotm

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#19 rastotm
Member since 2011 • 1380 Posts

Happiness is gained by working towards a goal and achieving it. For example, saving money for a year and buying a new car.
Sadly the rich posses so much wealth that there are hardly any products that require saving money, resulting in hardly any enjoyment when they buy the the product.
In addition, humans naturally compare themselves to their close environment, if a rich person lives in a neighbourhood that is more wealthy then him on average, then he won't consider himself as wealthy.
In any case, having huge wealth is often a endless loop which ends in little happiness. Money doesn't buy happiness unless the person doesn't have enough money for basic living costs.

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Planet_Pluto

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#22 Planet_Pluto
Member since 2011 • 2235 Posts

If money can not buy happiness, why take it from some people and redistribute it to other people?

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PC360Wii

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#23 PC360Wii
Member since 2007 • 4658 Posts

[QUOTE="PC360Wii"]Don't buy this crap about it not buying hapiness. Money = Power, the more you have the more powerful you are. do we really need one of these "WAAAAAA I'm not rich so I have to justify it by claiming money doesnt bring hapiness or self worth" ...StRaItJaCkEt36

if something is important to you it's hard to imagine it not being important to somebody else. It's simply not reality, however. There are many people who are happy without massive amounts of money there are also many people who are unhappy in the same scenario. It really all depends on the person and what they priotize in life.

It's really not so hard for me to believe people when they tell me money isn't important to them in defining their happieness.

This was kind of my point, but the vast majority are just trying to put rich people down out of jealousy..... all it does is provide security and luxiries ... security being very important in many ways. Its true most of us are happy without wealth .... but it always helps, what annoys me is what i've said above.... dellusional ways of trying to put rich people down.
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Charazani

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#24 Charazani
Member since 2011 • 2919 Posts
Lol
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surrealnumber5

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#25 surrealnumber5
Member since 2008 • 23044 Posts
cash is one of many forms of capital, capital at some point is intended to create, creating goods provides goods. if the good is created at a rate the market will bear it will be consumed. the market is then better off than it was before your product. this is why the standards of living increase under a capitalistic system. conversely the destruction of capital leads to bankruptcy and a lowering of the standards of living. theft is not a solid model for a civilization. and tax is not charity
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StRaItJaCkEt36

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#26 StRaItJaCkEt36
Member since 2011 • 551 Posts
[QUOTE="StRaItJaCkEt36"]

[QUOTE="PC360Wii"]Don't buy this crap about it not buying hapiness. Money = Power, the more you have the more powerful you are. do we really need one of these "WAAAAAA I'm not rich so I have to justify it by claiming money doesnt bring hapiness or self worth" ...PC360Wii

if something is important to you it's hard to imagine it not being important to somebody else. It's simply not reality, however. There are many people who are happy without massive amounts of money there are also many people who are unhappy in the same scenario. It really all depends on the person and what they priotize in life.

It's really not so hard for me to believe people when they tell me money isn't important to them in defining their happieness.

This was kind of my point, but the vast majority are just trying to put rich people down out of jealousy..... all it does is provide security and luxiries ... security being very important in many ways. Its true most of us are happy without wealth .... but it always helps, what annoys me is what i've said above.... dellusional ways of trying to put rich people down.

Money does have it's usefulness. I can't really comment on whether or not people who say money doesn't buy happiness though are saying it out of jealousy. Maybe, they're saying it because it's an ideal they wish to live by, helping themselves keep things in perspective. Money may make life easier for somebody, which could lead to increased happiness, but this only occurs to a certain point. Past that there is little to no difference between how happy a person can be.
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foxhound_fox

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#27 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts
Because they feel that it can, and when they don't have enough happiness, they need more and more and more money to keep their habits going.
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kuraimen

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#28 kuraimen
Member since 2010 • 28078 Posts
See this about "happiness" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgRlrBl-7Yg&feature=share
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StRaItJaCkEt36

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#29 StRaItJaCkEt36
Member since 2011 • 551 Posts

If money can not buy happiness, why take it from some people and redistribute it to other people?

