Interesting Iranian declaration yesterday...

Seeing as I live in Vancouver, BC I expected all the news papers to be barraged with Olympic pictures and whatnot. But the National Post front page struck me more than some skiier or olympic torch did. If you dont know already, Iran has been under much scrutiny for claimed Nuclear Weapons Programs, and if not possessing Nuclear Weapons, experts speculate they are in the middle of making them.

But yesterday on the 31st anniversary of the Islamic Revolution, Iran proudly proclaimed:

"The Iranian nation is brave enough that if one day we wanted to build nuclear bombs, we would announce it" - Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

I honestly think its another crock of BS from Iran used as a stall tactic so they can finish off what they have started and scrap the program before NATO/UN/etc can find enough evidence to justify intervention. I've also read alot on the internet lately about how the acclaimed nuclear state Isreal wants to intervine (hypocrites...) and pretty much send "mini-nukes" into each suspected Nuclear Plant before the Bombs can be completed. The "mini-nuke" basically penetrates the ground, causing an underground explosion greatly reduction any nuclear fallout.

Thoughts? Comments?

You think they're scared form the U.S. to not announce their nuclear program?

Why should the U.S. and other countries have nukes while Iran shouldn't have the right to have one? Your country has been war hungry for the last century going from one war to another. You also have nuclear missiles, while Iran hasn't been in so many ground wars lately, so logically they're more peaceful.

Also saying that your war is just an act of self defense is total **** I could argue that the Afghans and Taliban are against foreigners, and they're in a self defense state at the moment.

Too bad many people view things from such a narrow way and see things the way THEY want to see it. That doesn't neccessarily mean they're right (or wrong).

I'm not Iranian, nationality shouldn't really matter though for this discussion.

You think they're scared form the U.S. to not announce their nuclear program?

Why should the U.S. and other countries have nukes while Iran shouldn't have the right to have one? Your country has been war hungry for the last century going from one war to another. You also have nuclear missiles, while Iran hasn't been in so many ground wars lately, so logically they're more peaceful.

Also saying that your war is just an act of self defense is total **** I could argue that the Afghans and Taliban are against foreigners, and they're in a self defense state at the moment.

Too bad many people view things from such a narrow way and see things the way THEY want to see it. That doesn't neccessarily mean they're right (or wrong).

I'm not Iranian, nationality shouldn't really matter though for this discussion.

LOLuMADzz

I don't see what you're getting at. Iran wants a nuclear arsenal to secure the existence of it's islamic regime,which has been in animosity with the west since the islamic revolution in 1979 (which lead to the whole debacle with the american embassy and the lynching done to US soldiers' corpses,though this isn't the main reason)grape_of_wrath

To clarify a few historical points: The Iranian Revolution did not lead immediately to the U.S. Embassy hostage-taking. Initially, the revoutionaries only wanted the Shah and the United States out of Iran. The hostage-taking was initiated after the United States froze Iranian assets in the U.S. (these assets remain frozen to this day) and after President Carter allowed the Shah to enter the United States for cancer treatment (the Shah tried unsuccessfully to obtain assylum in Europe,Central-, and South America.) Interestingly enough, the only Iranian revolutionary leader who opposed the plan to take hostages was Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the current president.

The Iranians never lynched any American soldiers' corpses. After the American HU-1 helo (huey) collided with a C-130, the planned rescue mission was aborted. The remaining Delta Force operators retrieved the dead and wounded, scuttled the avionics in the helo, and left. The Iranians retrieved the downed helo shell. it sits today in the former U.S. embassy, which is now a museum. Also, no embassy hostages were killed.

the people actually controlling Iran are a council of islamic elders who pull the strings of the 'elected' government',and hold about the same views as osama bin-laden.grape_of_wrath

Osama bin-Laden (aka the Sheik, aka the Lion) is a Sunni. His proclaimed ultimate goal is the re-establishment of a Caliphate ruled by one chosen by the Muslim people. Iran, on the other hand, is comprised of followers of the Shia sect of the Muslim faith. The Shia believe that power belongs to the Imam, descended fromthe line of Muhammad, who rules by divine authority. Specifically, President Ahmadinejad believes in the "Hidden Imam." He believes that the Imam will reveal himself at a time of great tribulation and re-establish the true Caliphate. In other words, Ahmadinejad isthe equivalent of a Christian End-timer. Some have speculated that he foments crisis in order to promulgate the time of tribulation, but this is pretty far-fetched thinking, IMO.

