If you in the military and a higher rank tells you to kill the something.. Read!

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Makemap

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#1 Makemap
Member since 2007 • 3755 Posts

If you in the military and the a higher rank tells you to kill the something for no reason, would you do it?

I would say "no" and "ask him why?" If he does goes against me, I would go against him period.

:roll:

1. He could be lieing.

2. He just wants to conquer and use you.

3. It's not cool at all.

4. He could be an enemy (Just like Die Hard, the part where the military guy got back stabbed)..

5. He just wants to destroy everything (I mean completely everything and even back stab you).

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Dark__Link

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#2 Dark__Link
Member since 2003 • 32653 Posts
That's nice..
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Makemap

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#3 Makemap
Member since 2007 • 3755 Posts

That's nice..Dark__Link

well would u?

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MetaKnight50

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#4 MetaKnight50
Member since 2008 • 3533 Posts
Depends, ill keep saying no until he gives me a promotion.
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Baffels18

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#5 Baffels18
Member since 2008 • 573 Posts
I think you can follow orders to a certain extent but when superiors make unjust or morally wrong orders, well I think that's when you should start questioning there authority and refuse them even if you might get court marshaled.
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foxhound_fox

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#6 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts
I'd take the court marshal for insubordination. No matter how much anyone can respect a military hierarchy, they should put their own morality above it and never violate it.
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LikeHaterade

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#7 LikeHaterade
Member since 2007 • 10645 Posts

I'd take the court marshal for insubordination. No matter how much anyone can respect a military hierarchy, they should put their own morality above it and never violate it.foxhound_fox

My problem with the military is that they have a way of breaking you down so you don't do that, which is why I'd never join the military.

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BumFluff122

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#8 BumFluff122
Member since 2004 • 14853 Posts
I'd say no then I'd tell his superiors.
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MetroidPrimePwn

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#9 MetroidPrimePwn
Member since 2007 • 12399 Posts

If he can't supply me with a reason or official orders, then he's clearly not acting officially, and should be court marshalled for insubordination.

So, no.

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oh_god_ya

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#10 oh_god_ya
Member since 2009 • 85 Posts
I watched Doom again on TV today, and when the rock orders that guy to kill all those women and children in that room and the guy refuses a few times, the rock kills him and says something about not following orders is punishable by death. Granted it was Doom were talking about, so I doubt that's true, but it was interesting.
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miklifton

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#11 miklifton
Member since 2004 • 6513 Posts
depends on what it is they want me to kill
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foxhound_fox

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#12 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts
My problem with the military is that they have a way of breaking you down so you don't do that, which is why I'd never join the military.LikeHaterade

Very true. But then again, I highly doubt the process for brainwashing new recruits is the same for those who apply through an officer program.
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makiveli100

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#13 makiveli100
Member since 2008 • 507 Posts
Say no.
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mindstorm

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#14 mindstorm
Member since 2003 • 15255 Posts

Simply put, I seek to live by Romans 13:1-7. Basically, I will submit to my authorities unless I feel it is against what God would have me to do (I will not deny Christ for the sake of obeying authorities for example).

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Gamer4Iife

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#15 Gamer4Iife
Member since 2008 • 6010 Posts
Define 'the something'. :P I have no problems killing POWs, but I would never harm innocent civilians.
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deactivated-5e0e425ee91d8

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#16 deactivated-5e0e425ee91d8
Member since 2007 • 22399 Posts
in a military system, thats called a questionable order and you don't nessessarily have to follow it if he can't give you a damn good reason. i'm a petty officer in Sea Cadets and i can give orders to say, take out the trash...but if i told them to repeatedly slam a door on there foot, they woulden't have to do it and would probably tell one of my superiours
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SatanAntichrist

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#17 SatanAntichrist
Member since 2009 • 355 Posts
i think for myself. i'm not a sheep.
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FalcoLX

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#18 FalcoLX
Member since 2007 • 4452 Posts
What the hell are you smoking, Makemap?
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#19 BobbyTurkalino
Member since 2003 • 31463 Posts
Would I? I'd probably fake a seizure instead.
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gobo212

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#20 gobo212
Member since 2003 • 6277 Posts
When you VOLUNTEER for the military I don't give a crap if your moral code doesn't match the military's. You joined so deal with it.
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#21 fidosim
Member since 2003 • 12901 Posts
If there was really no reason for him to order me to kill something aside from his own sadism, then he would probably be the one to get in trouble for making the order. So I would probably refuse unless he had a legitimate reason to make the order.
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#22 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts
When you VOLUNTEER for the military I don't give a crap if your moral code doesn't match the military's. You joined so deal with it.gobo212

To give up your morality is to give up your humanity. You cease to be human if you go against your entire being to fulfill an order.
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DarkPrinceXC

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#23 DarkPrinceXC
Member since 2003 • 5921 Posts

If you in the military and the a higher rank tells you to kill the something for no reason, would you do it?

I would say "no" and "ask him why?" If he does goes against me, I would go against him period.