Planet_Pluto

Let's assume this is really happening. Do you have any evidence that people are happier because of this? You don't seem very happy about it.

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theSteeeeels

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#30 theSteeeeels
Member since 2011 • 520 Posts
because its a saying that isnt supposed supposed to be taken literally money cannot buy you happiness. it can give you happiness. but you cant buy it. you can be unhappy and rich. basically, money may not solve all your problems.
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theSteeeeels

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#31 theSteeeeels
Member since 2011 • 520 Posts
because its a saying that isnt supposed supposed to be taken literally money cannot buy you happiness. it can give you happiness. but you cant buy it. you can be unhappy and rich. basically, money may not solve all your problems.
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Renevent42

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#32 Renevent42
Member since 2010 • 6654 Posts
I don't know about anyone else, but money has bought me happiness MANY times.
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#33 FlippyMittens
Member since 2012 • 305 Posts

I never understood how anyone could say you can be unhappy and rich with a straight face, I believe that if you are born rich you can be unhappy and rich though.

If you make it rich though you are just happy to be rich.

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theSteeeeels

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#34 theSteeeeels
Member since 2011 • 520 Posts
because its a saying that isnt supposed supposed to be taken literally money cannot buy you happiness. it can give you happiness. but you cant buy it. you can be unhappy and rich. basically, money may not solve all your problems.
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#35 Planet_Pluto
Member since 2011 • 2235 Posts

[QUOTE="Planet_Pluto"]

If money can not buy happiness, why take it from some people and redistribute it to other people?

StRaItJaCkEt36

Let's assume this is really happening. Do you have any evidence that people are happier because of this? You don't seem very happy about it.

I didn't say whether or not I felt money can buy happiness. I was following TC's premise. However, in the event that it could bring happiness, why would I be happy to work hard, and have the fruits of that labor given to someone else (with no say in the matter). I'm always willing to donate time and money to causes/organizations that I believe are doing good work. I would rather give by choice than have things taken from me and given to who-knows by who-knows.

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theSteeeeels

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#36 theSteeeeels
Member since 2011 • 520 Posts
because its a saying that isnt supposed supposed to be taken literally money cannot buy you happiness. it can give you happiness. but you cant buy it. you can be unhappy and rich. basically, money may not solve all your problems.
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StRaItJaCkEt36

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#37 StRaItJaCkEt36
Member since 2011 • 551 Posts

[QUOTE="StRaItJaCkEt36"]

[QUOTE="Planet_Pluto"]

If money can not buy happiness, why take it from some people and redistribute it to other people?

Planet_Pluto

Let's assume this is really happening. Do you have any evidence that people are happier because of this? You don't seem very happy about it.

I didn't say whether or not I felt money can buy happiness. I was following TC's premise. However, in the event that it could bring happiness, why would I be happy to work hard, and have the fruits of that labor given to someone else (with no say in the matter). I'm always willing to donate time and money to causes/organizations that I believe are doing good work. I would rather give by choice than have things taken from me and given to who-knows by who-knows.

The fruits of your labor is not only the money you acquire but what it does for you on a personal level.

As a few examples how motivation is not related to money. I spend thousands of hours a year training my body to peaks of physical perfection, not because I can acquire money from it, or put it on display, but because it satisfies many levels of my personal interests. I also enjoy doing yard work. It's hard work. The yard I take care of is large. The reward isn't that somebody is paying me. It's the pleasure I find in the activity itself as well as the admiration of the result.

Also, the job I enjoyed the most in my life, was the one that paid the least amount of money. The job was at a cemetary, and the day was spent outside, taking care of the cemetary and making sure it looked nice for the people who would come to visit the people buried their. IT was not easy work, but it was very rewarding. And definately worth being outside. I would gladly do this job for my entire life if it were made available to me again.

These are small examples. But I do believe they adequetely demonstrate that motivation is not entirely related to monetary reward alone.

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muller39

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#38 muller39
Member since 2008 • 14953 Posts

[QUOTE="Victalis"]

If money can not buy happiness? Why do the rich hoard their wealth?

tenaka2

They hoard their money because they cannot buy happiness with it.

you answered your own question in the thread starter, impressive.