During the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan, the moderateIranian government of Mohammad Khatami gave quiet assistance to the United States. Although they were primarily motivatedby security concerns (having a radical Sunni government on their eastern border = not good forIran), the Khatami government also hoped for a warming in U.S-Iranian relations after decades of mistrust. Unfortunately, this did not happen, and the Khatami government was ultimately replaced by the hardline Ahmadinejad government.

[QUOTE="LOLuMADzz"]

You think they're scared form the U.S. to not announce their nuclear program?

Why should the U.S. and other countries have nukes while Iran shouldn't have the right to have one? Your country has been war hungry for the last century going from one war to another. You also have nuclear missiles, while Iran hasn't been in so many ground wars lately, so logically they're more peaceful.

Also saying that your war is just an act of self defense is total **** I could argue that the Afghans and Taliban are against foreigners, and they're in a self defense state at the moment.

Too bad many people view things from such a narrow way and see things the way THEY want to see it. That doesn't neccessarily mean they're right (or wrong).

I'm not Iranian, nationality shouldn't really matter though for this discussion.

Dark__Link

I trust them as much as I do the U.S., no more no less. I think they may spew a lot of rhetoric, but their main goal is to establish an Islamic nation as a superpower, I don't think they are serious about attacking Israel. I also don't think their having nuclear weapons would be such a problem in the long run, I think if anything it would simply make other countries take their economic concerns a little more seriously. I also don't think the U.N. would do anything abot them obtaining nuclear arms except for more economic sanctions. Lastly, I think Iran's leaders are acutely aware of MAD and I don't think they are willing to sacrifice their lives, much less their Islamic regime just to attack Israel.

[QUOTE="Dark__Link"][QUOTE="LOLuMADzz"]

You think they're scared form the U.S. to not announce their nuclear program?

Why should the U.S. and other countries have nukes while Iran shouldn't have the right to have one? Your country has been war hungry for the last century going from one war to another. You also have nuclear missiles, while Iran hasn't been in so many ground wars lately, so logically they're more peaceful.

Also saying that your war is just an act of self defense is total **** I could argue that the Afghans and Taliban are against foreigners, and they're in a self defense state at the moment.

Too bad many people view things from such a narrow way and see things the way THEY want to see it. That doesn't neccessarily mean they're right (or wrong).

I'm not Iranian, nationality shouldn't really matter though for this discussion.

theone86

I trust them as much as I do the U.S., no more no less. I think they may spew a lot of rhetoric, but their main goal is to establish an Islamic nation as a superpower, I don't think they are serious about attacking Israel. I also don't think their having nuclear weapons would be such a problem in the long run, I think if anything it would simply make other countries take their economic concerns a little more seriously. I also don't think the U.N. would do anything abot them obtaining nuclear arms except for more economic sanctions. Lastly, I think Iran's leaders are acutely aware of MAD and I don't think they are willing to sacrifice their lives, much less their Islamic regime just to attack Israel.

I honestly think its another crock of BS from Iran used as a stall tactic so they can finish off what they have started and scrap the program before NATO/UN/etc can find enough evidence to justify intervention.

Arcane-Angel

The speech was pretty much BS designed to give Ahmadinejad some cover for the currently existing secretenrichment sites that have not yet been discovered. BTW, the IAEA monitored the 20% enrichment process undertaken by the Iranians. Also, 20% enrichment is a long way from the required 90% enrichment. They need more cascading centrifuges and better engineeringto even hope to achieve 90%.

Ahmadinejad uses the nuclear program as a nationalistic rallying cry. Iranians - whether they are hardline, moderate, or reform - believe in Iran's inalienable right to persue their own nuclear program.

As long as China continues to urge patience, Iran has nothing to fear from the UN except more sanctions, which have not stopped them before. The wildcard is Israel, of course. (Until they abide by UN 242, I personally don't trust them a lick.) If Israel feels isolated enough, they may act pre-emptively, as they have done in Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, and Transjordan. I doubt that they would go nuclear; they don't have to. However, as the situation looks now, the possibility of Israel going pre-emptive is somewhat remote, IMO.

[QUOTE="Dark__Link"][QUOTE="LOLuMADzz"]

You think they're scared form the U.S. to not announce their nuclear program?

