Is it inherently wrong to intoxicate oneself/alter one's consciousness?

I don't mean for this to be a legalization of pot/drugs topic. I'd just like to throw out the question of whether intoxicating yourself, or altering ones consciousness via substances (or the desire to) is bad in itself, and if it's a part of human nature?

I get the arguments as to why it can be bad. Bad for your health, might cause harm to yourself/others/property while you're high. But setting those aside, what about the act itself of changing your consciousness? I feel like people still frown upon it. Should they? I know lots of people who on their own free time indulge and such activities (whether that's alcohol, caffeine, pot, etc.) safely and otherwise get on with their life as normal. These people would still be labelled as stoners, druggies, abusers, alcoholics, whatever negative connotation for the sole reason of the fact that they change the way their brain works from time to time.

My opinion is that while many mind altering drugs/substances have many negative effects and therefore should not be encouraged, there's nothing wrong with wanting to alter your conscious safely. Seems like a recreational activity not too much unlike whatever else we decide to do in our free time. It could even be argued that this is an even more deep or profound experience (and therefore valuable?).

I'd also say it seems to be part of human nature to want to alter the mind in some way or another. Alcohol and caffeine use is widespread. Almost every culture deals with alcohol, or the specific prohibition thereof. Clearly it's something we gravitate towards. Even some animals will specifically eat fermenting fruit to catch a buzz-on. That's pretty neat.

Thoughts and opinions?

It's your own consciousness. You can do whatever you want.

It's your own consciousness. You should be able to do whatever you want.

BluRayHiDef

I think if you have no responsibilities, you should be able to do what you want, so long as it doesn't affect other people.

If you're a parent or working, you shouldn't be taking anything.

It's your own consciousness. You can do whatever you want.

BluRayHiDef

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

It's your own consciousness. You can do whatever you want.

Agent-Zero

I think if you have no responsibilities, you should be able to do what you want, so long as it doesn't affect other people.

If you're a parent or working, you shouldn't be taking anything.

Enid_Green

I don't fully disagree with you but by working do you mean, specifically on the job or employed in general (meaning that it would be wrong to drink after work or whatever).

I think, in a vacuum, there is nothing inherently bad with getting high (you can call it altering conciousness, but lets call it what it is). Anyway, onto itself, I suppose it's not really good OR bad.

That being said, we typically don't live in a vacuum. You go and give the local dealer some cash for some crop? Well, you just literally aided (in all likelihood) a gang of criminals who I can almost guarantee you, are doing a LOT of things much worse than smoking some dope.

So, I suppose, if you growor manufacture your own junk, and your use will not cause you to fail to own up to your responsibilities (family, work, etc), then I suppose there is nothing wrong with it.

But, if you're giving money to the dealers, who give it to the smugglers, etc, you have to realize that your actions are NOT morally neutral.

It's bad as it's unproductive and is a method of escape, but no more so than watching TV, in most cases the aim is the same and the method you chose dosn't make it any different.markop2003

I think, in a vacuum, there is nothing inherently bad with getting high (you can call it altering conciousness, but lets call it what it is). Anyway, onto itself, I suppose it's not really good OR bad.

That being said, we typically don't live in a vacuum. You go and give the local dealer some cash for some crop? Well, you just literally aided (in all likelihood) a gang of criminals who I can almost guarantee you, are doing a LOT of things much worse than smoking some dope.

So, I suppose, if you growor manufacture your own junk, and your use will not cause you to fail to own up to your responsibilities (family, work, etc), then I suppose there is nothing wrong with it.

But, if you're giving money to the dealers, who give it to the smugglers, etc, you have to realize that your actions are NOT morally neutral.

YellowOneKinobi

I figured if I just said "high" we would probably be just talking about pot and other illegal drugs when I certainly want to include alcohol, and even caffeine.