Answer is no truer than this.
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Planet_Pluto

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#39 Planet_Pluto
Member since 2011 • 2235 Posts

[QUOTE="Planet_Pluto"]

[QUOTE="StRaItJaCkEt36"] Let's assume this is really happening. Do you have any evidence that people are happier because of this? You don't seem very happy about it.

StRaItJaCkEt36

I didn't say whether or not I felt money can buy happiness. I was following TC's premise. However, in the event that it could bring happiness, why would I be happy to work hard, and have the fruits of that labor given to someone else (with no say in the matter). I'm always willing to donate time and money to causes/organizations that I believe are doing good work. I would rather give by choice than have things taken from me and given to who-knows by who-knows.

The fruits of your labor is not only the money you acquire but what it does for you on a personal level. I spend thousands of hours a year training my body to peaks of physical perfection, not because I can acquire money from it, or put it on display, but because it satisfies many levels of my personal interests. I also enjoy doing yard work. It's hard work. The yard I take care of is large. The reward isn't that somebody is paying me. It's the pleasure I find in the activity itself as well as the admiration of the result. If money is the principal of your motivation in life then I feel sorry for you. A collective society that has strong social programs in place is better off than one that doesn't. It does not make people lazy. People are lazy because of their own issues.

AGAIN.... I never made the claim that money = happiness. TC made that claim, and that was what I was entertaining.

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CHOASXIII

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#40 CHOASXIII
Member since 2009 • 14716 Posts

Well it's the rich persons money and their decision if they wish to spend it or just save it forever.

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deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51

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#41 deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51
Member since 2004 • 57548 Posts
Money can buy hookers and blow. If that is not happiness, what is?
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#42 surrealnumber5
Member since 2008 • 23044 Posts
[QUOTE="Planet_Pluto"]

[QUOTE="StRaItJaCkEt36"] Let's assume this is really happening. Do you have any evidence that people are happier because of this? You don't seem very happy about it.

StRaItJaCkEt36

I didn't say whether or not I felt money can buy happiness. I was following TC's premise. However, in the event that it could bring happiness, why would I be happy to work hard, and have the fruits of that labor given to someone else (with no say in the matter). I'm always willing to donate time and money to causes/organizations that I believe are doing good work. I would rather give by choice than have things taken from me and given to who-knows by who-knows.

The fruits of your labor is not only the money you acquire but what it does for you on a personal level. I spend thousands of hours a year training my body to peaks of physical perfection, not because I can acquire money from it, or put it on display, but because it satisfies many levels of my personal interests. I also enjoy doing yard work. It's hard work. The yard I take care of is large. The reward isn't that somebody is paying me. It's the pleasure I find in the activity itself as well as the admiration of the result. If money is the principal of your motivation in life then I feel sorry for you. A collective society that has strong social programs in place is better off than one that doesn't. It does not make people lazy. People are lazy because of their own issues.

i do not agree with the collectivist view of society. it breeds hate, be it by race, age, sex, sexuality, how tall or short, smart or dumb, fat or thin collectivism is evil.we are all equal in law, but no two of us are the same and we should not strive for homogeneity. there is nothing attractive about your uniform goal.
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vfibsux

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#43 vfibsux
Member since 2003 • 4497 Posts

They don't hoard their wealth. Most of the rich's wealth is in investements, not in liquid assets.

Wasdie
Don't confuse simpletons with facts! The fact is any kid can come here and start spouting off what they heard their parents talking about one night while watching the news. The issue is much more complex than rich vs. poor. Like Wasdie said, rich people put their money into the economy, they drive it. Never been hired by a poor person, i can tell you that much.
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StRaItJaCkEt36

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#44 StRaItJaCkEt36
Member since 2011 • 551 Posts

[QUOTE="StRaItJaCkEt36"][QUOTE="Planet_Pluto"]I didn't say whether or not I felt money can buy happiness. I was following TC's premise. However, in the event that it could bring happiness, why would I be happy to work hard, and have the fruits of that labor given to someone else (with no say in the matter). I'm always willing to donate time and money to causes/organizations that I believe are doing good work. I would rather give by choice than have things taken from me and given to who-knows by who-knows.