Why should the U.S. and other countries have nukes while Iran shouldn't have the right to have one? Your country has been war hungry for the last century going from one war to another. You also have nuclear missiles, while Iran hasn't been in so many ground wars lately, so logically they're more peaceful.

Also saying that your war is just an act of self defense is total **** I could argue that the Afghans and Taliban are against foreigners, and they're in a self defense state at the moment.

Too bad many people view things from such a narrow way and see things the way THEY want to see it. That doesn't neccessarily mean they're right (or wrong).

I'm not Iranian, nationality shouldn't really matter though for this discussion.

theone86

I trust them as much as I do the U.S., no more no less. I think they may spew a lot of rhetoric, but their main goal is to establish an Islamic nation as a superpower, I don't think they are serious about attacking Israel. I also don't think their having nuclear weapons would be such a problem in the long run, I think if anything it would simply make other countries take their economic concerns a little more seriously. I also don't think the U.N. would do anything abot them obtaining nuclear arms except for more economic sanctions. Lastly, I think Iran's leaders are acutely aware of MAD and I don't think they are willing to sacrifice their lives, much less their Islamic regime just to attack Israel.

I agree with this.

Plus theres that old fact that the US is the only one who has used nuclear weapons in war, and as such, to me would be the biggest threat with nukes.

You think they're scared form the U.S. to not announce their nuclear program?

Why should the U.S. and other countries have nukes while Iran shouldn't have the right to have one? Your country has been war hungry for the last century going from one war to another. You also have nuclear missiles, while Iran hasn't been in so many ground wars lately, so logically they're more peaceful.

Also saying that your war is just an act of self defense is total **** I could argue that the Afghans and Taliban are against foreigners, and they're in a self defense state at the moment.

Too bad many people view things from such a narrow way and see things the way THEY want to see it. That doesn't neccessarily mean they're right (or wrong).

I'm not Iranian, nationality shouldn't really matter though for this discussion.

LOLuMADzz

Iran doesn't need to fight directly, and it knows everyone will be ready for that. It does it much more subtly, namely through proxies (funding and arming Chechen separatists, Hamas, Hezbollah, Shia militias in Iraq, etc.).

[QUOTE="theone86"]

[QUOTE="Dark__Link"] So you'd trust Iran with nuclear weapons more than you do the US?Pixel-Pirate

I trust them as much as I do the U.S., no more no less. I think they may spew a lot of rhetoric, but their main goal is to establish an Islamic nation as a superpower, I don't think they are serious about attacking Israel. I also don't think their having nuclear weapons would be such a problem in the long run, I think if anything it would simply make other countries take their economic concerns a little more seriously. I also don't think the U.N. would do anything abot them obtaining nuclear arms except for more economic sanctions. Lastly, I think Iran's leaders are acutely aware of MAD and I don't think they are willing to sacrifice their lives, much less their Islamic regime just to attack Israel.

I agree with this.

Plus theres that old fact that the US is the only one who has used nuclear weapons in war, and as such, to me would be the biggest threat with nukes.

Oh God here we go again. Fact is the atomic bombings of Japan saved more lives than what would have occured if the US had to launch an all out invasion like Overlord. Tens of millions of japanese along with hundreds of thousands of americans would have lost their lives. The bombs ended the war and saved Japan from from complete devestation as well as preventing the Soviet Union from invading Hakkaido, which would have put that part of the nationunder communist influence just like what happened in Germany, Vietnam and Korea.

The firebombing of Tokyo itself caused more widespread destruction and death than both Atomic bombs.

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

[QUOTE="theone86"]

I trust them as much as I do the U.S., no more no less. I think they may spew a lot of rhetoric, but their main goal is to establish an Islamic nation as a superpower, I don't think they are serious about attacking Israel. I also don't think their having nuclear weapons would be such a problem in the long run, I think if anything it would simply make other countries take their economic concerns a little more seriously. I also don't think the U.N. would do anything abot them obtaining nuclear arms except for more economic sanctions. Lastly, I think Iran's leaders are acutely aware of MAD and I don't think they are willing to sacrifice their lives, much less their Islamic regime just to attack Israel.

Tangmashi

I agree with this.

Plus theres that old fact that the US is the only one who has used nuclear weapons in war, and as such, to me would be the biggest threat with nukes.