And I agree with what you have to say and we indeed don't live in a vacuum. But I've heard a lot of people not make the point about the dangerous and illegal flow of money, rather the fact that high/intoxicated being are unproductive, wasting their time, being a low life, etc. for what seems to be no other reason other than the fact that they are indeed, high. Which is why I find this question intriguing.

I just believe it opens your mind to more possibilities, basically to think outside the box. If anything I believe it is a good thing... on occasion of course.

[QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"]

I think, in a vacuum, there is nothing inherently bad with getting high (you can call it altering conciousness, but lets call it what it is). Anyway, onto itself, I suppose it's not really good OR bad.

That being said, we typically don't live in a vacuum. You go and give the local dealer some cash for some crop? Well, you just literally aided (in all likelihood) a gang of criminals who I can almost guarantee you, are doing a LOT of things much worse than smoking some dope.

So, I suppose, if you growor manufacture your own junk, and your use will not cause you to fail to own up to your responsibilities (family, work, etc), then I suppose there is nothing wrong with it.

But, if you're giving money to the dealers, who give it to the smugglers, etc, you have to realize that your actions are NOT morally neutral.

_BlueDuck_

I figured if I just said "high" we would probably be just talking about pot and other illegal drugs when I certainly want to include alcohol, and even caffeine.

And I agree with what you have to say and we indeed don't live in a vacuum. But I've heard a lot of people not make the point about the dangerous and illegal flow of money, rather the fact that high/intoxicated being are unproductive, wasting their time, being a low life, etc. for what seems to be no other reason other than the fact that they are indeed, high. Which is why I find this question intriguing.

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

It's your own consciousness. You should be able to do whatever you want as long as it doesn't cause harm.

surrealnumber5

[QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"]

I think, in a vacuum, there is nothing inherently bad with getting high (you can call it altering conciousness, but lets call it what it is). Anyway, onto itself, I suppose it's not really good OR bad.

That being said, we typically don't live in a vacuum. You go and give the local dealer some cash for some crop? Well, you just literally aided (in all likelihood) a gang of criminals who I can almost guarantee you, are doing a LOT of things much worse than smoking some dope.

So, I suppose, if you growor manufacture your own junk, and your use will not cause you to fail to own up to your responsibilities (family, work, etc), then I suppose there is nothing wrong with it.

But, if you're giving money to the dealers, who give it to the smugglers, etc, you have to realize that your actions are NOT morally neutral.

_BlueDuck_

I figured if I just said "high" we would probably be just talking about pot and other illegal drugs when I certainly want to include alcohol, and even caffeine.

And I agree with what you have to say and we indeed don't live in a vacuum. But I've heard a lot of people not make the point about the dangerous and illegal flow of money, rather the fact that high/intoxicated being are unproductive, wasting their time, being a low life, etc. for what seems to be no other reason other than the fact that they are indeed, high. Which is why I find this question intriguing.

To that end, I'll use myself as an example. EVERY Thanksgiving, I have a routine. I wake up, take the dogs outside. Get the turkey in the oven, and have a nice big mug of coffee with some Baileys Irish Cream in it and watch the parade. I don't get sloshed. But I feel a bit of that warmth. So, if I'm understanding you're question the right way, is that "altering" inherently bad? I suppose it's not, but at the same time I have often wondered why I do it at all? Perhaps it has something to do with society's views, but I guess while I'm not ashamed of it, I'm certainly not proud of it.

As a side note, if a mug of Baileys leads to a few more, and the Turkey gets burned, and dinner is ruined, and everyone is disappointed.... well, you see where I'm going with it.

We can alter our consciousness without drugs/alcohol as well. Emotions can completely alter how we act and how we percieve the world, and even just making a concentrated effort can change our perception as well. So no, I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with it, but if it is abused, it is usually a strong indicator of other problems and can hurt the people around you.