Planet_Pluto

The fruits of your labor is not only the money you acquire but what it does for you on a personal level. I spend thousands of hours a year training my body to peaks of physical perfection, not because I can acquire money from it, or put it on display, but because it satisfies many levels of my personal interests. I also enjoy doing yard work. It's hard work. The yard I take care of is large. The reward isn't that somebody is paying me. It's the pleasure I find in the activity itself as well as the admiration of the result. If money is the principal of your motivation in life then I feel sorry for you. A collective society that has strong social programs in place is better off than one that doesn't. It does not make people lazy. People are lazy because of their own issues.

AGAIN.... I never made the claim that money = happiness. TC made that claim, and that was what I was entertaining.

So, if you want to entertain the idea that money = happiness, why won't you? You did not claim, but you implied, that money = happiness because it explains the government taxation as a form of wealth distribution. I understand you were most likely looking for an opportunity to take a shot at the government and the concept of wealth distribution. But by doing so you did imply that it's related to happiness, so why wont you entertain your own presumptions?
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Addict187

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#45 Addict187
Member since 2008 • 1128 Posts
I will quote Gene Simmons: it's much better to be rich and unhappy, then to be poor and unhappy
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StRaItJaCkEt36

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#46 StRaItJaCkEt36
Member since 2011 • 551 Posts

[QUOTE="StRaItJaCkEt36"][QUOTE="Planet_Pluto"]I didn't say whether or not I felt money can buy happiness. I was following TC's premise. However, in the event that it could bring happiness, why would I be happy to work hard, and have the fruits of that labor given to someone else (with no say in the matter). I'm always willing to donate time and money to causes/organizations that I believe are doing good work. I would rather give by choice than have things taken from me and given to who-knows by who-knows.

surrealnumber5

The fruits of your labor is not only the money you acquire but what it does for you on a personal level. I spend thousands of hours a year training my body to peaks of physical perfection, not because I can acquire money from it, or put it on display, but because it satisfies many levels of my personal interests. I also enjoy doing yard work. It's hard work. The yard I take care of is large. The reward isn't that somebody is paying me. It's the pleasure I find in the activity itself as well as the admiration of the result. If money is the principal of your motivation in life then I feel sorry for you. A collective society that has strong social programs in place is better off than one that doesn't. It does not make people lazy. People are lazy because of their own issues.

i do not agree with the collectivist view of society. it breeds hate, be it by race, age, sex, sexuality, how tall or short, smart or dumb, fat or thin collectivism is evil.we are all equal in law, but no two of us are the same and we should not strive for homogeneity. there is nothing attractive about your uniform goal.

We probably have two different ideas of collectivism.

Do you have any evidence that humans have ever functioned without a collective society? Can you show me examples of human populations that don't have communal systems that they rely on?

Resenment is not a result of collectivism. IT's a result of one person having something somebody else wants.

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RushKing

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#47 RushKing
Member since 2009 • 1785 Posts

[QUOTE="StRaItJaCkEt36"][QUOTE="Planet_Pluto"]I didn't say whether or not I felt money can buy happiness. I was following TC's premise. However, in the event that it could bring happiness, why would I be happy to work hard, and have the fruits of that labor given to someone else (with no say in the matter). I'm always willing to donate time and money to causes/organizations that I believe are doing good work. I would rather give by choice than have things taken from me and given to who-knows by who-knows.

surrealnumber5

The fruits of your labor is not only the money you acquire but what it does for you on a personal level. I spend thousands of hours a year training my body to peaks of physical perfection, not because I can acquire money from it, or put it on display, but because it satisfies many levels of my personal interests. I also enjoy doing yard work. It's hard work. The yard I take care of is large. The reward isn't that somebody is paying me. It's the pleasure I find in the activity itself as well as the admiration of the result. If money is the principal of your motivation in life then I feel sorry for you. A collective society that has strong social programs in place is better off than one that doesn't. It does not make people lazy. People are lazy because of their own issues.

i do not agree with the collectivist view of society. it breeds hate, be it by race, age, sex, sexuality, how tall or short, smart or dumb, fat or thin collectivism is evil.we are all equal in law, but no two of us are the same and we should not strive for homogeneity. there is nothing attractive about your uniform goal.