Oh God here we go again. Fact is the atomic bombings of Japan saved more lives than what would have occured if the US had to launch an all out invasion like Overlord. Tens of millions of japanese along with hundreds of thousands of americans would have lost their lives. The bombs ended the war and saved Japan from from complete devestation as well as preventing the Soviet Union from invading Hakkaido, which would have put that part of the nationunder communist influence just like what happened in Germany, Vietnam and Korea.

The firebombing of Tokyo itself caused more widespread destruction and death than both Atomic bombs.

Plus, everything in war is a gamble. There are no guarantees, and you must be mindful of the aftermath of the war. Not to mention the fact that the Soviet Union's invasion of Manchuria was probably, in hindsight, something that should have not taken place, in the eyes of the Americans. If that war dragged on for even a month longer, I think the map and scene of East Asia could have been significantly different today.

iran has continuely said they are NOT making nukes, now why is the west still freaked out? i mean they keep *****ing about the same thing everyday like "zomg iran be makin nukez secretly we know itzzzz yes we doooooo know they making da bombz....israel in dangerzz NOOOO1!111!!" i mean seriously just shut up already

iran has continuely said they are NOT making nukes, now why is the west still freaked out? i mean they keep *****ing about the same thing everyday like "zomg iran be makin nukez secretly we know itzzzz yes we doooooo know they making da bombz....israel in dangerzz NOOOO1!111!!" i mean seriously just shut up already

sikanderahmed

[QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]

iran has continuely said they are NOT making nukes, now why is the west still freaked out? i mean they keep *****ing about the same thing everyday like "zomg iran be makin nukez secretly we know itzzzz yes we doooooo know they making da bombz....israel in dangerzz NOOOO1!111!!" i mean seriously just shut up already

GazaAli

Isn't what they say the best form of propaganda has at least some truth to it? And what do you really imply when you say "the U.S. and its allies are cooking something"?

[QUOTE="GazaAli"][QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]

iran has continuely said they are NOT making nukes, now why is the west still freaked out? i mean they keep *****ing about the same thing everyday like "zomg iran be makin nukez secretly we know itzzzz yes we doooooo know they making da bombz....israel in dangerzz NOOOO1!111!!" i mean seriously just shut up already

jetpower3

Isn't what they say the best form of propaganda has at least some truth to it? And what do you really imply when you say "the U.S. and its allies are cooking something"?

[QUOTE="jetpower3"]

[QUOTE="GazaAli"] This is called Propaganda. The US and its allies are cooking something, they are just buying some time, thats all. GazaAli

Isn't what they say the best form of propaganda has at least some truth to it? And what do you really imply when you say "the U.S. and its allies are cooking something"?

I don't see how blowing up Iran will accomplish anything, other than create infinitely more problems. I think the U.S. has learned that from Iraq. Plus, in order to pass on propaganda to people, you will need to have at least some elements of truth to it. There's a difference between propaganda and straight up fear mongering garbage.

[QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]

iran has continuely said they are NOT making nukes, now why is the west still freaked out? i mean they keep *****ing about the same thing everyday like "zomg iran be makin nukez secretly we know itzzzz yes we doooooo know they making da bombz....israel in dangerzz NOOOO1!111!!" i mean seriously just shut up already

GazaAli

sogni_belli

Seeing as I live in Vancouver, BC

Arcane-Angel

Hm... *looks below*

Your country has been war hungry for the last century going from one war to another.

Also saying that your war is just an act of self defense

LOLuMADzz

Methinks you're too eager to bash the US.

[QUOTE="GazaAli"][QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]

iran has continuely said they are NOT making nukes, now why is the west still freaked out? i mean they keep *****ing about the same thing everyday like "zomg iran be makin nukez secretly we know itzzzz yes we doooooo know they making da bombz....israel in dangerzz NOOOO1!111!!" i mean seriously just shut up already

VaguelyTagged

[QUOTE="GazaAli"][QUOTE="jetpower3"]

Isn't what they say the best form of propaganda has at least some truth to it? And what do you really imply when you say "the U.S. and its allies are cooking something"?

jetpower3

I don't see how blowing up Iran will accomplish anything, other than create infinitely more problems. I think the U.S. has learned that from Iraq. Plus, in order to pass on propaganda to people, you will need to have at least some elements of truth to it. There's a difference between propaganda and straight up fear mongering garbage.