We can alter our consciousness without drugs/alcohol as well. Emotions can completely alter how we act and how we percieve the world, and even just making a concentrated effort can change our perception as well. So no, I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with it, but if it is abused, it is usually a strong indicator of other problems and can hurt the people around you.

redstorm72

"If it's abused, it is usually a strong indicator of other problems....." Very well said and I'm disappointed I didn't even think of that aspect.

[QUOTE="_BlueDuck_"]

[QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"]

I think, in a vacuum, there is nothing inherently bad with getting high (you can call it altering conciousness, but lets call it what it is). Anyway, onto itself, I suppose it's not really good OR bad.

That being said, we typically don't live in a vacuum. You go and give the local dealer some cash for some crop? Well, you just literally aided (in all likelihood) a gang of criminals who I can almost guarantee you, are doing a LOT of things much worse than smoking some dope.

So, I suppose, if you growor manufacture your own junk, and your use will not cause you to fail to own up to your responsibilities (family, work, etc), then I suppose there is nothing wrong with it.

But, if you're giving money to the dealers, who give it to the smugglers, etc, you have to realize that your actions are NOT morally neutral.

YellowOneKinobi

I figured if I just said "high" we would probably be just talking about pot and other illegal drugs when I certainly want to include alcohol, and even caffeine.

And I agree with what you have to say and we indeed don't live in a vacuum. But I've heard a lot of people not make the point about the dangerous and illegal flow of money, rather the fact that high/intoxicated being are unproductive, wasting their time, being a low life, etc. for what seems to be no other reason other than the fact that they are indeed, high. Which is why I find this question intriguing.

To that end, I'll use myself as an example. EVERY Thanksgiving, I have a routine. I wake up, take the dogs outside. Get the turkey in the oven, and have a nice big mug of coffee with some Baileys Irish Cream in it and watch the parade. I don't get sloshed. But I feel a bit of that warmth. So, if I'm understanding you're question the right way, is that "altering" inherently bad? I suppose it's not, but at the same time I have often wondered why I do it at all? Perhaps it has something to do with society's views, but I guess while I'm not ashamed of it, I'm certainly not proud of it.

As a side note, if a mug of Baileys leads to a few more, and the Turkey gets burned, and dinner is ruined, and everyone is disappointed.... well, you see where I'm going with it.

Right. And I certainly think personal responsibility is the key here. And your example is kind of what I'm getting at. If you enjoy the feeling the Bailey's gives you (however subtle it is), and you're doing it with no harm to others (assuming your turkey doesn't burn), then I don't see why anyone should frown upon it. I would sometimes go to the pub after work on fridays to celebrate the coming of the weekend. Not get drunk, but a fun social outing and a good way to relax.

And even going beyond alcohol, which is decently accepted in society, if someone wants to watch a movie before going to bed, what's the harm in that person getting high, and enjoying the movie and food a bit more? Seems like a fairly reasonable proposal to me.

I think it's totally stupid, why would you want to impair yourself? So bad, lets just say not much good has come from drunkenness.

I see nothing inherently wrong from a moral standpoint. It isn't logically any different than what we do with a host of other activities that are legal. Ultimately, much of what mankind does in general is an attempt to either consciously or unconsciously alter their mindset from a mental and emotional standpoint. Have a bad day at the office? Cheer yourself up by playing Darksiders. Feeling tired in a given morning? Red Bull will fix that right up. Feeling high strung and anxious? Maybe it's about the right moment to pin the wifey down on the bed and plant the pork sausage. Not altogether that different than deciding it's a good time to get drunk on a Friday evening.nocoolnamejim

This is absolutely ridiculous.

Who would want to play Darksiders to cheer themselves up?

My opinion is this. You can alter your consciousness all you want, but you will be responsible for your actions in such a state.

It depends on the person and the situation.

I think it's totally stupid, why would you want to impair yourself? So bad, lets just say not much good has come from drunkenness.