Many forms of collectivism are bad, but not all. Wanting everyone to have healthcare isn't evil. Capitalism promotes classism; which is collectivistic.

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surrealnumber5

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#48 surrealnumber5
Member since 2008 • 23044 Posts

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"][QUOTE="StRaItJaCkEt36"] The fruits of your labor is not only the money you acquire but what it does for you on a personal level. I spend thousands of hours a year training my body to peaks of physical perfection, not because I can acquire money from it, or put it on display, but because it satisfies many levels of my personal interests. I also enjoy doing yard work. It's hard work. The yard I take care of is large. The reward isn't that somebody is paying me. It's the pleasure I find in the activity itself as well as the admiration of the result. If money is the principal of your motivation in life then I feel sorry for you. A collective society that has strong social programs in place is better off than one that doesn't. It does not make people lazy. People are lazy because of their own issues.StRaItJaCkEt36

i do not agree with the collectivist view of society. it breeds hate, be it by race, age, sex, sexuality, how tall or short, smart or dumb, fat or thin collectivism is evil.we are all equal in law, but no two of us are the same and we should not strive for homogeneity. there is nothing attractive about your uniform goal.

We probably have two different ideas of collectivism.

Do you have any evidence that humans have ever functioned without a collective society? Can you show me examples of human populations that don't have communal systems that they rely on?

Resenment is not a result of collectivism. IT's a result of one person having something somebody else wants.

how am i going to use collectivist view to point out a lack of collectivism? most modern libertarians are not collectivists, they are individualists, it does not matter if they are on the right or left of on the political spectrum, as long as they are well within the free range on the free v. state chart. when you group people by a single characteristic and judge, you have a collectivist mindset and it is inherently hate based. hell, look at how you talk about those who have more than you, as if they were one person who needs to be punished.
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#49 surrealnumber5
Member since 2008 • 23044 Posts

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"][QUOTE="StRaItJaCkEt36"] The fruits of your labor is not only the money you acquire but what it does for you on a personal level. I spend thousands of hours a year training my body to peaks of physical perfection, not because I can acquire money from it, or put it on display, but because it satisfies many levels of my personal interests. I also enjoy doing yard work. It's hard work. The yard I take care of is large. The reward isn't that somebody is paying me. It's the pleasure I find in the activity itself as well as the admiration of the result. If money is the principal of your motivation in life then I feel sorry for you. A collective society that has strong social programs in place is better off than one that doesn't. It does not make people lazy. People are lazy because of their own issues.RushKing

i do not agree with the collectivist view of society. it breeds hate, be it by race, age, sex, sexuality, how tall or short, smart or dumb, fat or thin collectivism is evil.we are all equal in law, but no two of us are the same and we should not strive for homogeneity. there is nothing attractive about your uniform goal.

Many forms of collectivism are bad, but not all. Wanting everyone to have healthcare isn't evil. Capitalism promotes classism; which is collectivistic.

ends and means, if the means are evil so are the ends even if the ends are superficially noble.
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#50 RushKing
Member since 2009 • 1785 Posts

[QUOTE="RushKing"]

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] i do not agree with the collectivist view of society. it breeds hate, be it by race, age, sex, sexuality, how tall or short, smart or dumb, fat or thin collectivism is evil.we are all equal in law, but no two of us are the same and we should not strive for homogeneity. there is nothing attractive about your uniform goal.surrealnumber5

Many forms of collectivism are bad, but not all. Wanting everyone to have healthcare isn't evil. Capitalism promotes classism; which is collectivistic.

ends and means, if the means are evil so are the ends even if the ends are superficially noble.

What means are evil are completely subjective.