iran has continuely said they are NOT making nukes, now why is the west still freaked out? i mean they keep *****ing about the same thing everyday like "zomg iran be makin nukez secretly we know itzzzz yes we doooooo know they making da bombz....israel in dangerzz NOOOO1!111!!" i mean seriously just shut up already

sikanderahmed

[QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]

iran has continuely said they are NOT making nukes, now why is the west still freaked out? i mean they keep *****ing about the same thing everyday like "zomg iran be makin nukez secretly we know itzzzz yes we doooooo know they making da bombz....israel in dangerzz NOOOO1!111!!" i mean seriously just shut up already

Dark__Link

Hate to break it to you, but the Israeli government has been the most aggressive country in the region since the 60s.. Furthermore the whole invading Iraq thing for no legitimate reason gave the entire excuse for regimes like Iran and South Korea to developing nuclear weapons.. Bush had not only called them the "axis of evil" but has suggested that they would use tactical nukes on Iran to get their point across.. Its clear why they are making such programs, to protect the regime from countries like Israel and the United States.. Furthermore the crazies countries are not even Iran, but ones like Saudi Arabia which we are allies with.. Ironic really..

[QUOTE="LOLuMADzz"]

You think they're scared form the U.S. to not announce their nuclear program?

Why should the U.S. and other countries have nukes while Iran shouldn't have the right to have one? Your country has been war hungry for the last century going from one war to another. You also have nuclear missiles, while Iran hasn't been in so many ground wars lately, so logically they're more peaceful.

Also saying that your war is just an act of self defense is total **** I could argue that the Afghans and Taliban are against foreigners, and they're in a self defense state at the moment.

Too bad many people view things from such a narrow way and see things the way THEY want to see it. That doesn't neccessarily mean they're right (or wrong).

I'm not Iranian, nationality shouldn't really matter though for this discussion.

Dark__Link

To be honest I trust them each about the same.

[QUOTE="Dark__Link"][QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]

iran has continuely said they are NOT making nukes, now why is the west still freaked out? i mean they keep *****ing about the same thing everyday like "zomg iran be makin nukez secretly we know itzzzz yes we doooooo know they making da bombz....israel in dangerzz NOOOO1!111!!" i mean seriously just shut up already

Hate to break it to you, but the Israeli government has been the most aggressive country in the region since the 60s.. Furthermore the whole invading Iraq thing for no legitimate reason gave the entire excuse for regimes like Iran and South Korea to developing nuclear weapons.. Bush had not only called them the "axis of evil" but has suggested that they would use tactical nukes on Iran to get their point across.. Its clear why they are making such programs, to protect the regime from countries like Israel and the United States.. Furthermore the crazies countries are not even Iran, but ones like Saudi Arabia which we are allies with.. Ironic really..

[QUOTE="Dark__Link"][QUOTE="LOLuMADzz"]

You think they're scared form the U.S. to not announce their nuclear program?

Why should the U.S. and other countries have nukes while Iran shouldn't have the right to have one? Your country has been war hungry for the last century going from one war to another. You also have nuclear missiles, while Iran hasn't been in so many ground wars lately, so logically they're more peaceful.

Also saying that your war is just an act of self defense is total **** I could argue that the Afghans and Taliban are against foreigners, and they're in a self defense state at the moment.

Too bad many people view things from such a narrow way and see things the way THEY want to see it. That doesn't neccessarily mean they're right (or wrong).

I'm not Iranian, nationality shouldn't really matter though for this discussion.

htekemerald

Not to mention that the state of many countries in the world including Iran is specifically due to the United States.. Iran was a democracy during the 50's, the CIA and MI6 sure fixed that nicely in installing the dictator Shah in there.

[QUOTE="Dark__Link"][QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]

iran has continuely said they are NOT making nukes, now why is the west still freaked out? i mean they keep *****ing about the same thing everyday like "zomg iran be makin nukez secretly we know itzzzz yes we doooooo know they making da bombz....israel in dangerzz NOOOO1!111!!" i mean seriously just shut up already

sSubZerOo

Hate to break it to you, but the Israeli government has been the most aggressive country in the region sense the 60s.. Furthermore the whole invading Iraq thing for no legitimate reason gave the entire excuse for regimes like Iran and South Korea to developing nuclear weapons.. Bush had not only called them the "axis of evil" but has suggested that they would use tactical nukes on Iran to get their point across.. Its clear why they are making such programs, to protect the regime from countries like Israel and the United States.. Furthermore the crazies countries are not even Iran, but ones like Saudi Arabia which we are allies with.. Ironic really..