BATTOSAI76

I don't agree with it personally but I have no objection to others doing it if they choose. One reason I don't drink is because I can't stand the thought of who I am (my consciousness, as you put it) being altered and me not having full control over it. It makes no sense to me why people would want to go to that extent - I can understand drinking to certain degree to loosen up and relax more, I just don't understand those who go all out. However, though it makes no sense to me, I wouldn't go far enough to call it inherently wrong. Plenty of wrong things can happen as a result of getting drunk, but I wouldn't call the action of getting drunk immoral.EJ902

I get the sense we always are under control of our conscious, no matter how **** faced we are

nothing wrong with opening up the mind and seeing the world diffrently

I don't think so. Then again, I'm biased. I love me some booze and the memories that I don't remember because of it. -Sun_Tzu-

[QUOTE="BATTOSAI76"]

I think it's totally stupid, why would you want to impair yourself? So bad, lets just say not much good has come from drunkenness.

JPOBS

Sorry dude but imo "fun" is a pretty lame reason to get drunk.

[QUOTE="JPOBS"][QUOTE="BATTOSAI76"]

I think it's totally stupid, why would you want to impair yourself? So bad, lets just say not much good has come from drunkenness.

BATTOSAI76

Sorry dude but imo "fun" is a pretty lame reason to get drunk.

[QUOTE="JPOBS"][QUOTE="BATTOSAI76"]

I think it's totally stupid, why would you want to impair yourself? So bad, lets just say not much good has come from drunkenness.

BATTOSAI76

Sorry dude but imo "fun" is a pretty lame reason to get drunk.

Why not? People do things all the time simply because they are fun. Fun is kind of the whole point of leisure

the truth of the matter is that alcohol relieves your inhibitions. If anything, you're more yourself than ever when under the influence. The sober you is a mask created by the expectations of society. The drunk you will act exactly how you truely feel. People who still have character when extremely drunk are of notable mention imoJPOBS

No its not wrong to alter your consciousness, in fact Id recomend it for most people to try at least once, heres the catch, If by doing so you are putting yourself in danger than yes, putting others in danger ..yes, neglecting duties, responsabilities yes... So as long as you do whatever you want to do in a safe and responsable way then no it shouldnt be wrong.

[QUOTE="JPOBS"]the truth of the matter is that alcohol relieves your inhibitions. If anything, you're more yourself than ever when under the influence. The sober you is a mask created by the expectations of society. The drunk you will act exactly how you truely feel. People who still have character when extremely drunk are of notable mention imoMetalGear_Ninty

That's deep, man.

I don't think so, so long as it's done in a responsible way that doesn't harm anyone. If anything it'probably good for people to open up their minds once in a while and look at old problems and ideas with a new angle

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"][QUOTE="JPOBS"]the truth of the matter is that alcohol relieves your inhibitions. If anything, you're more yourself than ever when under the influence. The sober you is a mask created by the expectations of society. The drunk you will act exactly how you truely feel. People who still have character when extremely drunk are of notable mention imoTHE_DRUGGIE

That's deep, man.

It's only bad if you do it to a large extent everyday. Too much too often can make you lose touch with reality which is obviously not good. I think it also says how someone feels about there life when they try to escape so often.

There's nothing wrong with it. It's my consciousness and if it doesn't affect anybody else (which in most cases it won't), then what's the problem?

Recreational drug useage is far more deeply inbedded in society and culture than people care to believe or acknowledge. It's not just escapism, it's a form of entertainment as well. Hell, for many native cultures it's still a form of religious enlightenment since drugs can alter perception and ideas to great extents. The only time there's a problem with it is when the drug itself is directly harmful to other people too, which is a pretty rare case when it comes to drugs. Many "harder" drugs like mushrooms, mescaline (natural drug; legal on several Southwest reservations), LSD, DMT (natural), Ecstasy, etc. are not directly harmful to the individual or others. Real hard drugs like methamphetamine are the only serious issue.

I don't see anything wrong with it.