:roll:

1. He could be lieing.

2. He just wants to conquer and use you.

3. It's not cool at all.

4. He could be an enemy (Just like Die Hard, the part where the military guy got back stabbed)..

5. He just wants to destroy everything (I mean completely everything and even back stab you).

Makemap
You don't know too much about the military, do ya?
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LikeHaterade

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#24 LikeHaterade
Member since 2007 • 10645 Posts
If you were in hostile territory and your commanding officer ordered you to shoot someone, they're probably telling you to do so because they will shoot back. However, if you're at camp and he asks you to shoot a POW for perhaps information? That's a violation of the Third Geneva Convention and you could easily say no to that. A lot of things like that happened during the Vietnam war. You should be more worried about your commanding officer telling you to advance in the middle of an open area and getting shot, as opposed to your commanding officer telling you to shoot someone. Would you advance, even if you knew it was a bad idea? Yes you would.
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gobo212

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#25 gobo212
Member since 2003 • 6277 Posts
[QUOTE="gobo212"]When you VOLUNTEER for the military I don't give a crap if your moral code doesn't match the military's. You joined so deal with it.foxhound_fox

To give up your morality is to give up your humanity. You cease to be human if you go against your entire being to fulfill an order.

First of all this thread is dumb because a superior wouldn't tell you kill "for no reason" (and if they did they would be subject to discipline, not you). That being said If you are against killing why join the military in the first place?
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lilasianwonder

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#26 lilasianwonder
Member since 2007 • 5982 Posts
Sure why not.
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#27 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts
First of all this thread is dumb because a superior wouldn't tell you kill "for no reason" (and if they did they would be subject to discipline, not you). That being said If you are against killing why join the military in the first place?gobo212

Killing someone who threatens the life of one or many innocent people is not something I am against. There is a justified killing and then there is murder. Two entirely different things. There are plenty of people out there threatening the lives of innocents, I would gladly take on the task of rooting out every single one of them and putting a bullet in their brain... but the way most first-world country's military's are setup, I would never become one with the hierarchy. The military's actions have never been noble or courageous... they have basically been political battles for territorial supremacy, shifting the brainless pawns around on the giant chessboard of the Earth for the selfish goals of a select few. If there was a UN international military that went around the world crushing despots and extremest regimes to free the innocents, I'd be all for joining up.
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gobo212

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#28 gobo212
Member since 2003 • 6277 Posts
[QUOTE="gobo212"]First of all this thread is dumb because a superior wouldn't tell you kill "for no reason" (and if they did they would be subject to discipline, not you). That being said If you are against killing why join the military in the first place?foxhound_fox

Killing someone who threatens the life of one or many innocent people is not something I am against. There is a justified killing and then there is murder. Two entirely different things. There are plenty of people out there threatening the lives of innocents, I would gladly take on the task of rooting out every single one of them and putting a bullet in their brain... but the way most first-world country's military's are setup, I would never become one with the hierarchy. The military's actions have never been noble or courageous... they have basically been political battles for territorial supremacy, shifting the brainless pawns around on the giant chessboard of the Earth for the selfish goals of a select few. If there was a UN international military that went around the world crushing despots and extremest regimes to free the innocents, I'd be all for joining up.

But my point is if you are against the way the military operates you shouldn't join in the first place (in the way that you and I aren't going to join). If you join the military and then complain about having to follow orders that you should have known were coming in the first place, I have no sympathy for you.
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optiow

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#29 optiow
Member since 2008 • 28284 Posts

I think that you should follow orders from a superior unless it really is wrong.

But then again, you should obay orders to kill because that is what you are paid for, to kill.

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Dante2710

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#30 Dante2710
Member since 2005 • 63164 Posts
You could say no, and get arrested for not following orders, and if it was during war, if im not mistaken, the higher rank is allowed to shot u on the spot
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deactivated-6016e8567e48d

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#31 deactivated-6016e8567e48d
Member since 2008 • 7124 Posts
Unless it's absolutely rediculous,like kill innocent civillians, I'd do what I was told.
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BiancaDK

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#32 BiancaDK
Member since 2008 • 19092 Posts
I would not go thru with it. I dont think i could kill a person even if i was given a logical reason to do so.
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DigitalExile

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#33 DigitalExile
Member since 2008 • 16046 Posts

If you in the military and the a higher rank tells you to kill the something for no reason, would you do it?

I would say "no" and "ask him why?" If he does goes against me, I would go against him period.

:roll:

1. He could be lieing.

2. He just wants to conquer and use you.

3. It's not cool at all.

4. He could be an enemy (Just like Die Hard, the part where the military guy got back stabbed)..

5. He just wants to destroy everything (I mean completely everything and even back stab you).

Makemap


Me: No! Ask him why?
Him: I goes against you!
Me: You just want to conquer and use me.
Him: It's not cool at all.
Together: Enemy let's destory everything!

At this point he'd pull out his "knife" and "stab" me and I'd "Scream" in "pain."

Why should I make sense when the TC didn't?

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OODALOOP

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#35 OODALOOP
Member since 2004 • 36350 Posts

If you in the military and the a higher rank tells you to kill the something for no reason, would you do it?

I would say "no" and "ask him why?" If he does goes against me, I would go against him period.