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="Dark__Link"] If you see your neighbor holding a bloody chainsaw with a psychotic look on his face, do you believe him when he says, "I was dicing tomatoes, I swear"?grape_of_wrath

Hate to break it to you, but the Israeli government has been the most aggressive country in the region since the 60s.. Furthermore the whole invading Iraq thing for no legitimate reason gave the entire excuse for regimes like Iran and South Korea to developing nuclear weapons.. Bush had not only called them the "axis of evil" but has suggested that they would use tactical nukes on Iran to get their point across.. Its clear why they are making such programs, to protect the regime from countries like Israel and the United States.. Furthermore the crazies countries are not even Iran, but ones like Saudi Arabia which we are allies with.. Ironic really..

Saudia Arabia we are not only arming, but the fact of the matter is they are far more extreme then anything coming close to Iran.. Iran may have a supressive government, but so do many Middle Eastern countries.. Last but not least, Iran has no concern for going to war.. They learned their lesson, fun fact duing the Iraq-Iran war, the United States and Israel actually armed Iran and Iraq.. So they could kill one another..

[QUOTE="Dark__Link"][QUOTE="LOLuMADzz"]

You think they're scared form the U.S. to not announce their nuclear program?

Why should the U.S. and other countries have nukes while Iran shouldn't have the right to have one? Your country has been war hungry for the last century going from one war to another. You also have nuclear missiles, while Iran hasn't been in so many ground wars lately, so logically they're more peaceful.

Also saying that your war is just an act of self defense is total **** I could argue that the Afghans and Taliban are against foreigners, and they're in a self defense state at the moment.

Too bad many people view things from such a narrow way and see things the way THEY want to see it. That doesn't neccessarily mean they're right (or wrong).

I'm not Iranian, nationality shouldn't really matter though for this discussion.

htekemerald

To be honest I trust them each about the same.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="Dark__Link"] If you see your neighbor holding a bloody chainsaw with a psychotic look on his face, do you believe him when he says, "I was dicing tomatoes, I swear"?Dark__Link

Hate to break it to you, but the Israeli government has been the most aggressive country in the region sense the 60s.. Furthermore the whole invading Iraq thing for no legitimate reason gave the entire excuse for regimes like Iran and South Korea to developing nuclear weapons.. Bush had not only called them the "axis of evil" but has suggested that they would use tactical nukes on Iran to get their point across.. Its clear why they are making such programs, to protect the regime from countries like Israel and the United States.. Furthermore the crazies countries are not even Iran, but ones like Saudi Arabia which we are allies with.. Ironic really..

... No more then the United States.. Or any first world power.. They only see them as a threat because countries like the United States is forced to negotiate with nuclear powers instead of using strong arm tactics which they used for decades.. Strong arm tactics the United States used in overthrowing the democracy within Iran during the 1950's.. Furthermore Iran has shown that they are not as insane as people claim, if they were they would have gone to full scale war long ago with the west with little care of the outcome.. They did not, infact they stopped all fighting after they learned just how harsh war could be with the Iraq-Iran war.. If anything nuclear weapons is specifically used for their protection, they would never use it in a act of aggression.. And if we were so concerned with nuclear weapons going missing or being used.. Why allow Israel, Pakistan, and India all aggressive countries towards their neighbors?..

[QUOTE="htekemerald"]

[QUOTE="Dark__Link"] So you'd trust Iran with nuclear weapons more than you do the US?Dark__Link

To be honest I trust them each about the same.

We had Bush threaten Iran with the possibility of a nuclear strike.. Thats far worse then anything that is imagined, unilateralism and the hegonomy of the United States has set many countries at edge... Many countries trust Iran far more then they do the United States in the region, even though they don't like Iran.. At least Iran has not tried to control their government, policies and numerous other things for decades.. To invade Iran will only drive the entire region even more against the United States.

[QUOTE="grape_of_wrath"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

Hate to break it to you, but the Israeli government has been the most aggressive country in the region since the 60s.. Furthermore the whole invading Iraq thing for no legitimate reason gave the entire excuse for regimes like Iran and South Korea to developing nuclear weapons.. Bush had not only called them the "axis of evil" but has suggested that they would use tactical nukes on Iran to get their point across.. Its clear why they are making such programs, to protect the regime from countries like Israel and the United States.. Furthermore the crazies countries are not even Iran, but ones like Saudi Arabia which we are allies with.. Ironic really..

Saudia Arabia we are not only arming, but the fact of the matter is they are far more extreme then anything coming close to Iran.. Iran may have a supressive government, but so do many Middle Eastern countries.. Last but not least, Iran has no concern for going to war.. They learned their lesson, fun fact duing the Iraq-Iran war, the United States and Israel actually armed Iran and Iraq.. So they could kill one another..

If you see your neighbor holding a bloody chainsaw with a psychotic look on his face, do you believe him when he says, "I was dicing tomatoes, I swear"?Dark__Link

But you trust a nation which has a track record of undertaking pre-emptive military actions, seizing other nations' territories, disregarding ceasefire agreements, acting in defiance of UN resolutions, and continuing to build settlements in the West Bank, in defiance of the world community? And, oh, BTW, they have nukes, too. How does a nation which has nukes and maintains a stranglehold on the political/economic development of the Gaza Strip and the West Bank get to claim that it's "in danger?"

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="grape_of_wrath"] So how is saudia arabia more dangerous tha iran?grape_of_wrath

Saudia Arabia we are not only arming, but the fact of the matter is they are far more extreme then anything coming close to Iran.. Iran may have a supressive government, but so do many Middle Eastern countries.. Last but not least, Iran has no concern for going to war.. They learned their lesson, fun fact duing the Iraq-Iran war, the United States and Israel actually armed Iran and Iraq.. So they could kill one another..

:| Yes they did.. It is a well known fact under the Contra scandel that the Reagan adminstration and Israel both illegally armed Iran and Iraq for the war.... And no women for instance are far more free in Iran then in Saudia Arabia, which they are more or less in the dark ages still.. The proxy war for instance is to a overall problem.. The Israel and palestiainian conflict.. To solve that problem, defeating Iran will not work, but forcing Israel to negotiate with the Palestiaina sides, while squelching out extremists on both sides of the conflict.. To suggest one side is a terrorist evil side and the otherside isn't is flat out ignorance to the history of the Middle East for the past 70 years..

[QUOTE="Dark__Link"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

Hate to break it to you, but the Israeli government has been the most aggressive country in the region sense the 60s.. Furthermore the whole invading Iraq thing for no legitimate reason gave the entire excuse for regimes like Iran and South Korea to developing nuclear weapons.. Bush had not only called them the "axis of evil" but has suggested that they would use tactical nukes on Iran to get their point across.. Its clear why they are making such programs, to protect the regime from countries like Israel and the United States.. Furthermore the crazies countries are not even Iran, but ones like Saudi Arabia which we are allies with.. Ironic really..

sSubZerOo

... No more then the United States.. Or any first world power.. They only see them as a threat because countries like the United States is forced to negotiate with nuclear powers instead of using strong arm tactics which they used for decades.. Strong arm tactics the United States used in overthrowing the democracy within Iran during the 1950's.. Furthermore Iran has shown that they are not as insane as people claim, if they were they would have gone to full scale war long ago with the west with little care of the outcome.. They did not, infact they stopped all fighting after they learned just how harsh war could be with the Iraq-Iran war.. If anything nuclear weapons is specifically used for their protection, they would never use it in a act of aggression.. And if we were so concerned with nuclear weapons going missing or being used.. Why allow Israel, Pakistan, and India all aggressive countries towards their neighbors?..

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="Dark__Link"] What the hell are you talking about? You can't be arguing with me, because I didn't say anything like that. :| All I said was that you'd have to have some sort of mental condition to trust Iran with nuclear weapons.Dark__Link

... No more then the United States.. Or any first world power.. They only see them as a threat because countries like the United States is forced to negotiate with nuclear powers instead of using strong arm tactics which they used for decades.. Strong arm tactics the United States used in overthrowing the democracy within Iran during the 1950's.. Furthermore Iran has shown that they are not as insane as people claim, if they were they would have gone to full scale war long ago with the west with little care of the outcome.. They did not, infact they stopped all fighting after they learned just how harsh war could be with the Iraq-Iran war.. If anything nuclear weapons is specifically used for their protection, they would never use it in a act of aggression.. And if we were so concerned with nuclear weapons going missing or being used.. Why allow Israel, Pakistan, and India all aggressive countries towards their neighbors?..

I am more along the lines of who cares if they are developing nuclear weapons.. Invading the country will only make matters worse, the Iraq war has made the United States tremendously unpopular.