:roll:

1. He could be lieing.

2. He just wants to conquer and use you.

3. It's not cool at all.

4. He could be an enemy (Just like Die Hard, the part where the military guy got back stabbed)..

5. He just wants to destroy everything (I mean completely everything and even back stab you).

Makemap
You should watch fewer movies.
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deactivated-5901ac91d8e33

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#36 deactivated-5901ac91d8e33
Member since 2004 • 17092 Posts
If it was an official order...yes.
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#37 redwolf22
Member since 2008 • 1192 Posts
[QUOTE="LikeHaterade"]My problem with the military is that they have a way of breaking you down so you don't do that, which is why I'd never join the military.foxhound_fox

Very true. But then again, I highly doubt the process for brainwashing new recruits is the same for those who apply through an officer program.

Actually, that process is primeraly to do with building up the unit as a team, not blind obediance. You will always have a choice, but remember the concequences.
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OODALOOP

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#38 OODALOOP
Member since 2004 • 36350 Posts
Very true. But then again, I highly doubt the process for brainwashing new recruits is the same for those who apply through an officer program.foxhound_fox
We don't routinely conduct brainwashing in the United States military, iirc. At least, not anymore so than what goes on in any of our institutions whether they be the American school systems or the media. As for the difference between Officer programs and enlisting, the process is different, but it has nothing to do with brainwashing.
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solo-chaos

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#39 solo-chaos
Member since 2006 • 2418 Posts
what the hell I'd do it, whats the worst thing that could happen?
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#40 freshgman
Member since 2005 • 12241 Posts
what the hell I'd do it, whats the worst thing that could happen?solo-chaos
not being able to sleep or live with yourself. seeing their faces till the day you die
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kulmiye

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#41 kulmiye
Member since 2004 • 12094 Posts
I'd first ask myself on why I was in the military.
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#42 kemar7856
Member since 2004 • 11789 Posts

If you in the military and the a higher rank tells you to kill the something for no reason, would you do it?

I would say "no" and "ask him why?" If he does goes against me, I would go against him period.

:roll:

1. He could be lieing.

2. He just wants to conquer and use you.

3. It's not cool at all.

4. He could be an enemy (Just like Die Hard, the part where the military guy got back stabbed)..

5. He just wants to destroy everything (I mean completely everything and even back stab you).

Makemap
then you will be punished by the army and possibility go to jail for insubordination ha
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OODALOOP

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#43 OODALOOP
Member since 2004 • 36350 Posts
[QUOTE="kemar7856"] then you will be punished by the army and possibility go to jail for insubordination ha

You are not only not expected to carry out an unlawful order, you -- not just the superior who issued it -- are at fault for carrying it out. You are expected to know wrong from right in the military. As a member of the armed forces engaged in hostile, peacekeeping, or humanitarian operations, you must adhere to ROEs, understand and obey the international laws governing warfare, and follow the orders enumerated in the UCMJ.
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Leejjohno

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#44 Leejjohno
Member since 2005 • 13897 Posts

It depends... I may decide to ask why and carry out the order, or I might not ask why, but still carry out the order. If you are scared of harming something then you shouldn't be in the army.

Not sure about torturing. But then I have never smoked anything exotic, so it wouldn't have crossed my mind that a superior was going to make me kill a random something for the sake of world domination... somehow.

End of the day, it depends more on my rank. If I was a high rank myself, I probably would do it as long as I felt morally assured.

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-TheSecondSign-

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#45 -TheSecondSign-
Member since 2007 • 9303 Posts

That goes against Military regulation.

It is an invalid order, so your scenario is impossible.

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Makemap

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#46 Makemap
Member since 2007 • 3755 Posts

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"][QUOTE="gobo212"]When you VOLUNTEER for the military I don't give a crap if your moral code doesn't match the military's. You joined so deal with it.gobo212

To give up your morality is to give up your humanity. You cease to be human if you go against your entire being to fulfill an order.

First of all this thread is dumb because a superior wouldn't tell you kill "for no reason" (and if they did they would be subject to discipline, not you). That being said If you are against killing why join the military in the first place?

You not going against killing, but following bad orders will have consequences, say a terrorist took over like die hard, and you actually followed it. And after a while you relie you were fighting on the wrong side, what would you do?

Number 1 thing in live is to never be a robot.

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cyberdarkkid

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#47 cyberdarkkid
Member since 2007 • 16777 Posts
I would do exactly what TC would do.
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deactivated-5e7f221e304c9

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#48 deactivated-5e7f221e304c9
Member since 2004 • 14645 Posts
Nah, I only kill things on saturdays.
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clembo1990

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#49 clembo1990
Member since 2005 • 9976 Posts
I'd say "wtf I was in college just a minute ago why the hell am i in Iraq?"
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#50 AzureEm
Member since 2008 • 788 Posts

Well I guess it depends on who the higher ranking person is.

I think that in the My Lai Massacre the captain who told everyone to kill the civilians was homicidal, so if you would have refused he would have shot you.

If that's the case it boils down to: Will I sacrifice myself for these people? (Who would probably be killed anyways) Or should I follow orders and have the guilt follow me for the rest of my life?