[QUOTE="Dark__Link"]If you see your neighbor holding a bloody chainsaw with a psychotic look on his face, do you believe him when he says, "I was dicing tomatoes, I swear"?sogni_belli

But you trust a nation which has a track record of undertaking pre-emptive military actions, seizing other nations' territories, disregarding ceasefire agreements, acting in defiance of UN resolutions, and continuing to build settlements in the West Bank, in defiance of the world community? And, oh, BTW, they have nukes, too. How does a nation which has nukes and maintains a stranglehold on the political/economic development of the Gaza Strip and the West Bank get to claim that it's "in danger?"

[QUOTE="htekemerald"]

[QUOTE="Dark__Link"] So you'd trust Iran with nuclear weapons more than you do the US?Dark__Link

To be honest I trust them each about the same.

:| Yes they did.. It is a well known fact under the Contra scandel that the Reagan adminstration and Israel both illegally armed Iran and Iraq for the war.... And no women for instance are far more free in Iran then in Saudia Arabia, which they are more or less in the dark ages still.. The proxy war for instance is to a overall problem.. The Israel and palestiainian conflict.. To solve that problem, defeating Iran will not work, but forcing Israel to negotiate with the Palestiaina sides, while squelching out extremists on both sides of the conflict.. To suggest one side is a terrorist evil side and the otherside isn't is flat out ignorance to the history of the Middle East for the past 70 years..

sSubZerOo

And if we were so concerned with nuclear weapons going missing or being used.. Why allow Israel, Pakistan, and India all aggressive countries towards their neighbors?..

sSubZerOo

who said U.S "allows" pakistan to keep nukes? U.S. is trying pretty hard to make pakistan get rid of nukes. man if pakistan didnt have nukes today india would have eaten us alive by now.

those are both islamic theocracies one shiay and one sunni-from my knowledge shiays are ,almost always, more extreme than sunni.grape_of_wrath

Ummm, what? From a political standpoint, predominantly Shia nations have been largely "democratic" in nature. Before and after the Israeli invasion of Lebanon, it was governed by a coalition of Muslims, Christians, and Jews - elected through democratic ballot (although, until recently, largely manipulated by Syria). The 1951 Mosaddegh government in Iran was a parliamentary democracy. As the Green movement demonstrates, Iranians today value their right to an democratically elected government. Whether they believe the election was rigged or not, they, nevertheless, believe in the democratic ideal.

From a cultural standpoint, predominantly Shia nations are progressive in outlook. Lebanon has been called the French Riviera of the Middle East. It maintains a vibrant Western-oriented youth culture. The same can be said about Iranian culture to a degree. Also, Palestine exercised religious tolerance, permitting Jewish resettlement (the return from the Diaspora)long before the British administration of Palestine.

To suggest one side is a terrorist evil side and the otherside isn't is flat out ignorance to the history of the Middle East for the past 70 years..

sSubZerOo

+1

Iran is in a unstopple state rite now. Any offensive tactics used agianst Iran would not be with out serious consequence. If Israel bombs iran, the anti-government riots will end. all the ppl will support the government. then saudi arabia`s oil fields will be bombed by iran which means sky marketing oil price. also america is in no place to go against the mite of Iran rite now. if america interferes then troops in afhanistan and iraq will not have a fun day. terrorists will build their numbers in lebenon, palistine, iraq, afgahnistan. russia will back up iran. north korea will do some wild *** just for the heck of it. all hell will break loose. next thing you know, WWIII....Oil is black gold these days. And the strongest country in the middle east (Iran) will hold the world at hostage.

Only ONE solution can avoid this situation. The world needs to supply the anti-government movement with arms. only they can change things. iran needs someone like che guevera to lead them.

thats the prophecy.

[QUOTE="grape_of_wrath"]

You still haven't explained how Shia are more extreme than Sunni. From what standpoint and what is the basis of comparison? It's a pretty bold claim.

Also, it's one thing to simplify a concept or an issue. It's another thing entirely to interject false claims and inflamatory remarks (Iranians lynching American soldiers' corpses).

[QUOTE="Dark__Link"]

[QUOTE="htekemerald"] Funny question seeing as america is the only country ever to use nuclear bombs, and on civilians to.

To be honest I trust them each about the same.

htekemerald

I don't know about you, but I don't trust a nation who actively supports proxy conflicts all over the region to this day. Imagine if Iran covertly provided some nuclear weapon to one of them, to be used against their foes.